Clincical Psychology or Counseling Psychology poll

[Aura5]

In my quest to understand the differences and try to make the best decision for my life, I keep coming back to clinical psychology versus counseling psychology. While I understand generally it's a different perspective (and I think...think I prefer counseling? Hard to tell without actual experience as a student in either), and I've read various websites and descriptions explaning the differences, I don't want to misunderstand and accidentally rule out something I expected to be trained/educated in by choosing counseling psych or vice versa. Which is far down the road for me, right now I'm trying to get a master's to strengthen the app.

Anyway I thought it might be fun (cough, useful) to see how many of all y'all are counseling psych or clinical psych, since you are actually in programs right now (unlike prospective me).

So:
- are you a clinical psychology student or counseling psychology student (or graduate of a doctorate program in either).
- And, why did you chose either or?
-And any other exciting feedback on the choice you'd be willing to share; ie how it's turning out currently as far as class/program content, what kind of internship opportunities you've had, research opps, careers, etc.

If we're not allowed to host polls or something let me know. And please don't turn this into a flame war of why one is better and/or trumps the other. Everything has its time and place; I'm just trying to get a better sense of the two from people who are actually current students in each and can speak to their own.

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[Aura5]

...No takers?

 

[CounselingGirl]

I think a lot of us are just applicants :-/

 

[Aura5]

Good point. The fact that I misspelled "Clinical" in the title probably doesn't help either.

Well...applicants can answer too. If they are applying for clinical versus counseling, or both...and why...

 

[Psychemout]

Well ill put in my two cents...

I am currently in a Masters Counseling program and will be starting a PhD in Counseling in the fall...

Let me start by saying this is only my opinion.

I think if you were to have asked this question 20 years ago there would be drastic responses but as literature will suggest, the two fields are really starting to overlap. Most people will say that a Clinical Psychologist is trained to work with more severe pathologies compared to a Counseling Psychologist. In my experience this has not been the case, at my internship I only worked with the SPMI adult population.

At my university the counseling students start working with clients right off the back where as the clinical do not. The general emphasis on research seems to be greater in the clinical programs but if you are very jazzed about research you can create a research heavy experience in a counseling program.

In my experience, I have seen a greater emphasis of social justice and advocacy within counseling departments.

I think you just need to figure out what you want to do and find a program clinical or counseling that fits you.

Oh and counseling programs on average seem to be less competitive to get into than clinical programs. This gap too has seemed to close.

 

[Aura5]

Psychemout, thanks for your input. I did read some paper where a professor was saying how the gap is closing, and he tried to break down the remaining differences.

I just go back and forth on the fence so much, even for choosing a master's. Two places I'm looking at have both counseling and clinical psych master's and it's like...so the difference is...wait... *squints really hard* I don't have research experience yet so I don't know how much I'll love or hate it...so we'll see.

Anyway thanks, your response was interesting. Any reason why you chose the Counseling Psych Ph.D. over the other, and even the counseling psych master's?

And social justice and advocacy sound good to me! I just don't want to do counseling psych and be pigeonholed into only doing things like career counseling for slightly confused people. Nor do I want to do clinical and be pigeonholed only into conducting assessments 24/7 or focusing just on a mental illness and not a person as a whole. Just a good balance of psychotherapy, possibly some research, dealing with people struggling with deep-rooted emotional/psychological problems to offer healing, ease of suffering and hope for their lives. Turning around maladaptive behaviors, etc.

 

[nycegurl]

I just don't want to do counseling psych and be pigeonholed into only doing things like career counseling for slightly confused people.

For me, I want to work as a counselor in a university setting and I know people who do this with Counseling Psych PhD's, Clinical Psych PhD's or Clinical Psych PsyD's. Ultimately, I picked counseling psych (I'll be starting in the fall) because of the slightly different approach than clinical. Also, I'm really interested in focusing on multicultural issues which the programs I applied to had.

So what's your end goal since maybe that can help narrow it down?

 

[Wapote84]

Psychemout, thanks for your input. I did read some paper where a professor was saying how the gap is closing, and he tried to break down the remaining differences.

I just go back and forth on the fence so much, even for choosing a master's. Two places I'm looking at have both counseling and clinical psych master's and it's like...so the difference is...wait... *squints really hard* I don't have research experience yet so I don't know how much I'll love or hate it...so we'll see.

Anyway thanks, your response was interesting. Any reason why you chose the Counseling Psych Ph.D. over the other, and even the counseling psych master's?

And social justice and advocacy sound good to me! I just don't want to do counseling psych and be pigeonholed into only doing things like career counseling for slightly confused people. Nor do I want to do clinical and be pigeonholed only into conducting assessments 24/7 or focusing just on a mental illness and not a person as a whole. Just a good balance of psychotherapy, possibly some research, dealing with people struggling with deep-rooted emotional/psychological problems to offer healing, ease of suffering and hope for their lives. Turning around maladaptive behaviors, etc.

this is what I think.

I applied to both Counseling and Clinical Ph.D. programs this year, and have been accepted into both. I decided to go the clinical route. If you're looking into masters programs keep this in mind: a masters in clinical psych cannot be licensed to practice individually, whereas a counselor can practice individually. A clinical Psych masters program does get some client time; however, it is much more research focused than a counseling program. Something to think about if you're going the terminal route or as a plan b if the Ph.D. doesnt go well.

I think there is actually a HUGE overlap between counseling psych and clinical psych, but it's only an overlap; there are differences. But, in my opinion, if you go the counseling route, you can make the overlap as large or small as you want. I feel in counseling it's what you make of it. You can be very similar to clinical psych dealing with more severe cases depending on your practicum sites an internship site selections, or you can be more counseling based focusing on other sites. But, no matter what, a clinical psychologist trumps a counseling psychologist in the real world except in the fact that a counseling psychologist is more likely to get an academic position in a counseling psych Ph.D. program than a clinical psychologist. But a counseling psychologist almost NEVER gets an academic position in clinical psych programs (some may disagree, but it's what my experience is telling me).

I didnt feel as if one were better than the other; however, I am well aware of certain prejudicial sentiments towards those with counseling phds. I didnt want to worry in the end. But also the clinical program just was a better fit for me personally. It just depends on what you're looking for.

 

[Psychemout]

I am wondering what you mean by trumps in the real world... I would be interested in hearing (ha reading) your expansion on this...

I think it really depends on the training and how you prepare yourself. The most important thing is to have foresight... see where you want to go and figure-out the steps you need to take to get there...

I choose this route because although I enjoy research... I am currently working in two labs and will have multiple posters represented and APA convention... I don't see myself as a researcher for a profession... I also enjoyed having more opportunities to work clients... counseling served me best...

Also heed the clinical vs counseling masters info that was presented by the previous poster.. with internship matching the way it has been (ie difficult) make sure you are covering all your bases... just in case you have to work for a year or two between a masters and doctoral degree.

 

[Wapote84]

I am wondering what you mean by trumps in the real world... I would be interested in hearing (ha reading) your expansion on this...

I think it really depends on the training and how you prepare yourself. The most important thing is to have foresight... see where you want to go and figure-out the steps you need to take to get there...

I choose this route because although I enjoy research... I am currently working in two labs and will have multiple posters represented and APA convention... I don't see myself as a researcher for a profession... I also enjoyed having more opportunities to work clients... counseling served me best...

Also heed the clinical vs counseling masters info that was presented by the previous poster.. with internship matching the way it has been (ie difficult) make sure you are covering all your bases... just in case you have to work for a year or two between a masters and doctoral degree.

Yeah, I know if I didn't get into a Ph.D. program this semester, my plan B was to start grad school in a counseling masters program, then apply to counseling psych PHD and clinical psych PHD programs. If I ever did have to work between masters and phd, I wanted to be licensed. (by the way, there were 4000 applicants this year for internships, and 800 people were never matched! Keep that in mind!)

I think it totally does matter to a degree your training. For example, if you get into a notoriously poor clinical program vs going to a very good counseling psych program (like Iowa State or U of Memphis, etc) then that could be an issue. I would rather go to a very good counseling program than a poor clinical program. But, in general, I think that when people look at a Clinical Psych Ph.D. and a Counseling Psych Ph.D. and they're the same in nearly every way, often the Clinical Psych will get the position. Its just a more prestigious degree, and people know this. Clinical programs are more versatile I think in general. BUT you can go into a counseling phd program (depending on which it is) and come out just as able as any clinical psychologist. I feel that this is something that one may have to actively pursue, however (something I was planning to do if I went into counseling psych).

I personally would have been very happy at either my Counseling or Clinical programs that I have been accepted to. They were both EXCELLENT programs, but I believe that there are many in the field (specifically clinical psychologists) that have this pretentious attitude towards counseling psychologists. Don't hate the player guys, hate the game. I don't like that reality, but it's just how it is.

 

[Psychemout]

Wow I hope you are able to gain a more holistic approach to your conceptualization of counseling vs clinical. The idea that a clinical psychologist hands down beats a counseling psychologists is not grounded on factual evidence. Your ideology perpetuates the parody that exists for some in the field. I hope that your program provides you with a breadth of experiences so you are better able to answer this question in the future. good luck to you..

 

[Wapote84]

Wow I hope you are able to gain a more holistic approach to your conceptualization of counseling vs clinical. The idea that a clinical psychologist hands down beats a counseling psychologists is not grounded on factual evidence. Your ideology perpetuates the parody that exists for some in the field. I hope that your program provides you with a breadth of experiences so you are better able to answer this question in the future. good luck to you..

I'm guessing you went counseling then...


All I'm saying is that if all things are equal, many people will choose the clinical psychologist because of the prestige, their general well roundedness, and their historically more rigorous training in both research and clinical work.

I'm NOT saying that Counseling Psychologists can't receive equal training, if not better depending on the program and the individual's PERSONAL choice of class, practicum, and internship selections.

One more thing... to deny the realistic viewpoint that many people hold prejudices against those who have counseling phds, you are misinformed. It's a reality in the field.

And to be realistic.... in general counseling programs don't have the same rigorous training as do clinical programs. However, many (not all) have rigorous training, but many aren't as rigorous; therefore, in my opinion, you have to ensure that your training IS more rigorous.

It's my opinion. It's my experience in the field and from both working in counseling and clinical environments. It's good to have debates about things like this so that future applicants can get as many perspectives as possible, but is it really necessary to be bitter about what someone else's opinion is? Not for real.

 

[CounselingGirl]

I'm guessing you went counseling then...


All I'm saying is that if all things are equal, many people will choose the clinical psychologist because of the prestige, their general well roundedness, and their historically more rigorous training in both research and clinical work.

I'm NOT saying that Counseling Psychologists can't receive equal training, if not better depending on the program and the individual's PERSONAL choice of class, practicum, and internship selections.

One more thing... to deny the realistic viewpoint that many people hold prejudices against those who have counseling phds, you are misinformed. It's a reality in the field.

And to be realistic.... in general counseling programs don't have the same rigorous training as do clinical programs. However, many (not all) have rigorous training, but many aren't as rigorous; therefore, in my opinion, you have to ensure that your training IS more rigorous.

It's my opinion. It's my experience in the field and from both working in counseling and clinical environments. It's good to have debates about things like this so that future applicants can get as many perspectives as possible, but is it really necessary to be bitter about what someone else's opinion is? Not for real.

I am not bitter, but I am curious about where you are getting your information. Could you tell us specifically what has lead you to draw these conclusions? How do you know clinical is more well-rounded and has more rigorous training? What counseling and clinical environments have you worked in?

On another note, I chose counseling over clinical because of the multicultural perspective. Also, it seems to focus more on clients' strengths and developmental stages.

 

[Wapote84]

I am not bitter, but I am curious about where you are getting your information. Could you tell us specifically what has lead you to draw these conclusions? How do you know clinical is more well-rounded and has more rigorous training? What counseling and clinical environments have you worked in?

On another note, I chose counseling over clinical because of the multicultural perspective. Also, it seems to focus more on clients' strengths and developmental stages.

"If you are seeking psychotherapy with a psychologist, or are looking to employ one, it is NOT ONLY worthwhile BUT ESSENTIAL to ask the individual psychologist, whether counseling or clinical, to describe his or her training, orientation and current style of practice.

Counseling psychologists have frequently stressed the field's historical focus on a normal client population; that is, the research conducted and published in the professional literature is oriented toward people without serious or persistent mental illnesses."

-Division 17 Counseling Psychology Website.
http://www.div17.org/students_differences.html

Clinical Psychologists are trained to cover more bases than counseling psychologists have been HISTORICALLY. That's all I'm saying. I'm saying some programs are better at infusing into their students more severe psychopathology. I'm not saying that if someone has a counseling phd that they can't offer just as efficacious psychotherapy to clients - it depends on their program and training.

And I mist say, Counseling Psychology does have a much better emphasis on multiculturalism. I know that they have Clinical beat in that arena, and it's the main reason I was drawn to counseling psych. Luckily, I joined a clinical program that focuses largely on multiculturalism. I also joined this program because of the ability to work with the counseling psychology dept! Why? Because I love counseling psych too... I'm not up here to bash counseling psych, but here to offer my perspective on the nuances between the two areas.

 

[HannahC]

Having been accepted to both counseling and clinical programs and receiving a masters in clinical psych--I have to say that this discussion is one I had many times and I think that it really is what you make of it--for either track.

I chose the counseling track and have been really pleased with the training I have received, the research I have been involved in, and the externships I have had and the internship site to which I was just matched. I went in knowing what I wanted to do, found the people with whom I could do that and haven't looked back since. And frankly, when it comes down to it---we all sit for the SAME licensing exam and are all "licensed clinical psychologists" (once we pass

So the long and short of it is---find a program where the students seem happy, the faculty is involved in interesting work that you would like to be involved with and in a location where you'll be happy living for the next 5-7 years.

 

[Wapote84]

So the long and short of it is---find a program where the students seem happy, the faculty is involved in interesting work that you would like to be involved with and in a location where you'll be happy living for the next 5-7 years.

agreed

 

[Aura5]

And frankly, when it comes down to it---we all sit for the SAME licensing exam and are all "licensed clinical psychologists" (once we pass

Ah, really? Didn't know that. Also glad to see you went with clinical master's and still got into counseling psych Ph.D....I guess I'm still a little worried if I take one step now, it might prevent me from options down the road...lol. But it sounds like there is some wiggle room if a counseling psych program was willing to take you with a clinical psych (versus counseling) master's. Interesting, interesting.

Thanks everyone who has responded so far. Good feedback! The consensus from this and other threads still seems to be to just find a good program fit. Hopefully whilst getting the master's I'll get more streamlined with what I want/goal and that might help guide which choice is best as well.