Away Rotation Applications

[subtle1epiphany]

I'm in the process of putting together applications to OHSU, UWash - Seattle, and UWash - Spokane.
What is the general timeframe for away rotations in late October through January? Am I applying early? late?
I'm thinking that I'm more on the later side of "on-time," but I'd like to get a sense of things.
Thanks!
- s1e

p.s. any advice on applications, info on these sites (internal medicine in the Pacific NW), or more specific advice/info on how to answer the letter topic of "why you wish to complete an elective in internal medicine (needs to include which discipline you are pursuing a residency in)" is more than appreciated!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Ypo.]

I think you are on the later side of on time. I applied a month and a half ago, and several of the Washington programs were already booked. It seems to depend on how competitive the program is.

 

[Blade28]

I'm in the process of putting together applications to OHSU, UWash - Seattle, and UWash - Spokane.
What is the general timeframe for away rotations in late October through January? Am I applying early? late?
I'm thinking that I'm more on the later side of "on-time," but I'd like to get a sense of things.
Thanks!
- s1e

When I applied for away rotations, I did so in January/February of my MS-III year.

So I don't know if things have changed in the past few years, but the end of April seems a little late to me. As stated above, some programs will have filled by now.

 

[Kubed]

Agree with Yop and Blade. Your only saving grace is that some programs will only let people apply at a max, 6 months in advance. With those programs you are just now hitting their window for apps.

 

[subtle1epiphany]

So the responses have really freaked me out.
I've been in some contact with the programs and the only message I've gotten from them after requesting their schedules since before they were available was that they aren't sure until their own students were allocated...I really assumed that meant that while I should hurry up (as I've been doing) I'm at least okay on time.
Damn, I know I dropped the ball here, but I wish my school would provide advisers or anyone who can give us information on how things work. I've been asking the medical education office and my preceptors for months and no one is willing to provide information that isn't immediately contradicted by the University.
I swear, if I didn't check on SDN I'd not only not be in medical school, but it would be December and my ERAS would be in limbo.
Talk about loving things...

 

[Blade28]

I relied on this site when I was an MS-III planning MS-IV away rotations:

http://services.aamc.org/eec/students/

 

[Ashers]

Why don't you try contacting the residency coordinators for some of the departments? They can tell you if they've got spots left, and sometimes they know if they can add spots to the rotation. That's working for me for ortho, and most places are very nice about answering questions.

 

[Southpaw]

Why don't you try contacting the residency coordinators for some of the departments? They can tell you if they've got spots left, and sometimes they know if they can add spots to the rotation. That's working for me for ortho, and most places are very nice about answering questions.

I did this same exact thing when scheduling my ortho rotations. I thought the program coordinators where very helpful. Also, plenty of people in my class haven't scheduled their aways yet, so you might be fine. Probably about half of the programs that I talked to said they wouldn't start processing away applications until sometime in May, after the home students had already got what they wanted. Good luck.

 

[smq123]

So the responses have really freaked me out.
I've been in some contact with the programs and the only message I've gotten from them after requesting their schedules since before they were available was that they aren't sure until their own students were allocated...I really assumed that meant that while I should hurry up (as I've been doing) I'm at least okay on time.
Damn, I know I dropped the ball here, but I wish my school would provide advisers or anyone who can give us information on how things work. I've been asking the medical education office and my preceptors for months and no one is willing to provide information that isn't immediately contradicted by the University.

I think that it kind of depends on what field you're applying for. Some fields might not fill as quickly as others.

Just out of curiosity - why do you want to do your away rotations during late October - January? Wouldn't that interfere with interviewing?

 

[subtle1epiphany]

Thanks Blade!
I generally collect sites like that one, it'll be very useful even if I was introduced to it on the late side.

I'll be emailing the programs specifically about this issue tomorrow, once I'm back at my main campus across the state...I'm driving there tomorrow after lectures to get these applications in as fast as possible.

Thanks to you all, SDN seems to pull through no matter what!

 

[Blade28]

Just out of curiosity - why do you want to do your away rotations during late October - January? Wouldn't that interfere with interviewing?

Yeah, I had the same question. I did my away rotations in August and October, so that I'd be ready in time for interviews from late November to early February.

After all, part of the whole point for doing away rotations is to shine at a prospective program, try to get an interview, and even get a strong letter of recommendation.

 

[subtle1epiphany]

Had no choice due to the way my core rotations are arranged.
I had to fight to get my Ob/Gyn rotation early enough so I have the required rotations under my belt before these away rotations. My school is not set up for students who want to go anywhere but MSU for residency.
It's not ideal by any stretch, but I'm hoping that my strong application (I think it's pretty strong: USMLE 240, basic sci abstract, very strong letters) will make up for it and keep me in the game.
This way I'll have to interview while on rotations, but most will be in the area (Pacific NW) and I'll do whatever I have to so that I put in enough time while there. There wasn't much else I could think of doing.
If you're willing, I could post a more detailed situation for advice, it'd be appreciated, but only if you like a challenge...haha

 

[Southpaw]

Had no choice due to the way my core rotations are arranged.
I had to fight to get my Ob/Gyn rotation early enough so I have the required rotations under my belt before these away rotations. My school is not set up for students who want to go anywhere but MSU for residency.

My school also requires quite a bit during 4th year, but I scheduled all of my required rotations at the end after my elective rotations. This was the only way I could get on the road for my ortho rotations before interviews. If I were you, I'd sit down and think about what's most important to you, doing your away rotations in time to make a good impression for interview season, or frontloading required rotations in your schedule?

There's nothing wrong with going on the road Oct-Jan, but there's not a lot right with it either. Schools will have already decided whether or not to invite you for an interview by then, and it'll be simply based on your ERAS, and not ERAS+away rotation. I mean, what happens if you rotate at a place that didn't decide to interview you, and yet you like the place and they like you? Not saying that will happen, but that's exactly what you're trying to avoid right?

 

[Blade28]

There's nothing wrong with going on the road Oct-Jan, but there's not a lot right with it either. Schools will have already decided whether or not to invite you for an interview by then, and it'll be simply based on your ERAS, and not ERAS+away rotation. I mean, what happens if you rotate at a place that didn't decide to interview you, and yet you like the place and they like you? Not saying that will happen, but that's exactly what you're trying to avoid right?

Yeah, I was wondering that myself.

subtle1epiphany, you're required to take a certain number of core rotations during your MS-IV year? Do they have to be taken first?

 

[subtle1epiphany]

Let's see...
My rotation schedule is/was as follows:

2007
July - Int Med (4wks)
Aug - Anesthesia/Rad (2wks each)
Sept - Gen Surgery (4wks)
Oct - Path Elective (4wks)
Nov - GI Elective(4wks)
Dec - Fam Med Inpt SubI Elective (4wks)
2008
Jan - Fam Med Outpt (4wks)
Feb - Urology (4wks)
Mar - Int Med (4wks)
Apr - Cards Consult (4wks)
May - Peds (4wks)
June - Fam Med Underserved (4wks)
July - Emergency (4wks)
Aug - Psych (4wks)
Sept - OB/Gyn (4wks)
Oct - Jan (Away Rotations)
2009
Feb - Int Med (4wks)
Mar - May (Complete Requirements)

So basically, I had no idea what I was doing during those first three electives. I wasn't interested in Path, but thought it would be a great learning experience, which it might have been. Still, it didn't help me in terms of figuring out what I wanted to do.
My cores include: the six month block from Jan - June 2008, which provides two in-system electives (urology and cardio); Int Med x3 total; Gen Surgery; EM; Anesthesia/Rads; OB/Gyn; and Psych.
I only ruled out surgery during/after my urology rotation, so after that I had three elective left and couldn't complete my cores until the Oct rotation date where I've applied to the Pacific NW...
That's the long story...

Hopefully that makes some sense...in retrospect, attempting to move up my core rotations and putting off those early electives in third-year would have best. Then again, I continually attempted to do just that, but could not move up Psych, EM, or OB/Gyn.
Sometimes stuff just sucks...could have been worse...I have had great rotations in Fam Med, GI, Cardio, IM, and few others...

 

[Blade28]

I'm a little confused...not sure which of those rotations earlier on could have been substituted for.

Either way, what's done is done - all you can do is work hard on your away rotations and hope they're not too late. Best of luck!

 

[Medstudentquest]

I have a question. What is the purpose of an away rotation exactly? Is the place where someone did a rotation stated anywhere on their transcript? What would be the advantage of doing an away rotation in another state vs. one's own school?

 

[QofQuimica]

I relied on this site when I was an MS-III planning MS-IV away rotations:

http://services.aamc.org/eec/students/

Thanks for this link, Blade. You're the man.

 

[Blade28]

I have a question. What is the purpose of an away rotation exactly? Is the place where someone did a rotation stated anywhere on their transcript? What would be the advantage of doing an away rotation in another state vs. one's own school?

Allows you to:

*"Audition" yourself in a visible rotation (e.g. Chairman's Service) to meet important faculty - Program Director, Assistant Program Director, Chairman, tenured full professors
*Obtain strong letters of recommendation from that institution's faculty - which will be better received when you apply to that program
*Try and "earn" an interview at that program
*Meet the residents at any given program, a great way to see if you "fit in"
*See how medicine is practiced in a totally different setting - e.g. academic vs. community hospital, urban vs. suburban vs. rural setting, West Coast vs. East Coast vs. Midwest vs. South, county system vs. ivory tower, etc.

Thanks for this link, Blade. You're the man.

No problem! I relied on that link when I was an MS-III and MS-IV. You thinking of doing some away rotations?

 

[Medstudentquest]

Allows you to:

*"Audition" yourself in a visible rotation (e.g. Chairman's Service) to meet important faculty - Program Director, Assistant Program Director, Chairman, tenured full professors
*Obtain strong letters of recommendation from that institution's faculty - which will be better received when you apply to that program
*Try and "earn" an interview at that program
*Meet the residents at any given program, a great way to see if you "fit in"
*See how medicine is practiced in a totally different setting - e.g. academic vs. community hospital, urban vs. suburban vs. rural setting, West Coast vs. East Coast vs. Midwest vs. South, county system vs. ivory tower, etc.



No problem! I relied on that link when I was an MS-III and MS-IV. You thinking of doing some away rotations?

So say I wanted to get a residency in medicine at Harvard. Then if I did an elective rotation in their medicine service, then that would be considered an audition rotation, where I could meet the residents, program director, etc?
It seems though, at least at my school, that alot of people do away rotations in other states, yet they don't even apply to those schools. I don't see the rationale behind that.

 

[MrBurns10]

Do you all think it would be doable to ask two different depts if you and your husband/wife/fiance(e) can do an away at the same time? i.e. if you get an away somewhere and your partner applied to do a rotation in a different dept, do you think they would they take that into consideration? Just curious. I had no idea how this stuff worked until about 5 mins ago...

 

[Blade28]

So say I wanted to get a residency in medicine at Harvard. Then if I did an elective rotation in their medicine service, then that would be considered an audition rotation, where I could meet the residents, program director, etc?
It seems though, at least at my school, that alot of people do away rotations in other states, yet they don't even apply to those schools. I don't see the rationale behind that.

(1) Yes that could help. Audition rotations are a double-edged sword though - do well and you increase your chances, do poorly and you jeopardize your chances.

(2) I don't see the point of doing an away rotation at a program you have no interest in applying to. Maybe they saw things during their rotation there that scared them away?

 

[QofQuimica]

No problem! I relied on that link when I was an MS-III and MS-IV. You thinking of doing some away rotations?

Yup.

 

[Medstudentquest]

(1) Yes that could help. Audition rotations are a double-edged sword though - do well and you increase your chances, do poorly and you jeopardize your chances.

(2) I don't see the point of doing an away rotation at a program you have no interest in applying to. Maybe they saw things during their rotation there that scared them away?

So then audition rotations are the same thing as away rotations? Other than wanting to attend a certain program and doing a rotation at that hospital/university, is there any other advantage of doing away rotations? If a student did elective rotations in their chosen field and did well, would it really matter where they did them, especially if they end up applying to multiple programs?

 

[SoCuteMD]

(1) Yes that could help. Audition rotations are a double-edged sword though - do well and you increase your chances, do poorly and you jeopardize your chances.

(2) I don't see the point of doing an away rotation at a program you have no interest in applying to. Maybe they saw things during their rotation there that scared them away?

I think there is a benefit to some people. Maybe you want to see another part of the country. There are some fields that vary dramatically from region to region (I'm thinking specifically of emergency medicine). Some people want to get a strong letter of recommendation from someone with a reputation in a particular field. Some people know that they are going to have a hard time "playing nice" for an entire month of q4 call - so they go somewhere where they can get a great letter but aren't worried about burning any bridges. Some people may be advised to do so by those who know them well (I know of specific examples of this happening).

Letters from your home institution are great, but the letters are always going to be interpreted as having a bit of a bias. Letters that come from outside your home institution have more weight.

 

[Blade28]

Some people want to get a strong letter of recommendation from someone with a reputation in a particular field. Some people know that they are going to have a hard time "playing nice" for an entire month of q4 call - so they go somewhere where they can get a great letter but aren't worried about burning any bridges.

Good point!

 

[AlmostAnMD]

While we're on the subject of necrobumping, how the heck did Blade28 get completely removed from this database?