Can I quit my practicum??

[AcronymAllergy]

I agree with Ollie; it's a pretty horrid situation, and they're definitely abusing the power differential in this situation by holding the grade over you like that. It sounds like you did an excellent job of attempting to set boundaries, but unfortunately, trainees are often in the "one down" position relative to supervisors, especially when your DCT isn't supporting you. Thus, there's only so much you can do, particularly when up against what I would at this point call an abusive site.

At least you're now a month and a half closer to being finished with the whole thing. You could always consider raising your concerns with your supervisors' supervisors, the hospital board of directors, etc. It may not benefit you directly, but could help future externs out down the line. You could also mention it (and your DCT's behavior) to the APA and/or leadership at your university (e.g., department head, grad school dean, etc.).

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[Ollie123]

At least you're now a month and a half closer to being finished with the whole thing. You could always consider raising your concerns with your supervisors' supervisors, the hospital board of directors, etc. It may not benefit you directly, but could help future externs out down the line. You could also mention it (and your DCT's behavior) to the APA and/or leadership at your university (e.g., department head, grad school dean, etc.).

Even if you don't do it now, I'd strongly consider this down the road. Obviously think about whether or not these people are likely to have any influence over your career. If it were me, I'd probably wait til I had the degree in hand and then start pouring the gasoline, but I can be vindictive like that Its usually a bad idea to burn bridges, but sometimes its necessary and to the benefit of others. Just make certain you are in a position where it won't affect your career before doing so.

Edit: Oh, and don't be embarrassed about the situation. Assuming everything you said is true, your DCT is the one who should be embarrassed. Cowardice among administrators is the source of so many problems in higher education.

 

[edieb]

Wow, that really is unfortunate. I think your DCT is giving you false information regarding a failing grade "following you around forever" though. Your school's APA status, your internship's APA status and, possibly, having a few good relationships facuty in your school (if you're going to be asking for letters for employment from them) are really all that matters when you finish your degree.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Print out this thread and present our responses/arguments to your DCT. She should see them.

If your side is 100% true, no ethical and reasonable academic faculty/psychologist could see this as anything but 1.) A training site that wants free slave labor and not to train/supervise. 2.) A DCT that has been derelict in her duty to protect you from exploitation and ensure proper academic training. Period.

**Please remember you signed a "contract" (or whatever) to be a practicum student and for them to provide training. They signed something too, Im sure, right? They have deal they have to keep too. You committed to be a apracticum student who recives training until X date. This not a blank check. You did not sign up to work there until X date no matter what, right?!

That's funny you said that, my husband told me to print out this thread back in March and show it to her, because he agreed with what everybody said here, and he absolutely detests the way this site treats me. Maybe I should wait until I am done with the practicum to do that? I seriously can't even stand to be around her anymore, and listen to any more idle threats.

She doesn't care about the quality of training we get, or about the slave labor. A friend of mine, at another site, expressed concern to the DCT because she wasn't getting enough supervision (she was getting it like once a month). All of our contracts state that we have to get supervision two hours weekly, but this, like the whole no more than 20 hours a week thing dictated by the school, was just ignored, because that would mean she would actually have to hold my friend's site accountable. I agree that she has been derelict in her duty to protect me (and others) from exploitation. I don't think she will last long, honestly. She's awful. Since this whole thing started, I have heard a lot of stories about her just refusing to get involved with practicum site issues.

I really really tried with the contract, brought in a copy to show her, and pointed out the "18 hours a week" signed by both me and one of my supervisors at the site. She would always say the same thing, "you knew how it would be," "your hours average out." When I would point out that they actually average out to a lot more than 20 hours a week, she would say, "this site is different with its demands, you knew that." We would just go in circles, it was maddening! Plus, even if the hours DID average out to 20 hours a week (40 hours one week, 10 hours the next week), that's still ridiculous for a practicum site IMO, that is, working 40 hours a week (even if it's only every other week).

 

[miserable at practicum]

I agree with Ollie; it's a pretty horrid situation, and they're definitely abusing the power differential in this situation by holding the grade over you like that. It sounds like you did an excellent job of attempting to set boundaries, but unfortunately, trainees are often in the "one down" position relative to supervisors, especially when your DCT isn't supporting you. Thus, there's only so much you can do, particularly when up against what I would at this point call an abusive site.

At least you're now a month and a half closer to being finished with the whole thing. You could always consider raising your concerns with your supervisors' supervisors, the hospital board of directors, etc. It may not benefit you directly, but could help future externs out down the line. You could also mention it (and your DCT's behavior) to the APA and/or leadership at your university (e.g., department head, grad school dean, etc.).

Thank you for saying that AA, that makes me feel a lot better. I have thought about talking to the hospital board of directors about my supervisors, and to the department chair about my DCT. My adviser now knows about everything that has happened, and is really shocked by the whole thing, I wouldn't be surprised if she talked to the department chair. But (and I know this sounds horrible), I am terrified of talking to anybody until I graduate. I was so surprised at how my DCT handled this situation that I just want to lay low until I am done. I have steered future externs discreetly, when students ask me about applying to the site, and what my experience has been like.

 

[WisNeuro]

! Plus, even if the hours DID average out to 20 hours a week (40 hours one week, 10 hours the next week), that's still ridiculous for a practicum site IMO.

The site does sound horrible, and I am sorry for that, but 20 hours a week is pretty standard for sites I am familiar with. In our later years when we did focused practicums, we were commonly there 2-3 days a week. I did 2.5 days/20 hours a week for a year at an academic medical center. But, that was the expectation I had going in. They never tried to make me work well over those hours ever.

 

[MCParent]

If they try to fail you, file a complaint with the APA ethics office about it.

https://apa.org/ethics/complaint/index.aspx

It sounds like you have documentation. It is ridiculous that your DCT is not supporting you.

Actually, that amount of time probably violates grad school rules too. I'd go to your Dean as well.

 

[MCParent]

She doesn't care about the quality of training we get, or about the slave labor. A friend of mine, at another site, expressed concern to the DCT because she wasn't getting enough supervision (she was getting it like once a month).

Yeah, stuff like this. This is an ethical violation.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Even if you don't do it now, I'd strongly consider this down the road. Obviously think about whether or not these people are likely to have any influence over your career. If it were me, I'd probably wait til I had the degree in hand and then start pouring the gasoline, but I can be vindictive like that Its usually a bad idea to burn bridges, but sometimes its necessary and to the benefit of others. Just make certain you are in a position where it won't affect your career before doing so.

Edit: Oh, and don't be embarrassed about the situation. Assuming everything you said is true, your DCT is the one who should be embarrassed. Cowardice among administrators is the source of so many problems in higher education.

Yeah, I just responded to AA saying I am afraid to talk to anybody until after I graduate. I agree that it is for the benefit of others, and you're right, it's not great to burn bridges, but I don't think people take them too seriously.

Thank you. You're right, my DCT should be embarrassed. I have thought long and hard about everything – what am I possibly doing that could be making this situation worse? I think, it can't possibly be all my site's fault? But all I can come up with is the things my site complains about – those two extensions, not being flexible (not editing a draft at 11 PM) – things like that. If it is reasonable to expect a practicum student to sit by the computer waiting for a draft to come through all evening, and then to drop everything and edit the report at 11 PM, then I am guilty of not always complying because I simply can't sometimes (but I often do edit reports at 11 PM! just not always).

 

[miserable at practicum]

The site does sound horrible, and I am sorry for that, but 20 hours a week is pretty standard for sites I am familiar with. In our later years when we did focused practicums, we were commonly there 2-3 days a week. I did 2.5 days/20 hours a week for a year at an academic medical center. But, that was the expectation I had going in. They never tried to make me work well over those hours ever.

Thank you. Yeah, all of my practicum sites have been 20 hours a week, sometimes more, but never to this extreme. Like I would work (2) 10 hour days at these sites, and then sometimes a little more on weekends. Completely reasonable, and I liked these sites, and never minded at all. If the site I am at now only had me working 20 hours per week, I would be thrilled. It's the 4o hours one week, then 15 + hours the next week, and then back to 40 hours the next week that I have a problem with. Especially because I often have no advance notice.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Wow, that really is unfortunate. I think your DCT is giving you false information regarding a failing grade "following you around forever" though. Your school's APA status, your internship's APA status and, possibly, having a few good relationships facuty in your school (if you're going to be asking for letters for employment from them) are really all that matters when you finish your degree.

I wish I knew (about the whole failing grade following me around)! I feel like if I have put up with this place for nine months, it's not worth it to find out. But I hate being intimidated like this. I do have very good relationships with the faculty at my school, as well as with my previous practicum sites.

 

[miserable at practicum]

If they try to fail you, file a complaint with the APA ethics office about it.

https://apa.org/ethics/complaint/index.aspx

It sounds like you have documentation. It is ridiculous that your DCT is not supporting you.

Actually, that amount of time probably violates grad school rules too. I'd go to your Dean as well.

I do have documentation, yes. Part of me is afraid to file a complaint until after I have graduated, but part of me knows that what has happened is unethical, so I shouldn't be afraid. If I get a failing grade, I would ABSOLUTELY file a complaint the second it happened – that is the ONLY reason I am remaining at this practicum site, because I fear getting a failing grade. And because my DCT said I would have to call my internship site and tell them I quit (no idea if this is true, if it depends on the school, or what).

 

[smalltownpsych]

If it were me, at this point, I would probably just duck my head and try to get through the last couple of months with as little conflict as possible. It sounds like you took some reasonable steps and received little support. Chalk it up as an experience on the path to becoming a psychologist and keep moving forward.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

RE: the failing grade, it can follow you around, but only so much as sites choose to look at your transcripts. I can't lie in this respect--for some folks, it's going to throw up a red flag, particularly this late in your grad school career (e.g., they may erroneously think you developed "senioritis" after matching for internship and began shirking your responsibilities). Pass/fail courses and clinical practica in particular tend to raise folks' attention if a non-passing grade is received, so if nothing else, it's probably something about which you should develop a coherent, fair/balanced, and concise narrative to describe what happened (assuming you do withdraw and do receive the failing grade). Given that the rest of your grades and experiences sound fine, this probably won't be hard to do.

All that being said, if anyone after post-doc looks at your transcripts for more than just to verify that you have a degree, I'd be shocked. Thus, I'd imagine fellowship is about the last place it might cause you any difficulty.

 

[miserable at practicum]

If it were me, at this point, I would probably just duck my head and try to get through the last couple of months with as little conflict as possible. It sounds like you took some reasonable steps and received little support. Chalk it up as an experience on the path to becoming a psychologist and keep moving forward.

That is the plan! Thank you.

RE: the failing grade, it can follow you around, but only so much as sites choose to look at your transcripts. I can't lie in this respect--for some folks, it's going to throw up a red flag, particularly this late in your grad school career (e.g., they may erroneously think you developed "senioritis" after matching for internship and began shirking your responsibilities). Pass/fail courses and clinical practica in particular tend to raise folks' attention if a non-passing grade is received, so if nothing else, it's probably something about which you should develop a coherent, fair/balanced, and concise narrative to describe what happened (assuming you do withdraw and do receive the failing grade). Given that the rest of your grades and experiences sound fine, this probably won't be hard to do.

All that being said, if anyone after post-doc looks at your transcripts for more than just to verify that you have a degree, I'd be shocked. Thus, I'd imagine fellowship is about the last place it might cause you any difficulty.

AA - yes, I was thinking this exactly, it might looked like I matched and then was like, forget it, I don't need this practicum, and withdrew. At this point, I am going to just stick it out. I have made it 9 months, I will just hang in there for another 6 weeks. If I was going to leave, it would have happened in April, but it didn't, because I had no support and was nervous about leaving. My grades and reviews from other practica are very good, so it would suck to have a failing grade as my last grade in graduate school! While I am going to stay, thank you for your input re: having a failing grade.

 

[psychRA]

This is very disturbing. I didn't have a great relationship with my own DCT (not bad, not good), but I couldn't imagine them defending the site in a situation like this one. At the very minimum, my program might have said something like "It's up to you decide whether to continue your practicum there, but we're not going to allow any future students to do a placement there until we've met with the supervisor and reached a satisfactory agreement about reasonable expectations for practicum students."

I understand that your DCT wants to preserve practicum options for students, and may be concerned about alienating this particular supervisor and/or clinic, but from what you've described, this is not an appropriate training experience. And I'm betting that your DCT also wants to preserve your program's good standing with the APA, so s/he should also be concerned about what students will have to say about their training experiences during the next site visit. If others in your program are aware of your experience (and I encourage you to share it, if only to give other students a realistic sense of what it's like to work at this site), this could very well come up during reaccreditation even if you don't take it up with the APA ethics office after you graduate.

I agree that you're probably going to have to stick it out for bit longer, but that doesn't mean that your DCT is in the right on this one.

 

[erg923]

I understand that your DCT wants to preserve practicum options for students, and may be concerned about alienating this particular supervisor and/or clinic, but from what you've described, this is not an appropriate training experience.

Exactly. It doesnt sound like a practicum experience at all. It sounds like a workhouse. Maybe fine for a post-doc who just needs to meet hours requirments for licensure, but not for anyone at the training level.

 

[miserable at practicum]

This is very disturbing. I didn't have a great relationship with my own DCT (not bad, not good), but I couldn't imagine them defending the site in a situation like this one. At the very minimum, my program might have said something like "It's up to you decide whether to continue your practicum there, but we're not going to allow any future students to do a placement there until we've met with the supervisor and reached a satisfactory agreement about reasonable expectations for practicum students."

I understand that your DCT wants to preserve practicum options for students, and may be concerned about alienating this particular supervisor and/or clinic, but from what you've described, this is not an appropriate training experience. And I'm betting that your DCT also wants to preserve your program's good standing with the APA, so s/he should also be concerned about what students will have to say about their training experiences during the next site visit. If others in your program are aware of your experience (and I encourage you to share it, if only to give other students a realistic sense of what it's like to work at this site), this could very well come up during reaccreditation even if you don't take it up with the APA ethics office after you graduate.

I agree that you're probably going to have to stick it out for bit longer, but that doesn't mean that your DCT is in the right on this one.

If she had said something like what you imagined your DCT would say, "it's up to you...," actually, I can't even speculate how I would react because that would never happen!! Which is sad. And makes me angry. This whole thing is so completely ridiculous. Her saying I would have to call my internship, and also saying I would get a failing grade. And flat out refusing to support me because, "I knew how it would be."

No, it is not an appropriate training experience. She wants to preserve the relationship with the site, but she is not looking at the bigger picture. I imagine some students are just keeping quiet until they graduate. Not just from my site, but from a couple of other sites where problems have arisen and nothing has been done. You make a good point. She is not thinking about things like our next site visit (2015). What exactly happens during a site visit by the way? The last one was 2008, before I was there.

If I do want to file a complaint with the APA ethics office after I graduate, would it still be effective as it would be a year later? I am just terrified to say anything to anyone until after I graduate.

Agree, unfortunately, I just have to stick this out. If I left now, I would get a failing grade, meaning that the last nine months of hell would have a permanent mark on my record.

Exactly. It doesnt sound like a practicum experience at all. It sounds like a workhouse. Maybe fine for a post-doc who just needs to meet hours requirments for licensure, but not for anyone at the training level.

You are right, it's not a practicum experience. I think you said this before, it's a forensic workhouse. I honestly don't know how I have made it this long without going completely crazy. I set a new personal record by putting in 51 hours last week. Yet I have become quicker with writing reports. There's always something extra that needs to be done and they take advantage of us. Even if I wasn't swamped with class, dissertation, moving for internship – it's just not right.

Edit: However, the support I have received on this forum has really helped me. I wasn't aware of just how bad the circumstances at this site were until hearing from all of you and your experiences. I really appreciate everybody's support and feedback. I wish I wasn't so afraid to report anything right now, but I am taking everybody's suggestions very seriously – that is, reporting all of this after I graduate.