Ask me (almost) anything

[tenndoc]

can you tell us some really memorable interviews, both good and bad? just for laughs

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[Remedies]

When people say that you should put in your application that you've been part of presentations, does that mean poster presentations that showcase your research? If so, how are these looked upon to an adcom?

Thank you again Lizzy! This thread is an amazing source of information

 

[rkmoto121]

You said earlier that being a professional athlete adds to your Lizzy M score. Does this only apply to being a professional athlete in a school-related sport? If I were a professional athlete in motocross, which is not a team sport and is not affiliated with schools at all would that help?

 

[Medicinewoman85]

Have you ever seen an applicant admitted that had a weak freshman and sophmore year, but they finished strong with a high GPA and did very well on the mcat? If this person wasn't admitted would you recommend that they go to a Post Bac or a SMP to improve their overall GPA?

 

[NeuralNetwork]

LizzyM,

In March, when all of the schools find out about where their accepted applicants have been accepted or waitlisted elsewhere - do the schools also see acceptances that were withdrawn? Is there any other details they can see?

 

[nemo123]

Has there been any unfavorable talk in the admissions office about listing yourself as the contact for an activity?

 

[sepho]

Thanks in advance, LizzyM.

Is there any downside to sending an "update letter" post-interview, without any actual updates (new activities, grades, etc.)? I would simply want to expand on how I would be an excellent fit to that school, beyond what I expressed in my interviews.

I beleive you missed my question. Thank you.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM

I want to know how a school decides to "un-reject" a student after 4 months? I was rejected in Aug by two schools, and in Dec was "un-rejected"... At one school I was interviewed and accepted the same day (I live nearby)...

Any thoughts?

Crazy! I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM - thanks so much for doing this.

I went back to college after 2 years of graduating with an Acconting degree, and received a Biology degree. My cgpa was raised to a 3.55, with a 3.85 sgpa (1 C+ in my first pre-req, Chem1).

My question is, how do adcoms view the first degree (Accounting) if it had a sprinkle of C's, as well as numerous withdrawals, all due to either a shift in interest (withdrew from science classes to complete my accounting degree my last semester in college) or a family death? It isn't the overall gpa that worries me, but the specific contents.

Some schools understand that students take a meandering path to medical school. Your PS should address how you determined that you wanted a career in medicine and how you tested that interest (through volunteerism, employment and/or shadowing). In the course of telling your story, you can explain how you chose accounting and how you determined that it wasn't right for you.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm a non-trad that will have been a year out of school before applying and am married. In terms of interviews, I feel comfortable answering any question about whether my focus would be affected by family or anything like that, but my wife is also applying at the same time as me. I'm uncertain how to answer if asked point-blank in an interview whether her acceptance/denial would affect my acceptance decision. I don't plan to bring it up but also don't want to lie, and her applying could certainly arise in the course of conversation.

Unless you bring it up, no one will know that your wife is also applying. In fact, except for seeing a ring, I would not know that someone I'm interviewing has a spouse.

Of course, a school expects that a couple will want to attend the same school or two schools in geographic proximity. A school can work that to its advantage if it really wants one of you by inviting the other for interview.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Liz,

Thank you so much for doing this. I have learned a lot from reading your responses and I just had a few questions of my own if you wouldn't mind answering:

1) For competitive medical schools (Top 15's) how important is it that you take classes beyond the normal prereqs? For example, taking classes such as genetics, physiology, biochem, etc.

I seldom see the taking of those courses being mentioned as expected or as a plus. Not sure what to make of that.

2) Does the committee ever factor in how difficult a semester was by looking at the classes taken? For example, maxing credits in heavy sciences in a semester compared to maxing credits in psych classes which are assumed by college students to be a lot easier.

For the most part, no. We do look at the number of credits taken per academic year and we can see what proportion of those credits were BCPM (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math) and which were AO (all other)

3) I see that you really stressed the importance of research. How important is it to do research over the summer if I've only been doing research in school ever since I was a freshman? Does it also matter that I've only stuck to one lab and that I've never achieved a breakthrough in lab?

As long as you've gone beyond scut work and housekeeping and had a shot at hypothesis testing, you're good.

4) Does the committee expect students to do clinical volunteering during the school year? I have only clinically volunteered during the summers because I don't think I can handle it on top of the classes I take and my other e/c's (ex: involvement in church, tutor in bio, research)

We look for people who find time to do something other than study during the school year. It looks like you've found several things. That's cool. Doing clinical volunteering in the summer is fine.

 

[LizzyM]

can you tell us some really memorable interviews, both good and bad? just for laughs

There's a huge old thread on that topic. I've contributed.

 

[LizzyM]

Has there been any unfavorable talk in the admissions office about listing yourself as the contact for an activity?

No

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,

In March, when all of the schools find out about where their accepted applicants have been accepted or waitlisted elsewhere - do the schools also see acceptances that were withdrawn? Is there any other details they can see?

I have no idea; I'm not privy to that data.

 

[LizzyM]

Have you ever seen an applicant admitted that had a weak freshman and sophmore year, but they finished strong with a high GPA and did very well on the mcat?

yes

If this person wasn't admitted would you recommend that they go to a Post Bac or a SMP to improve their overall GPA?

I generally recommend undergraduate classes such as genetics, cell biology, biochemistry, statistics and other advanced level science classes taken as a student at large.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks in advance, LizzyM.

Is there any downside to sending an "update letter" post-interview, without any actual updates (new activities, grades, etc.)? I would simply want to expand on how I would be an excellent fit to that school, beyond what I expressed in my interviews.

No downside really. It is possible that no one will read it.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

Hi LizzyM, i've been lurking parts of this thread and really appreciate all of your advice.

I hope this was not already asked, but if you saw a high cumulative MCAT, but a low verbal how would you view it?
Or more importantly, if you saw a low verbal what would be the best ways to make up for it, or show that the score isn't representative of your abilities on that section?..aside from retaking the test of course.
Can a decent writing score somewhat compensate?
I understand this varies person to person, but I'd like to get your perspective.

 

[LizzyM]

You said earlier that being a professional athlete adds to your Lizzy M score. Does this only apply to being a professional athlete in a school-related sport? If I were a professional athlete in motocross, which is not a team sport and is not affiliated with schools at all would that help?

Well, figure skating is not a school related sport but I've heard of at least one professional figure skater who went on to a career in medicine.

Motocross is not something I'm familiar with but that's not saying much.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM, i've been lurking parts of this thread and really appreciate all of your advice.

I hope this was not already asked, but if you saw a high cumulative MCAT, but a low verbal how would you view it?
Or more importantly, if you saw a low verbal what would be the best ways to make up for it, or show that the score isn't representative of your abilities on that section?..aside from retaking the test of course.
Can a decent writing score somewhat compensate?
I understand this varies person to person, but I'd like to get your perspective.

We tend to look at total MCAT because we've been told that it is a better predictor of success than any subscore. That said, a very low score will concern some adcom members. Usually, we'll wonder why the person didn't retake. We'll also look for clues that the person is not a native speaker of English and/or was not educated k-12 in an English speaking place.

A decent writing score does not compensate.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

We tend to look at total gpa because we've been told that it is a better predictor of success than any subscore. That said, a very low score will concern some adcom members. Usually, we'll wonder why the person didn't retake. We'll also look for clues that the person is not a native speaker of English and/or was not educated k-12 in an English speaking place.

A decent writing score does not compensate.

Thanks LizzyM, if you don't mind me asking what would a very low score be? I know some schools set the threshold to 7, others at 8 or 9.

I got a 13 BS/8 VR/13 PS break down, I don't know if this would raise alarms.

 

[muhali3]

We tend to look at total gpa because we've been told that it is a better predictor of success than any subscore. That said, a very low score will concern some adcom members. Usually, we'll wonder why the person didn't retake. We'll also look for clues that the person is not a native speaker of English and/or was not educated k-12 in an English speaking place.

A decent writing score does not compensate.

total gpa or total mcat? I am in the same situation as zeppelin with my 14/9/13. I would have loved a 12/11/13 or 13/10/13, but the sub-10 verbal score really bothers me.

 

[LizzyM]

total gpa or total mcat? I am in the same situation as zeppelin with my 14/9/13. I would have loved a 12/11/13 or 13/10/13, but the sub-10 verbal score really bothers me.

My mistake: I meant to say total MCAT.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks LizzyM, if you don't mind me asking what would a very low score be? I know some schools set the threshold to 7, others at 8 or 9.

I usually look at the percentile. I get worried with percentiles <50th

 

[zeppelinpage4]

I usually look at the percentile. I get worried with percentiles <50th

Thanks for the insight LizzyM. I might be looking at a retake, I was one point from 50th percentile.

 

[Jarudy]

What is the advantage of an upper tier med school if the final goal is to be a practicing physician? There was a thread a while back stating the average step scores compared to average matriculant MCAT score with some surprising results for certain schools. What makes your school better for the price paid vs in-state "affordable"?

 

[LizzyM]

What is the advantage of an upper tier med school if the final goal is to be a practicing physician? There was a thread a while back stating the average step scores compared to average matriculant MCAT score with some surprising results for certain schools. What makes your school better for the price paid vs in-state "affordable"?

If your goal is practicing medicine, you don't need a top tier school. That said, if you can't get into a state-funded school, you might find a private school is a reasonable alternative.

 

[smarts1]

Well, figure skating is not a school related sport but I've heard of at least one professional figure skater who went on to a career in medicine.

Motocross is not something I'm familiar with but that's not saying much.

Debi Thomas! 1988 Olympic Bronze Medalist. FTW. Though, she had to take a couple years off of undergrad to increase her training regimen for the Olympics. And she's an orthopedic surgeon today.

My respect for you went up 100 fold LizzyM (although I already respected you a ton).

 

[EnergyDrink]

I've become addicted to this thread!


I have some pretty low grades in my pre-reqs, nothing lower than a C, but there are a few Cs. I have a 12-10-10 MCAT. I'm applying early this cycle. Do you recommend that I retake some of the pre-requisites, maybe during the summer and fall during this app cycle, then update? Money and Debt is starting to become an issue, so would it be okay to take these at a community college? I'm looking at Middle/Lower 50% schools.

Thanks again!

Edit: I'm a non-trad, with GPA <3.0 my Freshman/Sophomore years but GPA >3.5 my Junior/Senior years. I have >3.9 in my M.S. at a medical school.

 

[IlDestriero]

I'm sorry, I am trying to get into a top-tier research school and just wanted your honest opinion on where my research experience ranked in applicants you've seen in the past...

"I have 3 first author publications with a top 10 medical university in two high impact surgical journals, 3 full plenary session oral presentations at national meetings and 2 mini oral presentations at regional meetings. Additionally, I am on the advisory committee of a sponsored multi-institutional (20+) prospective randomized trial that I wrote the protocol for. I am also working on a few retrospective studies."

I know the process is super competitive especially at programs such as yours, so I value your opinion.

You sound like you may be more accomplished than I am, and I've been on the faculty at two of the medical schools that you're trying to get into.
Something tells me you'll be fine. But, try not to be too arrogant at the interview. Arrogance is a big negative. The next coming of Jesus got blackballed for a faculty job with us last year because 1/3 the people he/she interviewed with called him/her arrogant and/or condescending and recommended against offering them a job. Confident and humble, that's a winning combination.

 

[LizzyM]

I've become addicted to this thread!


I have some pretty low grades in my pre-reqs, nothing lower than a C, but there are a few Cs. I have a 12-10-10 MCAT. I'm applying early this cycle. Do you recommend that I retake some of the pre-requisites, maybe during the summer and fall during this app cycle, then update? Money and Debt is starting to become an issue, so would it be okay to take these at a community college? I'm looking at Middle/Lower 50% schools.

Thanks again!

Edit: I'm a non-trad, with GPA <3.0 my Freshman/Sophomore years but GPA >3.5 my Junior/Senior years. I have >3.9 in my M.S. at a medical school.

sorry, this is too close to "what are my chances". Maybe you should post it over there. I've got no experience with middle-lower50% schools.

 

[polyploidy516]

Dear LizzyM,

thank you so much for creating this informative thread; it has really elucidated alot of questions that I had on my application.

I would really like to know though how adcoms at top tiers generally view students who performed poorly in some prereqs (as in C to c+ grades due to extenuating circumstances such as working to provide for ill parent, health issues, etc) but, instead of retaking, compensated by taking upper division sciences. Will the applicant still be hurt by these lower prereq grades (ex. Bio or orgo) even if the upper division classes were high (A-/A) as this shows mastery of the prereq material despite the grade (ex a C in orgo but A's in Biochem, etc) and the student has sufficient explanations for these lower grades? Also, generally at top tiers, what minimum gpa do you feel is necessary to be considered provided all the other parts of your application are great (Recs, mcat, etc); would a 3.4 be too low?

Additionally, how do adcoms generally view fellowships/scholarships to do independent research after the student submits their amcas? For ex, if a student wins a fulbright, but does not start the project until Nov after submission, could he still list that on his application that he won the fulbright/is currently doing the activity; or would it be better if they said if they were in the process of doing the activity?

Thank you once again for your time! I hope you are enjoying your holidays/am grateful to you!

regards,
polyploidy516

 

[LizzyM]

Dear LizzyM,

thank you so much for creating this informative thread; it has really elucidated alot of questions that I had on my application.

I would really like to know though how adcoms at top tiers generally view students who performed poorly in some prereqs (as in C to c+ grades due to extenuating circumstances such as working to provide for ill parent, health issues, etc) but, instead of retaking, compensated by taking upper division sciences. Will the applicant still be hurt by these lower prereq grades (ex. Bio or orgo) even if the upper division classes were high (A-/A) as this shows mastery of the prereq material despite the grade (ex a C in orgo but A's in Biochem, etc) and the student has sufficient explanations for these lower grades?

yes.

Also, generally at top tiers, what minimum gpa do you feel is necessary to be considered provided all the other parts of your application are great (Recs, mcat, etc); would a 3.4 be too low?

I'd like to see at least a 3.6. A 3.4 is going to raise eyebrows.

Additionally, how do adcoms generally view fellowships/scholarships to do independent research after the student submits their amcas? For ex, if a student wins a fulbright, but does not start the project until Nov after submission, could he still list that on his application that he won the fulbright/is currently doing the activity; or would it be better if they said if they were in the process of doing the activity?

If you receive a Fulbright, etc, submit an update to your file. You may also want to ask if the school will consider granting a deferral if you are offered admission in that, if you accept the fellowship, you won't be starting med school some 9 months later. Some schools might suggest that you withdraw & reapply eek but most will like the idea of a prestigious fellowship winner at their school and will give you a deferral.

If you have won a fellowship that will take you out of the country during the application cycle, you should communicate that to the schools with some information about when you will be in the country for interviews. The first 2 weeks of December are usually optimal ... early November coincides with the AAMC annual meeting and the end of November is Thanksgiving. The end of December is not good as most schools are on break. Too early and you run the risk of school not yet reviewing your application; too late and you will be missing out on decisions made by rolling admission schools.

 

[polyploidy516]

I really appreciate your response/thank you once again for everything.

My one final question is at top tier schools, how much do a good mcat (as in 38 plus) and excellent extracurriculars compensate for a lower gpa (between 3.4-3.5 but with a strong upward trend last 2 years) that was due to extenuating circumstances (health, poverty, etc)? Additionally, how should an applicant with this situation approach their essays; should the applicant be very detailed (as in specific issues/the obstacle) about it?

Your help would be grateful .thank you once again

 

[HG1HH217]

Thanks for hosting this, Lizzy! Your answers have been very helpful.

I have only a few questions for you:

1. As far as I know, when describing language ability on the AMCAS it's either 'fluent' or nothing. Though I would not describe myself as fluent in Spanish, my skills in the language are very highly developed after years of study and practice. Should I list my ability in the langauge alongside a relevant EC as 'high proficiency' in Spanish and would this affect my chances at admission? Similarly, by the time I have applied I will have spent one year in a country where I had to learn the mother tongue from scratch (additionally in a region where very few people speak English). I suspect by the time I finish I will have obtained a moderate level of proficiency in the language. Worth mentioning?

2. Though I have been interested in medicine since early childhood, upon matriculating to college I became enamored with the endless possibilities and interests I could develop there. For a while I thought pursuing medicine was to me as pursuing marriage from a high school romance--naive without having allowed myself to experience the greater world--and I began to engage in many other different passions. I did not realize until my second semester of senior year, rather serendipitiously, that I wanted to be a doctor again for a whole new flock of reasons. I began to volunteer to confirm this passion over the summer, rushed into an MCAT (where I performed well), and then flew off to a foreign country with weekly, and limited, volunteering stints at a local rural hospital. Should I be worried that by the time of application I will only have clinical experience for ~1.5 years? Should I address my deviation from medical interests during college and why I returned to medical aspirations? All this in the context of applications to top universities.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the time you've put into this thread.

 

[estradiol9]

1.) Is there more weight placed on MCAT vs. GPA? For example, is an individual with a 3.75 & 37 more favorable than someone with a 3.95 & 34 if all else is the same?

2.) How does anybody know what schools grade inflate? Are Rutgers or NJIT known for grade inflation?

3.) Is there any preference as to what type of research experience students have? I have psychology research experience and now have an opportunity to be involved in clinical research but it's much more "grunt work". With psychology research I was more involved in the design of our experiments, etc and had much more responsibility.

 

[felixfelicis]

I am a freshman at an Ivy with demanding courses. Freshman fall, my MCBP courses were multivariable calc, orgo I, and orgo lab I. This spring, I am taking orgo II and lab for sure (for MCBPs), but am still deciding whether to take a bio class along with them (in the place of a humanities course I'm interested in taking). My decision is up to whether my course load would look too easy if I didn't take that bio course. Would just taking orgo w/ lab for MCBPs be okay? How many MCBP's should one take (excluding labs) per semester to be competitive for top medical schools? (I will be doubling sciences sophomore year and beyond.)

Secondly, what course grades do you like to see completed before applications are submitted? Should all prereqs be completed? Does it look better to have completed them and have succeeded other higher div. science courses before submission?

Thirdly, which years should the LORs ideally be from? (freshman vs. soph vs. junior)

 

[LizzyM]

I really appreciate your response/thank you once again for everything.

My one final question is at top tier schools, how much do a good mcat (as in 38 plus) and excellent extracurriculars compensate for a lower gpa (between 3.4-3.5 but with a strong upward trend last 2 years) that was due to extenuating circumstances (health, poverty, etc)? Additionally, how should an applicant with this situation approach their essays; should the applicant be very detailed (as in specific issues/the obstacle) about it?

The LizzyM score (gpa*10+MCAT) will help you compare your stats to the average stats for the schools you are targeting. Most of the top tier schools have LizzyM scores of 72 to 76, if I recall correctly.

Excellent extracurriculars almost never compensate for a poor gpa (the exceptions might be military leadership, exceptional athletic accomplishment, or a non-traditional path with a post-bac years after undergrad).

Furthermore, an analysis of LizzyM scores and admissions statistics indicates that gpa is more important than MCAT in the admissions process.

mdapplicants.com can give you some useful information about where people from your state with stats like yours have interviewed and been admitted.

In terms of hardships, it is helpful if an advisor or instructor can include this in a LOR (someone who knew what was happening as it was unfolding ). In addition, you can self-identify as disadvantaged if the hardships began before you were 18. Some secondary applications will have a spot for you to describe difficulties or challenges that you have faced. If it was instrumental in your decision to apply to medical school, it could be incorporated into your AMCAS personal statement.

 

[latrala2300]

Hi LizzyM,

Thanks for doing this! What are your thoughts about MD/MPH programs?

 

[alexrgross]

I am going into my back-up options as planned, both looking at post-baccs and SMPs.

I have already completed a post-bacc though as an academic enhancer/pre-requisite finish.

My instinct tells me to move into an SMP.

Would more post-bacc, or an SMP, be more attractive to adcoms, when reading my app - in case I need to reapply (this is my first cycle)? Check out my MDapps for stats.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for hosting this, Lizzy! Your answers have been very helpful.

I have only a few questions for you:

1. As far as I know, when describing language ability on the AMCAS it's either 'fluent' or nothing. Though I would not describe myself as fluent in Spanish, my skills in the language are very highly developed after years of study and practice. Should I list my ability in the langauge alongside a relevant EC as 'high proficiency' in Spanish and would this affect my chances at admission? Similarly, by the time I have applied I will have spent one year in a country where I had to learn the mother tongue from scratch (additionally in a region where very few people speak English). I suspect by the time I finish I will have obtained a moderate level of proficiency in the language. Worth mentioning?

Most of the time when we want to know if an applicant speaks a language other than English, we go to that item on the AMCAS and we don't dig into the ECs.

Language proficiency is most important if it is a language used by some (many) non-English speaking people in the medical school's immediate area. You might acquire proficiency in Quechua or Aymara but it is unlikely to impress a med school committee in the US.

2. Though I have been interested in medicine since early childhood, upon matriculating to college I became enamored with the endless possibilities and interests I could develop there. For a while I thought pursuing medicine was to me as pursuing marriage from a high school romance--naive without having allowed myself to experience the greater world--and I began to engage in many other different passions. I did not realize until my second semester of senior year, rather serendipitiously, that I wanted to be a doctor again for a whole new flock of reasons. I began to volunteer to confirm this passion over the summer, rushed into an MCAT (where I performed well), and then flew off to a foreign country with weekly, and limited, volunteering stints at a local rural hospital. Should I be worried that by the time of application I will only have clinical experience for ~1.5 years? Should I address my deviation from medical interests during college and why I returned to medical aspirations? All this in the context of applications to top universities.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the time you've put into this thread.

Your story is not unusual. You should weave it into your PS which describes why you have chosen medicine and how you have tested your interest in it.

 

[Okhadwork]

I graduated with two undergrad engineering degrees from a nationally ranked university with a gpa of about 3.1. My premed classes (orgos, bios, chems) i did not do so good. If i go to a university near me that isnt as well regarded but is still a university and major in something easier like psychology or sociology and just retake all the premed classes and get a 3.9 or 4.0 what do you think MD schools would think of that especially if i got all A's in the science core classes?

 

[LizzyM]

1.) Is there more weight placed on MCAT vs. GPA? For example, is an individual with a 3.75 & 37 more favorable than someone with a 3.95 & 34 if all else is the same?

Some analysis done by people here on the pre-allo forum suggests that more weight is placed on the gpa. This confirms what I've heard anecdotally this year from some high ranking members of my adcom.

2.) How does anybody know what schools grade inflate? Are Rutgers or NJIT known for grade inflation?

If a school gets a large number of students from a school, it can see the range of gpa's for that school and get an idea if there is little to no grade inflation. Some pre-med advisor letters will put an applicant's gpa in context in any of a number of ways that will suggest that the student is above, equal to, or below the average of other pre-meds at that school. If a student has a 3.85 and is in the 60-69th percentile among pre-meds at that school, (meaning that 30% of premeds have >3.85) we might suspect that there is some grade inflation at that school.

I'm not familiar wiht Rurtgers & NJIT in that regard.

3.) Is there any preference as to what type of research experience students have? I have psychology research experience and now have an opportunity to be involved in clinical research but it's much more "grunt work". With psychology research I was more involved in the design of our experiments, etc and had much more responsibility.

Research where you get to design your own experiments and have more responsibility are always better, regardless of the discipline in which the research is being conducted.

 

[LizzyM]

I am a freshman at an Ivy with demanding courses. Freshman fall, my MCBP courses were multivariable calc, orgo I, and orgo lab I. This spring, I am taking orgo II and lab for sure (for MCBPs), but am still deciding whether to take a bio class along with them (in the place of a humanities course I'm interested in taking). My decision is up to whether my course load would look too easy if I didn't take that bio course. Would just taking orgo w/ lab for MCBPs be okay? How many MCBP's should one take (excluding labs) per semester to be competitive for top medical schools? (I will be doubling sciences sophomore year and beyond.)

Freshman orgo is often the kiss of death for a gpa... I hope you are the exception to the rule. If a course with a lab is 4 credits, I like to see at least 12 credits of science per year. Some adcom members like to see a heavy course load of BCPM, others want to see a varied course of study (not all science) so don't overlook those humanities courses that interest you.

Secondly, what course grades do you like to see completed before applications are submitted? Should all prereqs be completed? Does it look better to have completed them and have succeeded other higher div. science courses before submission?

One of my favorite applicants of all time had not taken Bio II before applying! That didn't stop him from being admitted to at least three top 10 schools. That is highly unusual. Most people take all the pre-reqs before taking the MCAT and of course, you must take the MCAT before your application is considered complete. As for upper level courses, some people, particularly science majors, will have taken those courses, but some others will have not and they all seem to be taken seriously as applicants.

Thirdly, which years should the LORs ideally be from? (freshman vs. soph vs. junior)

They should be recent (not more than a year old, ideally, unless you are a reapplicant who is re-using the letters) and the longer the person has known you in an academic/professional context, the better. It is also best to choose people who taught relatively small classes and who had an opportunity to hear you speak in class or at office hours. With the non-science letter, go for someone who is familiar with your skills in written English and/or your oral presentation skills as it relates to synthesis of complex information. Fortunate for you, the Ivies seem to offer a number of small seminar-style classes with the opportunity to become well known to the professor. If you can spend time with the professor outside of classroom settings (chat them up at a concert intermission or at a master's tea), all the better.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

Thanks for doing this! What are your thoughts about MD/MPH programs?

With at least 85 medical schools offering this option, there must be a demand for this added credential.

https://www.aamc.org/students/mdmph/

I thnk that at most schools, you get admitted to the MD program and then apply for the MPH.

 

[LizzyM]

I am going into my back-up options as planned, both looking at post-baccs and SMPs.

I have already completed a post-bacc though as an academic enhancer/pre-requisite finish.

My instinct tells me to move into an SMP.

Would more post-bacc, or an SMP, be more attractive to adcoms, when reading my app - in case I need to reapply (this is my first cycle)? Check out my MDapps for stats.

This is skating perilously close to "what are my chances". That said, I feel that a SMP should always be the last option. They are expensive and doing poorly in one will kill your chances forever. To add insult to injury, they have no value in the job market so if you don't use it as a stepping stone to medical school, you've got nothing to show for your effort.

Try the "what are my chances" forum. I'd also suggest exploring other health professions to see if you might fine professional fulfillment in something other than allopathic medicine.

 

[LizzyM]

I graduated with two undergrad engineering degrees from a nationally ranked university with a gpa of about 3.1. My premed classes (orgos, bios, chems) i did not do so good. If i go to a university near me that isnt as well regarded but is still a university and major in something easier like psychology or sociology and just retake all the premed classes and get a 3.9 or 4.0 what do you think MD schools would think of that especially if i got all A's in the science core classes?

I've never seen this done so I really haven't formed an opinion. I doubt it would go over well at a top tier school. You may be more well received at DO schools with that strategy as they grade replace.

Check with the "what are my chances" forum.

 

[IlDestriero]

With at least 85 medical schools offering this option, there must be a demand for this added credential.

https://www.aamc.org/students/mdmph/

I thnk that at most schools, you get admitted to the MD program and then apply for the MPH.

I suspect that much of the impetus for schools offering that degree involves the additional tuition. However I tend to be a bit cynical. MD/MBA is another. You don't need an MBA if you plan to practice medicine, at least initially. Maybe 10+ years after residency when you're climbing the ladder to senior admin status within your department/hospital. That's what an executive MBA is for, as well as the Masters in Medical Management.
Unless you're planning a career in public health, and not just the limited public health involved in primary care, I would save my money if I were you.

 

[LizzyM]

I suspect that much of the impetus for schools offering that degree involves the additional tuition. However I tend to be a bit cynical. MD/MBA is another. You don't need an MBA if you plan to practice medicine, at least initially. Maybe 10+ years after residency when you're climbing the ladder to senior admin status within your department/hospital. That's what an executive MBA is for, as well as the Masters in Medical Management.
Unless you're planning a career in public health, and not just the limited public health involved in primary care, I would save my money if I were you.

The data analysis and study design skills taught in an MPH program are useful in residency. On the other hand, I strongly feel that MBA training should not be attempted unless one has at least 5-7 years of management experience. That would suggest that physicians should not seek an MBA until they are almost a decade or more out of medical school.

 

[osprey099]

Most common is a J curve with the sophomore year lower than freshman year and junior year higher than freshman year. O-chem is often the culprit in that second year gpa.

What if an applicant has this J curve but had an A in orgo but Plenty of B's in the other non-BCPM classes sophomore year? Is the J curve a bad sign?

 

[LizzyM]

What if an applicant has this J curve but had an A in orgo but Plenty of B's in the other non-BCPM classes sophomore year? Is the J curve a bad sign?

A J curve is completely normal, like the slight dip in body weight seen in newborns in the first week after birth. As with newborns, the real concern comes when it doesn't reverse course and go back up and continue to climb with time.