Baylor College of Medicine Class of 2013

[anoncurious]

Well, I doubt that many people use US News as the end-all for choosing a school, but the fact remains that most DO, in fact, use US News as a general guidepoint to assess the quality of a school. I'm certainly guilty of that--if Baylor was ranked in the 50s, I have no problem saying that I would not be considering BCM as much as I am now..I think that's true for most applicants.

So it remains rather odd for BCM to willingly lower it's rankings.. I see nothing 'noble' about not reporting MD Anderson especially given that so many other schools do similar things. THe noble thing might be to petition US News to change their policies, but every school should maximize their opportunities while playing within the rules..I really see no disadvantage to reporting MDA to US News.. especially when they had such a great shot to be in top ten this year. (I know, there is no inherent merit to being 10 instead of 13 or whatever, but certainly if you had the option you would rather be 10.)

So anyway, my point is that I doubt BCM did this for no reason..there's got to be some kind of explanation.

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[htownpremie]

isn't MD Anderson primarily associated with UT-Houston though? if you do a rotation at MD Anderson as a Baylor student isn't it considered an 'away' rotation that you have to set up on your own?

 

[nv45]

Well, I doubt that many people use US News as the end-all for choosing a school, but the fact remains that most DO, in fact, use US News as a general guidepoint to assess the quality of a school. I'm certainly guilty of that--if Baylor was ranked in the 50s, I have no problem saying that I would not be considering BCM as much as I am now..I think that's true for most applicants.

So it remains rather odd for BCM to willingly lower it's rankings.. I see nothing 'noble' about not reporting MD Anderson especially given that so many other schools do similar things. THe noble thing might be to petition US News to change their policies, but every school should maximize their opportunities while playing within the rules..I really see no disadvantage to reporting MDA to US News.. especially when they had such a great shot to be in top ten this year. (I know, there is no inherent merit to being 10 instead of 13 or whatever, but certainly if you had the option you would rather be 10.)

So anyway, my point is that I doubt BCM did this for no reason..there's got to be some kind of explanation.

I agree with everything you said.

The fact is there are so many schools and US News provides one way to evaluate the quality and I guess "class" of the school. But, if I had to rank schools I would rather do it in tiers/groups rather than like 1,2,3...etc. If Baylor was not ranked though I don't know if I would have seriously considered it and worked so hard to try to get accepted. I mean, come on, saying you went to a Top X school certainly feels good no matter how much you want to publicly deny it.

And yeah, I think Baylor should have counted the MD Anderson money because its affiliated with Baylor (Baylor even says they are affiliated with it, http://www.bcm.edu/about/affiliates.cfm). US news says that the criteria used are the following: "Total Research Activity (.20) Measured by the total dollar amount of National Institutes of Health (NIH) research grants awarded to the medical school and its affiliated hospitals, averaged for 2007 and 2008." Granted that it is part of the UT system , but Baylor residents train there, Baylor faculty work there and they share several programs so why isn't it included?

I mean Harvard counts 17 affiliated hospitals in its rankings even though they mostly only use Mass Gen, Beth Israel, and Brigham and Women's. 17 hospitals, no wonder they have over 1 billion in research every single year. The University of Washington, which is the example probably most similar to our case, counts the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center even though Hutchinson is an independent institution. By itself UW gets $267 million from NIH (we get $211 million) but counting Fred Hutchinson puts them into the $500 million dollar range. So, if you want to make this ranking fair you would have to count MD Anderson for Baylor.

 

[nv45]

isn't MD Anderson primarily associated with UT-Houston though? if you do a rotation at MD Anderson as a Baylor student isn't it considered an 'away' rotation that you have to set up on your own?

Here are the affiliated programs UT Houston and MD Anderson use:
[FONT=Arial,geneva]The University of Texas Health Science Center, Houston .
[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Anesthesiology
​

.

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Cardiology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Critical Care.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Dermatology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Gastroenterology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]General Surgery.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Hematology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Infectious Diseases.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Internal Medicine.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Internal Medicine/Pediatrics.
​

[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Nephrology
​

.

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Neurology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Obstetrics and Gynecology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Otolaryngology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Pathology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Pediatrics.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Psychiatry.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Radiology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Urology.
​

Here are the ones Baylor and MD Anderson use:

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Baylor College of Medicine.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Anesthesiology
​

.

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Endocrinology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Family Practice.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]General Surgery.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Hematology/Oncology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Orthopaedic Surgery.
​

[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Otolaryngology
Neurosurgery
​

.[FONT=Arial,geneva]Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation.
​

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Plastic Surgery.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Psychiatry.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Radiology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Thoracic Surgery.
​

Ut Houston also uses MD Anderson for their MD/PhD program just as Cornell and Rockefeller University do, but they are all separate institutions.
Are MD Anderson and UT Houston more affiliated? Yes, thats what it looks like
Are MD Anderson and Baylor not affiliated? Of course not
I mean if Baylor and MD Anderson use all those programs, I don't see how that wouldn't count as an affiliation to use.

 

[BaylorLion]

Don't forget NSGY, which was the first department to "merge" with MDA.

 

[MD13]

I think many people are relieved to find out that the rankings changed simply because of BCM's decision to not include MD Anderson in their funding numbers--this means that the institution itself is largely unchanged and that there is not substantive reason behind the ranking drop.

Some others may be concerned behind the reason for not reporting these numbers this year and so to ease those concerns, I am posting below an excerpt from a response from Baylor administration that directly addresses this point. Certain phrases are excluded to protect the identity of the person.

"Dr. Butler, who is the current president, was not the president when the decision was made to include M.D. Anderson's numbers. M.D. Anderson is part of the University of Texas system and has an affiliation with the UT Medical School Houston. Since both of the Houston medical schools are part of the US News survey, in essence, we are both reporting the same research dollars for the same affiliated hospital. Although some people might say it doesn't matter, it was decided that the fairest representation was to only reflect the research dollars for our primary affiliated hospitals, none of which have an affiliation with another medical school. I guess you could say that the bottom line is that we made a complicated decision for all the right reasons – fairness with our sister institution and respect for the survey process. "

Although many people probably disagree with this decision, this information definitely portrays Baylor in a positive light and hopefully will ease the concerns of others who are looking at the ranking drop with concern. BCM remains a great institution and will hopefully only get better in the years to come.

Hope this helps!

 

[nv45]

I think many people are relieved to find out that the rankings changed simply because of BCM's decision to not include MD Anderson in their funding numbers--this means that the institution itself is largely unchanged and that there is not substantive reason behind the ranking drop.

Some others may be concerned behind the reason for not reporting these numbers this year and so to ease those concerns, I am posting below an excerpt from a response from Baylor administration that directly addresses this point. Certain phrases are excluded to protect the identity of the person.

"Dr. Butler, who is the current president, was not the president when the decision was made to include M.D. Anderson’s numbers. M.D. Anderson is part of the University of Texas system and has an affiliation with the UT Medical School Houston. Since both of the Houston medical schools are part of the US News survey, in essence, we are both reporting the same research dollars for the same affiliated hospital. Although some people might say it doesn’t matter, it was decided that the fairest representation was to only reflect the research dollars for our primary affiliated hospitals, none of which have an affiliation with another medical school. I guess you could say that the bottom line is that we made a complicated decision for all the right reasons – fairness with our sister institution and respect for the survey process. "

Although many people disagree with this decision (I may be one of them), this information definitely portrays Baylor in a positive light and hopefully will ease the concerns of others who are looking at the ranking drop with concern. BCM remains a great institution and will hopefully only get better in the years to come.

Hope this helps!

Well there you have it, I guess it is more fair to only include stuff that we are directly responsible for even if it hurts our rankings a little bit.
Look at the positive side: after losing over $200 million from that survey and still being ranked #17, with the Rice-merger ahead, I think we will only go up from here.

 

[Sine Timore]

I hope they decide on the merger soon, otherwise I will be very worried..

 

[BaylorLion]

It's nice to know the reason, but I disagree with Dr. Butler's decision. I'd consider it 'gaming the rankings' if we were barely related to MD Anderson, but multiple departments are merged, including Psychiatry, Neurosurgery, ENT, Radiology, etc. I wonder if they're including money from TIRR, since we share that with UT Houston as well.

Sine Timore, I hate to say this, but you're probably going to worry. An announcement on this merger is going to be a long time coming, I have a feeling. I too keep checking chron.com almost daily to see if any news, but I have a feeling there'll be lots of meetings. Still, I think it WILL happen.

 

[nv45]

Although some people might say it doesn't matter, it was decided that the fairest
representation was to only reflect the research dollars for our primary affiliated
teaching hospitals, none of which have an affiliation with another medical school.
The only exception to this is TIRR which has a
joint PM&R program of BCM and UT Houston. The research dollars at TIRR are run
through the institution where the faculty member has an appointment so there is no
duplicate reporting in this case. We made a complicated decision for all the right
reasons - fairness with our sister institution and
respect for the survey process.



This is the message I got from the Baylor administration.
yeah, they included TIRR

 

[nv45]

Hey guys, you are not going to believe this:

According to Baylor, we did not include MD anderson in our research funding out of respect for UT Houston. Well......

According to US News, this is the amount of NIH Funding UT Houston reported:
Total amount of NIH funds granted to medical school and affiliated hospitals (in millions of dollars) $64.8

According to the NIH website (http://report.nih.gov/award/trends/FindOrg_Detail.cfm?OrgID=578417), this is the amount UT Houston (just the medical school) received:
SCHOOLS OF MEDICINE$61,162,538

This is the amount MD Anderson received from NIH(http://report.nih.gov/award/trends/FindOrg_Detail.cfm?OrgID=578407)
Total$151,085,284


So it looks like both Baylor AND UT Houston did not report MD Anderson in their research money......
In fact, based on all the rankings I have looked at, UT Houston has NEVER included MD Anderson for their research money.
I don't think the Baylor administration knew this.......had they known, maybe they would have included it

 

[Doctura]

Hey guys, you are not going to believe this:

According to Baylor, we did not include MD anderson in our research funding out of respect for UT Houston. Well......

According to US News, this is the amount of NIH Funding UT Houston reported:
Total amount of NIH funds granted to medical school and affiliated hospitals (in millions of dollars) $64.8

According to the NIH website (http://report.nih.gov/award/trends/FindOrg_Detail.cfm?OrgID=578417), this is the amount UT Houston (just the medical school) received:
SCHOOLS OF MEDICINE$61,162,538

This is the amount MD Anderson received from NIH(http://report.nih.gov/award/trends/FindOrg_Detail.cfm?OrgID=578407)
Total$151,085,284


So it looks like both Baylor AND UT Houston did not report MD Anderson in their research money......
In fact, based on all the rankings I have looked at, UT Houston has NEVER included MD Anderson for their research money.
I don't think the Baylor administration knew this.......had they known, maybe they would have included it

This is all sounding very strange... It feels like someone is hiding something. At least we know that:
1. No research money has disappeared, only the reporting of it has changed.
2. BCM is still a great medical school, regardless of ranking (which, at 17, is frankly still pretty good).

I'll admit to using the US News rankings, but this isn't really enough of a drop to bother me.

 

[htownpremie]

Here are the affiliated programs UT Houston and MD Anderson use:
[FONT=Arial,geneva]The University of Texas Health Science Center, Houston .
[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Anesthesiology
​

.

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Cardiology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Critical Care.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Dermatology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Gastroenterology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]General Surgery.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Hematology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Infectious Diseases.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Internal Medicine.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Internal Medicine/Pediatrics.
​

[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Nephrology
​

.

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Neurology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Obstetrics and Gynecology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Otolaryngology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Pathology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Pediatrics.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Psychiatry.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Radiology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Urology.
​

Here are the ones Baylor and MD Anderson use:

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Baylor College of Medicine.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Anesthesiology
​

.

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Endocrinology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Family Practice.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]General Surgery.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Hematology/Oncology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Orthopaedic Surgery.
​

[FONT=Arial,geneva]

Otolaryngology
​

.

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Neurosurgery.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation.
​

[FONT=Arial,geneva]Plastic Surgery.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Psychiatry.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Radiology.
[FONT=Arial,geneva]Thoracic Surgery.
​

Ut Houston also uses MD Anderson for their MD/PhD program just as Cornell and Rockefeller University do, but they are all separate institutions.
Are MD Anderson and UT Houston more affiliated? Yes, thats what it looks like
Are MD Anderson and Baylor not affiliated? Of course not
I mean if Baylor and MD Anderson use all those programs, I don't see how that wouldn't count as an affiliation to use.

I'm unsure of whether or not this would be a fair way of determining "primary affiliation" in terms of NIH funding/research, but maybe look at the respective departments at MD Anderson and see how much each of these affiliated departments brings in in terms of funding. I think the big ones for Anderson are Internal Medicine, Basic Sciences and Public Heath/Preventative Medicine. Internal medicine according to the list above goes to UTHSC-Houston, although I don't even think UTHSC-Houston students do IM rotations at Anderson... so whatever that means. I'm not sure about Public Health...although we've had students at the school of public health at UTHSC do some basic science research in our lab... I kind of doubt if that means anything though. If we also consider that the graduate school in the basic sciences is jointly administered by UTHSC-Houston and MD Anderson, the funding brought in by UTHSC-Houston and MD Anderson affiliated departments only increases. I could totally be off base here though.

My own experience as an employee at Anderson is that in terms of research, faculty are pretty much at liberty to collaborate with whomever they please. Mine has projects going with Rice, Texas A&M and UTHSC-Houston..We had a visiting scientist from Japan with us who is leaving next year for an assistant professorship at BCM... it's a messy love triangle I think.

I'll add re: what other people have said about who has dibs on Anderson's NIH money that i think it'd be misleading for either institution to do that. sure there are affiliations, but Anderson is a degree granting institution in its own right and i don't think that Baylor or UTHSC-Houston really have enough to do with its success at procuring NIH grants to warrant "claiming" those funds as part of their own.

 

[nv45]

[/quote]I'll add re: what other people have said about who has dibs on Anderson's NIH money that i think it'd be misleading for either institution to do that. sure there are affiliations, but Anderson is a degree granting institution in its own right and i don't think that Baylor or UTHSC-Houston really have enough to do with its success at procuring NIH grants to warrant "claiming" those funds as part of their own.[/quote]

I would agree with the point that if you were to include MD Anderson as part of your "own" funding, then neither institution should claim it, but US News doesn't ask for this. All they ask is for NIH dollars to your medical school AND your affiliated hospitals. Thats why places like UW can count the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Institute in their numbers even though Fred Hutchinson is administratively independent from the University of Wasington.

Also, if MD Anderson had its own medical school, then yeah I think neither should include it because that wouldn't make sense. But that's not the case. Both Baylor and UT Houston have ties to MD Anderson, so both are affiliated with it. I think for neither to include MD Anderson is just stupid. It's like leaving a pretty girl without a date even though everybody wants to date her. Its one thing not to include MD Anderson if UT Houston decides to include it in their numbers. Thats at least reasonable since you would include the same institution twice and over-represent MD Anderson. But, clearly UT Houston does not want to and never has included MD Anderson into their affiliated hospitals for US News. So why should we do the same thing? Not including MD Anderson does not represent the Texas Medical Center fairly with other elite academic medical centers (remember, thats who we are competing against). So since UT Houston does not and never has included it, we should include it (just like we always have). Not including it would be like benching one of your best players in a championship game even though he is healthy and ready to go.

 

[htownpremie]

I would agree with the point that if you were to include MD Anderson as part of your "own" funding, then neither institution should claim it, but US News doesn't ask for this. All they ask is for NIH dollars to your medical school AND your affiliated hospitals. Thats why places like UW can count the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Institute in their numbers even though Fred Hutchinson is administratively independent from the University of Wasington.

Also, if MD Anderson had its own medical school, then yeah I think neither should include it because that wouldn't make sense. But that's not the case. Both Baylor and UT Houston have ties to MD Anderson, so both are affiliated with it. I think for neither to include MD Anderson is just stupid. It's like leaving a pretty girl without a date even though everybody wants to date her. Its one thing not to include MD Anderson if UT Houston decides to include it in their numbers. Thats at least reasonable since you would include the same institution twice and over-represent MD Anderson. But, clearly UT Houston does not want to and never has included MD Anderson into their affiliated hospitals for US News. So why should we do the same thing? Not including MD Anderson does not represent the Texas Medical Center fairly with other elite academic medical centers (remember, thats who we are competing against). So since UT Houston does not and never has included it, we should include it (just like we always have). Not including it would be like benching one of your best players in a championship game even though he is healthy and ready to go.

perhaps UW has enough joint appointments with fred hutchinson to warrant a "primary affiliation." fair enough though if you couch it in terms of us competing with the rest of the medical centers in the US. in the interest of competition with other medical centers, it would make sense...although in my opinion, whether or not Houston chooses document Anderson's NIH money is irrelevant to whether Baylor can claim Anderson as a primary affiliate.

as for citing numbers from the NIH website, i don't think the money that Anderson received would be lumped with UT Houston's on the NIH website. so how does everyone know that UT Houston did not claim MD Anderson? unless you bought access to the detailed report?

 

[nv45]

perhaps UW has enough joint appointments with fred hutchinson to warrant a "primary affiliation." fair enough though if you couch it in terms of us competing with the rest of the medical centers in the US. in the interest of competition with other medical centers, it would make sense...although in my opinion, whether or not Houston chooses document Anderson's NIH money is irrelevant to whether Baylor can claim Anderson as a primary affiliate.

as for citing numbers from the NIH website, i don't think the money that Anderson received would be lumped with UT Houston's on the NIH website. so how does everyone know that UT Houston did not claim MD Anderson? unless you bought access to the detailed report?

yeah the only way you could know that UT Houston did not count MD anderson would be if you bought the Premium Online Edition from US News (which I did), and the way you can tell is simple math:

UT Houston reported 64 million on US News, they have 61 million reported from NIH, and MD Anderson has 150 million from NIH.
The extra 3 million UT Houston has probably comes from TIRR, Texas Heart Institute (both of which they share with Baylor), and LBJ Hospital.
I mean if UT Houston reported MD Anderson, they would obviously have at least 200 million reported from US News

We might be getting into word games, but US News doesn't require a "primary" affiliate, it only requires an affiliate (which baylor claims MD anderson is, http://www.bcm.edu/about/affiliates.cfm). Harvard's "primary" affiliates are only Mass Gen, Beth Israel, and Brigham and Women's, but they include all 17 "affiliates" in their calculation.

 

[htownpremie]

ahh i see. that makes sense then.

yah, primary affiliate i think becomes an issue when two or more medical schools can lay claim to a hospital affiliate. clearly, the baylor administration does not think it has a fair claim to anderson (at least this year) as an affiliate for reporting to us news, since ut-houston has the stronger relationship for now. ut-houston students can and do rotate through here as part of their required clerkships, and i have only seen students from uthsc-h in the labs (in my department at least). the alternative is anderson to be double-reported, but us news might have an issue with that. although really, if ut-houston doesn't choose to claim anderson, that's their business in my opinion. if say harvard for whatever reason decided it didn't want to report massgen, does that mean all the other schools in boston with 'affiliations' with massgen can claim it? there must be a threshold in terms of joint faculty appointments, joint departments, student rotations, etc. etc. that determine at what point a school can claim affiliation for the purposes of us news.

my guess though is that someone at ut-houston raised a fuss, or maybe anderson made a fuss, or someone at us news questioned the link or something of that nature. i doubt that the bcm administration did this purely out of good will, particularly if this had been a long standing practice. if it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know? as doctura pointed out, it does feel like we are missing a part of the puzzle here, and my guess is that it's somewhat of a political issue.

in any case, this just goes to prove how stupid the rankings are to begin with. i doubt that having/not having access to nih money at anderson really makes that big of a difference in the quality of education at bcm.

 

[htownpremie]

i'll add for the record that anderson's email system is integrated with UT-Houston and apparently so is our police department... not sure if that means anything either.

 

[Jolie South]

in any case, this just goes to prove how stupid the rankings are to begin with. i doubt that having/not having access to nih money at anderson really makes that big of a difference in the quality of education at bcm.

methinks this is the correct sentiment to have about all of this. nothing has changed.

 

[nv45]

Ok guys, I just talked to the person responsible for the US News reporting at Baylor, and the way she explained the whole thing to me makes a lot of sense. Basically, I agree with the post that said MD Anderson is a degree-granting institution in its own right and has its OWN faculty. All the NIH funding pretty much boils down to the faculty members and which institution they are affiliated with. For example, we have a shared chair for MD Anderson and Baylor in neurosurgery, so the faculty that work on projects at MD Anderson for neurosurgery but are faculty members at Baylor, that money would go to Baylor and is reported by NIH under the Baylor name. The same goes for UT Houston. This explains why UT Houston does not report MD Anderson because for the faculty that work there, their money goes under the UT Houston name and is reported as such by NIH. So really the way we should look at the Texas Medical Center is threefold: UT Houston's hospitals, Baylor's hospitals, and MD anderson. MD Anderson has its OWN faculty, so it should be left by itself as its own thing.
So this should clear up any questions, and I can't believe i'm saying this after trying to prove to you guys that Baylor should've reported MD Anderson, but I think what Baylor did was the right thing to do.

 

[htownpremie]

Ok guys, I just talked to the person responsible for the US NEws reporting at Baylor, and the way she explained to me makes a lot of sense. Basically, I agree with the post that said MD Anderson is a degree-granting institution in its own right and has its OWN faculty. All the NIH funding pretty much boils down to the faculty members and which institution they are affiliated with. For example, we have a shared chair for MD Anderson and Baylor in neurosurgery, so the faculty that work on projects at MD Anderson for neurosurgery but are faculty members at Baylor, that money would go to Baylor and is reported by NIH under the Baylor name. The same goes for UT Houston. This explains why UT Houston does not report MD Anderson because for the faculty that work there, their money goes under the UT Houston name is reported as such by NIH. So really the way we should look at the Texas Medical Center is threefold: UT Houston's hospitals, Baylor's hospitals, and MD anderson. MD Anderson has its OWn faculty, so it should be left by itself as its own thing.
So this should clear up any questions, and I can't believe i'm saying this, but I think what Baylor did was the right thing to do.

yah that definitely makes sense. it's been my sense working here that anderson sees itself as an independent institution... as well it should. it's been in the top two in cancer research and care since US news starting doing the rankings nearly 20 years ago, and that's probably not a direct result of its affiliations with the two adjacent medical schools, since the faculty overlap isn't that tremendous (unlike some hospitals where every attending is considered faculty at the affiliated medical school). anderson has so many divisions and departments within divisions that the 'affiliated departments' list posted earlier seems relatively minor. in terms of 'medical education,' anderson's has its own degree-granting program but it also trains its own residents. maybe that's partly why i was a little resistant to the notion of any school claiming md anderson to begin with.

but really all baylor did was report the money that it was partly responsible for bringing in. i'm sorta curious what the impetus was for them to actually act accordingly.

 

[BaylorLion]

i suspect the impetus was the changing of the guard (i.e. Dr. Butler becoming the new president).

 

[Premedico]

Can any accepted student tell me when Baylor's orientation is this year? Exact dates please, its urgent!

Thank you!

 

[nv45]

Can any accepted student tell me when Baylor's orientation is this year? Exact dates please, its urgent!

Thank you!

its July 27-31; the retreat is July 27-28, and then we come back to Baylor for July 29-31.

 

[Premedico]

Thank you so much nv45!!

I take it the retreat is optional? So attendance would be mandatory only from 29-31st right?

 

[littletxdoc]

Can any accepted student tell me when Baylor's orientation is this year? Exact dates please, its urgent!

Thank you!

Below is copied from the Class of 2013 site at BCM:

2009-2010 Academic Year
July 27 - July 31, 2009 - Orientation
July 31, 2009 – Curriculum Overview
ALL ORIENTATION ACTIVITIES ARE MANDATORY.
(The dates below are TENTATIVE. Do not make plans (flight arrangements, etc.) based on these dates.
Block 1
Aug. 3 - First Day of Class

Hope this helps!

 

[karamazov]

Is anyone else still waiting on fin aid info from BCM? I got the email saying that there wouldn't be merit scholarships this year, but haven't heard from the fin aid office.

Wondering if I need to call and see what's up....?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you so much nv45!!

I take it the retreat is optional? So attendance would be mandatory only from 29-31st right?

I'm pretty sure the retreat is required...

Is anyone else still waiting on fin aid info from BCM? I got the email saying that there wouldn't be merit scholarships this year, but haven't heard from the fin aid office.

Wondering if I need to call and see what's up....?

Yeah, that might be a good idea at this point...

 

[karamazov]

Yeah, that might be a good idea at this point...

I called the financial aid office, and it looks like they did my package on Monday, but haven't emailed it yet...but I should be getting it by the end of this week.

Just in case anyone else hasn't gotten theirs and is wondering what's up...I wouldn't worry until next week.

Looking forward to meeting everyone at orientation! (And yes, everything I've read has made it very clear that the retreat is mandatory.)

 

[htownpremie]

I called the financial aid office, and it looks like they did my package on Monday, but haven't emailed it yet...but I should be getting it by the end of this week.

Just in case anyone else hasn't gotten theirs and is wondering what's up...I wouldn't worry until next week.

Looking forward to meeting everyone at orientation! (And yes, everything I've read has made it very clear that the retreat is mandatory.)

what's the turn around been?? i just turned mine in yesterday...

 

[karamazov]

I sent my forms in around the end of Feb (2+ months ago) which is why I'm surprised I haven't gotten anything yet. May 15 is coming soon...

 

[htownpremie]

I sent my forms in around the end of Feb (2+ months ago) which is why I'm surprised I haven't gotten anything yet. May 15 is coming soon...

LOL wowwww maybe i can't expect something by may 15th... ugh to parents and their crazy itemized tax return.

 

[htownpremie]

..

 

[htownpremie]

..

 

[Premedico]

Thank you to everyone who answered my questions! Esp littletxdoc.

 

[karamazov]

ohh boy, i guess i can't expect anything before may 15th anyway... baylor's so cheap though, so maybe it doesn't really matter.

who knows with baylor...you may get yours back before me. =)

but its true.

BCM fin aid worst case scenario > 99% other schools' fin aid

 

[ami1983]

I sent my forms in around the end of Feb (2+ months ago) which is why I'm surprised I haven't gotten anything yet. May 15 is coming soon...

ditto, and my app had problems that they didn't tell me about. You have to keep calling and checking back.

 

[htownpremie]

On the MD/MPH program...

I finished my MPH at UTSPH before starting medical school at BCM. I think I'm the only BCM student right now who has finished at UTSPH, although a handful of others started last year. I helped Drs. Abrams and Piller get the MD/MPH program rolling last year.

I agree, admissions at UTSPH can be frustrating, even for traditional MPH applicants. It's even more confusing for MD/MPH applicants from BCM, since you are the first class applying with this process. But not too worry. If you are accepted into BCM, you are certainly qualified for the MPH program. Just get the paperwork submitted as soon as possible and keep communicating with Dr. Abrams at BCM, and Drs. Piller and Smith at UTSPH.

If you have any questions or concerns about the program, certainly contact Steve Abrams, the director, at [email protected], or find him on Facebook.

And if you have any questions about BCM or UTSPH, or public/global health generally, please drop me a line at jsnichols {at} gmail {dot} com. I'd really like to hear from you.

Also, I'm looking for a roommate (see my above post). I enjoy having public health-type people around.

Good luck.

Am I the only one that didn't know that I was supposed to request a GRE waiver for the dual MD/MPH program?? apparently my app has been on hold since February because of it..

 

[lilycat]

Hey!

Welcome to Baylor- you will have a great time the next four years! I say that as a former Baylor student and a current Baylor resident.

For those of you looking for somewhere to live, I thought I would let you all know that my in-laws have a small house in West University that they are looking to rent out. West University is a very nice, family-oriented neighborhood just west of the medical center. The house is older, so no granite countertops or anything, but it does have hardwood floors throughout, 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, study, LR, DR, and a fenced yard, and pets are welcome. It is a great location close to grocery stores, restaurants and the medical center. PM me if you are interested or have any questions about the house.

Good luck with settling in!

 

[karamazov]

Got my fin aid package email (wasn't expecting it on a saturday, but glad to get it!)...REALLY like the interest rates on the special BCM loans. =)

OK. Time to withdraw elsewhere and make this official!

 

[karamazov]

EDIT

BCM 2013? Really? Because you really sound to me like a lame realtor/salesperson posing as a student to sucker us into giving you business. No thanks.

 

[chiz2kul]

BCM 2013? Really? Because you really sound to me like a lame realtor/salesperson posing as a student to sucker us into giving you business. No thanks.

 

[htownpremie]

BCM 2013? Really? Because you really sound to me like a lame realtor/salesperson posing as a student to sucker us into giving you business. No thanks.

yep. not in the facebook group. failllllllllllll.

unless you are actually bcm13, in which case, sorry.

 

[ami1983]

I'm really shocked at my financial aid package from BCM. Has anyone attempted and/or knows who to talk to in the admissions office in hopes of getting it changed for the better? And has anyone received anything besides loans? If any current students have experience with this please PM me.

 

[ami1983]

Did everyone get the email stating that 'scholarship funds will be directed to students with financial need', or is this their way of telling us individually that we aren't qualified for one? (even though they say this isn't the case)

It doesn't really make sense..financial need is more or less irrelevant for medical students since most of us pay on our own yet are considered for institutional funds based on our parent's info...

It's also strange that they didn't plan enough in advance to know not to ask us for scholarship essays..this decision is odd

This was not my experience at BCM.

 

[htownpremie]

I'm really shocked at my financial aid package from BCM. Has anyone attempted and/or knows who to talk to in the admissions office in hopes of getting it changed for the better? And has anyone received anything besides loans? If any current students have experience with this please PM me.

I only got loans...in the amount of 4000 a year (not including the Stafford of 8500 or so). I didn't provide any parent information.

My impression is that grants are going to be given out, but you need to qualify for need-based aid to get them (although there was mention of some URM students getting them, I think...not totally sure on that one). In order to do that, they're going to have to take a look at your parents information.

As for the economy and diverting funds to need-based aid, I think it's more of a way for Baylor to address their budget crisis than to give MORE money to students with financial need. My guess is that they'll be giving out the same amount of need-based aid, and will get to hold onto the merit scholarship money.

 

[GoSpursGo]

As for the economy and diverting funds to need-based aid, I think it's more of a way for Baylor to address their budget crisis than to give MORE money to students with financial need. My guess is that they'll be giving out the same amount of need-based aid, and will get to hold onto the merit scholarship money.

Bingo, thinks I.

 

[nv45]

how long until you think we will know whether we are merging with Rice or not?

 

[MD13]

.

 

[karamazov]

how long until you think we will know whether we are merging with Rice or not?

Don't count on it happening anytime soon...and certainly not by May 15th, if that's in any way influencing your decision.