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Ask an Army Dentist

Discussion in 'Military Dentistry' started by BQuad, Aug 20, 2007.

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  1. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    it's hard to really know how the residencies compare to each other because the directors change so often. i would recommend contacting the director of that residency and sending an e-mail to some of the current residents there. i'm sure they would also allow you to stop by and visit the program and talk with the current residents and director if you wanted to. i went and visited ft campbell during my fourth year of school.
  2. SoonerFan

    SoonerFan

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    Everyone,

    This is an excellent forum. I am really excited to see this type of dialogue. I went to dental school from 2000-2004 and there was nothing like this out there to help guide the way. Thanks BQuad!!

    Anyway, I wanted to post in order to add my perspective on some of the conversations. I fiqure it can not hurt to have multiple Army dental sources. BQuad originally gave his background therefore I will as well.

    2004- Graduate Dental School
    2004-2006- 2 Year Comprehensive Dental Residency
    2006-present- Comprehensive Dentist in a clinic working directly with Rangers and Airborne instructors.

    It appears that the number one question is over deployment. My story is different than BQuad, I have not been deployed. Actually, the odds are that you will not be deployed. We have only had less than 1/3 of the dentist deploy (actual % may change, but the most recent number was around only 22% have deployed)

    The Army is a wonderful place to begin your Professional career due to the excellent educational opportunities. As a result of the residency I did right out of dental school I am able to practice as I wish. Yes, I really am!! However, there are many of us in the Army Dental Corps and everyone has a different stroy. Point is, I am not trying to say BQuad is saying anything other than his story, but for me my life has been very rewarding thus far within the Army Dental Corps.

    Last note, I am going to Airborne shcool in about 1 month. So, it is possible to go but it depends on your particular duty station.



    SoonerFan

    P.S. I am not able to spellcheck!! So, forgive me if I missed something!!
  3. BQuad

    BQuad

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    Good to have another active duty dentist on the forum, thanks for giving your input. As a 2 year graduate you can offer a good view of general dentistry for those who want to follow the career path and still be a general dentist.

    One comment though the numbers you are quoting for deployments are the Dental Command numbers which do NOT include dentists assigned to field units nor those currently deployed in PROFIS positions. The real numbers would come from the Dental Corps as a whole but no one has published those. They are only counting those who are currently at clinics, which includes all the non-deployable individuals like residents, OIC's, commanders, etc. So the numbers are skewed so it appears fewer people get deployed than actually do.
  4. BQuad

    BQuad

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    When I went to the AEGD at Lewis I would have to say it was weak in comparison to what I have heard about other programs. We had a very poor pros mentor, our pedo mentor moved to Germany a few months in and wasn't replaced, ortho was alright but we weren;t allowed to start any cases, did mostly treatment planning and evaluation, we only had 2 weeks in the OS department, the rest of OS was done with the supervision of general dentists mostly with only local anesthetic. Perio was the best and Endo was second but we didn't get to use things like obtura or thermafill.

    Perhaps the program has improved since I left though, that was nearly 4 years ago now, and we did have the credential review the year I was there. I'm not sure if the director has changed since I left. I still learned a lot from the program and thought it was a pretty good program the when I was there. I had a good time, just didn't get the amount of experience I have seen others post about. The mentors and directors were all nice and it was a pleasant year.

    I agree the best thing to do is see if you can get in touch with the program director and some current residents and ask what they have been doing.
  5. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    just a quick note for those asking about deployments.

    it has now become official - i received a memo from my commander yesterday. PROFIS (Dentac) dentists will now only deploy for 180 days (6 months). this, however, does not apply to TOE (field units) dentists. they are still at 15 months.
  6. jmick101

    jmick101 Kung Fu DDS

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    Welcome to the forum, it is really good have you. I am thrilled to hear from someone who seems to be enjoying life so far in the military. I did a few years on active duty and still have some residual Army pride that shines through occasionally, though I dont think most people would understand. I gonna make a guess and say that are at Ft. Benning. I have made a statement that I really wouldnt want to go to a place like Benning because I figured that you would just place amalgams on basic trainees all day. Is that what you have found? What is your average day like (including PT and time off)? Thanks.
  7. Kabek

    Kabek

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    Hello,

    This has been an interesting thread to browse through. I thought I might add some more food for thought from another perspective.

    Army
    1996-2000 HPSP (3 year)
    2000-2001 AEGD Germany
    2001-2004 MTOE Germany
    2004-current IRR

    A couple of questions which I saw voiced through the thread.

    1) Civilian residency prior to AD time with an HPSP.
    This was some time ago but one of classmates (4 went Army) was able to defer to do his OS residency although they would not allow him to do a 6 year program. However, a grad from either Pitt or Penn(can't remember) was allowed to do a 6 year (what one hand receives the other might not).

    2) Transfer of service.
    One of my fellow friends whom I did my residency with was allowed to transfer to the AF. This is a difficult process and the DC/HRC can deny anything they want "do to the needs of the Army".

    My transfer attempts have been less then fruitful, having tried to transfer to the PHS for the last 3 years while on IRR status. The first 2 years were denied, currently I submitted my paperwork again in November so we will see for this year. IRR status can be difficult as I have a number of friends who are afraid to purchase into a private practice as there is a possiblity they could be recalled. I don't know any dentists personally that have been recalled off IRR but my wife was recalled last January 2007 to Iraq for another tour and I probably won't get her back until this summer (16 months later after all AD obligations were completed). In other words people do get called off IRR.

    3) Obligation.
    You have to enter into the system knowing the only end of the contract that will be followed as written will be your own end. I know only a few people who served only there original AD obligation. I owed 3 years AD served 4.5 years AD.

    4) Residency training.
    In my opinion it far exceeds the majority of civilian programs.

    My 2 cents.
  8. BQuad

    BQuad

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    Do you or your wife know anyone else that has been called off of IRR? I'm assuming your wife isn't a dentist? Was she enlisted or an officer? Last I heard from the Dental Corps Chief was that if ever recalled from IRR, tours should only be 90days.
  9. Kabek

    Kabek

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    BQuad,

    She is an officer, academy grad, not a dentist. There are thousands of IRR people who have been recalled and are serving tours. In the group she got recalled with there were a number of her other classmates whom she was recalled with. From what we have seen the Army likes to recall people nearing the end of their IRR time so they can keep them on board before they are able to resign their commission if they so desire.

    DC chief, MG Czerw said only 90 days? That sounds pretty optimistic, it would take them longer then that just to inprocess/outprocess you. Heck my wife being recalled over a year ago now still trying to get her pay issues resolved. On the bright side, this tour her R&R leave didn't start until she got home. On her last tour her R&R started when she left Kuwait so she actually got 4 days of her leave used traveling.
  10. OSU_DentGirl

    OSU_DentGirl Junior Member

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    Kabek,
    May I ask where in Germany you were? Where are the other bases in Germany? And, if I would be stationed there, are there career opportunities for my husband? He is not in the military. Does the Army offer any kind of job assistance that you know of? Thank you for your help!
  11. Kabek

    Kabek

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    Hello,

    I was in a couple of places in Germany. If you have the opportunity to go Germany jump on it, it is a wonderful experience. The residency is on the western side of Germany based out of the Baumholder clinic and then 25 minutes south at the Landstuhl hospital. The area around Landstuhl/Kaiserlauten has a massive American contingent with the Ramstein Air Base (biggest AF base in Europe). When I was there in that area of Germany there was about 60K Americans or so.

    The hospital at Landstuhl is now where numerous wounded soldiers are treated from Iraq prior to getting back to the states. This is where during my residency I spent 3 months on the back of an OS, what an experience.

    In this area of Germany there would be multitude of jobs your husband could probably get. The Army does provide services to help with family issues. Just keep in mind and this saying isn't far from the truth "if the Army wanted you to have a (fill in the blank) they would have issued you one." As you go to smaller areas there are less jobs. There is a multitude of clinics all over Germany but over the last decades they are slowing renovating them all and then give the posts back to the Germans.

    Following my one year on the western side I moved to the northern Bavaria region living close to Wuerzburg. This is in the wine producing region of Germany. I was with an MTOE unit at an air base for a bit over 3 years. This area of Germany is much nicer then the western area I spent my first year. However, that is by no means saying that I didn't enjoy the other side.

    I don't know if that helps but like I said go to Germany if you can, you won't regret it. Just pass your licensing exam because you can't go overseas until that happens.
  12. Chachito

    Chachito

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    I am in Germany right now, been here since July 2007. We are also stationed in the Southern Bavaria region, and we love it here. There has been a lot of talk about closing down bases, but the latest news is that they are not going to close our base (Bamberg) There are still lots of bases, and lots of dentists. There are three DENTACS, ours has about 18 active duty dentists, probably about 8 of which are CPT. In my graduating class, three of us wanted Germany, and two of us got it. Both of us are in PROFIS positions, and just to verify, I also just received the email stating we will only deploy for six months at a time. Good news, because that's much better than 15 months, bad news, because we're 2.5 times more likely to get deployed, now. There are also quite a few TOE dentists here, which really seems to suck, especially for new graduates. They are only in the clinic 2-3 days a week, if they're lucky, they don't have an assigned assistant, so they just get whoever is doing nothing else, they still deploy for 15 months, they do not get to come to DENTAC functions, like our long weekend in Munich for Oktoberfest, or our on-week CE at the Edelweiss resort in Garmisch, the list goes on. It's pretty much just luck that we weren't assigned to a TOE unit. That and getting on CPT Pratt-Chamber's good side.
  13. OSU_DentGirl

    OSU_DentGirl Junior Member

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    Thank you for your replies! I would like to request Germany, BUT I heard that those MTOE are no good for dentists. The instructor at OBC even told us! So, how would one go about guaranteeing a PROFIS position? CPT Pratt-Chambers?
    Viel Gl├╝ck in Deutschland!
  14. Chachito

    Chachito

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    I really did stress to CPT Pratt-Chambers that I did not want a TOE spot. In fact, I told her that I would rather not go to Germany if that's all there was available. It seemed to me like she was pretty flexible with things. The year I did it, last year, she just based where we went on who asked for spots first. Since I had been asking about Germany since the year before, she said I was first on the list. Then I just emailed her back and forth a few times, she had me call her so she could talk to me about what to put on my wishlist. She said Ft. Lewis and Ft. Carson would just be wasted choices, etc... There was no way I was going to put Ft. Drum or Ft. Campbell, not that interested in deploying. Anyway, I heard that this year's graduates already know where they're going, which is much earlier than it was for us. As soon as you find out you're going overseas, go to the nearest base and get your no-fee passports. They have a special stamp inside, and they are the one's you are suppossed to use when you enter the country, although the tourist passports will work too. If you haven't already, let CPT Pratt-Chambers know you are interested in Germany. Ask if there is anything you can do to prepare/increase your chances of going there.
  15. SoonerFan

    SoonerFan

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    Yes I am stationed at Ft. Benning.

    Most of the dentist here are not on the amalgam line. The PT shedule is light and we do not work weekends and do have off all holidays/training holidays.

    My practice is very nice and I am able to do what I choose. The majority of my practice is 3rd removal and Perio surgery, however due to need I still do operative. The reason my practice is different from other young dentist might be the fact that the Federal Services definitely see the Comprehensive Dentist as a specialist. I would strongly suggest specializing.


    SoonerFan
  16. fishermaneric

    fishermaneric

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    I wanted to also add my 2 cents.

    My army history is as follows:

    2001-2005 HPSP at U Maryland
    2005-2007 2 year AEGD comprehensive residency. Ft. Hood
    2007-Present Fort Irwin

    My experience in the Army has been a good one. I Enjoyed my time in dental school because I didn't worry about money like my class mates, and I graduated with next to no debt. Just like Sooner Fan I have not yet deployed. I would like to echo his sentiments that deployments are not as wide spread as one may think. With that being said there is always a chance.
    If you are looking for a great opportunity to become better at your choosen proffesion than the military is the place for you. In my opinion the military residencies are second to none. Some of the reasons are as follows: 1. you are taught by mostly board certified specialists. 2. There are no stipulations as far as what treatment the patient can accept with regards to money. So if you and the patient want to do it, you do the treatment. 3. And the patients are great, very punctual and grateful for your treatment.

    My residency was awesome. I learned everything under the sun in dentistry.

    Oral surgery: extracted the most difficult third molar impactions, biopsy of pathology, handle space infections both simple and complex.

    Perio surgeries to include: GTR, GBR, CT grafts, implant placement and esthetic crown lengthening.

    Complex pros cases: full mouth rehab, implant retained dentures, implant retained crowns and FDP's, veneers.

    Endo: Molar endo, rotary endo, apicoectomies, re-treats, post removal, perferation repair.

    Ortho: Band and bracketed mulitple cases that I took through to completion. Minor ortho work to set people up for pros or implants.

    Pedo: Concious sedation on the little hell raisers. Became proficient at SSC's

    And the best part about all of it is that now at my practice here at Ft. Irwin I use it all everyday. No one tells me what I can't do or can do. I am able to control my schedule and do what I want. Just like Sooner Fan, I extract a lot of thirds and do a lot of perio surgery, but I also do a lot of molar endo and complex pros cases when they are forced upon me. You can't beat the quality of practice in the Army if you specialize. If you don't do a residency or you just do a 1 year AEGD you are leaving things a bit more to chance. Some people get sweet assignments, but a lot of people are stuck doing amalgams and sick call all day every day. A lot of it has to do with were you are stationed.

    I wouldn't change my career path for anything. I know it sounds like I am a lifetime member of the Army, but I will probably get out. But I have sure gotten a good education, gotten to do some awesome dentistry and have some good experiences in the process. There is no way you can get this experiece in the civilian world. You can't afford this type of education. You couldn't do it footing the bill yourself at CE courses, and your patients counldn't afford the treatment you provide in a civialian residency. I am not just talking about a 2 year AEGD. The same goes for Pros, Endo, Ortho, OMFS and all the other specialties.

    I've rambled long enough, just thought some people might like to here my take on things.

    PS. I spell worse than Sooner Fan so please forgive me.
    PSS. The info given on another post regarding the 6 month deployment for PROFIS dentists is true. Good news.
  17. jmick101

    jmick101 Kung Fu DDS

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    Dang, good to see that we are getting some more active duty Army dentists on here. Bquad is cool, but he has been getting the shaft and it sucks for him. You guys are really making me start to seriously consider the 2 year AEGD, it sounds awesome.
    By the way, where are the 2 year AEGDs? I am having some trouble finding out where exactly all of them are.
  18. Cudds2011

    Cudds2011

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    I'm in the Navy HPSP, but due to family circumstances, I'm looking to switch into a branch that will give me a chance to stay in the midwest. I know that I'll need to find someone who wants to switch, but I'm wondering how hard/easy it is to get stationed in a place like Leavenworth. Thanks.
  19. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    do not do a 2-year AEGD unless you KNOW you want to stay in the Army for 20 years and only want to do general dentistry.
    the only reason the 2-year AEGD exists is so that career general dentists can have a way to get specialty pay (board certified amalgadontist) and make it to COL within 20 years and not get boarded out of the Army before they hit their 20 year mark.
  20. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    this year its pretty hard. my top three choices for next year were going to be Leavenworth, Riley and Leonard Wood. all are places that are never requested and most people would rather not go. i was told that there were no available positions at any of those places.
  21. blankguy

    blankguy

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    I've been told something to that effect. If you are looking to bail before your 20 years then do a 1 yr. You pretty much get the same benefit minus the board certification.
  22. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    What if you want to get into the private sector after fulfilling your commitments. Wouldn't a 2 year AEGD expose you to more cases in terms of volume and diversity to help prepare a GD in private practice?
  23. BQuad

    BQuad

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    A 2 year will expose you to an awful lot of patients and experiences and if you really want to learn a lot about all field of dentistry it is a good way to go. Doing a two year would give the ability to have a wider scope of practice.

    Unfortunately, that experience won't correlate to as much of a financial reward that a real specialty will, so it's up to you to decide if the extra commitment is worth it or not.
  24. fishermaneric

    fishermaneric

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    This is absolutley not true. The AEGD-2 is a great way to learn everything in dentistry. True many of the COL who do the 2 year AEGD are the administrators in the dental corps. However. The only people who become "board certified amalgamologists" are the 63-A, (General Dentists who don't do a 2-AEGD). I don't know where the comment about doing a 2-year only if you intend to stay in came from, but a graduate of a two year program is leaps and bounds ahead of most other general dentists in terms on knowlege about dentistry. It does add two more years to your commitment. So a total of six years.
    The army has different agendas for graduates of the 2-year program become administrators, running clinics and running residency programs, but it also has the program so that it has dentists that can do it all, for deployments, and small clinics that are not staffed with the full array of specialists.
    I did the 2-year for the reasons listed in my last post. I wanted to get a great education. The extra two year commitment was well worth it. I plan on getting out when my commitment is up. Like I said, this type of didactic and clinical education for a general dentist can't be gotten anywhere else.
  25. fishermaneric

    fishermaneric

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    The residencies are at:
    1. Fort Hood Texas
    2. Tripler Medical Center, Hawaii
    3. Fort Bragg, North Carolina
  26. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    not to get into an argument about the 2-year residency with fishermaneric about this, but i don't think the decision to go into a 2-year AEGD should be taken lightly. talk to any specialist in the Army and i guarantee that almost all of them will give you the same advice about the 2-year residency that i have.

    now, having heard both the recommendations for and against the 2-year AEGD, i will tell you that if you want to do it, it is pretty easy to get selected for it.
    pretty much every year, the Army struggles to fill all the 2-year positions. this year, there were 20 spots available, and only 14 were filled. everyone that applied was selected.

    the other thing to consider is that if you think you might want to do a regular specialty (ortho, endo, etc....) that there is a waiting period of five years after completing the 2-year AEGD (you must work as a 63B general dentist for five years) before you can apply to one of the true specialties.

    again, i would not do it, unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure that you either want to remain a general dentist, or KNOW you want to spend a long time in the military. but that is just my opinion. (opinions are like buttholes and bellybuttons - everyones got them and most stink) just to emphasize this, i this it is relevant to point out that there was a COL, a LTC and a MAJ that were selected for the 2-year AEGD this year.
  27. Kabek

    Kabek

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    Fishermaneric,

    I strongly agree with your comment, "a graduate of a two year program is leaps and bounds ahead of most other general dentists in terms of knowledge about dentistry." However, that doesn't neccesarily correlate to success in private practice. As we (HPSP students, a number of us were in the top of the class) graduated from dental school (Maryland, 2000) wondered about some of the selections into civilian residencies. The kid ranked #1(hypothetical) couldn't cut a prep to save his/her life, but could ace the bar exam if they studied for 15 minutes. My basis for the statement is that private practice is based on the perception of the like or dislike of the clinician unless of course the prominent work is in the esthetic zone of a chonic meth addict in a significant segment of the population. The majority of the time in dental care the patient doesn't know whether you are competent, they know whether you were nice, whether the injection didn't hurt. Just like when we go to the doc, get a colonoscopy, was twilighted to not remember the procedure (they did a sweet job, do we have a clue what happened?). So I am just making the statement knowledge doesn't correlate with success in private practice all the time. I am using the term success loosely associated with financial reward although this would not be my definition of the term.


    As I read some of the posts from prospective HPSP students it brings back memories of my OBC class with 1/4 of 400 people being dentists. I remember when HRC came and told us a number of the people were going MTOE units and they literally broke down. The rest us went to our 1 AEGD and then were tasked to MTOE units following that. My goodness folks you are joining the military and you get to work some of the finest Americans there are, volunteering to serve our nation. Why is it better for someone else to go instead of you? I say that with meaning as my wife does another tour in Iraq being called of IRR (bullet thrower side of the house). That being said for the people who want to stay TDY the best option is to not do the 1 or 2-AEGD as they will need to keep a closer eye on you.

    For those joining the military solely for the financial incentive it is to bad because some of the MTOE stuff is interesting, heck it may even be useful. I can't think of a day that would be more meaningful now then if I could help a soldier with my skill set. You will have your entire career to be wet fingered. Dentistry, working with hands, that is the fun part but the people attached to those teeth can get tiresome outside of the military environment.

    It does appear I am rambling but more food for thought.
  28. jb54ram

    jb54ram DDS 2008, US ARMY

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    I was told this week by CPT Pratt-Chambers that she has pencilled me in at my 1st duty station coming out of school. I am happy with the location as it was my first choice---what are the chances that things might change and I would not get this location?
  29. jb54ram

    jb54ram DDS 2008, US ARMY

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    Active duty members:
    I was forced to buy loupes my 1st year, and I really don't like the ones I have. I have been holding out on getting new ones with the thought the military would buy them for me when I go active. In addition, I had hoped to get a headlight---are these things that I will easily be able to attain, or would it be advisable to pay out of pocket with student prices?
  30. fishermaneric

    fishermaneric

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    KABEk

    Absolutly right, doing a 1 or 2 year AEGD dosn't correlate to sucess in private practice. There are many people who don't get any extra education and very capable, and sucessful dentists. I made my comments only based upon the fact that extra education will allow someone to have to confidence and skills necessary to to perform most treatment needs that walks through your door. The real truth is that most of the complex treatment we do for our patients would not be accepted by people in private practice based solely on cost and length of treament.
    I also agree that most people only care about whether or not you are a nice doctor, whether or not you hurt them and if there stuff looks good. But with that being said, a gentle hand and a friendly smile is no excuse for being ignorant about what is good or poor treament. And the sad truth is that many people think that dental school gave them all the tools necessary to be a good dentist, when the truth is dental school gave them just enough to be minimimully competent. I was a good dental student and my residency truely opened my eyes. I couldn't have imanged the things I didn't know before my residency.
    A 1 or 2 AEGD is not for everyone. Each person has to ultimatly decide uponn their own what they want. If you later want to specialize then absolutly don't do a 2 year becsause you will be in the army forever. But if you want to be a great general dentist then by all means get the extra education. Most people don't think the extra two years are worth it, which is evident by the ammount of people who don't apply for the residency. But that donsn't make it a bad education either. Furthermore everyone who graduates from the residency is not going to be glad they did it. It is a very difficult residency and you get out it what you put into it.
  31. fishermaneric

    fishermaneric

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    It really depends on your commander at your duty assignment and if he has the money for it. Most will usually buy you a set of loupes and a headlight. But it isn't guarenteed. Where are you going?
  32. jmick101

    jmick101 Kung Fu DDS

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    Guys thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the dialogue for and against the 2 year AEGD. Because I have some active duty time under my belt and a hefty commitment ahead (7 years, 4 for undergrad 3 for D school) 20 years isnt all that much of a stretch for me. I would like to do OS but... I dont think that I am smart enough. I ranked in the dead center of my class and I dont see myself blowing the boards out of the water. As far as the other specialities, I can really say I have any real passion for any of them. Of course, that could all change.

    The reason that the AEGD2 sounds so good is that I think that I would enjoy being a jack of all trades and getting paid a little better for it. I would also like knowing that if I wanted to stay twenty I wont get passed over and kicked out with 2 years left to retirement (I sound like a lifer here dont I). UK, thanks for the perspective and information. Most everything with the military is a mixed bag. Fisherman, thanks as well.

    I have a couple more questions: do you have much control over which AEGD program you get, or do you just cross your fingers? Is there any chance of graduating, doing OBC, and showing up a little late to residency? I am not crazy about the idea of waiting a year and then moving somewhere else to start residency. Then again, it might be a nice break. Anyways.
  33. fishermaneric

    fishermaneric

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    They usually reserve the Hawaii residency for people who have spent some time in the military for a while. So for example if you had spent some time in another clinic for a couple of years then decided to apply. But that dosn't mean you wouldn't have a chace to make it to Hawaii if you wanted. Especially with your prior service and longer commitment. I requested Ft. Hood after Hawaii and had Ft. Bragg last. I got my middle choice Ft. Hood right out of dental school. If you havn't gone to OBC yet then you will have to wait a year before you start your residency. They never let people start late the same year. But, they usually let you spend your first year at the same location as your residency. There was a CPT in the class behind me who did exactly that. Spend one year at Hood after OBC as a general dentist in the same clinic as the residency then moved upstairs to the residency clinic the next year. I don't know if they are always that accommodating but I also know a guy who spent his first year at Ft. Sam Houston right out of dental school then started his OMFS residency the next year at BAMC. He got picked up right out of dental school.

    Hope this helps.
  34. SoonerFan

    SoonerFan

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    Everyone,

    Someone posted a statement saying that they would get paid a little more as a Comprehensive Dentist in the Army. Actually, the Army, Navy, Air Force, CDC, and Public Health Core (all federal services) ranks their Specialist in teirs. There is only 2 Specialties in Teir 1 and that is OMFS and the Comprehensive Dentist (About the same $ as well). That tells me what the Federal Services thinks of a Comprehensive Dentist. Another point is that the Federal Services do not see a Comprehensive Dentist as a General Dentist. This is considered a true specialty within the Federal Services and one is treated as such. Yes, Yes, due to the ADA it is not a specialty in the civilian world. However, besides OR cases I do not know what I would need to refer if I where in the civilian world, which I may be someday. I think I would limit my practice to 3rd cases and perio surgery. I can do what ever I would like at a specialty level because of the elite training in the Comp. Program.

    I do think the Comprehensive Program will lead to more $ in the civilian practice. I am happy with my decision to have completed the residency whether I am going to stay in Army or get out. I actually have considered (only speculation) that the residency will do more for me in the civilian practice than it does for me in the Army.

    The goal of the Comprehensive Residency is to make the resident truely sub-specialized in every area of dentistry. However, I do understand it may not be for everyone!! It is true as BQuad said a person does have to wait 5yrs. between residencies.

    It may sound like I have sucked down too much of the company punch, however, in reality I am fair and balanced (more so than Fox News!)

    SoonerFan
  35. Kabek

    Kabek

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    SoonerFan,

    Here the numbers to help the people with what your are talking about.


    FY08 DENTAL OFFICER MULTIYEAR RETENTION BONUS (DOMRB)
    ELIGIBLE SPECIALTY: LENGTH OF SVC AGREEMENT:
    LEVEL 1: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
    ORAL-MAXILLOFACIAL SURG (63N) $25,000 $38,000 $50,000
    COMPREHENSIVE DENTISTRY (63B) $25,000 $38,000 $50,000
    LEVEL 2: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
    ENDODNTICS (63E) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    PROSTHODONTICS (63F) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    DEN PUBLIC HLTH (63H) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    ORAL-MAXILLOFACIAL PATH (63P) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    ORTHODONTICS (63M) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    PEDIATRIC DENTISTRY (63K) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    PERIODONTICS (63D) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    DENT RESEARCH PHD LEVEL $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
    LEVEL 3: Currently not used by ASD(HA)
    ($18,000 $27,000 $35,000)
    LEVEL 4: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
    ARMY ADVANCED CLIN PRACTICE:
    (Exod, Endo, GenDen, Perio, Pros) $13,000 $19,000 $25,000
    Eligibility: 8-years creditable service from HPPED -OR- completion of all training obligations (ADOs)
  36. jb54ram

    jb54ram DDS 2008, US ARMY

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    West Point, NY
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    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Don't have official orders---but CPT Pratt Chambers said she had me pencilled in at my first choice. I don't want to say where, b/c I know that I will jinx it if I do! How likely am I to get orders for the location if she told me she has me pencilled in? Are any other graduates from this year being told where they are going?
  37. fishermaneric

    fishermaneric

    Joined:
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    Fort Irwin
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    If she told you she pencilled you in there is a pretty good chance that is where you will get to go. But nothing is official until you have orders in your hand. I would not at all be supriesed if I were you if you ended up someplace that wasn't even on your list. That is kind of how I ended up at Fort Irwin. The needs of the army superceded any desires we may have as individuals. Don't worry you will get use to the workings of the army real soon. But more than likely you will end up where she told you.
  38. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    Army SDN 7+ Year Member
    this thinking is going to be the think that will drive your private practice right into the ground. fast. especially the part about limiting your practice to 3rds and perio surgery. no general dentist will refer these things to you.

    so you are telling me that in your 2-year AEGD, you have the same elite training as a 3 year perio residency, a 2 year endo residency, and a 2 year pros residency (not to mention the other specialties!!!) all packed into your two-year, elite, residency? simply amazing!!!

    the FACT is that over half of the 63B positions in the Army right now are filled with 63A9D's right now. three of the residents in my 1-year AEGD are being assigned to positions for 63B's.

    unless you are in a small clinic with few of no specialists, the 63B's spend most of their time on the amalgam line, just like the 63A's.
  39. SoonerFan

    SoonerFan

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    SDN 2+ Year Member
    umkcdds,

    Forgive me for pushing a button with you and potentially starting a battle among us Officers in the U.S. Army.

    My response to you may be summed up as follows: I would like to keep this forum focased on the current HPSP students and potential HPSP students. I think all of us do not want to deviate from that. This is not about me, but about what many of us believe the training has to offer. I wish success on everyone!! (if there are no more questions about the Comp. Program from anyone else, I suggest we move on) I, a person who has completed a Comprehensive Residency was just trying to give insight into what the training did for me. I can give examples all day long over what I did or did not do in program, but I thought it would be more beneficial to the future Army dentist to paint a picture of how the residency may shape my future and if they choose thiers. I can only speak of the residency I did and not all the others. I encourage anyone to do what ever residency fits thier vision. Our Army Residencies are well, elite!!

    The point is that I feel so confident in my training and skill set post residency that I anticipate the option to limit my practice anyway I choose. Also I am not talking about a physical practice but instead to travel to other practices and offer my Dento-Alveolar surgical services. I do have a Comprehensive Dentist friend who is currently going into practices and just taking out 3rds. (He is getting an overwhelming interest from GDs) Bottom Line: The residency at least for me has opened more options in my future than I could have imagined and lets face it our options as dental professionals are very wide open anyway.

    So, please lets keep this forum to open dialogue aimed at the benefit of all.



    Respectfully,


    SoonerFan

    P.S. Naturally you are right in the idea that I did not get as much perio as a perio resident and so forth. This is true! However, it is nice to be able to understand all specialties at a deep level and bring that style of knowledge to each case. On that point Ft. Hood's Comp. Program is the only residency with a Post of 50,000 Active Duty Troops and the residency is the only referal spot. So, as residents we screened all referals and took all the cases.

    P.S.S. You are not unhappy with me b/c OU beat you all twice this year are you? Just Kidding! Missouri will be an elite team next year as well.
  40. SoonerFan

    SoonerFan

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    SDN 2+ Year Member
    To All,

    Do not ever count yourself out on Army Residencies. They are not closed to people who might not have been gunners in dental school.




    SoonerFan
  41. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    Army SDN 7+ Year Member
    actually, even though i'm from missouri, i've always been an OU fan, and get a lot of crap about it too!
  42. SoonerFan

    SoonerFan

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    SDN 2+ Year Member
    umkcdds,

    So, we are brothers!



    SoonerFan

    P.S. Where are you going after your AEGD?
  43. OSU_DentGirl

    OSU_DentGirl Junior Member

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    Columbus Ohio
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Speaking of Army Residencies, is a person right out of dental school able to apply to endo? I think I remember hearing that you have to do an AEGD before applying to endo. And, I was just reading the list of people who got into the residencies, and I noticed that Oral and Maxillofacial Pathology has no one. Is that because the Army doesn't use them, or because no one wanted it, or because there were no openings? And, where would a Pathologist work? I don't quite see how a pathologist would fit anywhere into the DoD.
  44. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    Army SDN 7+ Year Member
    it is possible to apply for endo and ortho, but you won't get selected right out of school. it is a bit of an unspoken/unofficial rule among the endo and ortho people. endo and ortho highly value your previous active duty service time.
  45. SoonerFan

    SoonerFan

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    SDN 2+ Year Member
    OSU_DentGirl,

    Are you considering Pathology? From what I have seen the pathologist have a pretty good Army life. They seem to have a lot of autonomy.



    SoonerFan
  46. jmick101

    jmick101 Kung Fu DDS

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    I remember reading not too long ago that it was policy that you had to have at least two years of AD time to even apply for the Army Ortho or Endo programs. I cant find the reference anymore, but if you look at specialty selection results over the last few years, no LT's were primary selectees. I think a couple got on the wait list.

    Speaking of wait lists, do people get in off those often?
  47. OSU_DentGirl

    OSU_DentGirl Junior Member

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    Columbus Ohio
    Status:
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    SDN 5+ Year Member
    I have an interest in Pathology, so I am thinking about it. I just noticed that no one was selected this year.
    And I meant no harm by saying I didn't see how a pathologist fit into the military. I was actually thinking more along the lines of research. One of my instructors is a good resource and since he is a clinician and researcher, I guess I was generalizing.
  48. Devil Doc

    Devil Doc

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    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Well said... Many times the oral path will have his office in or very near to the OMFS dept.
  49. Flakbait9

    Flakbait9

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    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Hey Everyone,

    It's great to have several Army dentists with different perspectives. I enjoyed the discussion about the 2-year AEGD, and may still consider it once I graduate, but I have some questions about the 1-year AEGD.

    1. Is it harder to get selected for?

    2. Do you think you would learn basically the same things while just on active duty as a "regular" dentist that you'd learn in an AEGD, without the additional time commitment?

    3. How much say do you have in whether or not you are assigned PROFIS or TOE? I think I'd rather have the higher odds of a 6-month deployment than roll the dice with a 15-month tour.

    4. Is it difficult to get stationed in Germany right out of school, or for an AEGD?

    5. When do you start working with CPT Pratt-Chamber about you station? I'm just a D1, but I'm curious.


    .Thanks for the advice. .
  50. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

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    Fort Campbell, KY
    Army SDN 7+ Year Member
    i'm not sure on this one as of yet. it is now required that all 4th year students apply for the 1-year AEGD, so it might be harder to get the 1-year now. if the current trend for the 2-year AEGD continues, anyone who applies for it gets accepted, since there are not enough applicants to fill all the spots.

    no, a general dentist right out of school not doing an AEGD gets stuck doing little more than exams and big amalgam restorations.

    as long as you call and start asking for a PROFIS spot, the chances are fairly good. just start asking which PROFIS spots are available, and give HRC (CPT Pratt-Chambers now) a list of your three or four favorites of those available.

    there are usually plenty of spots available to go to Germany. it is very easy to get Germany out of an AEGD, if that is what you ask for. coming out of dental school, you probably have a 50% chance of getting it if you ask.

    i would start calling her about October of your 4th year of school. call her in October for the first time. then again in November, then twice in December and twice in January for updates. seriously. i know that sounds like a joke, but assignments that are available change constantly up until orders are cut. so, keep on top of it. the requests for orders (RFO's) usually go out at the end of January (all of the other residents here got theirs last week). orders will be actually cut in about the second week of February.

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