Cyberbullying & veterinary medicine.

[chickenlittle]

I didn't see any threads devoted to this yet (though I haven't been around much lately, so maybe it's hidden within another thread).... but I thought it's something that anyone who is interested in / involved in the veterinary profession should probably be aware of.

Last month, a veterinarian in NYC by the name of Shirley Koshi committed suicide. Based on comments that she has made to friends and colleagues in the last few months, this suicide was largely motivated by online bullying/harassment that she received regarding a pet that she treated last fall. The gist of the story is that two good samaritans brought an ill stray cat into Dr. Koshi's newly-opened veterinary clinic. Dr. Koshi allowed them to surrender the stray and treated in her hospital at her expense, but then the "owner" surfaced some time later and wanted to reclaim the cat. This "owner" is an individual who is known for adopting cats from shelters and then turning them out into NYC parks. The "owner" wanted the cat back so that she could turn it loose again, and Dr. Koshi apparently refused to relinquish the cat to this "owner" who was not really acting as an owner, saying that she had found another home for the cat where it could receive proper care instead of living out the rest of its life as a stray. There was a legal battle, though I haven't seen anyone actually post details from court documents yet, and apparently the issue was not resolved to the "owner's" satisfaction. The "owner" responded by attaching herself to a vet-bashing blog and Facebook site, and involving a large group of people in tearing down Dr. Koshi's personal and professional reputation. Surely this was very stressful for Dr. Koshi, and I imagine it also worsened the financial difficulties that accompany opening a new startup clinic.... and so Dr. Koshi ended her life.

Why does this matter to you? There is a large group of veterinarians who would like to see some good come out of this, and use this tragedy as a way to open a discussion about the ethics of all of these vet-bashing sites that are legally permitted to attack veterinarians. Unfortunately, these sites contain people who feel a blanket hatred towards all vets and want to destroy all of our careers. For example, one vet who defended Dr. Koshi's actions on the Veterinary Abuse Network facebook site soon found her work information posted on Facebook for all to see, with instructions for everyone on the site to contact her employer and launch a smear campaign against her. A photo of a vet school graduation was shared on another of these Facebook sites, with a caption stating that it was too bad all of those individuals would become terrible vets and do awful things with their careers. When these sites were repeatedly reported to Facebook for harassment, though, Facebook determined that they did not violate their community standards. Apparently the standards are different (non-existent?) for harassment of professionals.

Anyway, there is a lot of information out there (including a 400+ post discussion on VIN)... but here is some of the publicly-accessible info that will provide some backstory.
http://banvetabuse.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-evil-that-sociopaths-do-julie.html?spref=fb
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-suicide-cat-custody-fight-article-1.1701820
http://vetsbehavingbadly.blogspot.se/2014/02/murder-by-internet.html


Here are the three primary sites run by "the crazies" in this situation.... I'm hesitant to post these links for fear of giving them any more traffic than they're already receiving, but I think it's important to see this stuff for yourself. Please don't engage with them, though... they're looking for targets and fighting with them online will serve no purpose.
www.facebook.com/veterinaryabusenetwork
www.facebook.com/regretavet
http://vetabusenetwork.blogspot.com/


How can you help? One veterinarian has started a petition asking the New York police to look into possible criminal charges against these online bullies. The petition currently has over 2,300 signatures - people across the world, both inside and outside of the veterinary field. Read the petition here, and sign it if you agree. Please. Whether or not you think you may ever find yourself under attack in this manner, the fact that one human being can harass another to this extent isunfathomable.

https://www.change.org/petitions/ne...countable-for-the-suicide-of-dr-shirley-koshi


You'll probably be seeing/hearing more about this in the coming weeks/months as a large number of veterinarians pull together through VIN and the AVMA to address this, but the sooner we can spread awareness, the better. Likewise for getting more signatures on the petition!

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[StartingoverVet]

I just have to say that the people posting on the veterinaryabusenetwork using abusive language are really not helping the cause (assuming that is not some strategy by them to make it look like vets are crazy). Emotions are high, but that just really reinforces their own statements… so anyone posting…. try not to let your emotions overwhelm your message. Just my opinion.. that it is easy to ignore a hothead.

 

[chickenlittle]

Yeah.... that's why I was honestly kind of hesitant to even link to those pages. I definitely would not recommend anyone post there AT ALL, because I can't imagine any reply that would be constructive at this time. Mainly just posting the link so that people can see how the owner of veterinaryabusenetwork harassed Dr. Koshi and celebrated the news of her death. (Although some of the posts over there have been taken down now, so the first blog post that I linked to might be the best in that regard - it has screenshots to some of those initial comments prior to their editing.)

 

[pinkpuppy9]

That poor woman! I can't imagine how heartbroken she was to have her reputation and life shattered. The internet scares me. I see people blindly following everything from fad diets and "super foods" to anti-vaccination propaganda. The following of these hate blogs and pages is the exact same thing. No one bothers to form their own opinions anymore. I can only hope this is resolved, not that the life lost can ever be brought back.

 

[Escalla]

I signed it earlier today. Though to be honest, I would have signed it even if it wasn't an incident involving a vet. The law simply takes too long to catch up to the technology and this should be pushed for everyone's well-being.

 

[Rabbit Riot]

That's very sad.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about cyber bullying and people pushing to make certain types of online comments criminal (especially in cases that I feel the civil courts are set up to handle).

Having said that I'm also aware of how difficult it is to get authorities to take internet-based threats and harassment seriously. I had a roommate a few years ago post that she wanted to murder me and two other roommates through AIM and didn't realize that I and some of our mutual friends could see it. When we called the police and showed them the screen captures of what this girl had posted they just brushed it off and told us, "Well, you can always move out." Oh, the joys of having your safety concerns marginalized by condescending male officers who probably believe that "girls will be girls."

For my situation, even though this girl's behavior was unlawful in every way intended by my state's criminal codes (which included threats made through electronic media), the police were unwilling to enforce the law. So to me, it's not just a matter of making more laws or making harsher laws, it's quite frequently an issue about better enforcement. Sadly, it always seems to take a death to get any kind of action.

I do wonder if any schools offer education on internet based harassment and what to do when slanderous and libelous claims are made by former clients?

 

[bbeventer]

What I personally find frightening, is because of one disgruntled individual she had a large multi-angled slander campaign targeted against her. It just goes to show that one loud voice can drown out the majority.

 

[battie]

I think this is a serious issue no matter where we go in vet med or even the animal industry at all. My family runs our own business that involves animals and people constantly post bad information on our business on the "watch-out" sites and such. There are more false claims against us on the BBB than true claims, sadly enough, and we have a poor "grade" cause they're coming in faster than we can contradict them.

Overall, it's a group of people who do not understand what they are talking about. It's the exact same thing as the anti-vaccine stuff. People feel that we're misinforming them, which is totally off base.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

^This! I just had a lab at my campus's sheep farm. The manager spent a good 20-30 minutes telling us that we will experience this stuff as members of animal industries. His experiences run along the lines of people coming in (or calling animal control) and asking/complaining that "His sheep are outside in the cold without jackets or heated shelters." Mind you, these sheep aren't sheared....

That must be especially tough when your livelihood is on the line. People care more about animals than their fellow humans these days and think the internet teaches them all they need to know.

 

[battie]

Don't even get me started. lol. Whenever someone says something about how animals should be allowed to roam free, I ask them how their Chihuahua or my Min Pin are going to survive the Colorado winters. They look at me like, "Ohhh... I didn't think about that." Yeah, I know.

But seriously, I went to Zoolights with my boyfriend and we were walking behind a girl in the reptile house who said, "...but I would never donate money to a zoo since they keep wild animals from their homes." First, you already donated money by buying a ticket. Secondly, what?!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Don't even get me started. lol. Whenever someone says something about how animals should be allowed to roam free, I ask them how their Chihuahua or my Min Pin are going to survive the Colorado winters. They look at me like, "Ohhh... I didn't think about that." Yeah, I know.

But seriously, I went to Zoolights with my boyfriend and we were walking behind a girl in the reptile house who said, "...but I would never donate money to a zoo since they keep wild animals from their homes." First, you already donated money by buying a ticket. Secondly, what?!

http://mizzkatonic.tumblr.com/post/78490747045/why-i-believe-in-zoos

 

[battie]

^That was awesome.

 

[that redhead]

I admit this sort of thing is already on my radar since I want to do lab animal med. When I worked as a lab animal tech, we got emails about weeks that PETA or other animal rights groups would be on campus, encouraging their members to be violent towards those working with lab animals.

 

[BlackDog17]

I think this is a serious issue no matter where we go in vet med or even the animal industry at all. My family runs our own business that involves animals and people constantly post bad information on our business on the "watch-out" sites and such. There are more false claims against us on the BBB than true claims, sadly enough, and we have a poor "grade" cause they're coming in faster than we can contradict them.

Overall, it's a group of people who do not understand what they are talking about. It's the exact same thing as the anti-vaccine stuff. People feel that we're misinforming them, which is totally off base.

I think this is a big part of the problem. It's far easier to blast someone anonymously (or even publicly) on the internet than to confront them personally and give them the opportunity to explain. It's also easier to exaggerate or flat out lie to help get your point across.

This is also a big part of the reason why communication is SO important in vet med or any animal field. If you read through bad reviews, you'll notice a lot of them come from clients who are uninformed or simply didn't understand what the vet was telling them. I just read a bad review of a clinic back home that, while upsetting, was also mildly entertaining in an eye-roll sort of way. The client in question was ranting endlessly on Google reviews because she brought her kitten to the vet, was told it needed to be spayed, and when they performed the surgery they discovered it was actually a male. She was insisting that the vet was incompetent and she shouldn't have had to pay for the surgery since they "did the wrong one." I'm guessing it was probably a cryptorchid case and no one fully explained it to her, or else she wasn't listening.

Similarly, when my mom was working full time we used to take our dog to this fantastic day care and boarding kennel. Seriously, I would have had no problems staying there all day myself. The place was immaculate, the animals could not have received better care, and the staff knew every single dog and owner by name. When I went to leave a good review for them, I discovered a 1-star review from an owner claiming that her dog caught canine influenza from the kennel and this was "solid proof" that the kennel was unsanitary, neglectful, and dangerous to a dog's health. Never mind that it's well known that canine influenza is a problem in that area, and if the dog had been to a vet any time in the past five years the owner would know that. Chances are they were offered the vaccine and didn't want to pay for it . . . yet it's the kennel that's "dangerous" to a dog's health? And of course someone that has never boarded their dog before is going to read that and believe it was the kennel's fault.

And all of this could be prevented/resolved if the clients would just grow a pair and speak to the business personally rather than hiding behind a computer screen. Makes me so angry.

 

[battie]

Completely agree. For our business, we have a written contract that everyone has to sign. That's how we know how many "reviews" are fake, because we have no documentation of those people having ever been our customers. It has also made it easier to prove to the review sites that these people are basically full of crap. And for maybe a quarter or so, give or take, are customers we had, but never contacted us about any problems whatsoever. How can we help you if we don't know you have an issue!!??

 

[pinkpuppy9]

For businesses, most of the poor reviews might actually come from competitors as I have come to learn.

 

[dyachei]

For businesses, most of the poor reviews might actually come from competitors as I have come to learn.

Or disgruntled employees.

 

[BlackDog17]

For businesses, most of the poor reviews might actually come from competitors as I have come to learn.

Some review websites also allow the business to "buy out" the bad reviews and have them removed from the page, so it's really not all that helpful either way.

I just made an interesting discovery too. With all this talk of online reviews, out of curiosity I went and looked up the best clinic I ever worked for. On their yelp page they have an overall rating of two stars and a whole series of ridiculous bad reviews including:

- Claiming that all the vets wear Rolexes (not true. also irrelevant.)
- Complaint about being pressured into getting the lyme vaccine and the dog got lyme anyway. Owner is angry that the clinic wouldn't pay for his treatment.
- Claim that the clinic misdiagnosed a dog with lymphoma and recommended euthanasia, when another local clinic said the dog just needs mild painkillers (what?).
- Complaint that the clinic never gave the client any discounts, special treats for the dog on holidays, or thanks for driving 20 minutes to get there (. . . I'm sorry you're not a special snowflake?)
- Complaint that the office is too fancy and they should be spending their money elsewhere.
- Complaint that they spent thousands in diagnostics and mass removal surgery only to discover that the dog didn't really have cancer.
- Claim that they "slip extra, unnecessary charges into the bill" so they can make more money.

Once you finally get through all that crap (about 10 lengthy reviews total), at the bottom of the page in small, very pale, easy to miss font is a link that says "20 other reviews that are not currently recommended." If you click that link, you suddenly find two full pages of five star reviews all raving about how wonderful and knowledgeable the staff is, how you're always given an itemized estimate and offered alternate treatment options, how compassionate they are, etc.

According to Yelp:
"We get millions of reviews from our users, so we use automated software to recommend the ones that are most helpful for the Yelp community. The software looks at dozens of different signals, including various measures of quality, reliability, and activity on Yelp. The process has nothing to do with whether a business advertises on Yelp or not. The reviews that currently don't make the cut are listed below and are not factored into this business's overall star rating."

So their "automated" software takes out all the positive reviews and hides them on the "unhelpful" page. It doesn't even factor them into the overall rating despite the fact that they're all five star reviews, and only allows negative reviews to be seen on the main page. And this is helpful how??

 

[DVMDream]

- Complaint that the office is too fancy and they should be spending their money elsewhere.

I actually had a client complain to me once that our clinic was too clean and we need to spend less money on cleaning and more money elsewhere....

 

[StartingoverVet]

I actually had a client complain to me once that our clinic was too clean and we need to spend less money on cleaning and more money elsewhere....

LOL. Yeah, I hate those clean hospitals too. Germs deserve to live too don't they?

 

[epivetlove]

Some review websites also allow the business to "buy out" the bad reviews and have them removed from the page, so it's really not all that helpful either way.

Yelp is absolutely one of those companies. The last clinic I worked for got a call from a Yelp representative at least every 3 months, offering to discuss our online presence, reviews, and how they could make it a better experience for us...yeah, by shelling out lord-knows-what so that the positive reviews were listed above the negative ones. Ridiculous.

 

[Frozenshades]

Yelp is absolutely one of those companies. The last clinic I worked for got a call from a Yelp representative at least every 3 months, offering to discuss our online presence, reviews, and how they could make it a better experience for us...yeah, by shelling out lord-knows-what so that the positive reviews were listed above the negative ones. Ridiculous.

Yep. It's taking time for word to spread but I think yelp is slowly becoming known for the exploitive business it is.

Honestly, it's a con. Pay us or you're stuck with fake bad reviews online.

 

[battie]

And then when businesses try to respond to the negative reviews by submitting their own review, they are accused of lying and just trying to save face; when they bring up that there are false reviews, people don't believe them. It's a terrible double standard that punishes the companies irrelevant of whether they are good or bad.

Whenever someone comes in and says, "I'm not going to shop here because you have bad reviews online," we say, "Then why are you here?"

 

[pinkpuppy9]

A clinic I used to work at used to get calls from a service that used the legal system to actually remove bad reviews from the internet. We never used it, and I'm unsure of how the process worked, but it had something to do with libel.

 

[battie]

Whenever we get something that is particularly bad, we contact the company that is hosting the review and tell them that they will receive a cease and desist order due to slander and if they don't comply, we'll take them to court for slander. Is that what the service your clinic was offered? That's about the best way to get rid of bad reviews is if you threaten the company with a slander lawsuit that we've tried. Granted, we also have the contracts that we use so we can show whether or not the client held up their end of the bargain, too.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Whenever we get something that is particularly bad, we contact the company that is hosting the review and tell them that they will receive a cease and desist order due to slander and if they don't comply, we'll take them to court for slander. Is that what the service your clinic was offered? That's about the best way to get rid of bad reviews is if you threaten the company with a slander lawsuit that we've tried. Granted, we also have the contracts that we use so we can show whether or not the client held up their end of the bargain, too.

That was probably it! It's just ridiculous what people will do when they are misinformed or just not happy. Instead of working with the business to reach a solution, they sit down at their computer and tell as many people as they can not to support the place.

 

[stenodactylus]

I think this is a serious issue no matter where we go in vet med or even the animal industry at all. My family runs our own business that involves animals and people constantly post bad information on our business on the "watch-out" sites and such. There are more false claims against us on the BBB than true claims, sadly enough, and we have a poor "grade" cause they're coming in faster than we can contradict them.

Overall, it's a group of people who do not understand what they are talking about. It's the exact same thing as the anti-vaccine stuff. People feel that we're misinforming them, which is totally off base.

I agree. Any animal industry is going to have to deal with crazies. You've got the anit-vaxxers, the "science diet is evil and pays for vet school" crowd, and in my future specialty (Shelter Medicine) no-kill nutjobs.

I feel like my experience as an animal shelter manager have put me ahead of the game and prepared me for this kind of bull**** once I'm a vet. I already have my very own hate blog run by a die-hard pit bull nutjob who accuses me of hating pit bulls and wanting to kill them all because I euthanized maybe 14 or 15 last year (All of whom had bitten people, other animals, or showed serious aggression on behavior evals). I've had letters to the editor of the local paper bashing me and saying I'm heartless and evil and should be fired (Despite the fact that I'm running the joint with the lowest euthanasia rate ever in the city's entire history). Things in the animal welfare industry get worse than bad yelp reviews, but I already have gotten to deal with that and come out stronger. It was really, really tough to deal with emotionally.

When it comes to animals, people are extrodinarily passionate and some animal lovers are misanthropic unstable individuals. Everyone who goes into the animal field is going to have to deal with crazies.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Related: http://speakingofresearch.com/2014/02/27/fact-into-fiction-why-context-matters-with-animal-images/

 

[that redhead]

It's a double sided coin, though. Sometimes veterinarians don't take the time to thoroughly discuss the case/treatment/consequences/etc with the client. I know I've had that happen a few times before and I was really displeased.

I've actually been thinking lately that it would be a great idea for clinics to write or type out sheets that go over big points about the treatment/disease/etc - maybe brochures or the like. I know things like surgeries get consent forms where they mention possible problems but having something written out about common diseases/treatments/etc would probably be really helpful. When you're at the vet's office you're often stressed, worried and/or overwhelmed not to mention probably not medically inclined. So you don't really get what's going on, you just trust the vet to do the right thing. Which they often do, but I think a lot of problems stem from inadequate communication. It's too bad that vets have to take the fall for that, but maybe something that could be improved upon.

(Obviously I don't condone nasty online reviews; poor communication goes both ways.)

 

[dyachei]

It's a double sided coin, though. Sometimes veterinarians don't take the time to thoroughly discuss the case/treatment/consequences/etc with the client. I know I've had that happen a few times before and I was really displeased.

I've actually been thinking lately that it would be a great idea for clinics to write or type out sheets that go over big points about the treatment/disease/etc - maybe brochures or the like. I know things like surgeries get consent forms where they mention possible problems but having something written out about common diseases/treatments/etc would probably be really helpful. When you're at the vet's office you're often stressed, worried and/or overwhelmed not to mention probably not medically inclined. So you don't really get what's going on, you just trust the vet to do the right thing. Which they often do, but I think a lot of problems stem from inadequate communication. It's too bad that vets have to take the fall for that, but maybe something that could be improved upon.

(Obviously I don't condone nasty online reviews; poor communication goes both ways.)

many places I've worked have done just that.

 

[DVMDream]

I've actually been thinking lately that it would be a great idea for clinics to write or type out sheets that go over big points about the treatment/disease/etc - maybe brochures or the like. I know things like surgeries get consent forms where they mention possible problems but having something written out about common diseases/treatments/etc would probably be really helpful. When you're at the vet's office you're often stressed, worried and/or overwhelmed not to mention probably not medically inclined. So you don't really get what's going on, you just trust the vet to do the right thing. Which they often do, but I think a lot of problems stem from inadequate communication. It's too bad that vets have to take the fall for that, but maybe something that could be improved upon.

The clinic that I worked at did this. We would lay out exactly what the diagnosis was, what to do, how to give medications, etc, etc. All of this was typed up and printed out. All surgery patients were given discharge instructions that were typed out and highlighted. More complex surgeries (ex: TPLO) were given a full booklet on what to do next and when to start doing specific exercises/return to activity.

New diabetic cases were given a full list of instructions as well as symptoms and signs to look out for.

We still had owners complain that we didn't explain things well or that we did not tell them one medication needed to be done prior to giving another (despite us both verbally telling them and have it written out). Some people will complain no matter what, unfortunately.

I do really like the written instructions though because many owners really appreciated them and would reference them frequently. If they weren't sure, they would call us if they had any questions.

 

[that redhead]

That's great that places already do that! A little extra work up front but I think it would be well worth it.

 

[DVMDream]

That's great that places already do that! A little extra work up front but I think it would be well worth it.

The clinic that I worked for just had a template saved with everything already typed up. So, things like discharge instructions for spay/neuter you would just go to the template, add the pet's name to the document and hit print. TPLO discharge instructions were saved, so again, find and print.

There was a diabetic handout where all you had to do was add the patient name, the insulin dose, and if they were feeding a new diet, the type of diet. Everything else was already saved in the template, so it took 2 seconds to add the specifics for that patient.

 

[BlackDog17]

It's a double sided coin, though. Sometimes veterinarians don't take the time to thoroughly discuss the case/treatment/consequences/etc with the client. I know I've had that happen a few times before and I was really displeased.

I've actually been thinking lately that it would be a great idea for clinics to write or type out sheets that go over big points about the treatment/disease/etc - maybe brochures or the like. I know things like surgeries get consent forms where they mention possible problems but having something written out about common diseases/treatments/etc would probably be really helpful. When you're at the vet's office you're often stressed, worried and/or overwhelmed not to mention probably not medically inclined. So you don't really get what's going on, you just trust the vet to do the right thing. Which they often do, but I think a lot of problems stem from inadequate communication. It's too bad that vets have to take the fall for that, but maybe something that could be improved upon.

(Obviously I don't condone nasty online reviews; poor communication goes both ways.)

One clinic I worked for did something like this. They had a whole filing cabinet full of pre-written fact sheets about various diseases, diagnoses, and treatments so they could just grab the info they needed, photocopy it, and give it to the client. Obviously it didn't work for every situation, but it was nice to have those things on hand.

If I ever have my own clinic, I would love to be able to give clients a nicely typed sheet of everything we talked about during their appointment. There are so many times when I get home from the vet with my own pets and have that moment of "She said something about his eyes, what was it again?" Usually it's just trivial stuff, but there's so much information being exchanged even in just a routine exam that it's easy to miss things. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to provide a typed account of every appointment - it would probably take way too much time - but I think it would be super helpful for everyone involved.

 

[that redhead]

If I ever have my own clinic, I would love to be able to give clients a nicely typed sheet of everything we talked about during their appointment. There are so many times when I get home from the vet with my own pets and have that moment of "She said something about his eyes, what was it again?" Usually it's just trivial stuff, but there's so much information being exchanged even in just a routine exam that it's easy to miss things. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to provide a typed account of every appointment - it would probably take way too much time - but I think it would be super helpful for everyone involved.

Definitely. The time component is probably the biggest problem to the whole concept, especially when they're on 15min appointments (I can't even fathom that but if people make it work, they make it work.)

 

[cloverbug]

One clinic I worked for did something like this. They had a whole filing cabinet full of pre-written fact sheets about various diseases, diagnoses, and treatments so they could just grab the info they needed, photocopy it, and give it to the client. Obviously it didn't work for every situation, but it was nice to have those things on hand.

If I ever have my own clinic, I would love to be able to give clients a nicely typed sheet of everything we talked about during their appointment. There are so many times when I get home from the vet with my own pets and have that moment of "She said something about his eyes, what was it again?" Usually it's just trivial stuff, but there's so much information being exchanged even in just a routine exam that it's easy to miss things. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to provide a typed account of every appointment - it would probably take way too much time - but I think it would be super helpful for everyone involved.

Maybe you could do something involving sending them the information through email? That way they can still get the information but you don't have to spend the time right after the appointment writing it up. Pretty much everyone has an email account of some sort today.

 

[wildcatj]

Maybe you could do something involving sending them the information through email? That way they can still get the information but you don't have to spend the time right after the appointment writing it up. Pretty much everyone has an email account of some sort today.

At the vet ophtho office I worked at we had hand outs for everything. We had computerized records (and had since 1993) so everything was set up beautifully. It literally took 30 seconds to print out discharge instructions, any hand outs on their problems, and our old program automatically grabbed next appointment dates for all that client's animals. I think the challenge lies in not having computerized records. It's really easy when the computer populates all the pet info for you and all you have to do is answer a few questions for it. Not so easy if you have to type in all those pieces of info.

 

[cloverbug]

At the vet ophtho office I worked at we had hand outs for everything. We had computerized records (and had since 1993) so everything was set up beautifully. It literally took 30 seconds to print out discharge instructions, any hand outs on their problems, and our old program automatically grabbed next appointment dates for all that client's animals. I think the challenge lies in not having computerized records. It's really easy when the computer populates all the pet info for you and all you have to do is answer a few questions for it. Not so easy if you have to type in all those pieces of info.

Blackdog was talking about having information for each specific appointment discussion which is why I offered that idea. Having basic packets of information on common conditions and illnesses is a really good idea though. The clinic I work for has some on big diseases/conditions like parvo and diabetes but not on too much beyond that.

 

[wildcatj]

Blackdog was talking about having information for each specific appointment discussion which is why I offered that idea. Having basic packets of information on common conditions and illnesses is a really good idea though. The clinic I work for has some on big diseases/conditions like parvo and diabetes but not on too much beyond that.

I gotcha. We were able to do patient specific info too like what was talked about during the appointment. It was a little less complicated because we only dealt with eyes and the office was run crazy efficiently, but the doctor would spend the last two minutes of the exam typing up a quick summary of what was discussed. The diagnoses were already in the computer so the discharge instructions populated the diagnoses, discussion/overview of the appointment, medications, etc. then they would get specific disease hand outs in addition.
Edit: my point being with the right tools and protocols it can be integrated, though I think that office was a special circumstance. It was amazing to see the insane amount of productivity when an office is run that well.

 

[WelshCob]

Related: http://speakingofresearch.com/2014/02/27/fact-into-fiction-why-context-matters-with-animal-images/

This is at my school and I remember when that picture came out in the newspaper. I was shocked that it was allowed to be published and I feel like many members of the profession were also taken aback by its publishing.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

This is at my school and I remember when that picture came out in the newspaper. I was shocked that it was allowed to be published and I feel like many members of the profession were also taken aback by its publishing.

I'm betting it just got into the wrong hands. It's really sad when you can take a picture and make your own caption and have the entire internet believe it. What happened to questioning?

 

[cloverbug]

I gotcha. We were able to do patient specific info too like what was talked about during the appointment. It was a little less complicated because we only dealt with eyes and the office was run crazy efficiently, but the doctor would spend the last two minutes of the exam typing up a quick summary of what was discussed. The diagnoses were already in the computer so the discharge instructions populated the diagnoses, discussion/overview of the appointment, medications, etc. then they would get specific disease hand outs in addition.
Edit: my point being with the right tools and protocols it can be integrated, though I think that office was a special circumstance. It was amazing to see the insane amount of productivity when an office is run that well.

Oh, that's pretty cool. Yea I think in a general practice clinic that would be a lot harder because there's so many different illnesses an animal can have, though I agree if the clinic is ran by someone with OCD type tendencies it can be crazy efficient lol. There's plenty of things I want to put into brochures for the owners but I lack the knowledge to really do it. It'd save so much time in the end though.

 

[BlackDog17]

I'm betting it just got into the wrong hands. It's really sad when you can take a picture and make your own caption and have the entire internet believe it. What happened to questioning?

People still question. They just choose to question science, research, and professionals instead of internet anecdotes. Anti-intelligence is unfortunately a very real and growing problem.

 

[Foxhunter]

Whenever we get something that is particularly bad, we contact the company that is hosting the review and tell them that they will receive a cease and desist order due to slander and if they don't comply, we'll take them to court for slander. Is that what the service your clinic was offered? That's about the best way to get rid of bad reviews is if you threaten the company with a slander lawsuit that we've tried. Granted, we also have the contracts that we use so we can show whether or not the client held up their end of the bargain, too.

What sort of contracts are these? I'm curious and would love to see one.

 

[Lissarae06]

Websites like DVM360 (I think Vin has some, too) have a ton of resources that you can print for your clients. I know someone mentioned email as well. A few of the services at Oklahoma State email discharge instructions to clients. It keeps the client from having to wait for them and they still get everything in writing. It also allows the students and residents to take a little more time writing them so they are more thorough.

 

[Filly Bay]

I recently took my & SO's dog to OSU vet hospital to check out her ears. Later on I couldn't remember what exactly the vet said was wrong with her ears. Then I received a discharge email with everything we discussed on it and it was so helpful! Not sure if this is only for vet students who take pets to OSU vet but I think that's another great way to communicate with clients who may not remember everything while they're there.

 

[orca2011]

I recently took my & SO's dog to OSU vet hospital to check out her ears. Later on I couldn't remember what exactly the vet said was wrong with her ears. Then I received a discharge email with everything we discussed on it and it was so helpful! Not sure if this is only for vet students who take pets to OSU vet but I think that's another great way to communicate with clients who may not remember everything while they're there.

Penn does something pretty similar. The amount of detail you get may vary a little based on the student/attending writing things up, but I think they're generally pretty thorough. Same form goes out to clients that aren't students/faculty.

 

[chickenlittle]

There are also great client education handouts at veterinarypartner.com

At my current job, I'll type at least a brief discharge note for every patient that I see (prints on the receipt and I summarize any abnormal findings and what we discussed) and then use the Veterinary Partner handouts for more detailed discussion of more significant issues like feline lower urinary tract disease, demodex, hypothyroidism.