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Ask any questions to a Navy Dentist!

Discussion in 'Military Dentistry' started by Deep Impact, 08.17.07.


  1. Thanks to Crack the NBDE
  1. eric275

    eric275 Prosthodontist

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    0-3 pay with < 2years is $3407/month on the 2008 paychart.

    So for clarification the pays you get are:
    Base Pay:$3407/month = $40,884/yr
    BAS: $202/month = $2424/yr (Basic Allowance for Subsistence)
    BAH: ~$1375/month (CONUS average) this can be as high as $2000+/month depending on your duty zip code. Also note that this pay is non-taxed dollars and can be more if your married. = ~$16,500 to $24,000 depnding on zip code. (Basic Allowance for Housing)
    VSP: $3,000/yr (Variable Special Pay)
    ASP: $10,000/yr (Additional Special Pay)

    So your gross income range will be between ~$72,808 and $80,308 depending on your duty station zip code.
  2. MrLebowski

    MrLebowski

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    Thanks! :thumbup:
  3. Frederico Albin

    Frederico Albin Yes thats my bulldog :)

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    Question.

    Can one of you guys tell me what other benefits does the Navy give you other than the ones MrLebowski mentioned above. This is a general question. Any other kind of benefit out there.. I have been thinking about joining the Navy for a long time and I am getting down to the point to go talk to an recruiter.
    The reason why I am asking this question is because I am married, and I am looking to see what kind of benefits my family would be getting from this commitment that I will be making.

    Thank you
  4. blueside

    blueside

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    Last edited: 11.18.08
  5. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    If you're doing it for the pure financial aspect, do private practice, that's my advice.
  6. navdent

    navdent

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    I spent 10 years in the Navy as a naval flight officer on active duty until late 2004. I am now in dental school and will graduate 2012. I am not currently receiving any kind of scholarship (because I am a service academy grad). I am now weighing the option of completing my naval career after graduation in the dental corps.

    2 questions:

    1. I was wondering if you specialize in the Navy, do the years you spend in training count towards retirement?

    2. Will the new revised Montgomery GI Bill reimburse me for my Dental school tuition starting in 2009?

    Thanks in advance.
  7. dheav005

    dheav005 keepin' it movin'

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    welcome NFO! you'll be in rare company to return to the Navy as a guy who can actually wear a flight suit. anyway, i dont know much about the new GI bill, but there are several options for repayment including the HPLRP and augmentee bonuses. as far as the specialization goes: yes, years in specialty training count toward retirement. you are active duty during that time, even if you are granted DUINS on the outside. you would also return to service with the rank you had already achieved, with an inside track toward advancement sooner. (dental cohorts being smaller and less competitive than on the line side)...good luck.
  8. OffAngleHatchet

    OffAngleHatchet Likes off-angle hatchets

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    Hey Blueside,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'll have a 5 year commitment to the Active Reserves if you take the scholarship. Might not be the best idea for you.

    Reason being, you should also consider whether or not you will be interested in building your own practice/buying out an existing practice in the future. Active Reservists can be called up to fill in slots that Active Duty personnel leave behind when deployed. If they call you up while you're building up your fledgling practice, what will happen to the practice? Someone's got to fill in for you, you might lose patients, etc...

    Might be better to go into Active Duty, but I don't know how that will square away with WICHE.

    As far as going into private practice... Straight out of dental school, you should expect to be able to make a living, but you shouldn't expect to be raking in the kinds of $$$ that the more experienced dentists make.

    You don't have to have something lined up after school right now. Plenty of DDSes start as associates at multiple practices or as associates at group practices to gain experience and speed. Just don't be afraid to take that hygiene job, or temporary maternity leave position if it helps pay the bills.

    Of course it all depends on how much $$$ you'll be owing once you graduate. If you don't mind me asking, how much?

    BTW, I'm a greenside navy DDS, stationed at a Marine Base. If you go Navy, definitely go green.
  9. NAVY DDS 2010

    NAVY DDS 2010 Proud Daddy

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    You are wrong. Upon completion of the active service obligation, you can choose to do one of three things:

    1. Stay on active duty
    2. Go to the active reserves
    3. Go to the IRR (Inactive Ready Reserves) - what most people do!!!

    If people choose to get off active duty, most do not choose to go to the active reserves. most finish their time in the IRR. NO DENTIST has ever been called to active duty from the IRR. That is why they go IRR. While on the IRR, you live pretty much a civilian life. You have to muster when ordered to and you have to take some online courses (at least when in the IRR in the Navy) to meet certain yearly criteria. Other than that, you do absolutelt nothing int he IRR. There is no risk to your practice. If you were ever called up from the IRR to active duty, most likely you and all of us would have a whole heck of a lot more things to worry about since womething MAJOR would be going on worldwide!
  10. drduke

    drduke

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    I would like to know if I am stationed at a base overseas, say okinawa, does my family get to come with me. My recruiter sais that even if I am with a ship I am only away from my familly when the ship is actually away from its home port, about 5 or 6 months at a time. Is this true?

    Also, I am interested in the AEGD or GPR. I understand that I have a much greater chance of getting stationed with a ship or with the marines if I do this. Is this true? I am mainly searching for clearification on when my familly is not able to be with me?

    One more thing for now. I understand I will be paid as an O3, about $3400/mo gross during my repayment period. I am trying to varify my other earnings. Special dental pay $208/mo gross, BAH O3 w/ dependents $1629/mo tax free, BAS $202/mo tax free, COLA not sure. Can you give me an idea if this is close to correct.

    Thanks for your input.
  11. MrLebowski

    MrLebowski

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    Hi there,
    Could you explain this a little more for oblivious folk like me? Sounds intriguing. Can you choose to work on Marine bases rather than being on a ship as a Navy dentist? Are there drawbacks to this approach (i.e. practicing in a tent in Fallujuah)?
  12. benko

    benko

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    Hi, I've been looking through the forum for a while now, and was hoping to get some advice. This basically boils down to a "what are my chances" question. (I posted this in the pre-dent section as well, before I saw this post)

    I'm currently a Marine MV-22 Osprey pilot with a couple of years left on my commitment. My undergraduate degree was in Criminology (i.e. very light in science) from a state school with a 3.3 GPA. A few months ago, I managed to knock out 3 credit hours of physics with an A- at a community college between tours to Iraq, but it was rough. Even while we're back stateside for around 6-9 months between deployments, we're constantly flying all over the place to get ready for the next one or working 70+ hour weeks at home, so taking science classes with a lab is tough, but it can be done. Looking at my timeline, I would be in a position to have all of my prereqs done and apply to dental school right around the time I would have to make a decision on whether to stay until my military retirement or go back to school.

    Do I have a legitimate shot at being accepted with my undergrad GPA and ~3.5 in my prereqs (although I took the physics at a community college, I have the ability to knock most of them out at a four-year university). I rarely see my family as it is now, without killing myself further with evening and weekend classes during my few months at home. If my chances are legitimate, however, I (and the family) would be willing to make that time sacrifice. For what it's worth, I love the military and would want to re-enter as a navy/army dentist upon graduation. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.
  13. navdent

    navdent

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    Benko,
    Since your path sounds very familiar to mine, I will give you my impressions during the D-school interview process. First off, let me say that your undergrad GPA is much better than mine was. My degree was in Engineering, which is also void of biological science courses. I ended up taking Bio 1 & lab, and both orgo chems w/ labs at community colleges, and still got accepted on my first attempt. I got about a 3.9 in 8 post-bac classes, but more importantly got over 20 on the DAT. I think admissions boards, realize that there is very little you can do to change your undergrad GPA at this point and that you have a lot more to offer your future classmates besides another high GPA, and another laundry list of academic awards.

    So as long as you do well in your pre-reqs (mostly As) and perform well on the DAT, they can justify admitting you. I think most schools, welcome the diversity in age and experience that a military aviator can bring, they just need to be able to show that it is not the only reason you are getting in.
  14. makushin

    makushin Member

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    .
    Last edited: 11.17.09
  15. dheav005

    dheav005 keepin' it movin'

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    makushin,

    post-grad training in the Navy is much less about your board scores and dental school extracurriculars and more about performing well in your GPR and your first operational tour. remember that your most likely LORs will be from your program director and department head(s). be willing to take on the more difficult cases, not just tough extractions, but also from a patient management standpoint. keep in the game and have some solid FITREPs and the Navy will be glad to train another OMFS, cause it guarantees another billet filled for 4 or more years in the future.
  16. meharry2010

    meharry2010

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    I am a 3rd year dental student at Meharry Medical College School of Dentistry, and a navy HPSP student. I'm wondering how many navy dentists are currently stationed on ships vs on base, and how much weight do they give to a new dentist's request for where he/she wants to be stationed? Obviously no one should join the military if they are worried about having to serve overseas, but I was just married and my wife and I would like to know what my chances of being deplolyed overseas are.
  17. trent

    trent Junior Member

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    What are your chances of getting overseas (Italy, Japan, etc) right out of school?

    I'd like to a chance to be stationed outside the US.
  18. DMyers

    DMyers

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    Hi...

    Interested to know how much instruction/exposure to IV sedation in Navy AEGD programs, and in Navy dentistry in general? Is nitrous oxide used much in practice in the Navy?

    Thanks,
    DMyers
  19. ryanaj

    ryanaj

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    Hey, I am looking into doing the NAVY HPSP and I was wondering if there is a limit on how often you can be deployed? I ask because I am married with children and I don't want to have to leave my family on multiple year long deployments.
  20. NAVY DDS 2010

    NAVY DDS 2010 Proud Daddy

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    No, there is not a limit, but the chances of getting stationed in two different jobs in a row that are deployable are low unless you specifically ask for it. Now, in any given billet, you may deploy a couple of times. The frequency of the deployments depends on the billet you are deployed with - the Marines or on a ship. If you were only in the Navy for the 4 year committment, most likely the you would do 2 deplyments at the most. You could also get billets wehre you don't deploy at all. It just depends on who they get to fill the jobs and when.

    But here is my advice from someone who has deployed multiple times: DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY if you will despise the thought ot having to do multiple deployments. Very few people love deployments, but it is the nature of the beast in the military. I know you didn't say you didn't want to deploy, but just knowing that you are having to question the militry and the potential of doing multiple deployments. Do you not think that there are other people in the military who are in the EXACT same position as you: married with children. I can tell you from experience it stinks being away from the family for the extend perioeds of time. But, we think the separation is worth me being able to serve our country. We chose this life and are willing to make the sacrifices.

    My suggestion - really think hard berfore taking the scholarship for the money. Otherwise, once you graduate and have to make the sacrifices and you begin to dislike what you are having to do, you will start to rub others the wrong way and make their life miserable. I have seen it many times before. please, think hard before you and your family join!
  21. eric275

    eric275 Prosthodontist

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    Has anyone ever heard of being allowed to do two seperate specialty residencies during a career?
  22. JSQUARED

    JSQUARED

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    In the Navy I only know of one person who has done multiple specialties, but I think there were extenuating circumstances that allowed more training to be sought.

    I just met an AF Prosthodontist who was completing his Ortho Residency. He can fulfill his 3 yr payback for Ortho and retire. Go figure, but that is the AF.

    I would not count on it.
  23. Kahr

    Kahr audi 5000 Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Just finished reading through all this, noticed one person had asked about AEGDs, wasn't answered. I also was interested in this.

    I looked over the Navy Dental specialty web site, which showed various locations for AEGDs, only one of which was overseas, on Okinawa, Japan. I'm wondering how much say you get in which AEGD location you go to? Or is it completely random?

    Also, do Navy dentists ever get put on submarines? And, in the "ODS" (officer school for the Navy?), what sort of fitness standards are required?

    Sorry if this all sounds naive, I was AF enlisted previously, don't know anything about the Navy, but are taking an interest for informative purposes in case the AF doesn't work out or the Navy seems like a better option when I'm ready to sign up for a scholarship.
  24. JSQUARED

    JSQUARED

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    When I was accepted for the AEGD I contacted the detailer to work on which one I was assigned to. I submitted a rank list. 1 San Diego, 2 Camp Pendleton, 3 Norfolk. I heard back from the detailer "We are thinking of sending you to Camp Lejuene, NC." I fought that one, then he said OK I have you at your #2 Camp Pendleton. Then a week later he said OK, I have you at your #1 San Diego. Go Figure, but it worked out for me. My AEGD counted as part of my 3yr payback. I think they are neutral now.

    OIS is the Navy Officer Indoctrination School in Newport Rhode Island. It was 5 weeks for me. They tried to make it more difficult than years past. We could only eat with spoons, had 15 mins for meals and could not talk. We could not eat sugar, drink soda or coffee. Looking back it is fun to laugh at now, but we all though it was pretty serious going through it. It is nothing like the "real" Navy.

    As for the physical fitness. If you can pass the push ups, sit ups, and 1.5 mile run you will be fine. Most of the people who had problems were the overweight nurses and physicians. Some of the older Chaplains lagged behind.

    Hope it helps.
  25. Kahr

    Kahr audi 5000 Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    JSQUARED,

    Excellent information, that is exactly what I was looking for in an answer. The only thing I was surprised not to hear, was required swimming. Either way, I wasn't asking because of concern for being able to handle any of it, just idle curiosity (it sounds identical to air force standards). That AEGD stuff sounds a little dicey, but I suppose most things in the military are "take what you get" type deals, so that's not really depressing or anything.

    Anyway, appreciate your reply much, thank you!
  26. NAVY DDS 2010

    NAVY DDS 2010 Proud Daddy

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    Kahr,

    Here are the standards you were asking for.

    Fitness standards:

    Males - http://www.navy-prt.com/malestandard.html
    http://www.navy-prt.com/maleweight.html

    females- http://www.navy-prt.com/femalestandard.html
    http://www.navy-prt.com/femaleweight.html

    I am not sure if you are male or female, so I included both for you to look at. The first link under each sex is the actual fitness standards. The males chart and females charts are different in how they linked them. Basically, look at the chart that is associated with your sex. For the males, this link has all age standards on one page. Choose the chart that has your age range in it. For females, you will have to click the link that has yoru age range. As long as you can meet the scores that fall in the Satisfactory high range, you will be fine.

    As far as ODS (formerly OIS), yes, they have attempted to make it harder. They are trying to make it mroe militaristic than the knife and fork school that it use to be. But no matter what they do, it will not compare to OCS that the non-legal, medical, chaplain corps personnel have to go to. 10 years ago right now I was in my 2nd week at oCS and was truley hating life. OIS will be a cake walk compared if you had to go to OCS. Do not worry about it at all. The 6 weeks will go by very fast (better than the 13 weeks at OCS.
    Last edited: 12.11.08
  27. Kahr

    Kahr audi 5000 Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Navy DDS,

    Ahh, thank you for the additional info. With such a detailed breakdown of score title(Outstanding High, Excellent, etc), I'd be interested in how that might be used administratively. I never had to do officer training, just the regular enlisted basic training, I trust what you're saying though.
  28. jmcalli

    jmcalli

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    The Okinawa AEGD is no longer an option. I'm not sure what duty stations offer AEGD's now.
  29. NAVY DDS 2010

    NAVY DDS 2010 Proud Daddy

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    When did this take effect? Did they permanently shut the program down there, or is it temporarily due to lack of interest? The Navy still lists it as an option on the Navy Postgrad website. that is why i ask.
  30. jmcalli

    jmcalli

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    I think it's permanent. I'll ask my office mate if you want to know. He ran the program. The last AEGD class graduated last summer and there is no new class.
  31. jmcalli

    jmcalli

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    Chances of going to Japan are good; chances of going to Italy are poor. Lots of dental billets in Japan, not many in Italy. Hawaii is also available, if you want to consider that "overseas".

    3D Dental Battalian/USNDC Okinawa has close to 90 dental officers. Most of those are in Japan (Okinawa and Iwakuni). Naval Hospital Yokosuka (Japan) has another 30 or 40 dentists assigned, I believe, who are on mainland Japan (Yokosuka, Yokohama, Atsugi, and Sasebo).

    There are also dental officers assigned to ships home ported in Japan (Yokosuka and Sasebo), although you would not be assigned a ship as your first job in the dental corps you could get a ship as your second assignment. Once overseas, you could conceivably go from a shore based clinic for three years to a ship for two years (or vice versa), and have back-to-back tours. This would allow you to "punch several tickets" if you intended to stay in for a career or apply for advanced training, etc.
    Last edited: 12.15.08
  32. NAVY DDS 2010

    NAVY DDS 2010 Proud Daddy

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    If you could ask, that would be great. People ask about Okinawa from time to time and it would be good information to know if the AEGD there is no longer in existance.
  33. jmcalli

    jmcalli

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    Correction - my office partner was not in charge of the AEGD program; he took over when the director became ill. There is no Okinawa AEGD now and no one knows if it will resume. Perhaps it will if they can find a director.

    Last year was a "transition year" for the AEGD credit-for-payback. Students entered their AEGD's without knowing if they would have to pay back their AEGD year or not. Around mid-year they found that they were not going to receive credit, so that didn't sit well and it may have been another reason it was not offered this year (maybe not enough applicants). But that is conjecture on my part.
  34. Kahr

    Kahr audi 5000 Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Ahh, that's too bad. I personally feel that being able to serve overseas is a fantastic opportunity, one I would love to do again this time around. But, as you pointed out, there seems to be a very large number of dental positions in Japan alone, so the loss of the AEGD isn't too terrible, but definitely not good news.

    jmcalli,

    In regard to all those "billets" as you call them, is there a general breakdown of those numbers based on specialty? Like half for general dentists, 5 oral surgeons, etc. Also, what do you mean about "punch several tickets", does it matter where you serve in the Navy (assuming you're career minded)?

    P.S. Send me some CoCo's Curry.
    P.P.S. I just remembered something I thought amusing; I got my wisdom teeth removed at the Naval Hospital there (Camp Lester?), they did a smashing good job. Who says military dentists are all bad? ;]
  35. jmcalli

    jmcalli

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    Roughly, out of the approximately 90 dentists in the Navy's Okinawa group, there are 3 oral surgeons and 1 exodontist, 2 periodontists, 2 prosthodontists, about 6 comprehensive dentists (general dentists with advanced training), 2 pedodontists, 2 endodontists, and 2 or 3 orthodontists. So that breaks out to about 70 general dentists and 20 specialists.

    It does matter where you serve in the Navy, if you plan to make it a career. If you only want to pay back your school loans and go into private practice as soon as you can get out, it doesn't matter. By "punching tickets" I mean that in order to advance in your career you need certain experiences. Doing well is always important, but doing well in certain jobs is critically important to advancement. Most things are competitive to some degree - promotions and selection for training. Selection boards look to see if you have reached particular milestones in your career and how you rank against your peers in your year group. Your fitness reports will provide the raw data for these selection boards and will show your ranking among your peers.

    For example, in the Navy, a shipboard tour or deploying with the Marines early on is a nice "ticket" to punch. An overseas tour is another "ticket." A department head tour (as head of dental department on a big ship) is good to get mid-career. Operational tours (shipboard or deployed with the Marines) in leadership positions to show that you can work well with the operational military, at certain points in your career, are important. Specialty training and achieving specialty board certification are additional "tickets" that can be punched for promotion for more senior pay grades.

    The types of jobs and achievements you need depend on what pay grade you are in and what promotion point you are reaching. As you become more senior, promotions become more competitive. If you wanted to stay in San Diego for 20 years and retire as an O-6 it might be possible, but it's unlikely unless you deploy in operational billets periodically and compete extremely well among your peers.

    I haven't been to Coco's yet but there's a pretty good curry restaurant on 23. The naval hospital is still on Camp Lester.
    Last edited: 12.18.08
  36. Parsox

    Parsox

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    If you owe time for HPLRP while in a non-dental community
    does the VSP and ASP repayment run concurrently or consecutively?
  37. DrReo

    DrReo "Thread Necromancer"

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    I've read through the entire form and was wondering how many times does the average person is deployed in 4 years and also, for about how long? And is this time on the ship or while it's docked?

    Additionally, when one is on a base, how long is a typical assignment in the US?

    Thanks in advance.
  38. dheav005

    dheav005 keepin' it movin'

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    why would you ask this question to a bunch of military dentists? why would you think we would know anything about the rules in medical corps or MSC?

    nonetheless, its a bit of a moot question. all special pays are being revamped and going to be housed in a single 'special pays' directorate within DoD. these will mean we do not have to go to Congress to make changes to the special pay arrangements, essentially cutting a year off of the time it take to get a special pay enacted.
  39. dheav005

    dheav005 keepin' it movin'

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    man, isnt this the million dollar question. the answer is... it depends.

    it depends on the length of your credentialing tour, your follow-on duty station (green side or blue side), the OPTEMPO for your unit, where your ship may be in its life cycle, etc.

    a young Naval dental officer can expect a 24-36 month operational tour after initial credentialing with a shore billet following for anywhere from 24-48 months. residency training can count as this shore billet time. of course, if you become an endodontist, periodontist, or especially orthodontist, you will probably never go to sea again. (unless you request it.)
  40. DrReo

    DrReo "Thread Necromancer"

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    I was wondering if you could define those listed above? Also, what does the operational tour typically consist of?

    Thank you for your response
  41. penguinteeth

    penguinteeth Member

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    Hey guys, I am class 2009.
    My duty station is already assigned to very nice location

    Really good thing about HSCP is if you are in state school like mine, your actual income is higher than HSCP while you are in school since you can take all of school grants and scholarships.
    You will be treated as active duty. You get nice health insurance. for example, you can get all of health care nearby Military hospital or dental clinic if not you can go to civilian doctors.

    YOUR YEARS IN SCHOOL COUNT TOWARDS YOUR RETIREMENT.
    What does this mean?
    I already accumulated 3 years towards my retirement. And I will get paid more for the same rank due to that retirement point.

    I think only Navy has HSCP.

    Go Navy :thumbup:
    Last edited: 12.26.08
  42. dheav005

    dheav005 keepin' it movin'

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    1. credentialing tours are basically your first duty station after dental school. it can be your AEGD/GPR or just clinic duty until the senior dental officers assigned to check your work feel you are clinically competent enough to stand on your own two feet. basically 9-12 months of transition from have everything checked in dental school to having only your own signature to back up your work.
    2. green side=Marines
    blue side=Navy
    Navy Medicine provides care for both sides.
    3. OPTEMPO is short for operational tempo. essentially it is how frequently a unit deploys or goes to the field/sea.

    sorry for assuming knowledge. i know the military is a giant alphabet soup.
  43. 2GOODHANDS

    2GOODHANDS

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    Deep Impact. Glad to help "chime in".

    Jmcalli is right. Corporate mentaility is pervasive in the Navy, nothing has changed much, except much of the pressure is off the junior officers now - they cannot retain them, and they're bleeding out fast. They take it pretty easy on them, cut them a lot of slack.
    You guys also are getting paid better now, LONG overdue.

    There’s a lot of info here, but I am getting out in a few years, so here goes. Just one mans' opinion. Private practice - forget it.
    Been there, done that. We don't do insurance in the military!

    The Dental Corps cannot maintain our current numbers for manning, especially mid-grade officers, due to this pervasive contempt for those who actually do the work. This will never change, ever. It is the way things are - they know people will volunteer for things that their protected-class, golden-haired Junior officer children will never have to do. And guess who gets the early promotes – not folks like us who actually work on patients.

    They take advantage of those who are bright-eyed and foolish enough to step up to the plate, letting others take the burden of the real work, yet allow the specially groomed LT’s and LCDR "educators" to sidestep the hard billets. Case in point - look at the ones in charge –look at their official photos - they're always light on operational/campaign/deployment ribbons and medals. That’s because they coast on the laurels of others, and take credit for their hard work. Think not? They get promoted because they're connected, and you're not, and never will be.

    The earlier trend was to pass over LCDR's and CDR's due to the attempts by Dental Corps BUMED leaders to strip the Dental Corps of any solidarity - meaning, taking away our promotions, stripping us to the bone, turning us into a sorry appendage attached to the Medical Corps, leaving us threadbare, in hopes that the “Big Plan” to man our billets with civilians would ultimately become a reality, albeit, a failed reality. Yeah, that worked real well, didn't it?

    While promotions are actually more promising for new officers, jmcalli is still right. Only the "Killer collateral duty" will get you promoted early or on time. No matter what you do, not matter how much productivity, no matter how much volunteerism, Deployments, forward deployments to war zones, operational commitments, you will not get promoted, and your "educator" peers (even very poor chairside providers) will always get capped ahead of you. Sorry kids, this comes from someone who actually has gone the full Monty,

    Commitment to the Navy, persistence and loyalty, "taking a bullet" for the Corps will NEVER get you promoted. Not ever. It's a fat, bloated organization that runs on "good old boy" mentality, and if you're not "in", you never, ever will be. They make these decisions from the moment you sign up, and it follows you throughout your career.

    They do not value loyalty, only your ability to organize functions, do a spreadsheet for the coveted "Command Preventive Dentisty Officer" presentation to the XO, organize the annual Dental Corps Ball, run the Infection Control Program, attend the golf luncheons (by invitation only). And you’re not invited to golf with the CO, because while they get these perks, you will be working on patients, because “readiness is abysmal, you have to work harder.” You cannot fast track to O6 unless you drive a desk.
    Even having a specialty will not save you if you don't jump the firey hoops in the proper order. Plenty of retired O5 perio/endo/pros guys out there.

    My suggestion - volunteer for nothing. NOTHING. Never deploy, be an average chairside provider, learn administrative big time, and hang up your handpiece, Abandon dentistry for the most part, and bite, scratch, and kick for that killer collateral duty, and learn a mean golf swing, work on your PowerPoint delivery, catch the eye of the CO/XO and suck deep..... Oh yeah. It's really like that out there. That's all they really care about.

    That’s how they get promoted – and then they tell 90% of us that we’re not working hard enough, press us to deploy overseas, into combat zones, deploy on ships, volunteer for that “special assignment” that will most certainly get us promoted. Right.

    Then they sit their in all their magnificence, marveling at how they manipulated the rest of us to do the dirty work, take credit for all of it, and then pass bones to the rest of us in the form of Promotables and Must Promotes – their special kiss of death to make sure you don’t promote on time, and then give up in frustration after being passed over too many times.

    Senior Dental Officers can have lengthy 30 year careers almost devoid of chairside skills. These “Adminodontists” then retire doing something else, because they've lost all their chairside skill-sets due to sitting behind a desk for thirty years telling the rest of us how to do our jobs, what to volunteer for, and then have the temerity and audacity to sit in front of you, presenting your Fitrep to you, explaining why you won't ever be an "early promote", because they let their younger, golden-haired children of the Dental Corps sit on their asses. and make the rest of the real dentists do the actual work - while they get all the glory.

    Join the Air Force - I agree with AFDDS. They need people, and they don’t have ships (no sea duty kids), and don’t put you into combat zones for 6-7 months at a time, won’t make you change your basic uniforms every three years (which you have to $$$$$pay for all the time), and actually have chairside assistants who, on the average, have at least two
    years of college. Bases, Quarters, buildings and equipment will be newer. They don’t live, breath and die by the asinine “(95% readiness rule).
    And they treat you better.

    We don’t exactly attract the best and the brightest help, but you’ll be expected to “feel their pain”, tolerate stupidity, when after six months of assisting you, they still haven’t figured out that the dental unit needs to be set up before the patients arrive, not after they sit in the chair. And that starting on time is really important with one hour blocks, and that it really does make a difference on streamlining patient care. I could go on and on. Fight for a civilian assistant - they know what they're doing.

    Good luck to all of you.
    OBTW, Try to get that “Top Gun”, JAG, NCIS dreamy nonsense/crap out of your heads. It’s not the real Navy. But then again, it’s more than just ships at sea. Right Deep Impact?
  44. DDS Nuke

    DDS Nuke

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    That was AWESOME! I won't quote your entire post because of its ridiculous length. I've done my time as well and agree with 99.9% of your post (only my time was in the 'nuclear Navy')...regardless, I must take issue with assuming the reason your chair side help is worse than the AF's is due to a lack of some college education...this type of assumption only perpetuates the myth that our enlisted personnel are a bunch of dim-witted buffoons which does nothing but hurt our future junior officers’ ability to lead...enlisted personnel are vital to our success (otherwise you wouldn’t have mentioned them) so I can't let it slip by even if that's not exactly what you meant (but it was implied I think you would agree).

    Anyways, great post! Thanks for your "help"
    :laugh: :xf:
  45. penguinteeth

    penguinteeth Member

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    I agree, I visit Travis periodically for my dental and medical treatment.
    I always see the readiness info in front of the reception desk.
    most of them are above 95%.

    And I check my weekly dental update, I highly doubt about numbers because the readiness number is so low in the Navy.

    Politics is a nasty stuff.
    But one good thing is we are dentists and we can get out if we don't like it anymore.
    Also if you don't like navy you can switch to other branch like airforce after your commitment. They will retain your retirement point and rank.

    :smuggrin:
    Last edited: 12.28.08
  46. dheav005

    dheav005 keepin' it movin'

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    let's be honest here... readiness numbers are easily manipulated. upon arriving at my current command, i was informed that everyone was a class 2, especially if you wanted any time off.

    fortunately, that senior dental officer PCS'd after about a month and since then we have been resetting all of the readiness numbers to a more realistic level.
  47. DrReo

    DrReo "Thread Necromancer"

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    So if one was to describe the typical 4 years after dental school (although it's tuff to pinpoint)... What am I missing here:


    • Navy Officer Indoctrination School
    • 9-12 months of credit. tour
    • Blue side (2 yr ship tour) or Green side (7 month deployment)
    • What typically happens the 4th year?
  48. Parsox

    Parsox

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    B/c the dental community has asp and vsp. If one wanted to switch to the dental community (after getting said degree) I wanted to figure out if time would stack for accepting dental asp/vsp.
    Last edited: 01.06.09
  49. drpapaya

    drpapaya

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    Dentists are treated like crap in the Army.
    We're highly respected in the AF.
    How are we treated in the Navy?
  50. Pro-Dentite

    Pro-Dentite Junior Member

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    Can anybody tell me what you do in your free time while on a ship? Do they have internet access or do you just have to read a book or play cards or something? How often does the ship stop at a port?

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