British nurses must turn hospital beds towards Mecca 5 times per day

[Maxwell Edison]

nothing wrong with talking about religion but it always ends up hostile on SDN.

Strange isn't it? You'd think that people who were applying to medical school would have a slightly more mild take on touchy personal subjects. I'm sure they do in interviews...

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[armybound]

Strange isn't it? You'd think that people who were applying to medical school would have a slightly more mild take on touchy personal subjects. I'm sure they do in interviews...

gotta learn to take things as they come and turn even the most serious of situations into some kind of joke or you're going to mentally implode with guilt and frustration.

 

[Vihsadas]

The medical establishment is already very stressed at the level of front-lines workers. We can't be satisfying these types of requests. It's just not feasible.

 

[paki20]

this story sounds weird...first of all why wouldnt the nurses leave the patients facing towards Mecca 24/7 rather than turning them every single time it was time for prayer..also you are exempt from prayers if you are very ill (but i can understand most patients will still pray to get as much reward and forgiveness from G-d especially at a vulnerable time of their life and/or if they have only a short amount of time to live..human nature..people always remember G-d at a time of crisis..)

 

[Phenol312]

you're making a joke out of someone's religious beliefs, w. t. f.

are you for real

Why are you so shocked by this? Have you turned on a TV in the past few years...i guess? Nothing is sacred anymore. In a way it's kind of ok though...because if you want to go and make a few cracks about catholics i have to be tolerant just because so many people make cracks about muslims and catholics are getting bashed...just look at family guy or south park.

Some people relieve their stress through making jokes about the most serious of things...it never hurts once in awhile to take off our social blinders and have a good laugh at ourselves.

meh...just my thoughts. Remember we all look the same on the inside people.

 

[TexanGirl]

Well, actually this thread was about a law FORCING doctors to assist their patients in praticing their religious beliefs. I made the argument that this would be bad, because it sets a precedent that health care practicioners must honor their patients religious requrests and that such a precedent could force health care providers to also honor the religious requests of religous extremists. I don't mind turning a Muslim's bed so that it faces east. The second that becomes mandated by law, however, it establishes a precedent that might force me to spend what would have been my few minutes of sleep on call running between a Baptist who needs an exorcism for his epilepsy, an extremist Muslim who got turfed to me because he can't be seen by a Jewish doctor, and a Scientologist who needs me to surgically remove his Thetans.

Perrot, I, too, would be quite uncomfortable with a law that allowed preferential treatment to Muslims in hospitals; however, I don't think that's the case here. It seems as though it was entirely the hospital's discretion to implement these measures to improve the quality of service in Dewsbury hospitals. Muslim patients aren't demanding anything. It was only implemented after "Dewsbury and District Hospital canvassed patients on how staff could improve their service." It's a laudable effort to reach out the Muslim population, but seems to be more cumbersome to the staff than helpful to the patients. It would be more useful (and PC) to have generic interfaith prayer rooms for anyone to use. Patients who are bed-ridden aren't expected to pray in the same way in the Islamic faith; they can be sitting or lying down. So, concessions made by the staff to assist the Muslim patients are unnecessary, although nice.

Making halal food and fresh water available to wash before prayer, however, would be necessary (and reasonable) requests.

 

[TexanGirl]

well yeah, that makes sense. I just figured sometimes people wouldn't have a chance to find somewhere private. unless somewhere like a bathroom is acceptable.

what's this about running water? I've seen people have to wash their feet before they pray I think? so maybe a bathroom would be acceptable? I've never walked in a bathroom and seen someone praying though.

First off, the area around which you pray has to be clean and sanitary, which pretty much rules out any public bathroom. I'm not sure if praying in a bathroom is mukrooh (not advised) or haram (not permitted at all) but I know it should not be done.

The reason I ask is because prayer does have a profound health effect, and so manipulating beds could be considered good medicine. Problematically, when you start working to accommodate every religious need, it would become difficult to run a hospital (but this is a slippery slope argument, which generally means bull****, IMHO).

I agree, which is why hospitals should accommodate basic religious needs such as prayer and diet restrictions. Prayer can have healing effects -- both for the mind and body. The Islamic way of praying, in particular, is very physical (lots of standing, bending, prostrating, etc), and can look very much like yoga. Hero pose, child's pose, anyone?

 

[pakbabydoll]

this is actually the question I had.. is it against religious belief to just remain facing Mecca all day? it seems like the simple solution is just to turn the bed toward Mecca and keep the bed facing that way. but I don't know the rituals.. can anyone enlighten me?

Well, your feet are not suppose to face that way like if you are lying down but other then that it's no big deal.
It is kind of stupid because if you are sick you don't have to bug everyone about turning beds you can just pray whichever way you are facing. I agree with the nurses.

agree, which is why hospitals should accommodate basic religious needs such as prayer and diet restrictions. Prayer can have healing effects -- both for the mind and body. The Islamic way of praying, in particular, is very physical (lots of standing, bending, prostrating, etc), and can look very much like yoga. Hero pose, child's pose, anyone?

Diet restrictions I understand, but if someone has their bed turned to face Mecca 5 times day I hardly think that person would stand up to pray. That person would most likely end up praying lying down or maybe sitting.

Praying in a bathroom is macro (not advised), I would not want to put my face near the bathrooms floor . its something thats just not done. I have seen people do it in streets though.


These flame wars are getting really old guys.

The hospital asked how they can make the stay better and the patients told them how. It does not say anything about patients COMPLAINING to the hospital. So the medical staff should have a word with the administration. Most hospitals have chapels and prayer can be done there. My mom regularly prays in our hospitals chapel. Praying is something a person does for him/her self. Making a big deal out of it is just plain stupid. As far as bed ridden patients go they can do it in whatever position they are in. Running water is good but water in a bowl is ok too.

 

[geneticboya]

Well, your feet are not suppose to face that way like if you are lying down but other then that it's no big deal.
It is kind of stupid because if you are sick you don't have to bug everyone about turning beds you can just pray whichever way you are facing. I agree with the nurses.

Well if you are sick, your feet are supposed to be facing mecca. I don't think it is trivial. The nurses that fox news interviewed must be lazy, if they think turning a couple bed a few times a day is too much.

 

[pakbabydoll]

Well if you are sick, your feet are supposed to be facing mecca. I don't think it is trivial. The nurses that fox news interviewed must be lazy, if they think turning a couple bed a few times a day is too much.

Nurses usually have around 6-7 patients, it is a lot of work. Your head is suppose to be facing Mecca not your feet. Besides hospital rooms are small and what if its a 180 turn to face Mecca? Try doing that in a hospital room with iv's and monitors, and everything else that there.


I would not take Fox too seriously, they love Muslim bashing.

 

[Depakote]

this thread is more suited for Topics in Healthcare...

Moving.

 

[Running Water]

Similar thing happened here in the US.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/25/AR2006102501727.html

Excerpts:
"Some Muslim Cabbies Refuse Fares Carrying Alcohol"

"In England and Australia, there have been reports that Muslim cabdrivers have refused to take passengers with service dogs; many conservative Muslims consider dogs unclean"

In this case, Minneapolis made a good decision to not let this fly--taxi drivers get fined. These drivers do not have a g-d given right to drive a taxi--therefore they must be accommodating to the public and companies they work for. They can not expect the city to be accommodating of their non-accommodating behaviors.

Both cases to me represent unreasonable requests. They are unreasonable as they infringe on another person's life, liberty, happiness etc. (nurses, people who want to ride the cab, the other patients in a hospital that nurses have to spend less time with as they are busy moving beds).

Peace

 

[LearningAlways]

No, you can face Mecca all day. I don't quite understand why they would move the beds 5 times a day. Maybe the nurses are massive and the doctors would like some eye candy, this might be exercise!

No, it's because Fox News is not a reliable source of accurate information. Can anyone here imagine working at a hospital that would have the nurses turn the beds back after turning them towards Mecca - especially when the process would need to be repeated 5 times that day?

I think we can all imagine this kind of thing flying in a hospital for maybe 2 or 3 days, but halfway through the 2nd day the nurses would simply stop turning the beds back. Human beings are somewhat intelligent, it doesn't take them long to learn; even nurses. Even if this is official administrative policy, it is not in practice the way Fox News wants everyone to believe. It's Fox News that is trying to start beef where there likely is none.

I could easily see the actual policy of the hospital being that Muslims who want to face Mecca to pray must be accomodated - and then Fox News points out that Muslims must face Mecca to pray five times per day in such a way that is intentionally misleading readers into believing that the beds are being moved back and forth all day long with no time for other nursing activities - in order to sew ill intent towards Muslims in the minds of the general population. That's my theory about what's going on here, because I know Fox News too well and they don't even try to cover up their bias on most issues; unless you count outright lies and blatantly misleading omissions.

 

[wanabdoc]

are you trying to start some beef?

knowing this forum, when it involves religion, i anticipate lots of beef... not the kind you get in your Big Mac

you're opening up the "beef" box

your question isn't a problem, it's how other people will respond and argue continuously that will cause the beef

why don't you look around on the forum, which religion thread has NOT baked up beefcake?

told ya, the beef has already started, seeeeeeeeeeeeee?

keep pouring gasoline on the fire

this is just getting bad, want to add some candles on that beefcake?

y'all are cracking jokes about something sacred to a lot of people

stop while you're ahead

How are you in anyway not contributing to the fire? And sthu about beef.

 

[LearningAlways]

^See Above^

Exactly, regardless of what position you take, one can't say "I don't want to turn this into a flame-war...but I still want to get in my licks;" and expect to be taken seriously. Well, I suppose one can say and expect those things, but they'd likely be disappointed.

 

[zenman]

Here in Dhaka, I've never heard of anyone moving their hospital beds around. Just turn your head to whatever direction you want. however, I can certainly ask a smart Muslim. Just give me a minute ...should be a couple within 25 feet.

 

[gujuDoc]

Ugh, turn 'em and leave 'em. Then they can get back to their tabloids.

What do hospitals in Muslim countries do?

I know what you mean. Besides according to islam, the sick are excused from haing to follow the prayer guidelines if it is not possible to be able to physically do so. If they do eventually get better they can make up for it at a later date. Its the same thing with fasting. If you are ill you are excused from having to fast.

 

[omrfmrz]

As an American Muslim ive noticed that muslims in the UK have a particular disposition for confrontation....alot of it having to do with their social/economic status...dont get me wrong, alot of them are great people but alot of them also like to start stuff unecessarily...in Islam we are taught there is "no compulsion in religion" meaning that there are often things prescribed for us but in situations where it is not possible to follow such guidlines then God is oft forgiving....so facing Mecca when in the hospital is something that really doesnt require such a confrontation. Intentions are everything and God can hear your prayers no matter which direction you face.

 

[Nasrudin]

As an American Muslim ive noticed that muslims in the UK have a particular disposition for confrontation....alot of it having to do with their social/economic status...dont get me wrong, alot of them are great people but alot of them also like to start stuff unecessarily...in Islam we are taught there is "no compulsion in religion" meaning that there are often things prescribed for us but in situations where it is not possible to follow such guidlines then God is oft forgiving....so facing Mecca when in the hospital is something that really doesnt require such a confrontation. Intentions are everything and God can hear your prayers no matter which direction you face.

That possibly and then the Fox is the hen house up to its usual ****. Law or no law, beef or no beef, there is not a buried in 7-patients-deep medsurg nurse in this country who worry too much about about breaking their back moving beds around according to the compass setting preference of their patients in their spare time. Or in the motherland for that matter. Ask me to move a bed in between keeping up with work and charting and I would laugh at you and I read the word of the adepts. I doubt this has any real impact on the floors her majesty's or otherwise.

 

[justwondering]

oh yeaaaaaaaa....

You can have any kind of sex with your fiance or wife. Your imagination is the only limitation...

wht? u cant sleep with ur fiance. u have to be married, dude.

why are there multiple muslim threads on sdn now? even a good-intentioned thread will get offensive eventually. like all religion threads here.