Caribbean, retake MCAT or just work?

[lsiefe1]

Option 1: CARIBBEAN -I'm 33 and at this point just want to be done with school already which is why I'm leanng towards Ross, AUC or St. Matthews but wasn't sure if this made sense since I hope to do a surgery or EM residency. Is it really as easy as everyone claims to get a residency as an ECFMG?
Undergrad GPA 3.1 BA History
Grad GPA 3.5 MBA Accounting
Pre-req GPA 3.5
MCAT 23N
Options 2: Or should I just do a post bacc like Loyola's MA in Medical Sciences or Rosalind Franklin's MA in Applied Physiology or Midwestern's MS Biomedical Sciences and then just re-apply?
Option 3: Or do I just work another year, retake the MCAT and re-apply?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lsiefe1]

Option 1: CARIBBEAN -I'm 33 and at this point just want to be done with school already which is why I'm leanng towards Ross, AUC or St. Matthews but wasn't sure if this made sense since I hope to do a surgery or EM residency. Is it really as easy as everyone claims to get a residency as an ECFMG?
Undergrad GPA 3.1 BA History
Grad GPA 3.5 MBA Accounting
Pre-req GPA 3.5
MCAT 23N
Options 2: Or should I just do a post bacc like Loyola's MA in Medical Sciences or Rosalind Franklin's MA in Applied Physiology or Midwestern's MS Biomedical Sciences and then just re-apply?
Option 3: Or do I just work another year, retake the MCAT and re-apply?

 

[drizzt3117]

I would lean towards the SMP route, with a MCAT retake in there. With 3.1OA/3.5 BCPM and a MCAT > 30 you should be a great candidate with a SMP. You might want to look at a program like EVMS from which you have a great chance of getting into their med school right out of the SMP.

 

[Lshapley]

I would look at the smp/postbac route. I just finished a one-year postbac, and am the same age as you. In the end, it could even be cheaper for you. School in the carrib is expensive and you would have to relocate from all of your friends and potentially family as well. I would really keep that as a last resort.

There are a lot of questions I would ask too, to help make this decision. What state do you live in? When did you take your last classes? Why the low MCAT score?

 

[gman33]

work on the MCAT and think about some DO schools as well. If you can get the MCAT up to 27-28, you should be competitive at DO schools. There are conflicting views, but graduating from a US school gives you a better shot at a residency.
If you want MD, do a post-bacc as was suggested.

 

[RxnMan]

Take a look at the EM forum. There's a "What are my chances" sticky, as well as a recent thread by a US-citizen, FMG that wants to come back to the US. Read through there and you'll get a better idea of the challenges you might face coming from Ross, etc.

There are some SMPs that have very good histories of getting people in your situation into med school. Georgetown is one, if I remember. Look in the SMP forum for some better numbers there. They can be expensive (~100k or better).

Retaking the MCAT will probably have to happen somewhere along the line for you regardless. As uncompetitive as you are on GPA, you have to more so on MCAT.

Working for a year isn't bad. If you can, build up money reserves, use your off time to study for the MCAT, and plan an effective re-application season.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I would definitely look into osteopathic medical schools. They do the exact same things as MDs, they get paid the same, etc. Getting a surgery or an EM residency is very attainable as are all residency specialties if you're willing to work hard and network. At your age and with your stats, if you are willing to completely leave the country just because you don't want a D.O. after your name, you're probably going into medicine for the wrong reasons.

 

[Meatwad]

While I can't relate to you in age, since I'm quite a bit younger, I feel for your situation. If you really just want to get started, I'd apply to DO schools ASAP. Like the above poster said, they are usually more forgiving. Maybe they will even accept you with that MCAT. Still, I'd schedule for the soonest retake possible. Maybe, if you have great experiences, you can get on a waitlist at a DO school and update them when you retake the MCAT.

If you decide to go to the Caribbean, though, I'd retake the MCAT and apply to SGU. I wouldn't reccomend St Matthew's, since they have been disapproved by the state of California; that means they are not only not approved, but on a special list of schools that California thinks is sub-par. I believe one or two other states also have St Matt's on their no-no list. Ross is a fine school, but the climate there is supposed to be somewhat more caustic than SGU. Plus, they are having problems with getting students into their clinical rotations, from what I've read on valuemd.com

So, I'd say: DO >> SGU, AUC, Saba >=Ross for you.

33 isn't too old, either

 

[Buckeye4life]

Yes, not too old, but not a spring chicken either in med school years. I am 29 and want surgery. 4 years med school, 5 years residency, 1+ years fellowhip (possibly). Gonna be about 40 when I'm finally done. Yes, not too old either, but he may want to get a move on before he needs a total hip replacement.

 

[DocInProgress]

Consider DO schools. With a 23, you may get in somewhere.

 

[Faze2]

Yeah I really think either way you go you should really retake the MCAT and see what happens. With a good score around 30 you will could, could, get into some US schools. I agree with those who said you should look into an SMP, because with a little bit better MCAT, you would be a great candidate for them, and a lot of times you can matriculate that fall after you are finished.

However, Carribean is not the awful, last resort backyard medschool that some people say it is. The top 4 have good prgrams and good matches. Is it a little tougher for some residencies? Yes. But you will not be left in the cold with an MD and no job like a lot of people will have you believe, given that you do well while you are there. You are on your own in some aspects while there, and most of your success depends soley on you, and obviously your Step I and II count for a lot too, but if you do well you can match well too.

 

[jad2121]

Option 1: CARIBBEAN -I'm 33 and at this point just want to be done with school already which is why I'm leanng towards Ross, AUC or St. Matthews but wasn't sure if this made sense since I hope to do a surgery or EM residency. Is it really as easy as everyone claims to get a residency as an ECFMG?
Undergrad GPA 3.1 BA History
Grad GPA 3.5 MBA Accounting
Pre-req GPA 3.5
MCAT 23N
Options 2: Or should I just do a post bacc like Loyola's MA in Medical Sciences or Rosalind Franklin's MA in Applied Physiology or Midwestern's MS Biomedical Sciences and then just re-apply?
Option 3: Or do I just work another year, retake the MCAT and re-apply?

except for your mcat score you are golden. Why would you do a postbac??? just ratake the mcats and get a 30+

 

[Perrotfish]

SMP is a good option, but really all you need is a higher MCAT score. Drexel has an SMP for that exact problem (Drexel MSP, I believe?), but you might be better of financially just studying for the MCAT and getting over a 30.

Caribbean schools are perfectly fine to graduate from, but you need to be aware that a large majority of entering Caribbean classes don't finish the program. Now that makes both the Caribbean and the SMP programs a risk, but as a general rule an SMP will only leave you out 25K, where as teh Caribbean will cost significantly more. For reasons of financial risk alone I'd go with the SMP.

 

[pcu]

SMP is a good option, but really all you need is a higher MCAT score. Drexel has an SMP for that exact problem (Drexel MSP, I believe?), but you might be better of financially just studying for the MCAT and getting over a 30.

Caribbean schools are perfectly fine to graduate from, but you need to be aware that a large majority of entering Caribbean classes don't finish the program. Now that makes both the Caribbean and the SMP programs a risk, but as a general rule an SMP will only leave you out 25K, where as teh Caribbean will cost significantly more. For reasons of financial risk alone I'd go with the SMP.

When you say 25K, you aren't factoring living expenses are you?

 

[lsiefe1]

So the bad news is that I did re-take the MCAT and scored a 24P. I work 2 full time jobs due to some financial obligations I can't get out of until next spring. Taking out study time for the MCATs isn't really an option right now. This is what I am attributing the low MCAT score to. I finished all of my pre-req's in 2005 and live in Chicago. If I have to take the MCAT a 3rd time, I'm not sure how I would do without the additional study time needed to dedicate to a better score, especially since everyday is 1 day further from when I finished my pre-reqs. I called Loyola and they would not accpet me into their post-bacc without a min. 27 on the MCAT. Midwestern has a MS in Biomedical Sciences but it takes 2 years and requires research. Ughh--I'm definitely not into research.

 

[gotmeds?]

Drexel MSP program, designed for low MCAT scores:

http://www.drexelmed.edu/PostBaccalaureatePremedPrograms/Programs/MSPProgram/tabid/669/Default.aspx

Wow. A yearlong MCAT prep course! I'm not sure that this would really look good from an adcomm perspective. I mean, imagine spending a year on MCAT prep and getting a 31. Sure, it's a fine score, but considering you spent a year preparing for it, it would probably look pretty lousy. By the same token, let's say you got a 40. It would just be dismissed as the result of going to this program.

For the OP, I think you're better off taking a more conventional MCAT prep course (or studying on your own) and applying broadly to MD and DO. As previously mentioned, something in the high 20's should put you in the running for DO which is a much better option than the Caribbean.

 

[brianmartin]

Retake your MCAT, you can do better than 23N. That will open up a lot more options.

 

[Instatewaiter]

There are some SMPs that have very good histories of getting people in your situation into med school. Georgetown is one, if I remember. Look in the SMP forum for some better numbers there. They can be expensive (~100k or better).

SMPs wont run you 100K since they are normally 1 year but still can be quite expensive. Georgetown, EVMS, Tulane, BU, U Cinnci, all have standard SMPs. There are also other 1 year graduate programs that dont give a degree but take the first year medical curriculum just like the above programs.

That said the OP is NOT a good candidate for an SMP. These programs are good for people with low GPAs but high MCAT (30+). You would have difficulty getting into an SMP w/ below a 27.

To have a good shot at allo the OP would first have to improve the MCAT considerably and then do some grade remediation. That would take multiple years to accomplish. He/she would be better served applying DO.

Option 1: CARIBBEAN -I'm leaning towards Ross, AUC or St. Matthews Is it really as easy as everyone claims to get a residency as an ECFMG?

Options 2: Or should I just do a post bacc like Loyola's MA in Medical Sciences or Rosalind Franklin's MA in Applied Physiology or Midwestern's MS Biomedical Sciences and then just re-apply?

Option 1: Not a great idea. The education is quite variable as are the clinicals. The attrition rates are atrocious and the path back into the US is not an easy one. ER and Surgery are not out of the realm of possibilities but will be much, much harder than as a US grad (MD or DO)

Option 2: You could do post-bacs but since you are interested in expediting the process you probably should apply DO and if you dont get in retake the MCAT and reapply.

 

[MeowMix]

I understand you want to be done with school, but med school + residency (esp in surgery) will take you another 9 years. One more year to get it together really isn't going to make much of a difference agewise, and could make a big diff $wise.

Getting into residency as an ECFMG will make your life harder and you will have to jump through extra hoops (even in Family Medicine). In a competitive specialty like EM, even US grads are being told to apply to 30 programs this year. It is possible, but do some research and look at the cold hard truth. Going DO is a lot easier than Caribbean.

As far as MCAT, no one is going to think that you only got a 40 b/c you did a year-long prep course. If it was that easy, everyone would do it. Getting a 40 takes excellent understanding, great strategy, and good luck.

 

[miss medulla]

Im usu not in this forum but i saw ur post. I went to medschool in poland , there was a guy in my class who was 33-34 when he came /started . he is now in family medicine residency. i went to med school at 19 ,im now 29 and just now taking all necessary exams. The point is he was older ,and is now working as a physician. i was younger but still obviously immature and wasted time... so in the end we both will start practicing medicine around the same age!! So i say, if ur determined dont settle........ bc trust me it sucks having a paycheck to paycheck job that u dont like. and yes we both took out loans, and we both are american. the only difference is he came home (back to usa, with a polish wife It can be done, ive seen it done, just dont waste time. make a decision and go for it!!
and as for easy to get a residency part...... Trust me, medicine really is a lifetime, lifestyle commitment... Studying is part of your daily routine. ALL THE TImE. The question you should be asking yourself is what r the pass rates of the students for step 1 and 2. all of my friends did well and r in newyork and im waiting for my results today goodluck to all of us

 

[jopdo]

So, I applied to med schools (all allo) 1rst time around and got rejected from all of them. I was 27/28-ish. My MCAT was 23O. Then, retook MCAT did 28-R and reapplied to both allo and osteo. Got waitlisted at allo and got into osteo.

NOW (am 34 and a fourth year)-- there is some difficulty being in th DO world in some respects. I want to be in NYC and there are only a few IM residencies which are DO, which means I have to grapple with going allo. Which means taking COMLEX and USMLE and figuring out the pros and cons of going allo v. osteo. I don't want to leave the osteo community, but, there are a lot more allo programs to choose from. ALSO, I rotate in my electives with a lot of students--osteo and allo from carribean med schools. JUST from my perpspective, I am getting my interview offers from programs than the allo students I know from carribean schools--I am not sure why, but that is something to think about. Also, it seems that there is a lot of anxiety on their part. Atleast I have some options of doing DO or MD, whereas they can only apply MD. But, ultimately, both perspectives seem less than perfect--strictly from a "getting into residency" perspective. If that is your goal, then, your best bet is to do your best and apply allo next year (with some backup plan B--just in case). But, if you are interested in the Osteopathic philosophies, then you should definitely try osteo.

For personal reasons, I am glad not to have done the carribean route--the move alone would have been devastating. The moral of the story though is that all the med students that I have met--allo, osteo, carribean-allo--- are ALL smart and well rounded. Ultimately though, each one carries pros and cons and the decision comes down to what is important to you!

 

[miss medulla]

jopdo,how right u r when you said 'they seem like they have alot of anxiety'. This is soo true, taking the back door is never easy and there is always an insecurity and fear until that wonderful day like today where i can happily say I have passed my boards and going abroad to med school was SOOOOOO WORTH IT!

 

[collegegrad]

Options 2: Or should I just do a post bacc like Loyola's MA in Medical Sciences or Rosalind Franklin's MA in Applied Physiology or Midwestern's MS Biomedical Sciences and then just re-apply?

Are those programs really postbacs??? I thought that they are SMPs.

 

[Meatwad]

Are those programs really postbacs??? I thought that they are SMPs.

Semantics.

Post = after
baccalaureate = bachelor's

Therefore, any classes taken after a bachelor's is post-bacc work. Since all SMPs require a bachelors, they must indeed be post-baccs. Usually on SDN, though, when we say post-bacc we mean undergraduate post-bacc courses. When we mean SMP, we specify it.

Loyola's MA is a post-bacc SMP; same for Midwestern, BU MAMS, G-town, Tulane, etc.

 

[travoltage]

READ THIS NOW!

do not go carribean or foreign...its foolish, you will never land a decent residency...trust me, MD/DO get priorities and you will get the scraps...if you were serious you would not do carribean or foreign

i suggest apply to MD or DO...it will pay off for you and be much easier, NO CARRIBEAN OR FOREIGN...TRUST ME

 

[HristosKaran]

READ THIS NOW!

do not go carribean or foreign...its foolish, you will never land a decent residency...trust me, MD/DO get priorities and you will get the scraps...if you were serious you would not do carribean or foreign

i suggest apply to MD or DO...it will pay off for you and be much easier, NO CARRIBEAN OR FOREIGN...TRUST ME

Wow, that post was fierce!! Although I know a resident who went to Ross and placed a great residency in the hospital I volunteer at, so not always true.

 

[abefromann]

It seems like anything in the US has an advantage over anything "foreign." I would definitely do the DO thing in place of Carribean; you'll get to live in the US, for one thing. There are plenty of DO's I know with amazing residencies (2 off the top of my head landed top 15 dermatology programs).

 

[Linus2007]

Hi I was just reading your post and figure I would just drop my $0.02. I don't know if you'd find it helpful as I applied to med school a long time ago but since I am in the match process/interview right now I have a few things that might be helpful. Your GPA looks really good I tihnk the one thing that is holding you off is the MCAT score. DO and Carribean med school is an option but when applying to residency there is a little bit of a negative stigma attached to these programs. (Not knocking those programs as I have worked with excellent interns/residents/fellow from these programs). Looking ahead down the line if you want to do surgery you really want to get into a big program. A surgical residency value is based on the different types of procedures you see. The big programs will have Transplant accredidation meaning you will see and work with really interesting and unique procedures as opposed to your regular lap chole. Now big programs are competitive which means you need to have really good board scores and grades. The problem with DO and Carribean Med Schools is that the stigma attached to them carries on to residency interviews, meaning their grads have an uphill struggle from the get go. This is looking way way into the future I know but if you can find the time to take off and redo your MCATs and get into a US school it will pay off immensely in the future.

 

[abefromann]

American MD is no doubt the way to go. I just mean if you can go DO with your MCAT, then do it. I don't know how many years you have to lose trying to take the MCAT over. If you've got time, then what hey.

 

[Blade28]

A surgical residency value is based on the different types of procedures you see. The big programs will have Transplant accredidation meaning you will see and work with really interesting and unique procedures as opposed to your regular lap chole.

While the first part of the above quote is true, I tend to disagree with the second part - just because a General Surgery residency program has a strong affiliated Transplant fellowship doesn't mean you get to scrub into more interesting cases.

For the most part, the fellows are doing these cases, if you're talking kidneys, livers, pancreases, islet cells or even small bowels.

Now heart and lung transplants, you may get a chance to participate, but that's part of the Cardiothoracic department, which is completely separate.

Bottom line, when looking at surgery residencies, consider other factors (covered in extenso over in the Surgery forum).

OK, end of thread hijack.