CHANCE ME!!

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LoveDocMD

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GPA: 3.44
MCAT: 512 (~33 I think)

EMT-Basic
~300 Shadowing Hours
(not yet) 6 Months Homeless Health Outreach Scribe
(not yet) 6 Months Homeless Shelter Volunteer
3 Years hospital volunteer
(not yet) Founder: Meditation club of 6 months
1 Year Cell Biology Research
(not yet) 1 Year Diabetes Research

I know there's a lot of "not yets" haha but I will get to them!

Chance me of getting in to any MD school!
And please help me decide if I should go through the trouble to retake the MCAT again! (If I do, I know I can up it a few [3-4] points.)

Thanks :D

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You don't need to retake the MCAT. One year of research you already have is sufficient, and please stop shadowing and work on your GPA instead. What's your sGPA?
 
Not great, your GPA is well below average and your MCAT is just average. I'd focus on GPA
 
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It is not impossible. You have a better chance at osteopathic though
 
Not great, your GPA is well below average and your MCAT is just average. I'd focus on GPA

You serious? How is a 512 MCAT average? OP, get your GPA up to 3.6+ and see through with those EC's and think you'll do just fine. You don't need to retake your MCAT.
 
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You serious? How is a 512 MCAT average? OP, get your GPA up to 3.6+ and see through with those EC's and think you'll do just fine. You don't need to retake your MCAT.

His MCAT translates to about a 31-32 on the old scale, which is about average for successful applicants.
 
His MCAT translates to about a 31-32 on the old scale, which is about average for successful applicants.

There's a difference between "average" and "average for successful applicants."
 
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do you drink beer ? is so 100 percent, if not zero percent.
 
There's a difference between "average" and "average for successful applicants."
True, but your definition of average is irrelevant. If we are judging their chances of an acceptance, we should reference the averages of those who have matriculated.
 
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Get the GPA up, dont retake the mcat. What year are you/when are you applying? Also the state your from is gonna make some difference here
 
Get some extracurriculars outside of medicine if you can, have some fun with it :)
 
There's a difference between "average" and "average for successful applicants."

"Average for successful applicants" is the average he was referring to if you actually read his post, since that's the statistic you would actually need to look at to determine how competitive you are.
 
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You do not need to retake the MCAT. Your stats are fine for any DO school. For MD apply to all your state public schools and consider schools such as:
Quinnipiac
Albany
New York Medical College
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
GW
Georgetown
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Rosalind Franklin
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
California Northstate
Any private new MD schools that open in 2017 (Seton Hall, Roseman, Henricopolis, etc.)
 
His MCAT translates to about a 31-32 on the old scale, which is about average for successful applicants.

Incorrect. Typical SDN neuroticism... based on percentiles, 512 is a 33 on the old scale.
A non-balanced 512 with that sub-par GPA, assuming OP is non-URM, could be lethal
ECs look okay, OP

There's a difference between "average" and "average for successful applicants."

Spot on
 
Incorrect. Typical SDN neuroticism... based on percentiles, 512 is a 33 on the old scale.
A non-balanced 512 with that sub-par GPA, assuming OP is non-URM, could be lethal
ECs look okay, OP



Spot on

How was that "SDN neuroticism"? I was just trying to give OP a more accurate representation of their score. According to AAMC percentile tables, a 512 is 87th percentile, a 31 is 83rd percentile and a 32 is 88th percentile. Therefore, their score translates to between 31 and 32, but closer to the 32.

If you're going to correct someone, at least know what you're talking about.
 
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Keep in mind that a 31 and 32 represent a one or two question difference on the test. While having a 31 vs 32 can be a deciding factor for admission, it's not a huge one. Both scores are competitive. His GPA is on the low side but, depending on when he is applying, he can improve it. Post bacc helps as well. OP, if you are in a rush to apply, then osteopathic schools are the way to go for you. You might even get some MD interviews if you have a great statement.
 
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Looks good for DO. 3.44 is probably not going to cut it for MD these days, based on the experiences of applicants this cycle.
 
Historically about half of applicants with a 3.45/32 get accepted to an MD program. Your recent grade trend, EC's, LORs, and the overall theme/story you present yourself with to try to sell an ADCOM why they should vouch for you will play a large role in determining which side of the 50-50 proposition you end up on.
 
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Keep in mind that a 31 and 32 represent a one or two question difference on the test. While having a 31 vs 32 can be a deciding factor for admission, it's not a huge one. Both scores are competitive. His GPA is on the low side but, depending on when he is applying, he can improve it. Post bacc helps as well. OP, if you are in a rush to apply, then osteopathic schools are the way to go for you. You might even get some MD interviews if you have a great statement.


They also represent a major portion of the normal curve...
 
You don't need to retake the MCAT. One year of research you already have is sufficient, and please stop shadowing and work on your GPA instead. What's your sGPA?

sGPA is 3.4. I am a 4th year in a rush to get in. I can probably get it to 3.5 by the end of this year. But I feel like I can get the MCAT score up more easily than my GPA in the short amount of time that I have.

You serious? How is a 512 MCAT average? OP, get your GPA up to 3.6+ and see through with those EC's and think you'll do just fine. You don't need to retake your MCAT.
I don't have time to get the GPA up to 3.6. I feel like I can improve the MCAT more easily than my GPA.
Get the GPA up, dont retake the mcat. What year are you/when are you applying? Also the state your from is gonna make some difference here
I am applying from California ( DX ) and I am a senior in college not trying to take more than 1 gap year.
You do not need to retake the MCAT. Your stats are fine for any DO school. For MD apply to all your state public schools and consider schools such as:
Quinnipiac
Albany
New York Medical College
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
GW
Georgetown
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Rosalind Franklin
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
California Northstate
Any private new MD schools that open in 2017 (Seton Hall, Roseman, Henricopolis, etc.)
I want MD! And my state is CA, even more competitive.. I know. Does applying out of state generally benefit me or hurt me?
Keep in mind that a 31 and 32 represent a one or two question difference on the test. While having a 31 vs 32 can be a deciding factor for admission, it's not a huge one. Both scores are competitive. His GPA is on the low side but, depending on when he is applying, he can improve it. Post bacc helps as well. OP, if you are in a rush to apply, then osteopathic schools are the way to go for you. You might even get some MD interviews if you have a great statement.
Thank you, and yes I am only shooting for MD schools. I am a 4th year not trying to take more than 1 gap year.
 
sGPA is 3.4. I am a 4th year in a rush to get in. I can probably get it to 3.5 by the end of this year. But I feel like I can get the MCAT score up more easily than my GPA in the short amount of time that I have.


I don't have time to get the GPA up to 3.6. I feel like I can improve the MCAT more easily than my GPA.

I am applying from California ( DX ) and I am a senior in college not trying to take more than 1 gap year.

I want MD! And my state is CA, even more competitive.. I know. Does applying out of state generally benefit me or hurt me?

Thank you, and yes I am only shooting for MD schools. I am a 4th year not trying to take more than 1 gap year.

Cali sucks, applying out of state is almost always harder. State schools obviously heavily favor IS and private schools vary between no preference to very heavy IS bias. Given you're a Cali resident I would really strongly advise you apply DO as well as MD. If you're willing to give up on your goal to be a physician if you can't be an MD, the profession might not be right for you anyway. People with your stats can get accepted MD, but there are also many (esp in Cali) that will be unsuccessful with those numbers.

Retake the MCAT if you want, but jut know the implications for not improving is bad (could really hurt MD chances) and doing worse would kill your chances for MD. If you're taking a gap year, maybe consider moving somewhere for that year so that you can establish IS residency in a more Med school rich state. Off the top of my head I know South Carolina is super easy to become a resident of and has some pretty good state schools
 
Cali sucks, applying out of state is almost always harder. State schools obviously heavily favor IS and private schools vary between no preference to very heavy IS bias. Given you're a Cali resident I would really strongly advise you apply DO as well as MD. If you're willing to give up on your goal to be a physician if you can't be an MD, the profession might not be right for you anyway. People with your stats can get accepted MD, but there are also many (esp in Cali) that will be unsuccessful with those numbers.

Retake the MCAT if you want, but jut know the implications for not improving is bad (could really hurt MD chances) and doing worse would kill your chances for MD. If you're taking a gap year, maybe consider moving somewhere for that year so that you can establish IS residency in a more Med school rich state. Off the top of my head I know South Carolina is super easy to become a resident of and has some pretty good state schools
I will let you know my new MCAT score when I get it. But really dude? "Give up"? Nah bro.... Hahaha
 
Lol I'm not saying to give up I'm saying don't give up because you're gunning for MD. Consider DO since there is really no appreciable difference
 
What exactly is the difference between MD and DO? I mean i've heard the whole "DOs examines patients more holistically" thing but that's so vague. Is there any real specific difference in practice?
 
Two crucial questions to consider:

(1) Why not DO? With your numbers, I think you'll have a hard time getting an MD acceptance. I know you said you're set on going MD, but please reconsider, especially if you're adamant about not taking another gap year/reapplying.
(2) What kind of application theme are you going for; that is, why medicine? To be honest, I think you've gone overkill on the shadowing and didn't do enough non-clinical volunteering/activities or research. Research-heavy profiles tend to be favored by higher tiered schools with consequently have higher average stats, but you need to have some highlight in your application whether it be involvement with the underserved, research, leadership, etc.

How are your LORs looking? If you have especially positive LORs from science faculty, those may mitigate some doubt about your academic performance. All in all, apply broadly with a good amount of OOS public schools, knowing full well how low-yield they are; spend a lot of time crafting your application.

Best of luck.
 
What exactly is the difference between MD and DO? I mean i've heard the whole "DOs examines patients more holistically" thing but that's so vague. Is there any real specific difference in practice?

There is no real difference in the way DOs practice vs MDs. The only difference is that in theory the way they teach the DO degree lends to a more holistic view of health and the patient. They also learn osteopathic manipulation, which is a technique kinda like chiropractic adjustment and is good at treating musculoskeletal pain.

Basically MD and DO practice the exact same, but are educated slightly differently.
 
Not to turn this into another DO vs MD thread but there a couple things that need to be qualified by the DO vs MD are functionally equivalent and practice the same. The main point is the DO vs MD discussion is much much more than saying they are "functionally equivalent" and that simplifying it like this can be rather misleading.

a) It is rather clear there are a number of specialities that DO's either will have a much harder time matching into than MDs or that will simply be off limits.
b) Perhaps even more importantly there is a difference in the quality and tier of residency programs that MD's have access to that DO's simply won't, for pretty much all fields even primary care. There are hoards of high end Internal Medicine programs for ex that wont even consider DOs.
c) Even for those programs that do consider DO's, DOs in a number of cases need to meet higher standards(ie higher Step 1 scores) than their MD counterparts to truly be competitive.
d) And this says nothing about the upcoming merger which will cut the number AOA residencies and clearly make it harder for DO's to match into the high end specialities than currently is. In fact with the AOA residencies getting cut and there being more and more DO applicants every year, its really not all that unreasonable to think in another 5-10 yrs there will be more DOs entirely shut out from residency.
e) 3rd year in terms of clinical rotations and clinical education is far different for DOs than MDs. One reason why you see the bias against DOs is because the clinical education they get just isnt at the level of MDs and this is something you will hear residents, attendings etc talk about on this site all the time.

Now I say all this completely agreeing the OP needs to really consider DO programs. There are still plenty of strong opportunities for DOs and for 99% of the borderline MD applicant population being a doctor is far far far superior to not being a doctor and there are hoards of high quality DO physicians everywhere. But the DO vs MD discussion is one everybody has to have for themselves. I can completely see why a borderline candidate would want to take a DO spot without hesitation if they cant get into an MD program. I can also see why a borderline MD applicant wants to give themselves more than 1 cycle before opting for the DO route and doing everything in their power to try to get into an MD program, even if it means taking risks and a couple years along the way. Its a discussion only the OP can determine for themselves; I tend to simply try and point out the DO vs MD differences and encourage them to do their own research to decide if they want to concurrently apply to DO's rather than tell them you absolutely need to apply to DOs.

For the OP one course of action if you are gunning for the MD might be to try out an app cycle applying broadly and if you dont start hearing positive news by the fall either a) apply to DO programs b) look into the top end SMP programs(ie Cincy, Tufts etc). A strong showing in an SMP would do a ton to give you a final boost you might need for an MD program but its also a risky option. Just like the DO vs MD route, whether thats a risk to take is something only you can decide.
 
I will let you know my new MCAT score when I get it.

If OP retakes the MCAT and scores a few points lower it permanently kills any hope of MD. I wonder how it affects his chances at DO though?

A retake of that MCAT score makes it look like he's gunning really hard for MD and not wanting to go DO. If he's eventually forced to apply DO, will DO schools not want him for that reason? Or are his stats good enough that it doesn't really matter?
 
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Not to turn this into another DO vs MD thread but there a couple things that need to be qualified by the DO vs MD are functionally equivalent and practice the same. The main point is the DO vs MD discussion is much much more than saying they are "functionally equivalent" and that simplifying it like this can be rather misleading.

a) It is rather clear there are a number of specialities that DO's either will have a much harder time matching into than MDs or that will simply be off limits.
b) Perhaps even more importantly there is a difference in the quality and tier of residency programs that MD's have access to that DO's simply won't, for pretty much all fields even primary care. There are hoards of high end Internal Medicine programs for ex that wont even consider DOs.
c) Even for those programs that do consider DO's, DOs in a number of cases need to meet higher standards(ie higher Step 1 scores) than their MD counterparts to truly be competitive.
d) And this says nothing about the upcoming merger which will cut the number AOA residencies and clearly make it harder for DO's to match into the high end specialities than currently is. In fact with the AOA residencies getting cut and there being more and more DO applicants every year, its really not all that unreasonable to think in another 5-10 yrs there will be more DOs entirely shut out from residency.
e) 3rd year in terms of clinical rotations and clinical education is far different for DOs than MDs. One reason why you see the bias against DOs is because the clinical education they get just isnt at the level of MDs and this is something you will hear residents, attendings etc talk about on this site all the time.

Now I say all this completely agreeing the OP needs to really consider DO programs. There are still plenty of strong opportunities for DOs and for 99% of the borderline MD applicant population being a doctor is far far far superior to not being a doctor and there are hoards of high quality DO physicians everywhere. But the DO vs MD discussion is one everybody has to have for themselves. I can completely see why a borderline candidate would want to take a DO spot without hesitation if they cant get into an MD program. I can also see why a borderline MD applicant wants to give themselves more than 1 cycle before opting for the DO route and doing everything in their power to try to get into an MD program, even if it means taking risks and a couple years along the way. Its a discussion only the OP can determine for themselves; I tend to simply try and point out the DO vs MD differences and encourage them to do their own research to decide if they want to concurrently apply to DO's rather than tell them you absolutely need to apply to DOs.

For the OP one course of action if you are gunning for the MD might be to try out an app cycle applying broadly and if you dont start hearing positive news by the fall either a) apply to DO programs b) look into the top end SMP programs(ie Cincy, Tufts etc). A strong showing in an SMP would do a ton to give you a final boost you might need for an MD program but its also a risky option. Just like the DO vs MD route, whether thats a risk to take is something only you can decide.
Thanks so much for an awesome reply. Yeah I want to keep gunning for MD. So what if it takes another year? It will open more opportunities later on. I dont want to look back on these years and regret taking the easy way out and letting the fear of failure make me not even want to try.
If OP retakes the MCAT and scores a few points lower it permanently kills any hope of MD. I wonder how it affects his chances at DO though?

A retake of that MCAT score makes it look like he's gunning really hard for MD and not wanting to go DO. If he's eventually forced to apply DO, will DO schools not want him for that reason? Or are his stats good enough that it doesn't really matter?
I will do better
Im changing up my study game, and Im feeling confident about it. Oh and my GPA has an upward trend.
 
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If OP retakes the MCAT and scores a few points lower it permanently kills any hope of MD. I wonder how it affects his chances at DO though?

A retake of that MCAT score makes it look like he's gunning really hard for MD and not wanting to go DO. If he's eventually forced to apply DO, will DO schools not want him for that reason? Or are his stats good enough that it doesn't really matter?

I highly doubt DO schools would infer all that from an MCAT retake. There could be a million reasons he retakes the mcat. They're sorting through a gajillion apps they don't have time to think that much into it

Also just anecdotally I know a girl who retook a 34 mcat and got a 35. She still got in a couple places. So not a great idea, but not a deal breaker if you don't do a ton better.
 
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Multiple adcoms have stated that a retake of a good MCAT score can lose you points with certain adcom members because it shows a lack of judgement. Say what you want OP but your GPA is what is the issue. An MCAT retake may only help you if you get like a 523. If you are serious about the whole "MD" only thing then you need to fix the GPA
 
By the way... I stuck it though and got into an MD and started in 2017! The update letter/interview process is a fair share of luck and game-playing. (Still with the <3.5 GPA and 512 MCAT)
 
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