Close to taking my MCAT and strongly considering switching to Dental

[adamrose]

Life Long premed here. Senior at University @Buffalo.
I have been an underdog candidate for quite some time with premed and lately over the past year through my shadowing experiences, online research, and word of mouth from doctors, friends, and what I am seeing with my own eyes with healthcare, I have developed a sour taste with what I am getting myself into. I have also developed an idea that I want to have a more balanced life.

I shadowed in a dental clinic today and while I am not sure I understood exactly the procedures they were doing, I enjoyed the relax paced environment and the general vibe I got from the dentists about their career.

I feel very out of place as I feel I am too late to "intrude" on this profession as I have no experience or really anything backing a claim that I would want to be a dentist.

I am quite fluent in the premed-med school-residency track but not so much when it comes to dentistry.
I was hoping someone could give me advice and as well tell me if I am a reasonably competitive candidate or I still have work to be done:

3.46 cGPA (started from a 2.3 freshman year, maintained a 3.6-3.8 since)
3.0.3.2 (not sure exsactly the way its calculated) sGPA
NO DAT yet. Is 2-3 months enough time to study?

Awesome Letters of recommendation from science faculty/faculty

180 Hours hospital volunteer
EMT-B certified (no hours yet)
Shadowed 2 doctors and 1 dentist
Fraternity charity director
1 year of Virology Research
3 TA positions (Anatomy, Biopsychology, Physiology)

Year off: Scribe Position in hospital job secured
Shadow more dentists
Find a job for some $$

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

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[adamrose]

2-3 months of studying (every weekday) should get you at least a 19, which is about the average score of admitted students. That's not what you need though since your sGPA is on the low side. Might wanna aim for 22+. Head over to the DAT forum for more detailed discussions on how to prep for it.

Oh, you def have a better chance at getting into dschool than US MD med school

Should I consider a masters realistically? I don't need two years off from undergraduate..
Or would it be best to take the DAT and see how i do and apply

 

[Blake1e]

Life Long premed here. Senior at University @Buffalo.
I have been an underdog candidate for quite some time with premed and lately over the past year through my shadowing experiences, online research, and word of mouth from doctors, friends, and what I am seeing with my own eyes with healthcare, I have developed a sour taste with what I am getting myself into. I have also developed an idea that I want to have a more balanced life.

I shadowed in a dental clinic today and while I am not sure I understood exactly the procedures they were doing, I enjoyed the relax paced environment and the general vibe I got from the dentists about their career.

I feel very out of place as I feel I am too late to "intrude" on this profession as I have no experience or really anything backing a claim that I would want to be a dentist.

I am quite fluent in the premed-med school-residency track but not so much when it comes to dentistry.
I was hoping someone could give me advice and as well tell me if I am a reasonably competitive candidate or I still have work to be done:

3.46 cGPA (started from a 2.3 freshman year, maintained a 3.6-3.8 since)
3.0.3.2 (not sure exsactly the way its calculated) sGPA
NO DAT yet. Is 2-3 months enough time to study?

Awesome Letters of recommendation from science faculty/faculty

180 Hours hospital volunteer
EMT-B certified (no hours yet)
Shadowed 2 doctors and 1 dentist
Fraternity charity director
1 year of Virology Research
3 TA positions (Anatomy, Biopsychology, Physiology)

Year off: Scribe Position in hospital job secured
Shadow more dentists
Find a job for some $$

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

Take more undergrad lvl science and math courses to boost that low sGPA of yours. sGPA is one of the most important numbers. If yours is 3.0 then get it above 3.2.

For the DAT 2-3 months should be enough if you fully dedicate yourself to it with like 4-5+ hrs 5 days a week. Aim for at least 21AA.

Your 3.46 cGPA is good so get at least a 21AA on the DAT and bring up your sGPA to at least 3.2 and you should be set.

 

[Bifenthrin]

I don't think with your GPA that you need to consider doing a masters. I would suggest 3 or 4 months of intensive study for the DAT. Get a score around 20 or 21 AA, and shadow more dentists (or one dentist for more hours), and you should be pretty solid.

Also, before you make the switch completely, I would suggest shadowing dentists some more. See if it's something that you're interested in, not just as an alternative to medicine, but as a lifelong career.

Ideally, you should apply with at least 100 hours of shadowing a dentist, though I would honestly do more if you have the time.

Also, in your personal statement when you write it, I would address that you started off on the med school track, but really talk about why you decided medicine was not for you and why you decided to switch to dentistry.

 

[adamrose]

I wouldn't do this if I were you. I would just completely ignore your pre-med related experiences like hospital shadowing and start off fresh (i.e. only mention dental related stuff). You can always explain when they ask about it in the interviews, but why bother revealing when there's still somewhat of a stigma to this subject?

And no, I don't think your GPA is terrible enough to warrant a Master's.

Wouldn't they ask why I have so many medical related experiences? like EMT, SCRIBE, Hospital volunteer hours

 

[adamrose]

Like I said, explain only when asked. That's my 2 cents. Or better yet, don't bother listing those. They won't really help anyway.

I feel uneasy about throwing away a whole entire EMT experience and 200 hours i shadowed.. maybe i wouldn't take the scribe job though?

 

[darknightzzz]

to the OP, I am in the same boat as you except I just have ~130 hrs shadowing a doctor. I am hestitating between mentioning it or not but according to @studentdent00, it is better to ignore or put a little emphasis on it. or just use it as how you get to know the healthcare field but undecided about a certain path wheter medical dental or pharmaceutical you wanna follow.

best of luck!

 

[adamrose]

to the OP, I am in the same boat as you except I just have ~130 hrs shadowing a doctor. I am hestitating between mentioning it or not but according to @studentdent00, it is better to ignore or put a little emphasis on it. or just use it as how you get to know the healthcare field but undecided about a certain path wheter medical dental or pharmaceutical you wanna follow.

best of luck!

you too man!

 

[kc8pg]

How long have you been studying for the MCAT?

 

[adamrose]

How long have you been studying for the MCAT?

I was about to start in the next week or so

 

[y3nd0]

No need for master's program.

Your GPA is only slightly below average, but I imagine that's probably because you slipped up your first year, as your subsequent years have great GPA's. You also seem to have a decent work ethic, and I'd wager about 2 months of studying for the DAT will be fine. I personally took 2.5 months, but studying times have varied from 2 weeks to months on end. I agree with others that a 21AA+ will be what you should aim for.

As for your background in medicine... that's a toughie. A lot of your experience is okay (in other words, neutral when it comes to med or dent) to put on a dental school application, aside from the hospital volunteer and EMT certification. Unless you decide to bring up the med to dent switch in your essay, there is no point in putting these activities on your application because it will seem out of place. I would personally just drop the two activities altogether (and the scribe job), and like studentdent00 said, start off fresh with just dental related activities. You may feel a little jipped in doing so, but that is the cost of switching over to a different professional track. You can't bring everything with you.

Just a quick course on the dental track (differs from school to school, but most schools will follow this format):
- Dental school is much like medical school in that you have your first two years doing didactic course work along with some simulated clinical work (to build up hand skills). In your third and fourth years, you'll work directly with patients and rotate between the dental specialties.
- Dental school is very expensive. Private schools run up to 400K for four years and in-state's can vary, but most are around 250K (if you're in Texas, you're in luck), which I think matches the OOS tuition for med schools.
- Like the USMLE's in med, dent has the NBDE Part's 1 and 2 (national board dental exam) that you take within your 4 years in school, and of course, a licensing exam at the end of your four years.
- Residency is not required to practice. Those that graduate without doing residencies become general dentists. If you decide to specialize, you can enter a residency program, but they don't pay you, you pay them (huge difference between med and dent, and the costs are pretty astronomical). The only exception is the AEGD or GPR (advanced education in general dentistry/general practice residency) where you get a monthly stipend, just like med residencies.
- There are 9 dental specialties:
1. orthodontics
2. prosthodontics
3. endodontics
4. periodontics
5. pediatric
6. oral surgery
7. dental public health
8. oral pathology
9. oral radiology

I don't know if you knew any of this, but I just wanted to give you an idea of what you'd be getting into. Surprisingly, a lot of friends of mine who are medical students (and those that I have worked with) know nothing about dental school. Some even asked if we were going to end up being "doctors" when we graduate.

 

[kc8pg]

Ohhh then 3 months is prob a good amt. i would advise 30-40hrs a week to get a min. 21AA for that GPA.

 

[adamrose]

No need for master's program.

Your GPA is only slightly below average, but I imagine that's probably because you slipped up your first year, as your subsequent years have great GPA's. You also seem to have a decent work ethic, and I'd wager about 2 months of studying for the DAT will be fine. I personally took 2.5 months, but studying times have varied from 2 weeks to months on end. I agree with others that a 21AA+ will be what you should aim for.

As for your background in medicine... that's a toughie. A lot of your experience is okay (in other words, neutral when it comes to med or dent) to put on a dental school application, aside from the hospital volunteer and EMT certification. Unless you decide to bring up the med to dent switch in your essay, there is no point in putting these activities on your application because it will seem out of place. I would personally just drop the two activities altogether (and the scribe job), and like studentdent00 said, start off fresh with just dental related activities. You may feel a little jipped in doing so, but that is the cost of switching over to a different professional track. You can't bring everything with you.

Just a quick course on the dental track (differs from school to school, but most schools will follow this format):
- Dental school is much like medical school in that you have your first two years doing didactic course work along with some simulated clinical work (to build up hand skills). In your third and fourth years, you'll work directly with patients and rotate between the dental specialties.
- Dental school is very expensive. Private schools run up to 400K for four years and in-state's can vary, but most are around 250K (if you're in Texas, you're in luck), which I think matches the OOS tuition for med schools.
- Like the USMLE's in med, dent has the NBDE Part's 1 and 2 (national board dental exam) that you take within your 4 years in school, and of course, a licensing exam at the end of your four years.
- Residency is not required to practice. Those that graduate without doing residencies become general dentists. If you decide to specialize, you can enter a residency program, but they don't pay you, you pay them (huge difference between med and dent, and the costs are pretty astronomical). The only exception is the AEGD or GPR (advanced education in general dentistry/general practice residency) where you get a monthly stipend, just like med residencies.
- There are 9 dental specialties:
1. orthodontics
2. prosthodontics
3. endodontics
4. periodontics
5. pediatric
6. oral surgery
7. dental public health
8. oral pathology
9. oral radiology

I don't know if you knew any of this, but I just wanted to give you an idea of what you'd be getting into. Surprisingly, a lot of friends of mine who are medical students (and those that I have worked with) know nothing about dental school. Some even asked if we were going to end up being "doctors" when we graduate.

Wow I didn't realize the cost was that high!!!! How in the hell do dentists make that up? Im assuming the salary for a general dentist would be somewhere between 140-200k? i could be wrong.

I'm used to hearing the medical school costs of 60-70k/year and specialty salaries of medicine with 200k+

 

[DentalLonghorn2014]

Wow I didn't realize the cost was that high!!!! How in the hell do dentists make that up? Im assuming the salary for a general dentist would be somewhere between 140-200k? i could be wrong.

I'm used to hearing the medical school costs of 60-70k/year and specialty salaries of medicine with 200k+

How in the hell do dentists make that up?

Easy. You don't by a Ferrari the moment you get out of dental school.

 

[Weakfart]

Hey OP, everyone here is giving great advice so just take that! Anyway I'm a junior at UB so if you want someone to talk to about this stuff message me!

 

[ICUrunning]

Wow I didn't realize the cost was that high!!!! How in the hell do dentists make that up? Im assuming the salary for a general dentist would be somewhere between 140-200k? i could be wrong.

I'm used to hearing the medical school costs of 60-70k/year and specialty salaries of medicine with 200k+

Many in the health field stereotype dentists as the person too dumb for med school and "too lazy" to work your typical 40 hr week but still crave that six-figure income.

I'm telling you now before you jump in feet first that the Golden Age of dentistry has past. Many students, especially those matriculating right now will pay 250 - 500k for an education. The latter especially for those going into privates especially USC, NYU, the Midwesterns, etc. Don't forget the interest. The majority of newly minted grads will make somewhere between 90-120k with 100k being the popular number being thrown around these parts.

Please, please be sure that this career is something you want to get into and not just a job where it seems to be slightly slower than your average physician's job.

 

[adamrose]

Many in the health field stereotype dentists as the person too dumb for med school and "too lazy" to work your typical 40 hr week but still crave that six-figure income.

I'm telling you now before you jump in feet first that the Golden Age of dentistry has past. Many students, especially those matriculating right now will pay 250 - 500k for an education. The latter especially for those going into privates especially USC, NYU, the Midwesterns, etc. Don't forget the interest. The majority of newly minted grads will make somewhere between 90-120k with 100k being the popular number being thrown around these parts.

Please, please be sure that this career is something you want to get into and not just a job where it seems to be slightly slower than your average physician's job.

With this in mind, would it be smart to take an additional year off possibly and aim for a State school with all effort?
I admire the warning and I will do some soul searching to see if this is not just me happy I am choosing something besides medical school

 

[adamrose]

Many in the health field stereotype dentists as the person too dumb for med school and "too lazy" to work your typical 40 hr week but still crave that six-figure income.

I'm telling you now before you jump in feet first that the Golden Age of dentistry has past. Many students, especially those matriculating right now will pay 250 - 500k for an education. The latter especially for those going into privates especially USC, NYU, the Midwesterns, etc. Don't forget the interest. The majority of newly minted grads will make somewhere between 90-120k with 100k being the popular number being thrown around these parts.

Please, please be sure that this career is something you want to get into and not just a job where it seems to be slightly slower than your average physician's job.

Also, from my shadowing experience where i was in a dental clinic and saw 6 dentists working, I was under the impression it was pretty slow and relaxed compared to my experience with doctors and in hospitals. is this false?

 

[ICUrunning]

With this in mind, would it be smart to take an additional year off possibly and aim for a State school with all effort?
I admire the warning and I will do some soul searching to see if this is not just me happy I am choosing something besides medical school

Absolutely, if you think that would be helpful. Do whatever you can to get into your state school. The second best option is to get into a state school that offers in-state tuition. Maryland comes into mind. You should be familiar with Maryland's medical school if you have been paying attn to medical schools. The d-school is down the road.

But with what you have, you could get into Buffalo. Stony Brook might be a long shot though, depending on you DAT. Do well on your DAT and you should see interviews.

You can use this guide to help you calculate your BCP gpa and Sci gpa. (BCP is only bio,chem, phys courses) (Sci gpa is BCP and those in the other sciences category [math, stats, etc.])
http://hpplc.indiana.edu/documents/AADSASCourseSubjects2015_071414.pdf

You can keep everything you have so far on your resume on the dental application except for the EMT-B and the scribe position. (I too, volunteered in a hospital but I had hundreds of other hours elsewhere. I highly doubt Adcoms would mind about a short stint. But your call.)

Also, from my shadowing experience where i was in a dental clinic and saw 6 dentists working, I was under the impression it was pretty slow and relaxed compared to my experience with doctors and in hospitals. is this false?

No, it is definitely "slower" but you have to realize that there is a physical component to dentistry that will become taxing over time. Many patients don't really realize how meticulous the field is. You don't want your dentist to rush now, right?

 

[Greyangel6]

It is true that a lot of time dental environment seems more relaxed, especially at private practice. Could be due to well-trained staff and organized office/clinic to run at optimal speed which depends on the dentist(s).

But my suggestion is to shadow some recent dental grads (if possible) because most dentists that you shadow are probably established and doing quite well partly due to a lower debt load. Newer grads have a better and realistic view because they are the ones handling a significantly higher debt load (some as high as 500k). The "doctor lifestyle" will be delayed also significantly further. Doing this would give you something to consider before switching to dentistry.

And yea, during dental school interview, they'd ask questions like why dentistry and not medicine. And having a less hostile working environment is usually not enough for adcoms.

Do well on your DAT. Plan everything. Organize everything before you start studying. I spent a good 2 months planning, gathering study materials, finding money to pay for those studying materials, making schedules, booking a room right across Prometrics, bill payment schedules, etc. just so that when it comes time to execute the plan (the actual studying which was 2.5 months), I will stick with it and a way to hold myself responsible for each day's work. I also made those plans so that I lessen the stress as much as possible. I deal with stress by de-stressing so it worked out for me. Hope it helps you.

 

[Greyangel6]

[QUOTE="ICUrunning, post: 16297672, member: 501650" You don't want your dentist to rush now, right?[/QUOTE]

A patient comes in for a tooth extraction
Patient: "How much do you charge to take out this tooth and how long will I be here for?

Dentist: "$250 and it should only take 30 minutes"

Patient: "WHAT?! You charge $250 for 30 minutes of work?! That's $500/hour. It's ridiculous!"

Dentist: "I could take longer if that's what you want"

Moral to the story: If you're rushing the dentist, you're not getting your money's worth. If you stay too long, well....

 

[adamrose]

It is true that a lot of time dental environment seems more relaxed, especially at private practice. Could be due to well-trained staff and organized office/clinic to run at optimal speed which depends on the dentist(s).

But my suggestion is to shadow some recent dental grads (if possible) because most dentists that you shadow are probably established and doing quite well partly due to a lower debt load. Newer grads have a better and realistic view because they are the ones handling a significantly higher debt load (some as high as 500k). The "doctor lifestyle" will be delayed also significantly further. Doing this would give you something to consider before switching to dentistry.

And yea, during dental school interview, they'd ask questions like why dentistry and not medicine. And having a less hostile working environment is usually not enough for adcoms.

Do well on your DAT. Plan everything. Organize everything before you start studying. I spent a good 2 months planning, gathering study materials, finding money to pay for those studying materials, making schedules, booking a room right across Prometrics, bill payment schedules, etc. just so that when it comes time to execute the plan (the actual studying which was 2.5 months), I will stick with it and a way to hold myself responsible for each day's work. I also made those plans so that I lessen the stress as much as possible. I deal with stress by de-stressing so it worked out for me. Hope it helps you.

All the dentists i shadowed were New grad GPRs! I honestly felt they were very excited about their careers and seriously portrayed that. they basically welcomed me into the field and it was a great feeling. they seemed so relaxed as well!!! they were talking to me the whole time about my personal life while doing what looked like completed procedures. i was very impressed

 

[Daneosaurus]

I wouldn't do this if I were you. I would just completely ignore your pre-med related experiences and start off fresh (i.e. only mention dental related stuff). You can always explain when they ask about it in the interviews, but why bother revealing when there's still somewhat of a stigma to this subject?

And no, I don't think your GPA is terrible enough to warrant a Master's.

I agree with this guy. Don't talk about that in your personal statement - that's a better item to address in an interview. And you don't need to do a masters. Shadow (a lot) and study your butt off for the DAT. Our DAT forums has that test down to a science, so spend time in there and get some knowledge on how that thing works. Good luck!

 

[Gen. Beauregard]

This explains all the anatomical terminology you already know! Kudos, brah. I don't get the EMT naysayers. My certification and volunteer activities were all over my application, and I feel the reason I got in with a mediocre DAT. That and real life application of the crap I learned in undergrad, which was science related like your virology. If you have anything published throw that on there. It seems, from what I could tell during my application process, that a lot of schools are beginning to focus on community involvement and social awareness. If you volunteer, awesome. If you have chairside manner and aren't a d-bag, awesome. EMT is an indicator of demonstrable patient interaction, and if you're doing it through a volunteer fire dept, you got two birds you killed in the bush with a stone in your hand or something. Get some hours on that cert. if you can. If you get in it'll give you a leg up on the clinic floor. Working with patients can be awesome.
They are very interested in learning your personality during the interview, and they're not impressed when an applicant talks about money being their primary motivator. Don't be that guy. Hell yes for working hard and earning a living and having weekends off without being on call to enjoy it, and catching gnarly air while jumping wakes on your jet ski, and buying a yeti cooler because suddenly you can rationalize it over your old igloo, just don't come off as that being priority number one. Improving other people's lives is the important part.
This time of year there may be things like Mission of Mercy in your area. They're basically giant free dental care parties that go on for a weekend, and they're desperate for help. They're a great opportunity to talk to dentists and see patients and see what's involved with this stuff. And they look good on an application. They may even help you decide if this is for you. They can be pretty raw and candid, but also in the best ways.
And talk to more dentists. Most of them are laid back, artistic, and creative, and would be more than happy to help you out. It's not like that have to ask their boss for permission to show you around. Good luck, and shoot me a pm if you want to know anything more specific. I'd be happy to tell you my background and be candid about dental school.

 

[BrazilianRider]

I wouldn't do this if I were you. I would just completely ignore your pre-med related experiences and start off fresh (i.e. only mention dental related stuff). You can always explain when they ask about it in the interviews, but why bother revealing when there's still somewhat of a stigma to this subject?

And no, I don't think your GPA is terrible enough to warrant a Master's.

I wrote about how I was originally pre-med in my PS and I got accepted to a ton of schools... It was actually a good talking point that segued into "why dentistry?"

 

[ladentista007]

I wrote about how I was originally pre-med in my PS and I got accepted to a ton of schools... It was actually a good talking point that segued into "why dentistry?"

Another anecdotal point so no one gets swayed by one person's opinion. I also got into a ton of schools. I didn't write about how I was originally pre-med and didn't have any problems transitioning into "why dentistry"

 

[BrazilianRider]

Another anecdotal point so no one gets swayed by one person's opinion. I also got into a ton of schools. I didn't write about how I was originally pre-med and didn't have any problems transitioning into "why dentistry"

I mean yeah, I'm not saying me writing that in my PS lead me to be accepted, I was just saying it doesn't hurt if you phrase it correctly.