AUA - American University of Antigua, thoughts?

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IanMcStruthers

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Any experiences or thoughts on this school? Worth the money to go here for MD? Thanks
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Again, bro, I would carefully consider the validity of any alternate, heavily-moderated (and sponsored) discussion about any Caribbean school on that particular forum.

If you can't get a license to practice (i.e., independently and without restriction [that is, not just a training license]) in all 50 states when you are done (i.e., finished residency and ready to practice), I would think twice. You never know just exactly where life is going to take you 7-10 years from now...

-Skip
 
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Skip Intro said:
Again, bro, I would carefully consider the validity of any alternate, heavily-moderated (and sponsored) discussion about any Caribbean school on that particular forum.

If you can't get a license to practice (i.e., independently and without restriction [that is, not just a training license]) in all 50 states when you are done (i.e., finished residency and ready to practice), I would think twice. You never know just exactly where life is going to take you 7-10 years from now...

-Skip
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Didn't they recently get California approval?
 
Skip Intro said:
Again, bro, I would carefully consider the validity of any alternate, heavily-moderated (and sponsored) discussion about any Caribbean school on that particular forum.

If you can't get a license to practice (i.e., independently and without restriction [that is, not just a training license]) in all 50 states when you are done (i.e., finished residency and ready to practice), I would think twice. You never know just exactly where life is going to take you 7-10 years from now...

-Skip
Click to expand...

Hi Skip, can you elaborate more on the license to practice part? How is AUA different from Ross or AUC, for example?

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Skip's concern is that not all international schools are recognized by all states. Hence, it's possible you could go to AUA, graduate, complete a US residency, and then find that you can't get a license in the state you want.

In general, the two most restrictive states are Cali and Texas. Both have lists of approved schools. By report (here on SDN), several other states follow the Cali list - although I'm not certain whether this is true or not.

The Cali list is here: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_recognized.html
The Cali DISAPPROVED list is here: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_unapproved.html

The texas list is here: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/professionals/physicians/applicants/education.php (This site has all of the rule on it, the list is a link)

I believe the Cali list is very "straightforward" -- if your school is not on the list, you don't get a license. End of story.

The TX list is much more complicated. According to their website, if you're ABMS board certified, then it doesn't matter at all what school you went to. If not, then if your school is not on the list, you need to complete a bunch of extra paperwork to prove that your school was equivalent to a TX medical school.

Interestingly, AUA is on the Cali list (added in 2007), but not on the Texas list.

Of note, remember that if your school comes off the list before you graduate, you're out of luck. On the flip side, if your school is added to the list the day before you graduate, you're good to go.
 
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Any recent discussion on AUA for someone looking to possibly start in feb 2013
 
rogueleadr said:
Hi Skip, can you elaborate more on the license to practice part? How is AUA different from Ross or AUC, for example?
Click to expand...

aProgDirector said:
Skip's concern is that not all international schools are recognized by all states. Hence, it's possible you could go to AUA, graduate, complete a US residency, and then find that you can't get a license in the state you want.

In general, the two most restrictive states are Cali and Texas. Both have lists of approved schools. By report (here on SDN), several other states follow the Cali list - although I'm not certain whether this is true or not.

The Cali list is here: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_recognized.html
The Cali DISAPPROVED list is here: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_unapproved.html

The texas list is here: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/professionals/physicians/applicants/education.php (This site has all of the rule on it, the list is a link)

I believe the Cali list is very "straightforward" -- if your school is not on the list, you don't get a license. End of story.

The TX list is much more complicated. According to their website, if you're ABMS board certified, then it doesn't matter at all what school you went to. If not, then if your school is not on the list, you need to complete a bunch of extra paperwork to prove that your school was equivalent to a TX medical school.

Interestingly, AUA is on the Cali list (added in 2007), but not on the Texas list.

Of note, remember that if your school comes off the list before you graduate, you're out of luck. On the flip side, if your school is added to the list the day before you graduate, you're good to go.
Click to expand...

To answer rogueleadr first, my concern is that information on the "other" forum is heavily moderated, the school's listed there sponsor each sub-forum, and you may therefore not get the most accurate information about a particular school there.

I otherwise agree with everything else that aProgDirector said. Schools can, theoretically, get added - or fall off - a particular approval list for a state. Therefore, it is always best (especially since you are making a substantial investment in time and treasure) to go with a school that has an established track record, has a list of graduates that have successfully navigated their way into an ACGME/ABMS accredited residency, and who will have little trouble getting (a) board-certified and (b) an independent license to practice medicine in whichever state they want.

-Skip
 
FutureMDiA said:
What is the failing rate in AUA?
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Probably through the roof. As I'm sure you know they accept their class without having them sit for the MCAT, they state they believe that a students score on the MCAT have no bearing on whether or not they can be a successful physician- I actually agree with that. Guess what they're leaving out though? How the MCAT in MOST cases has a very strong correlation to how students fare on their Step exams.
 
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KyleV said:
Probably through the roof. As I'm sure you know they accept their class without having them sit for the MCAT, they state they believe that a students score on the MCAT have no bearing on whether or not they can be a successful physician- I actually agree with that. Guess what they're leaving out though? How the MCAT in MOST cases has a very strong correlation to how students fare on their Step exams.
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True. Btw do you know how the education quality is in that school? I know they take people without MCAT. Do students Fail in that school by AUA teaching style etc.. or is it that the take dumb students so most of them will of course fail.
 
FutureMDiA said:
True. Btw do you know how the education quality is in that school? I know they take people without MCAT. Do students Fail in that school by AUA teaching style etc.. or is it that the take dumb students so most of them will of course fail.
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Well, a number of their students still manage to get through the program, pass Steps, and get residencies, so I think it's fair to say that AUA at least provides sufficient teaching. Students fail out for lots of reasons, though I think the fact that they don't require the MCAT to be pretty telling. If they were interested in students getting through the program successfully, they should have some objective standard to gauge their incoming students. Using course grades or GPA to compare undergraduate programs is an exercise in futility and provides precisely zero insight into how successful a medical student will be.
 
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Step Exams are self-study exams. If you blame a school for your failure, then I am sure it's you and not the school. I agree there are crappy schools that don't provide the right information, but there are numerous in states medical students who don't pass the exams. So what does that tell you? Is it you or is it the school you are trying to blame?
 
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mchlucky1 said:
Step Exams are self-study exams. If you blame a school for your failure, then I am sure it's you and not the school. I agree there are crappy schools that don't provide the right information, but there are numerous in states medical students who don't pass the exams. So what does that tell you? Is it you or is it the school you are trying to blame?
Click to expand...

Why do some schools have high percentage of step exams passing rate than other schools?
 
aProgDirector said:
Skip's concern is that not all international schools are recognized by all states. Hence, it's possible you could go to AUA, graduate, complete a US residency, and then find that you can't get a license in the state you want.

In general, the two most restrictive states are Cali and Texas. Both have lists of approved schools. By report (here on SDN), several other states follow the Cali list - although I'm not certain whether this is true or not.

The Cali list is here: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_recognized.html
The Cali DISAPPROVED list is here: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_unapproved.html

The texas list is here: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/professionals/physicians/applicants/education.php (This site has all of the rule on it, the list is a link)

I believe the Cali list is very "straightforward" -- if your school is not on the list, you don't get a license. End of story.

The TX list is much more complicated. According to their website, if you're ABMS board certified, then it doesn't matter at all what school you went to. If not, then if your school is not on the list, you need to complete a bunch of extra paperwork to prove that your school was equivalent to a TX medical school.

Interestingly, AUA is on the Cali list (added in 2007), but not on the Texas list.

Of note, remember that if your school comes off the list before you graduate, you're out of luck. On the flip side, if your school is added to the list the day before you graduate, you're good to go.
Click to expand...
Useful list, but California did add an exception in 2013: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=BPC&sectionNum=2135.7

Now any one that actually gets licensed, has a board certification, and is in good standing for 10-12 in another state (length depends on school), can practice. Its not much, but if you are a caribbean grad, its something.
 
Anyone , attending AUA this fall?
 
AUA graduates are eligible for residency and licensure in all 50 US States. Most states offer recognition or approval through their state medical board or department of education. Individual states do not accredit international medical schools. AUA is regionally accredited by CAAM-HP the accrediting body in the Caribbean independently recognized as equivalent to LCME accreditation which will be important in 2023 when the new ECFMG rules go into affect.
 
AUA_Danielle said:
AUA graduates are eligible for residency and licensure in all 50 US States. Most states offer recognition or approval through their state medical board or department of education. Individual states do not accredit international medical schools. AUA is regionally accredited by CAAM-HP the accrediting body in the Caribbean independently recognized as equivalent to LCME accreditation which will be important in 2023 when the new ECFMG rules go into affect.
Click to expand...

My understanding was that AUA is currently ineligible for licensing in Kansas due to a state requirement that the medical school have existed for >15 years. This may have changed.
 
AUA_Danielle said:
AUA graduates are eligible for residency and licensure in all 50 US States. Most states offer recognition or approval through their state medical board or department of education. Individual states do not accredit international medical schools. AUA is regionally accredited by CAAM-HP the accrediting body in the Caribbean independently recognized as equivalent to LCME accreditation which will be important in 2023 when the new ECFMG rules go into affect.
Click to expand...
Hi, are you currently in AUA? Please, I would like to talk to someone currently attending the school. Thanks.
 
I'm sorry I had 10 years for Kansas I was mistaken B.Ben is correct. Graduates may obtain residency and licensure in Kansas but only after completing a 3 year residency in another state first. This will be a non-issue for new students approaching graduation 2019 and later.
 
Alutaa said:
Hi, are you currently in AUA? Please, I would like to talk to someone currently attending the school. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I'm AUA staff, sorry. I can get you in touch with our alumni coordinator - message me here.
 
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They had someone matched into neurosurgery at Brown. Sure, he's a special kind, but it is possible to match from AUA (more likely primary care though).
 
Someone mentioned the MCAT. I agree it is a good predictor of success in medical school, especially with the new MCAT. However, I don't think it is a good predictor of failure if someone has a low score.

Medical students spend 2 years studying just medicine. So it is like a 2-year prep for the Step. But people studying for the MCAT also study other subjects and also have to work and have other obligations. Medical students are unemployed and have much more time to study. The essential knowledge obtained and time to study for each test are not comparable. So a low MCAT score does not mean the person is too stupid to study medicine. There is a reason why half the pre-requisite courses for med school are freshman level science courses - it is not difficult like rocket science.

I took the new MCAT and some questions were really identifying the terms, and questions in physics and chemistry required just simple calculations. Some questions in biochemistry were very hard though, that required much critical thinking and knowledge of chemical structures. But some questions asked how much a person knows, not how smart he is. Like there was a question about cAMP. If I didn't know what the heck that was, how was I supposed to answer it?

OP, just do your thang and hope for the best.
 
Euclid said:
They had someone matched into neurosurgery at Brown. Sure, he's a special kind, but it is possible to match from AUA (more likely primary care though).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I heard this too. Seems legit. Lot less effort involved.

-Skip
 
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Skip Intro said:
Yeah, I heard this too. Seems legit. Lot less effort involved.

-Skip
Click to expand...

So Brown just decided to randomly pick some dude from the Caribbean and put him into neurosurgery? What medical school did you attend? Are you a neurosurgeon too? I'm curious if you have insights on this because I would apply to Brown later if they work like a lottery. I am interested in primary care though, so hopefully I get more lottery balls in my favor.
 
Euclid said:
So Brown just decided to randomly pick some dude from the Caribbean and put him into neurosurgery? What medical school did you attend? Are you a neurosurgeon too? I'm curious if you have insights on this because I would apply to Brown later if they work like a lottery. I am interested in primary care though, so hopefully I get more lottery balls in my favor.
Click to expand...

It's disingenuous to report a single, isolated example and hold it up as a commonality. If any Caribbean graduate has ever been accepted into a neurosurgery residency at an Ivy League, it was not because of hard work and dedication, it was because they had the proper connection, ie his/her last name matches that of a wing of the hospital. You have a better chance at winning the lottery than getting that position otherwise.
 
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bedevilled ben said:
It's disingenuous to report a single, isolated example and hold it up as a commonality. If any Caribbean graduate has ever been accepted into a neurosurgery residency at an Ivy League, it was not because of hard work and dedication, it was because they had the proper connection, ie his/her last name matches that of a wing of the hospital. You have a better chance at winning the lottery than getting that position otherwise.
Click to expand...

I never said it was a common thing to have a neurosurgery match from the Caribbean. I said, a few posts before, that someone did it and it is possible to match from AUA, but probably in primary care. But Skip quoted me and related winning the lottery to that person's match. I was responding to the OP's concern if it's worth the money to go to AUA.

About the person who matched into neurosurgery, I agree that he probably had connections (he did go to college in Rhode Island), but to say that it was luck is stretching it. I mean, don't programs (especially an Ivy League one) have cut off scores? If you take away the assumed connections he had with Brown, then I'm pretty sure he could match into less competitive specialties at less prestigious institutions. He said on the youtube video that he scored 99 on the Step and his brother 98 (who matched into plastic surgery, same school).
 
I misread your last sentence. Yes, I think he probably had good connections to get that neurosurgery position at Brown.
 
bedevilled ben said:
It's disingenuous to report a single, isolated example and hold it up as a commonality. If any Caribbean graduate has ever been accepted into a neurosurgery residency at an Ivy League, it was not because of hard work and dedication, it was because they had the proper connection, ie his/her last name matches that of a wing of the hospital. You have a better chance at winning the lottery than getting that position otherwise.
Click to expand...

This. ^

Euclid said:
I never said it was a common thing to have a neurosurgery match from the Caribbean.
Click to expand...

This. ^

Euclid said:
I misread your last sentence. Yes, I think he probably had good connections to get that neurosurgery position at Brown.
Click to expand...

And, this. ^

Getting into one of the following categorical residencies from any school in the Caribbean is rarer than hen's teeth (i.e., extremely unlikely and on-par with your odds of winning even a small prize in a lottery, let alone the jackpot):
  • Dermatology
  • Orthopedic surgery
  • Plastic surgery
  • Neurosurgery
  • Radiation oncology
If you study hard, score well, and have good letters from good rotations, you might have a shot at these:
  • Anesthesiology
  • Emergency Medicine
  • Radiology
  • General Surgery
  • Physical Medicine and Rehab
If you attend a Caribbean school - and everything goes as planned - you should probably expect to land in one of these:
  • Internal Medicine
  • Family Practice
  • Pediatrics
  • Psychiatry
A lot of people, who I generally refer to as the hopeless optimists, play the lottery thinking they are going to win. Isolated examples (i.e., anecdotes) are not what usually happens. Plan accordingly.

-Skip
 
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Skip Intro said:
This. ^

If you attend a Caribbean school - and everything goes as planned - you should probably expect to land in one of these:
  • Internal Medicine
  • Family Practice
  • Pediatrics
  • Psychiatry
A lot of people, who I generally refer to as the hopeless optimists, play the lottery thinking they are going to win. Isolated examples (i.e., anecdotes) are not what usually happens. Plan accordingly.

-Skip
Click to expand...

Can't wait to see the NRMP match statistics for this year. Anecdotally, every program I've interviewed with has reported a huge jump in the number of applicants this year. Seems like IM and Psych saw large increases in average board scores as well.
 
bedevilled ben said:
Can't wait to see the NRMP match statistics for this year. Anecdotally, every program I've interviewed with has reported a huge jump in the number of applicants this year. Seems like IM and Psych saw large increases in average board scores as well.
Click to expand...
This is the case every year. It is more a product of people applying to more programs rather than a huge spike in total applicants. US medical school enrollment hasn't changed substantially, so any major increase would be coming from IMGs.
 
bedevilled ben said:
Can't wait to see the NRMP match statistics for this year. Anecdotally, every program I've interviewed with has reported a huge jump in the number of applicants this year. Seems like IM and Psych saw large increases in average board scores as well.
Click to expand...
Is FM also seeing an increase this year as well (in terms of applicants and scores)? Thanks
 
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