Army Psychology, HSPS, and non-psych majors

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FA_45ACP

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Hi everyone, this is my first post so I will try to make it a good one!

Short version:
Can I get HSPS while attending an Alliant Psy D program? Do I need to boost up my GPA even though I'm already a grad student? Hopefully someone who has applied or has been awarded HSPS for a PsyD program can chime in.

Long Version:
I have found a lot of great information here about becoming an Army psychologist. Most of my big questions were answered, but I still have a few points I would like to be addressed if anyone can help me.

A little background:
I am an enlisted E-5 in the Army Reserve. My MOS is 68W healthcare specialist (commonly known as "medic"). I graduated with a bachelors in history in 2013, and now I am finishing my 1st year of a master's history program. I love learning, but I am considering leaving the program due to a lack of funding. I don't think I can justify taking out another $20,000 in student loans to obtain what is basically a luxury item. I already have a bachelor's degree which would allow me to apply to OCS. The Army officer corps is my preferred career path, so getting a degree that won't advance my career as an officer in any way seems like a poor use of time and money.

I knew I wanted to become an officer since I was young. My father was an officer during the 70s, and I wanted to continue the family tradition. After I enlisted, a captain, whom I consider a mentor, encouraged me to pursue a career as an army physician. I knew for many years that the army pays for your tuition and that you are commissioned as a 2nd LT while you are in school. While I am not really interested in becoming a physician, I have recently learned that the same scholarship can be applied to those who wish to become psychologists. This is otherwise known as the HSPS and covers 2 years of tuition.

My interest piqued, I began researching the careers of army psychology online and it seems to be something I would like to pursue. But I need more information before I take any further steps. My primary questions are:

  • Should I be concerned about the reputation of schools such as Alliant? I have read in other threads that the quality is not that great, especially compared to state schools. However, I know from experience that the Army has a pretty straightforward way of doing things -- when I spoke to an ROTC commander about selecting a branch, he said, "The Army doesn't care whether you get a degree in art or mechanical engineering. They will teach you everything you need to know about your job. All they care about is GPA, PT score, and your LDAC score. How well you do in that will determine what branch you can choose. Art majors who get a 4.0 and a 300 PT score will have a better rating on the order of merit list than an engineering major who is struggling with a 3.01 GPA." I thought that was stupid, and not fair, but apparently that is the reality. In the same vein, does it really matter if I go to a UC or Alliant as long as it is APA-approved?

  • My undergraduate career is, shall I say, less than stellar. The first few years I slogged through chemistry and calculus classes that I had no talent for and averaged a 2.0. I went through a period of turmoil and thankfully have moved on. My transcripts show an upward trend, most dramatically once I switched my major to history. My major GPA ended up being 3.4+. This is why I am looking at Alliant as a possible candidate -- their GPA requirements are not as stringent as say, Pepperdine. While I am not Pepperdine material, I have demonstrated certain qualities to be accepted to a graduate program -- even if it is history. I was able to prove that I have what it takes to excel at graduate-level research and coursework. So will the army reach back to my early undergraduate years and question my GPA and academic performance, even if I get accepted to a PsyD graduate program and do well my first year?

  • What are your thoughts about pursuing this path given my circumstances? Some other things to consider: I am married, but I don't have kids; I already have $65,000 in student debt; and I am 29 years old.
Thanks if you made it all the way through my whole post! I appreciate you taking the time to read and perhaps comment about my concerns.

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*I'm anxiously awaiting word from the Navy regarding their scholarship, but I may have some insights for you.

If you are worried about debt, this may not be a good option. You have to be enrolled in an APA program at the time of application to even be considered.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have to wait until your second year to apply for the army hpsp, so you'll have a couple years of tuition/fees before you even apply. Even then, the scholarships are fairly competitive so you are by no means guaranteed a spot. So best case scenario you get the award and you're on the hook for two years of school. Worst case you are on the same hook with no support for the next 2-4 years or however long you take.
 
The Army Reserve offers 250,000 loan repayment for psychologists, the guard offers 75,000 loan and 75,000 bonus and active duty offers 120,000 loan repayment and a nice steady paycheck. That's why I'm not really sweating the scholarship program, I make more money not doing it and getting the loan repayment.
 
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Wow, that's quite amazing! Do you have sources? I can't seem to find anything on the goarmy.com website..

Edit: Eh, nevermind. It was at the very bottom of that webpage. I wonder how easy it is to get that on your contract?
 
The guard and active say it all over websites, the reserve doesn't even pretend to maintain websites and you have to call them. It's a super pain to get to a general recruiter so just pick whatever city and call an actual reserve amedd recruiter and say you're a third year doc student. Otherwise they won't give you the time of day.

But if you think all an Alliant PsyD will cost you is 20,000, or even 20k a year, I would seriously examine your financial awareness about these programs. I would also examine your motivations if you consider the doctorate a luxury item en route to you becoming an officer. Psychologists are not the same type of officer as a field officer, they are practicing professionals who don't command troops and work in a totally different domain. 5 years is a long time for what you don't consider necessary for your fulfillment.

Edit: not hard at all if you are a licensed psychologist and will direct commission as a captain. But unless you want to do a postdoc you can do like I am and choose to license in Maryland or a state without any real postdoc req.
 
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I believe you've misinterpreted my post. I am doubting the validity of taking out 20k for a master's degree in history that I will never use. That is why I refer to it as a luxury item. I am well aware that PsyD programs cost much more, and that PsyD's do not command troops. In fact, I know a lot about the military, and what officers do and do not do, having been a reservist for 11 years. Nevertheless, thank you for the information about the loan repayment program, I thought that was only for us enlisted ;)
 
A lot to say here. First, you can get HPSP and go to Alliant, and it has probably been done. That sad, there are many more things to consider.

Above all, go for the highest quality training possible. This will make you more competitive for the HPSP scholarship, which is highly competitive, but will also make you more effective as a clinician, which is what counts. To get into a good training program, you will need psychology coursework and research experience, in addition to some clinical exposure. As far as what the ROTC commander said, the Army will not exactly train you to be a psychologist from start to finish. You are responsible for four years of training in school and the related core competencies. They will then add to that during internship and post-doctoral training, when you go on active duty. Training in psychology should not be checking a box, and If you are not presently qualified to get into the schools that offer the best training, I'd suggest you build your CV and demonstrate you have what it takes next year. In your situation this might mean pursuing master's work in psychology to boost your GPA, complete pre-reqs and get involved in a research lab. That said, get the credits as cheaply as you can, and consider just taking a few stats and research methods courses rather than completing the degree. Experience in a paid research coordinator job will make you as competitive as a master's degree most of the time, provided you have taken the required courses.

When evaluating individual programs, look for high match rates to APA accredited internships (above 80-85%) and small cohorts, among other indicators you can read about on this board and learn about with the help of a faculty advisor. Don't fall into the trap of using Ph.D. vs. Psy.D. as an indicator of how easy it is to get into a program, or the quality of training, both big oversimplifications. Alliant campuses have abysmal numbers (https://appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2011-14_by_Univ.pdf). Some great clinicians have certainly come from Alliant, but expect your experience will be the average not the exception. You should not take selection for the HPSP program for granted when doing financial planning, and I would highly recommend having a viable career path in the event you are not selected for HPSP and do not get picked up for a spot in the military. Psy.D. programs can be extremely expensive (some aren't), and most Ph.D. programs offer substantial funding. Alliant has Ph.D. and Psy.D. programs that both cost a fortune. The Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences is something to look into, since you can attend on active duty. There's discussion about Ph.D. vs. Psy.D. on this board for days, but I'd advise you to look at practice-oriented or "balanced" Ph.D. programs with good outcome data, and Psy.D. programs with strong outcome data that are housed in non-profit universities.

It seems like you've got into psychology fairly recently. I would recommend speaking with an Army psychologist, and reading the book on Military Psychology by Kennedy and Zillmer.

Regarding your last question - No harm in giving it a shot and seeing how long psychology can hold your interest. There is a shorter route into Army Social Work: http://www.uncfsu.edu/sw/academic-programs/army-fsu-msw-program
 
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Wow, thank you. I think that just about cleared everything up. Your recommendations for improving the CV, pursuing master's work in psychology, and obtaining research positions are especially helpful. Thank you for your response!
 
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There seems to be some confusion about the ROTC anecdote. I used that as an example to highlight the fact that advancing one's career in the Army often times really is all about just "checking the box" with total disregard to qualitative value. I know -- that's awful. But, that's the reality. Your tax dollars at work.

But I digress, the only point I was trying to make was this: A bachelor's degree from Chico State will gain you a commission just the same as graduating from West Point. A computer engineering degree vs a philosophy degree will have no bearing on what branch you get into, only GPA matters.* SO, with that in mind, my question was simply, "Are Alliant graduates looked at differently than someone who graduated from a state university?" That said, it appears my question has been answered.

*I know that physicians, psychologist, lawyers, and other medical or health specialist schooling is a different animal compared to your traditional branches (infantry, armor, transportation, etc.) But I can certainly see how that comparison can be misconstrued or conflated now that I re-read it.

Truth be told, I would rather put the work in and go to a higher quality program anyway. "Student til 30" gave some good guidelines on how I can build myself up to get accepted to a higher quality program, which was my main concern. I thought it couldn't be done.
 
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I'm actually a 68x in the guard :) usuhs for the army requires that you are already a medical officer but it does seem like a really good option if you were to take the officer route first and psychologist second

That doesn't seem to be true:

https://www.usuhs.edu/mps/army-applicants

I could be wrong, I just want to make sure everyone gets the right information.
 
My apologies they added the "all others will be considered" in the 5 years since I was first inquiring there
 
I second the notion of looking into the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences. I just came off six years of active duty service, and it is something I seriously considered - the benefits and training are unparalleled for those wishing to practice military medicine. In the end, I decided I really no longer wanted to remain on active duty or practice in that environment, but it's a great opportunity for those who do.
 
It's a valid point all accredited schools are going to lead to the same commission and training after the bachelors. Going off the analogy to becoming a second lieutenant, if you knew you would be given a platoon and deployed in four years, and assuming you could pick any school, do you go to West Point or study basket weaving at an online school? Which lieutenant would you like to lead your platoon, all things being equal?
 
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It's a valid point all accredited schools are going to lead to the same commission and training after the bachelors. Going off the analogy to becoming a second lieutenant, if you knew you would be given a platoon and deployed in four years, and assuming you could pick any school, do you go to West Point or study basket weaving at an online school? Which lieutenant would you like to lead your platoon, all things being equal?

When I was working with an AF recruiter for the HPSP scholarship (Ive been told by her that the program since shut down), recruiter specifically told me that schools and their reputation/quality of program does matter when being considered for the HPSP. So if you are choosing a specific school, say Alliant, contact them and ask them if they have had any applicants or students awarded the HPSP scholarship. If so, get that person's contact info, and get the run down from the HPSP student directly. Go with a school which has a great reputation for superb training, irrelevant if its Phd or PsyD. Just be sure it is a mix of research & practice (scholar-practitioner) model. There is a great resources/books on the subject (you can find it discussed in other threads, ie "Insiders guide to counseling and clinical psych programs) that weighs in the schools based on how heavy they lean towards either end of the research-practitioner spectrum.
 
*I'm anxiously awaiting word from the Navy regarding their scholarship, but I may have some insights for you.

If you are worried about debt, this may not be a good option. You have to be enrolled in an APA program at the time of application to even be considered.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have to wait until your second year to apply for the army hpsp, so you'll have a couple years of tuition/fees before you even apply. Even then, the scholarships are fairly competitive so you are by no means guaranteed a spot. So best case scenario you get the award and you're on the hook for two years of school. Worst case you are on the same hook with no support for the next 2-4 years or however long you take.
Any luck w the navy @drbulldog
 
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