Army/Navy & Podiatry 100% tuition covered programs

[twinkle toes]

I knew there was a program for MD/DO programs and the army, but I didn't know there were ones for podiatry as well. Does anyone know anyone in these programs or anyone considering it?

For those that are unfamiliar, here is the link:
http://www.navy.com/careers/healthcare/medicalservicecorps/clinicalcareproviders/podiatry/

Basically, 100% tuition covered, and a monthly ~$2,000 stipend (I guess physicians and dentists get a $20,000 sign on bonus?). Then you serve a minimum of 3 years after residency...

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[215353]

It sounds like an amazing deal but you need to research all the stipulations when it comes to these programs. I once considered this option too but here is what I have come up from my findings:

- For starters you give back ONE YEAR for EVERY year you take the scholarship
- If you take the scholarship for only two years you still have to serve a minimum of three years after residency
- Therefore it makes more sense to take the scholarship for every year of your education = 4 years you give back after your 3 year residency.

- You do what they tell you to do.

- You get your residency training at their affiliated hospitals.
- You practice Podiatry at specific locations that they have for their physicians (sometimes you DON'T get your first choice)

- Once it's all over you are still starting a practice or trying to join a practice from SCRATCH
- It takes YEARS to BUILD a practice

Here is a great article written by a person who was in allopathic medical school and accepted the HPSP scholarship from Air Force...this is his HPSP story:

http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html


It's not worth it unless you REALLY want to be in the military!

 

[allenmarchallo]

As a HM2/E-5 (Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class) in the Navy I can tell you that you may want to think twice before joining the military.......Think CAREFULLY before you make a decision.......

After you complete your 3 year PM&S residency, you will be pretty up to snuff on the latest surgical treatments, etc, etc-----however, you will probably be letting your skills atrophy since 90+% will be 18-50 yr old (generally healthy) patients who typically DON'T fall down ladders shattering ankles or need complex surgical cases....Perhaps, you may see something cool maybe 2-3 times a month IF THAT.....Most of the Navy hospitals/clinics you will be stationed at generally don't see many retiree's (who have the coolest cases) anymore like they used to....Retiree's generally go to the VA and/or consulted to CIV. pod's through Tricare. (insurance)...You'd have to be at a major Navy hospital (Jax, San Diego, Bethesda, or Portsmouth) to see more of a more diverse caseload of A.D, dependents, & retirees... Navy Clinics= usually see only A.D--but a FEW see reservists & dependents on a case by case scenario, but are generally referred out..

What will u be doing as a Navy pod??-----Well, people will usually FLOCK to podiatry 2 times a year to get PRT (physical readiness test) waivers in order to get out of the 1.5 mile run. They do this b/c if they get waived, they can use the bike/elliptical (which are easier)..So, yeah, you will see plenty of sprained ankles & something "wrong" during the March/September PRT cycles..

I am not by any means saying that you wont be performing surgery from time to time------but you will NOT be doing so like your civilian counterparts..I don't think a military pod. will transition very well to the future civilian market..(that is, if you plan on retiring..but u could if u only spent a few years in)...Navy podiatry just isn't "there" yet......You will stay busy with routine care & admin though.

Of course if you don't believe me you can ask the ~20 or so Active Duty Navy pods. out there.

 

[twinkle toes]

Thanks for your input! I was curious to see what people's opinions were. Brought up some valid points. It's definitely not something I would jump into, it's an enormous commitment, I'm just looking at some options.

 

[allenmarchallo]

Thanks for your input! I was curious to see what people's opinions were. Brought up some valid points. It's definitely not something I would jump into, it's an enormous commitment, I'm just looking at some options.

Well, it is a good deal if you weren't really interested in surgery or if u want to focus more on wound/routine care...
Have you thought about getting a job at the VA Hospital (Veteran's Affairs)?
Pods there have a pretty CUSHY job, diverse cases, and VA jobs in general people usually try and hang on too.

But in regards of the HPSP/HSCP, pods kinda get shafted...Dentists/Physicians can get the full 48 months to use during school, but pods on the other hand "up to 36 months." DDS/MD/DO also can get a freakin sign-on bonus,-------pods. don't.

But I guess, it's SOMETHING better than nothing...The Navy even offer the HPSP/HSCP is a small step forward, but I still don't see the long-term benefit.
They won't be offering sign-on bonuses anytime soon, b/c unfortunately podiatry isn't a hot-issue right now, and as long as the Navy has pods. willing to join for free----why pay them a bonus???

 

[Creflo]

It was mentioned that you will do a military residency. This is the exception, not the norm. You would most likely do a civilian residency. And you most likely would be stationed at a major naval hospital.

Take a look at averages starting salaries for podiatrists (150k is not the norm, it is the exception from what many pods have told me). Then take away all the taxes from this (not just income, but payroll taxes like FICA and Medicare, etc.). OK, then take what's left over and take out your student loan payment.

If you do the Navy HPSP you get 3 years of tuition, insurance, books, and 24k per year to live on. You get out of school with 3/4 less debt. Then you go to Navy hospital for 3 years, and you make about 60k total per year. Many of your classmates are getting below 100k during their first year or so out (from what I'm told). But they are taxed on their full paycheck (with applicable deductions), then they have a couple of hundred grand in debt plus interest to pay off with mostly after tax dollars. In the Navy you aren't taxed on your full pay, a lot of it is exempted from taxes. Plus you don't have as much debt hanging over your head. I calculate (considering taxes, loan interest, etc.) that you would come out ahead during those first three years out of residency unless you can get a job that pays about 150k for each of those first three years.

IMO it's an excellent deal financially, but yes, you are joining the military, and you should do it for the right reasons as stated above. Do your homework before joining. Feel free to PM me any questions. Finally I'd say yes podiatrists can earn well, but you often see salary numbers out there, without a lot of mention of how much debt there is to pay off and how much is deducted from taxes.

 

[dtrack22]

Many of your classmates are getting below 100k during their first year or so out (from what I'm told).

I understand the financial benefits purely from a standpoint of student loan debt, or lack thereof. But if you have served as a Navy podiatrist for three years, what makes you any more valuable than the pods mentioned above? What I mean is, won't you be receiving the same sub-100k salary after leaving the Navy and joining the civilian sector? Yes, you have experience but you don't have a patient base that would make you more attractive to a practicing pod looking to hire a new associate. So while you don't have as much debt, your classmates may already have begun the process of buying into an existing practice or starting their own. And isn't that where the real financial benefits of the profession lay? Guys like PADPM, Natch, etc (our resident practice owning pods) could shed some light on this particular topic...I'm curious to hear if the 3 year jump start outweighs the financial burden of student loan debt.

 

[surfdr]

I am considering this option and wanted to get some info from people who have done or are currently doing this. Thanks.

 

[Paulywog]

A recruiter for this program came to our school and told us everything about the program. IMO, it is not a better financial decision. He showed us his big tent he slept in while deployed in Iraq. No AC and a ton of bunk beds, no privacy. He was there for a while and lived in miserable conditions. He did say he loved the experience and learned a lot. He went a few years into a civilian job and he said he made a ton of money, but then went back. He said the military felt like a family and missed it. I dont think it is a better financial decision, you dont pick where you live, and you are not your own boss. These are some of the main reasons why I chose Podiatry. If you don't like dealing with insurance companies and the business part of podiatry it might be your thing. When you look at all of the details involved in this program, it is not that amazing (For me).

 

[Torovador]

...

 

[dyk343]

If residency shortages hit even harder in the years to come... could this be a good option? I would assume a 100% residency placement for all military personnel.

thoughts?

 

[Torovador]

...

 

[dyk343]

According to Barry University's stats, residency placement has been 100% the past two years, and 99.something% this year. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. But if indeed, there's a bigger shortage in the next four years to come, my prerogative would be to study even harder. Heck, I'm shooting for valedictorian. The point is, if you're on top of your class, I don't see why you shouldn't get your top choice, or at least get matched the first year-out.

So, in other words, since I've only heard of one specific podiatric residency (which is not Naval, but Army-based), I wouldn't consider it now the No. 1 reason to get the HPSP. Good thinking, though.

Yeah... I was just trying to stir up a conversation about it. Im not at all interested in the navy... Just thought it would be interesting to hear others opinions on the matter if the residency shortage does take a huge dive in the years to come.

 

[215353]

Torovador,

It seems like you are blinded by the $$$ signs. Is the HPSP scholarship an attractive offer? Yes it certainly is. But are you willing to sacrifice your future career because of it? If surgery is not your cup of tea then I think this scholarship will work out great for you. But if you are one of the many who wants to become proficient in the full range of foot and ankle surgeries and utilize them in your practice (when the time calls for it) then I don't think this option would be for you.

Just like allenmarchallo stated, you will probably lose those surgical skills during the 4 year committment you have to give back working in military hospitals and providing routine care. I highly doubt you will be the first option if someone does have a significant and traumatic injury to the foot, ankle or both...since there will be ortho HPSP physicians working right along side you.

Also plan on being paid a salary that is significantly lower then the national average for your civilian counterparts. The armed forces have already invested a lot of time and money into your education and training...don't plan on them paying you the same amount as someone who hasn't used their resources. They got you on lock down for the next 4 years.

 

[GibsonMan]

Hey everyone! I looked into the Navy program. I spoke with a recruiter about October of last year. Here is part of an email he sent me and a flyer with info for pods I know some of this is redundant. This is just FYI I'm not an expert. I decided not to apply.... military life is not for me although you do save alot of $$$$$.

Flyer:

100% Paid Health Professions Scholarship​

US NAVY​

START YOUR PODIATRY CAREER DEBT FREE​

.FULLY PAID PODIATRY EDUCATION ..PLUS.. A MONTHLY STIPEND.​

Ø Full Tuition at Public or Private School of your choice
Ø Reimbursement for required books and equipment
Ø Reimbursement of schools required fees (except housing and meals)
Ø Monthly Stipend of at least $1992.00
Ø Other financial aid options also exist, make sure you ask



.Graduate Podiatry Education.
ü 2-3 year Postgraduate Residency Training Program opportunities available





.Basic Qualifications:.

ü .US Citizen (birth or naturalized).
ü .Accepted to an APMA accredited program.
ü .Meet physical qualifications of a Commissioned Officer.



.Obligation of Scholarship Students..:.

ü .Attend Officer Development School (ODS) in the summer of the first year..
ü .After ODS you will be able to serve 45 days of active service in a Navy clerkship during your second to fourth year of the program,.
ü .Serve one year of active duty for each year of scholarship participation (Internship/Residency does not count toward active duty obligation).


Email:
"Dear *******

The scholarship is only for 3 years for Podiatry students so if you are in you Freshman year you should apply after the Holidays. You could start working on the application during the break.

The number of scholarships comes down from Big Navy each year around mid-OCT this is based on job vacancy and need. I know last year they took approximately 20 students Nation wide for the program. It is very competitive but worth it.

The other benefits include; the fact that you will have a military ID and access to the military health care systems, commissaries and exchanges etc. You will also be gaining longevity time in rank as you are in school.

The details of the scholarship include; full tuition and all expenses for books, equipment, medical lab coats, insurance is covered by the Navy as long as it is a requirement from the school that you need to have it, etc. All you have to do is save your receipts and the once you have been accepted into the program you will submit the forms and get reimbursed. There is a 3 commitment with the 3 year scholarship.

Hope this helps.
*** ******* "



Also, he said if you don't have a 25 MCAT and 3.0+ gpa you probably won't get it. Again, this was last year and things may have changed since then.

 

[TUpod2013]

The Navy recruiters came by Temple as well this past year to put the word out about their program. They told us they currently have 15 pods on active duty, and are looking to take 4 more next year. I researched this offer and seriously considered it for a while. The math comes down to $54k a year (using 2010 pay table, taxable) and other non-taxable benefits of about $30k. So you have about $80-90k a year salary (depends on where you live and how many are in your family). You will have about $40k in debt from your first year to pay off.

When I was out in TX over the holidays I stopped in the Navy and Army recruiter offices out there to see if I get the same numbers. Navy basically said the same thing as the PA ones. Army said they are not looking for Pods currently, but when they do they get ones that are out of residency or just finishing. I have not talked to another Army recruiter to verify that though. Also make sure you talk to officer recruiters! Not every recruiter can recruit officers (especially medical).

As far as not seeing surgeries, I do not know how much that is true. I spoke with a few of our guest speakers about how they felt about Navy pods in the civ sectors after their term was up. Several of them said they do great work and some of them said they knew Navy pods that were some of the best surgeons they know. All of this is subjective, but I wanted a good idea of multiple pods that had been in the field practicing for 8+ years.

I ended up not doing the Navy program, but I know of 3 people in my class that have already sent in their applications for next year. Also don't worry about a residency shortage for you guys. It's too early to tell even for my class. They are transitioning the 2 year residencies out and pushing 3 year residencies from now on. The APMA is also working on adding more residencies over the next year or 2 and even made it a lot easier, and faster, to start a pod residency.

Sorry about the long post, but the Navy deal is a BIG decision. Research all you can and talk to MULTIPLE recruiters (they are salesman and some will say anything to get you to sign).

 

[Torovador]

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[215353]

Dude, with all due respect: You don't know me. You read one post I make over my decision to apply to the HPSP program and think you're fit to judge me. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if you made these judgements for yourself, But if you're going to sTroll around passing judgement over what an actual career in Podiatry is all about with a "pre-podiatry" label, then I sugest you keep your judgement of others to yourself unless you don't want to sound like a fool.

First of all, money is not all that matters to me, why do you think I'm choosing to apply for a career in the military? This is not a video gaming forum for 12 year olds. Most of us here are very apt individuals and know exactly what we want to do with our lives (and are very muchly active in doing thus). Here's how little you know me: you mentioned I want a career in surgery alone. Haven't you been listening to all the other actual pods here like PadPM? Have you even talked to or shadowed other DPMs? Surgery is not all there is in podiatry, and it certainly will not make you rich. And where do you get-off stating this profound knowledge of yours about Naval Podiatric Surgery? Oh, yes. I forgot, over one post you read in this forum. How grand of you...

Nice over-reaction. I was only offering advice since this a forum where students can come and share their thoughts from prior experiences. I don't think at any point in my post did I intend to claim i know you or know what you want to accomplish in this field. In terms of having knowledge of the HPSP scholarship I've actually spoken with recruiters from the Navy, Army and Air Force when they came a spoke to my class in grad school promoting the scholarship for medical students. In each case each branch brought the pitchman, current practicing physicians who did the HPSP scholarship and current students who were doing the HPSP program. I got a lot of good information from these info sessions and reached out to them on multiple occassions to gather more information. Also, if you read my post carefully I was quoting Allenmarchallo (who has served in the armed forces by the way) because he is prob the best resource for this debate then anyone else in the forum.

I was only offering my thoughts and interpretations on this matter. I won't bother responding to your posts anymore.

 

[Torovador]

...

 

[215353]

ok

 

[dyk343]

Im not here to get in on the argument, but be careful with the military.

One of my best friends joined the air force and the recruiting officer promised him anything and everything he could to get him to sign on. He was going for special forces (sear?)... Well, in the end it wasnt anything the recruiter promised. This may be different in this certain case since it medical related and you would have a certain skill they paid for. But read between the lines before signing that paper.

 

[Torovador]

...

 

[chunkylover]

Currently a student on my externships. There are definitely benefits in going the navy route aside from financial reasons.. And this is after spending time with 4 Podiatrists at a Naval hospital and 3 of them have been doing this for over 15 years and dont see themselves leaving anytime soon.

-Patient population: Dont have co-morbidities like we see in the VA hospitals. So expect your patients to actually heal and get back to full activity. You see all kinds of sports injuries. I've even encountered patients fresh from Afghanistan after a roadside blast. So, surgical cases are not lacking. All the podiatrists are ABPS certified and got all their cases pretty quickly.

-You do what you were trained to do not having to worry about billing/reimburstment. You have the latest technologies at your disposal. And your spouse/children will have the BEST/OPTIMAL medical care in the world.

-Didn't see a nail care patient once (some people don't like doing that)

-I just learned, you are allowed to moonlight with certain restrictions. In case you are worried about not having a patient base in the civilian world if you decide to leave the military.

-To get promoted, you have to move every 3 or 4 years (basically go where your country needs you). Some people like doing that. But you can also stay where you are and never advance and be comfortable...and that's totally fine.


Obvious disadvantages:
-You follow orders, not lucrative, difficult on family life etc etc

Ultimately, it's not for me cuz I have a family to think about. The most important thing is to do what's best for YOU and YOUR FAMILY.