best major for potential neurosurgeon

[Buddhasmash]

I know that, for the purposes of med school acceptance, it doesn't matter what I major in. I know that humanities and fine arts majors actually have an edge. What I'm concerned with, though, is which undergrad major will best prepare me, intellectually, for the coursework a neurosurgeon resident will have to endure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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[ICanHazChBurger]

I know that, for the purposes of med school acceptance, it doesn't matter what I major in. I know that humanities and fine arts majors actually have an edge. What I'm concerned with, though, is which undergrad major will best prepare me, intellectually, for the coursework a neurosurgeon resident will have to endure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

In computer science terms, I would go with "Neuro*"

Other good choices to get you ready for the pain might be electrical engineering, applied physics, theoretical mechanics, or an honors biochemistry track.

Best choices are things like art, acting, and massage to ensure that by the time you get to med school you aren't too burned out to put up w/ the 4 years there and the subsequent 88 hr/wk residency

 

[Neatloaf]

Double major in skirt chasing and beer drinking.

Or major in something you might enjoy and will spark your intellectual curiosity because, regardless of your major, your work in undergrad will be mouse farts in comparison to your workload as a resident.

 

[Buddhasmash]

In computer science terms, I would go with "Neuro*"

Other good choices to get you ready for the pain might be electrical engineering, applied physics, theoretical mechanics, or an honors biochemistry track.

Best choices are things like art, acting, and massage to ensure that by the time you get to med school you aren't too burned out to put up w/ the 4 years there and the subsequent 88 hr/wk residency

I had considered majoring in neuroscience. Unfortunately, though, my school (University of Arkansas) doesn't offer it.

It would be interesting to major in one of the arts, but I want to major in something that could be useful when I graduate, on the chance that I don't get accepted to med school.

 

[latrala2300]

if you think neurosurgery residency programs look at your UNDERGRADUATE MAJOR,

where do you people even come up with this crap from? like, seriously? you dont think your steps and clinical clerkship grades would mean more? and, for something uber competitive like brain surgery--whom you know? just..wow

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Haha

 

[Barcu]

I know that, for the purposes of med school acceptance, it doesn't matter what I major in. I know that humanities and fine arts majors actually have an edge. What I'm concerned with, though, is which undergrad major will best prepare me, intellectually, for the coursework a neurosurgeon resident will have to endure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Any advice?

Forget neurosurgery for now and enjoy college. Then focus on getting into medical school. Those are important steps (and not guaranteed) before you assume that you are going to get into one of the most competitive specialties in all of medicine.

No college major will prepare you for being a neurosurgery resident.

 

[brooklynblunder]

major in something you would be interested in and something non scientific. you wont ever have that chance once you start med school

 

[Buddhasmash]

if you think neurosurgery residency programs look at your UNDERGRADUATE MAJOR,

where do you people even come up with this crap from? like, seriously? you dont think your steps and clinical clerkship grades would mean more? and, for something uber competitive like brain surgery--whom you know? just..wow

I didn't think that my choice of major would actually help me get accepted to a residency program, or even med school in general. I thought I made that pretty clear in my OP. I was asking if there was a particular major that would help me personally prepare for the intellectual rigor of the profession.

To those of you who actually answered my question, thanks for the input.

 

[Food]

I know that, for the purposes of med school acceptance, it doesn't matter what I major in. I know that humanities and fine arts majors actually have an edge. What I'm concerned with, though, is which undergrad major will best prepare me, intellectually, for the coursework a neurosurgeon resident will have to endure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

you are thinking about neurosurgery resident coursework? epic lulz

 

[MisterVeil]

You should major in neurosurgerology with a minor in rocket science.

 

[Richardh]

neurology if not anatomy, physiology might help you prepare!

 

[NickNaylor]

You should major in neurosurgery. It's a new major they have at my school.

 

[Buddhasmash]

I find it quite humorous that the sarcastic, derisive remarks I'm getting are coming almost exclusively from other pre-meds, not medical students or physicians.

 

[Gloves]

intellectually? How bout like... biomedical engineering and neuroscience

 

[rhesuspieces]

Keep in mind that until you hit your clinical years you really have no idea what the field of neurosurgery is really like. Don't box yourself in by deciding on a specialty before you've even decided on an undergrad major!!!

Choose your major with the understanding that you may completely change your mind 5 years from now and want nothing to do with neurosurgery. What interests you? What sort of classes do you envision yourself taking and enjoying?

Also, if you're dedicated enough to the idea of med school, you shouldn't need to worry about choosing a "back-up plan" sort of major. Look around the forums here on SDN and if you can get past the trolls and the gunners you'll see that there are a lot of people who find ways to get into medical school even if all the odds are against them. If you care about it enough, you will succeed (unless you just suck at standardized tests/are incapable of getting a GPA above 3.0. In that case, good luck.)

 

[kevster2001]

If you're interested in the brain, major in neurology, neuroscience, or neurobiology. But keep in mind it will make very little difference in your chances of matching into neurosurgery.

What about neurosurgery appeals to you? If all you're attracted to is the fact that it's prestigious, then someone needs to slap you in the face.

 

[unhappytnt]

I find it quite humorous that the sarcastic, derisive remarks I'm getting are coming almost exclusively from other pre-meds, not medical students or physicians.

It could be because this is the pre-medical forum.

As you said yourself, no major will "prepare" you for neurosurgery itself. If you absolutely want to do something to help you become a neurosurgeon in the future, I'd recommend shadowing to see what the job entails and also doing simple exercises to build hand dexterity. I read many threads about how even the clumsiest people become great surgeons with experience, but you can have an advantage if you acquire these skills earlier.

 

[Food]

I find it quite humorous that the sarcastic, derisive remarks I'm getting are coming almost exclusively from other pre-meds, not medical students or physicians.

True. Allow me to help change that.

*derisive remark*

 

[chiapet874]

At the undergraduate level, your choice of major has little to no effect. The better question would be: "What major should I do to get into a good med school that can GET me into a neurosurgery residency"

and even then, the answer is: doesn't matter

 

[wolverinepwns]

I'm gonna take a wild guess at this and go with "neuroscience" or maybe "dance". see you thought I was kidding with the DANCE but that helps with your purkunjie nerve in your Cerebellum, so you're more balance!!

 

[MilkmanAl]

Nothing you do in college will be all that useful in the first year of med school, let alone prepare you for neurosurgery. Like others said, you're putting the cart way before the horse.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

What major will prepare you for the coursework of a neurology resident?

Dropping out of school and working in a hospital 90 hours a week, I guess.

 

[OtoHNS]

Best preparation:

1. Don't go outside for 6 months except for brief periods at night and before sunrise.
2. Only sleep 3-4 hours a night and hire someone to call you several times randomly each night while you are trying to sleep.
3. Neglect your friends and family.
4. Avoid going to the gym and eat random unhealthy binge meals at odd hours.
5. Practice standing in the same place for 12+ hours.

Enjoy!

 

[QuizzicalApe]

Best preparation:

1. Don't go outside for 6 months except for brief periods at night and before sunrise.
2. Only sleep 3-4 hours a night and hire someone to call you several times randomly each night while you are trying to sleep.
3. Neglect your friends and family.
4. Avoid going to the gym and eat random unhealthy binge meals at odd hours.
5. Practice standing in the same place for 12+ hours.

Enjoy!

Probably wouldn't hurt to find a significant other for the experience of being left by them, too.

 

[Geekchick921]

The best major for ANY aspiring doctor, regardless of specialty, meets the following three criteria.

1. They ENJOY the subject matter.
2. They are able to maintain a 3.5 GPA at LEAST.
3. They have enough space in their schedule to complete the prerequisites for medical school and have time for meaningful commitments to extracurriculars.

Beyond that, it doesn't matter. At all. I believe someone had a link to a spreadsheet not too long ago that showed the miniscule, if any, advantage a science major gave to people taking the MCAT, and there are plenty of nonscience majors that thoroughly cream the MCAT (myself included). Also, anything science-y you major in in undergrad will barely scratch the surface of the volume and depth of material you will cover in medical school.

 

[Buddhasmash]

SU1989: Thanks. I hadn't thought of the hand exercises.

Kevster: I originally became interested in neurology in general when my grandfather developed alzheimer's disease. Judging from what I've read, neuroprosthesis is the future of alzheimer's treatment (along with a whole host of other neurological diseases). I want to research new methods of installing said prostheses, and I feel that training as a neurosurgeon would most effectively prepare me for that research.

 

[HawaiiHereICome]

Best preparation:

1. Don't go outside for 6 months except for brief periods at night and before sunrise.
2. Only sleep 3-4 hours a night and hire someone to call you several times randomly each night while you are trying to sleep.
3. Neglect your friends and family.
4. Avoid going to the gym and eat random unhealthy binge meals at odd hours.
5. Practice standing in the same place for 12+ hours.

Enjoy!

*raises hand* oooh oooh I WANT THIS JOB!!!

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And on a more serious note don't worry about neurosurgery prep as a premed. Statistically speaking it is very likely you won't even get into medical school. So here's my advice. You want to be a neurosurgeon? Do everything to prep to be a doctor first. id est do everything to make sure you get into medical school. You're still a freshy... and most of you guys don't know "how hard" it is to get through premedical coursework. (is it really hard? Well for some people) I remember this cute blonde I once bumped into who told me, "I'm gonna be a doctor" *big shining white smile*

Yah she's desperately trying to get accepted into the nursing program now

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At my university, the "drop out/change of major" rate for premed or biology is approximately 60 percent (pers comm. the health careers office). Furthermore, the rate of acceptance for those who make it far enough to even consider taking the mcat is 46.1% (AAMC: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm)

Do not take lightly the task of getting into medical school.

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If you want advice on what you can do to make sure you rock your prereq courses and the mcat pm me.

 

[searun]

Neurosurgeons, for the most part, are a miserable unhappy group of people with low levels of career satisfaction.

 

[akinetopsia]

We're sorry but all of our neurosurgeons are currently busy being productive, doing stuff. The advice you're going to get is from other pre-meds and a handful of med students/residents/attendings that are bored enough to peruse pre-allo.

Major in what you want to major in, if you're a masochist, double major in hard sciences and engineering. I don't think it will prepare you to be a neurosurgeon but assuming you do well, it will reflect well on you, plus you will probably have better study habits and a great work ethic.

 

[AllDay24]

So basically you're trying to prepare for something EIGHT years in advance?

 

[Electronegative]

I've heard students majoring in pre-med for anesthesiology, why not major in pre-med for neurosurgery?

 

[BBender716]

Major in something that takes a billion years to complete, takes a dump on your time and relationships, and then greets you in the end with an underwhelming amount of respect and remaining life.

...or you could major in anything you want.

 

[jrou111]

The best thing to prepare yourself for neurosurgery would be for you to become a part-time auto mechanic.

 

[Buddhasmash]

The message I'm taking away from this thread is, more than anything else: "Don't specialize in neurosurgery. You'll kill yourself before you see 50."

Is it really this severe? The way you guys, and the people over in the neurosurgery forum, characterize it, a neurosurgeon's life is just an abject pit of misery and despair.

 

[OtoHNS]

The message I'm taking away from this thread is, more than anything else: "Don't specialize in neurosurgery. You'll kill yourself before you see 50."

Is it really this severe? The way you guys, and the people over in the neurosurgery forum, characterize it, a neurosurgeon's life is just an abject pit of misery and despair.

From my experience, it's the hardest residency. There are just so many neurosurgical emergencies and they have so many patients in the hospital. I have a tremendous amount of respect for neurosurgeons, but I'd never want their job.
I'm much less familiar with the world of private practice neurosurgery- some of them may be able to have better lifestyles if they exclusively do elective spine cases and somehow avoid taking trauma and head bleed call.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Is it really this severe? The way you guys, and the people over in the neurosurgery forum, characterize it, a neurosurgeon's life is just an abject pit of misery and despair.

Agree with Oto, neurosurgery residency is the hardest. One thinks the other surgical residencies have it rough, but neuro really takes it to eleven.

The people who do neurosurgery are drawn to it inexorably, like moths to a flame. These people are a special breed. They are born, not made.

The nice thing about this situation is that you really can't "prepare" for neurosurgery residency, so don't bother. Enjoy college, work hard, have fun. Try to cultivate some friendships and good memories that you will enjoy for the rest of your life. If the Good Lord Baby Jesus has deemed you a future neurosurgeon it will happen.

After residency some neurosurgeons will continue working bats**t crazy hours, others will bail and find jobs with human schedules. If you want to be performing cutting edge treatments I suspect you will be in the former group.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Best preparation:

1. Don't go outside for 6 months except for brief periods at night and before sunrise.
2. Only sleep 3-4 hours a night and hire someone to call you several times randomly each night while you are trying to sleep.
3. Neglect your friends and family.
4. Avoid going to the gym and eat random unhealthy binge meals at odd hours.
5. Practice standing in the same place for 12+ hours.

Enjoy!

This reminds me of preparation for the Navy:

1. Paint a dumpster gray.
2. Live in it.

 

[WorldChanger36]

The message I'm taking away from this thread is, more than anything else: "Don't specialize in neurosurgery. You'll kill yourself before you see 50."

Is it really this severe? The way you guys, and the people over in the neurosurgery forum, characterize it, a neurosurgeon's life is just an abject pit of misery and despair.

If you can't decide your major why do you really think you want to do neurosurgery? From what I am told most med student aren't even to sure what they want to do until their third year. Take your time and enjoy what you have... If you are not sure about what you want to major in don't worry about it. Just take your pre-med pre recs ( Bio, gen chem, alg phys, O.Chem 1 &2) and take a few recommendeds like Ecolgy, genetics, Biochem. Then stick your hand for one or two classes in the major "jars" that you think you may like. Also Shadow a few times with a few MD docs and DO docs. Ask lots of questions and ask yourself if medicine seems right to you. Ask one of the DOs for a letter of rec incase you apply to a DO school or two. Vollenteer in a childrens clinic and a regular old hospital. Ask yourself again if you could do this for the rest of your life. Take a class with a professor you maybe interested in doing research or Directed study with and if your still interested do that research.
There is no race to get to med school so take your time and get it done right the first time. If med school is really what you want then undergrad is only realivant in terms of overall GPA, BCMP GPA, and letter of rec.

 

[gettheleadout]

OP, unless you have shadowed multiple neurosurgeons and observed the work for many, many hours, had a close family member go through the process to observe first hand the stress it entails to get there, and also have 1 or both parents practicing neurosurgery to know how much they're never around, I'm going to assume you don't have concrete reasons for why you want to do neurosurgery above any other specialty, or why you think you'd be able to handle it. Like everyone else said, med school itself makes undergrad look like a joke in terms of coursework and time commitment, so there is absolutely nothing you can do to prepare yourself for spending 80+ hours/week working in such a high stress position. Try and get an acceptance first, then see how it goes from there.

Also, residents don't have "coursework"...

 

[bobp315]

The best major for ANY aspiring doctor, regardless of specialty, meets the following three criteria.

1. They ENJOY the subject matter.
2. They are able to maintain a 3.5 GPA at LEAST.
3. They have enough space in their schedule to complete the prerequisites for medical school and have time for meaningful commitments to extracurriculars.

Beyond that, it doesn't matter. At all. I believe someone had a link to a spreadsheet not too long ago that showed the miniscule, if any, advantage a science major gave to people taking the MCAT, and there are plenty of nonscience majors that thoroughly cream the MCAT (myself included). Also, anything science-y you major in in undergrad will barely scratch the surface of the volume and depth of material you will cover in medical school.

That. And don't get all settled on neuro surg. You have a long way to go before you have to decide your specialty (so do I). Oh, and Go Hogs by the way.

 

[csmittyB]

I know that, for the purposes of med school acceptance, it doesn't matter what I major in. I know that humanities and fine arts majors actually have an edge. What I'm concerned with, though, is which undergrad major will best prepare me, intellectually, for the coursework a neurosurgeon resident will have to endure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

You are going about this all wrong. Don't worry about residency, worry about the MCAT. Your entire future is based on that test. With that said, you should quadruple major in Biology, Physics, Chemistry and English to prepare for it. Make sure you get nothing less than a 14 in each section. Otherwise, you will have no shot at being a neurosurgeon (Neurosurg PD's call the AAMC to find out your MCAT).

Good luck

/sarcasm

 

[Shaptown]

it doesnt matter!!!

 

[Shaptown]

in fact, 5, 6, 7 years from now when you are rotating, I bet ANYTHING you will change your preferred specialty

 

[OtoHNS]

Also, residents don't have "coursework"...

Actually, this is not true. Most residents spend 2-5 hours a week in dedicated didactic/lecture time. Topics covered are usually set by the national academy or residency review committee for each specialty. ENT for example, had a 2 year rotating series of topics that eventually get tested on our boards (as well as the yearly inservice exam). There's certainly much more independent studying required, but everything you need to know is described in a syllabus somewhere.

 

[medhearter]

I did my undergraduate degree in Neuroscience, and I have thesis research in brain repair from my undergrad years. I'm currently a 1st-year medical student, and I'm shadowing a Neurosurgeon. Its much easier to pick things up and have a discussion and ask the right questions because of the background I have. I'm also guessing that it'll be easier to get into a Neurosurgical research position summer after first year (hoping). I only recently discovered I was interested in Neurosurgery (this past September when somebody pointed it out to me that it made perfect sense based in my personality). But I had pursued the undergrad major and the undergrad research project simply out of curiosity for the topic at the time.

I don't know if its a good idea to tell you to do something for preparing you for something 8 years down the line. There's too much risk that you'd be looking too far long term and not really paying attention to what you really want and how you really feel about a subject. Do what feels good, study what intrigues you at present. I feel that you literally are too young unless there are already clear life experiences you've had for an extended period of time that are pushing you toward surgery and neurosurgery. As the years move forward continue to do and study what you find interesting, and soon you'll be in a position when it would be more appropriate for you to be somewhat determined towards a certain specialty.

 

[medhearter]

The message I'm taking away from this thread is, more than anything else: "Don't specialize in neurosurgery. You'll kill yourself before you see 50."

Is it really this severe? The way you guys, and the people over in the neurosurgery forum, characterize it, a neurosurgeon's life is just an abject pit of misery and despair.

I am currently shadowing a neurosurgeon. I had asked him the day I met him (the day I waited 6 hours for him to come out of a surgery that was running longer than expected) how he deals with the stress of the long hours. He appeared slightly confused at the remark for a brief moment but understood and replied "You see. It's not about stress. This is what I love doing. When I enter the operating room, its like I am in the most beautiful place there is to be, and there is a symphony, and I'm doing something inanely interesting. Once the surgery starts I have no need to to realize how the time passes. "

thats not something that just about anyone can say. neurosurgeons really can work very long hours. remember dr. ben carson's 28-hour craniopagus separation ? but the point is, that is what excites them.

i know both dr. carson and the individual i'm shadowing are married and are very happy in their personal lives. but not everybody can be like them. not everyone is meant to be a neurosurgeon. not everyone would enjoy it as much as they do.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I agree that it won't help as far as the application goes. Although, for the record, some programs do look at undergrad stuff, however unimportant it might be. Furthermore, research publications from undergrad are also useable.

As far as interests go, I have to say that my interest in n-surg has a lot to do with my undergrad exposure to neuro. My med school neuro class happened to be pretty crappy. And, it's so fast paced that there's not a lot of (any) time to enjoy the interesting parts. Most of the students in my class with no prior exposure came away with a foul taste in their mouth. So, for me, I probably wouldn't be into neurosurgery if I hadn't majored in neuro and taken a lot of neurosciency psychology classes. Just food for thought.

 

[Robinson Crusoe]

Major in piano performance. Got to work on those fine motor skills.

 

[gettheleadout]

Actually, this is not true. Most residents spend 2-5 hours a week in dedicated didactic/lecture time. Topics covered are usually set by the national academy or residency review committee for each specialty. ENT for example, had a 2 year rotating series of topics that eventually get tested on our boards (as well as the yearly inservice exam). There's certainly much more independent studying required, but everything you need to know is described in a syllabus somewhere.

Didn't know that! Learn something new everyday