cGPA 3.4 sGPA 3.26 MD/DO chances?

[LoveCakeNThings]

Hi There,

So I've taken the MCAT twice already, and I'm not sure if I want to wait to take it again.

1st mcat, i wasn't ready - 8
2nd mcat, was the day after my best friend died - 13
3rd mcat planned may 14th 2016 ...still unsure if I want to wait. I've just completed TPR course, my highest practice exam is 488 right now.

Reason's to wait, I have not taken orgo II, phys I & II. I was going to take them this summer and the fall & then apply next cycle.

I have a Master's of Science in Pain Research Education and Policy, GPA 3.4, I have tons of extra curriculars.
I also work in a primary care clinic, where I've had plenty of plenty of shadowing experience, and I work one on one with patients as a mental health counselor (also facilitating the integration of behavioral health into primary care in my clinical practice), I also am apart of multiple work groups for the hospital in general (mobile apps in healthcare, & pain and addictions - i helped align & create the new hospital guideline for all prescribers after the CDC's update). I am also am apart of the URM.

Anywho long story short, I've always felt like MD school is the route for me, and I am feeling discouraged by the time it has taken me (I'm 26) and I was told my one admissions counselor i have no chance, and another told me I have a really good chance because of my background.

PLEASE ANY ADVICE!

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[WedgeDawg]

The fact that you already have two exceptionally low MCAT scores along with a low GPA means you are likely not a reasonable candidate for MD school.

A 488 is about an 18 on the old MCAT. A 3.4 GPA + 18 (or even up to 20) on the MCAT gives you a 12% chance if you are Hispanic or Latino or a 4% chance if you are Black/AA (from AMCAS table 24). And that's not even factoring in your 8 and 13.

If you are set on attending medical school, you should first not retake the MCAT again until you are 100% absolutely ready. Another poor score (and 8 and 13 are EXTREMELY poor scores) and you have sealed your own coffin. You would need to take this MCAT when you have 1) taken all the classes (orgo and physics are like half the science section on the MCAT...), 2) prepared exceptionally well, and 3) are confident you can get an acceptable score. 488 is nowhere close to an acceptable score.

Second, if you are still set on applying, you need to understand that your first two MCAT scores will likely be a significant hindrance, no matter how you look at it. You should very strongly consider applying DO as well and retaking classes to increase your GPA a bit (especially your sGPA - see the pre-DO forums for more info about grade replacement).

Honestly, if you hadn't taken the first two MCATs, I would have said your MD chances are low, but not unreasonably so with the right MCAT score. However, right now, especially if you take that MCAT and get around a 488, they are going to be effectively 0.

Another thing to consider is that the MCAT is likely easier than any test you will take in medical school. If you're scoring in the 16th percentile with your best effort right now, you need to seriously think about how that will translate to your test performance in medical school, where you will have to take test after test (both standardized and not). If you think that 488 is not your best effort, you need to figure out why not and work to improve that. I would say that taking orgo and physics is a good start.

Background is an important factor, sure, but without the scores necessary, you'll get screened out before you can even tell your story.

 

[LoveCakeNThings]

The fact that you already have two exceptionally low MCAT scores along with a low GPA means you are likely not a reasonable candidate for MD school.

A 488 is about an 18 on the old MCAT. A 3.4 GPA + 18 (or even up to 20) on the MCAT gives you a 12% chance if you are Hispanic or Latino or a 4% chance if you are Black/AA (from AMCAS table 24). And that's not even factoring in your 8 and 13.

If you are set on attending medical school, you should first not retake the MCAT again until you are 100% absolutely ready. Another poor score (and 8 and 13 are EXTREMELY poor scores) and you have sealed your own coffin. You would need to take this MCAT when you have 1) taken all the classes (orgo and physics are like half the science section on the MCAT...), 2) prepared exceptionally well, and 3) are confident you can get an acceptable score. 488 is nowhere close to an acceptable score.

Second, if you are still set on applying, you need to understand that your first two MCAT scores will likely be a significant hindrance, no matter how you look at it. You should very strongly consider applying DO as well and retaking classes to increase your GPA a bit (especially your sGPA - see the pre-DO forums for more info about grade replacement).

Honestly, if you hadn't taken the first two MCATs, I would have said your MD chances are low, but not unreasonably so with the right MCAT score. However, right now, especially if you take that MCAT and get around a 488, they are going to be effectively 0.

Another thing to consider is that the MCAT is likely easier than any test you will take in medical school. If you're scoring in the 16th percentile with your best effort right now, you need to seriously think about how that will translate to your test performance in medical school, where you will have to take test after test (both standardized and not). If you think that 488 is not your best effort, you need to figure out why not and work to improve that. I would say that taking orgo and physics is a good start.

Background is an important factor, sure, but without the scores necessary, you'll get screened out before you can even tell your story.

I really appreciate the advice thanks a bunch! So you think I should start looking at DO schools only? I was looking at both.

I've been reading a lot about certain MD schools, on MSAR, SDN, and just calling and asking questions with admissions, and they accept people with low MCAT, and low gpa. But is it never in the combination of both? Sorry if my question is so naive, but schools like Howard, or Michighan State, I get the impression that they very very hollistic in their review of students.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I really appreciate the advice thanks a bunch! So you think I should start looking at DO schools only? I was looking at both.

I've been reading a lot about certain MD schools, on MSAR, SDN, and just calling and asking questions with admissions, and they accept people with low MCAT, and low gpa. But is it never in the combination of both? Sorry if my question is so naive, but schools like Howard, or Michighan State, I get the impression that they very very hollistic in their review of students.

You shouldn't be considering either until you get your next MCAT back, which shouldn't be for a while because you are not ready to take it yet.

All schools conduct a holistic review, but holistic does not mean that they don't care about stats, it just means that they look at other things as well. If you look at well documented statistics on the AMCAS/AAMC website (particularly Table 24), you are currently in a group that fares very poorly in medical school admissions.

 

[candbgirl]

Good lord- with your current MCAT scores you aren't eligible for any med school be it MD or DO. Some schools do consider lower scores but certainly not your kind of low. Do not retake the MCAT until you have completed all of the required course work and have allowed ample time to prepare for the exam. What URM community to you represent?


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I really appreciate the advice thanks a bunch! So you think I should start looking at DO schools only? I was looking at both.

I've been reading a lot about certain MD schools, on MSAR, SDN, and just calling and asking questions with admissions, and they accept people with low MCAT, and low gpa. But is it never in the combination of both? Sorry if my question is so naive, but schools like Howard, or Michighan State, I get the impression that they very very hollistic in their review of students.

I don't think you understand. Your MCAT isn't just low, low is like a 27. You got an 8 and a 13 which are about 10th percentile. You couldn't even get an interview to a podiatry school with a score that low. Yes those schools are very holistic but within reason because you would still need to pass the boards and honestly with your MCAT scores there is nothing to say that you wouldn't fail them. If you even want to dream about medical school you need to consider DO (MD is gone at this point) and only after taking all your classes and getting a good (think 508+) MCAT score to show you can handle it and also doing well in your classes. You need to seriously prep for that test, like 6 months. And only take it after you are getting above your target score on the practice tests. Your ECs are solid but I don't think they are as unique as you think they are.

Even after all of that I would highly suggest looking into other careers. If you can pull a 500 on the MCAT you could get into a good pod school and still do some medicine and surgery.

What URM community do you represent?

 

[Goro]

With two disastrous MCAT attempts, motivated solely by poor choice making, I can't recommend continuing on this path until your practice scores are well over 500.

Why on earth would you possible take a career deciding, high stakes example without having taken some of the significant classes to cover the material on the exam??? I have colleagues who would reject you outright for being so foolish.

Hi There,

So I've taken the MCAT twice already, and I'm not sure if I want to wait to take it again.

1st mcat, i wasn't ready - 8
2nd mcat, was the day after my best friend died - 13
3rd mcat planned may 14th 2016 ...still unsure if I want to wait. I've just completed TPR course, my highest practice exam is 488 right now.

Reason's to wait, I have not taken orgo II, phys I & II. I was going to take them this summer and the fall & then apply next cycle.

I have a Master's of Science in Pain Research Education and Policy, GPA 3.4, I have tons of extra curriculars.
I also work in a primary care clinic, where I've had plenty of plenty of shadowing experience, and I work one on one with patients as a mental health counselor (also facilitating the integration of behavioral health into primary care in my clinical practice), I also am apart of multiple work groups for the hospital in general (mobile apps in healthcare, & pain and addictions - i helped align & create the new hospital guideline for all prescribers after the CDC's update). I am also am apart of the URM.

Anywho long story short, I've always felt like MD school is the route for me, and I am feeling discouraged by the time it has taken me (I'm 26) and I was told my one admissions counselor i have no chance, and another told me I have a really good chance because of my background.

PLEASE ANY ADVICE!

 

[DoReMiFaSo]

Hey OP, I imagine a lot is going through your mind. A lot of info, a lot of judgment, a lot of emotions. I think most of your questions & worries can come in a sequential order.

Right now, you are lacking in the two most heavily weighted admissions factors -- GPA & MCAT. Usually, folks asking for advice here have one of the combinations below:

1. High GPA & high MCAT
2. High GPA & low MCAT
3. Low GPA & High MCAT
4. Medium GPA & medium MCAT

In your case however, it can be objectively stated that it is a low GPA and very low MCAT combo.

I'm not sure if I want to wait to take it again.

IF you still plan on becoming a physician, you will HAVE to wait, prep, take it again, AND score well. I doubt any of my SDN colleagues would disagree with me on this point.

So try to focus all of your time and energy into MCAT prep. AFTER you get a strong score, come back and revisit this forum. Because without a respectful MCAT score, we can't begin to entertain the rest, whether you should apply for MD or DO schools, whether your URM status can give a better chance, or how much your ECs can help you in a holistic evaluation, etc...

Best of luck. Actually, better yet, don't leave too much to luck. Lock down on MCAT prep. Visit your school's academic support center / career advice center, talk to people you know who have done well on MCAT. A strong MCAT performance will open a lot of doors that have previously been shut.

 

[holdthemayo]

Hi There,

So I've taken the MCAT twice already, and I'm not sure if I want to wait to take it again.

1st mcat, i wasn't ready - 8
2nd mcat, was the day after my best friend died - 13
3rd mcat planned may 14th 2016 ...still unsure if I want to wait. I've just completed TPR course, my highest practice exam is 488 right now.

PLEASE ANY ADVICE!

If you want to be a doctor, then you are SURE you DO want to wait to take it again. You have already displayed very poor decision making in taking the MCAT when unprepared with disastrous results...twice. It's time to break that cycle.

 

[Skydive Fox]

Looks like everyone above has already extensively said what we're all thinking- that you really need to finish those prereqs and hardcore prep for a solid score before even thinking about retaking it.

That said, I would recommend having a thoughtful Plan B and Plan C. Not that I don't believe you can make it, but I know of several people who didn't have contingency plans and it caught up to them when things went south and they realized they weren't cut out for it. At the same time, I knew a guy who went back to undergrad in his mid 30's after working odd jobs for a decade. He's now a well respected trauma surgeon (MD) and says his motivation was to prove himself wrong and make something of himself.

Moral being, you never know what can happen. If you adopt Jedi-like focus and willpower, you could very well succeed, but it's always good to have a Plan B anyways.

 

[DoReMiFaSo]

That said, I would recommend having a thoughtful Plan B and Plan C. Not that I don't believe you can make it, but I know of several people who didn't have contingency plans and it caught up to them when things went south and they realized they weren't cut out for it.

YES! Having backups is a sign of maturity rather than a lack of confidence or perseverance.

 

[LoveCakeNThings]

Wow all of you have said so much, and I so appreciate it.

Including the brutal honesty, I have no pre-med committee at my Univeristy, I am the first in my family to continue on to a tertiary/terminal degree so really no guidance...still no excuse.

Long story short, I am going to print all the wonderful advice you all have given me and refer back to it as I take the slow and sure route of taking classes, buckling down, and producing 508+ scores.

Again I appreciate, you guys have been a blessing and a half!