Dartmouth vs. Pittsburgh

[SUZY79]

Hi, All. I'm new to this web site, but need your help! I got off of both dartmouth and pittsburgh's waitlist this past week and can't decide which to choose! I would love any opinons, advice, comments...thanks!

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[skypilot]

This should be an easy choice. They are both great schools but Pitt is a real research powerhouse. Does that matter to you? Do you prefer urban or rural? Would you rather live in Pittsburgh or Hanover NH? Do you like a class size of 60-80 or would you prever 150 plus?

 

[musicman1991]

Pitt - it will open a lot more doors in the future and give you a hand in your residency application. Unless of course you want to be in Dartmouth's location. even if you arent' interested in research, attending a med school with research focus won't affect your education. It will open more doors.

 

[SunnyS81]

Dartmouth has a medical school?

Who knew?

Pitt all the way. Much better place to live than Hanover.

 

[meanderson]

If you want to pursue research opportunities in med school, go to pitt. Pitt is much more of a research power than dartmouth. If not, it really doesn't matter all that much. Big differences between the locales though, so it should all come down to whether you like pittsburgh or hanover.

I'd probably go to dartmouth because I wouldn't want to live in pittsburgh and I wouldn't take advantage of the extra research opportunities at pitt anyway.

 

[skypilot]

Dartmouth has a medical school?

Who knew?

Pitt all the way. Much better place to live than Hanover.

I dunno, some people would consider a quaint New England college town the ideal place to live. I thought Pitt was great but there are plenty of people that don't want to live in Pittsburgh. Another unique thing about Dartmouth is the small class size. It gives you lots of individual attention but you cannot be anonymous either.

 

[skypilot]

If it helps I liked Pitt's block curriculum (one course at a time!) and P/F grading.

 

[TheRussian]

I'm in a similar situation as the OP although I am still on the Pitt waitlist. I still have to decide what to do should I get of the waitlist because I'll be out of the country in two weeks. Anyways from reading this post and many others like it seems that no one would have any reason to pick DMS over Pitt. What you don't realize is that there are so many factors that are important that most people overlook. Here are some pro's for me anyway for both schools

Dartmouth:
Closer to home
great financial aid
amazing hospital
required away rotations all over the country
new cancer research wing (if I decide to do research this would be the area)
great reputation outside the medical circles and a good one within
small class size

Pitt:
Bigger city
More research opportunities (I've never done any so I don't know how big of a deal this is
Will open more doors in academia though DMS will open plenty
Innovative curriculum.

Hope this helps.

 

[musicman1991]

I am graduating from med school this year so I feel really strongly about going to the best med school and not consider clinical vs. research. They are meaningless. Even if you apply to family practice you will get a good education at a "research" school and people will still regard you highly when you apply. Pittsburgh is a decent enough city for 4 years 3 of which you will be busy as hell.

And no I don't have an affiliation with Pitt or Dartmouth. I interviewed at Pitt for residency and found the UPMC health system to be really impressive. Great pathology, great technology in the hospital.

But anyways good luck with your decision.

 

[Harps]

Well, I never knew there was a university of pittsburg..much less them having a medical school (the only thing I knew about pittsburg was Steelers)...I am trying to point out that we all come from different backgrounds I only heard about Upitt on these boards!!! It's not well known about in Cali. Anyhow, a family member of mine graduated from DMS and was recruited heavily by U of M and UDubb for residency...so I know quite a bit about DMS....a lot of the faculty at DMS comes from Harvard/Yale...I don't know anything about Upitt..but I do know DMS has a great tradition of producing top notch clincians. In addition, the school's history is also really neat...i believe DMS opened in 1797. I do not personally believe going UPitt would give you a distinct advantage in residency over DMS....this is open to question...lol....who can say with definitive proof...a MS1, MS2, MS3...lol

-Harps

 

[CalBeE]

Well, I never knew there was a university of pittsburg..much less them having a medical school (the only thing I knew about pittsburg was Steelers)...I am trying to point out that we all come from different backgrounds I only heard about Upitt on these boards!!! It's not well known about in Cali. Anyhow, a family member of mine graduated from DMS and was recruited heavily by U of M and UDubb for residency...so I know quite a bit about DMS....a lot of the faculty at DMS comes from Harvard/Yale...I don't know anything about Upitt..but I do know DMS has a great tradition of producing top notch clincians. In addition, the school's history is also really neat...i believe DMS opened in 1797. I do not personally believe going UPitt would give you a distinct advantage in residency over DMS....this is open to question...lol....who can say with definitive proof...a MS1, MS2, MS3...lol

-Harps

It seems like people from Cali ONLY knows about: 1. Californian schools 2. East Coast-Ivy schools. It's not surprising I guess...Cali's almost like a country by itself

UPitt, Vanderbilt, Emory, UMich, etc. just don't have much recognition in California as a result.

 

[DMBUGA34]

Other than those to the UPMC, I don't think Pitt will open any doors Dartmouth can't (students from both schools match very well). Also, DMS increased their NIH funding by 24% this past year, according to the NIH director who recently also commented on DMS's ability to bring in top researchers. Dartmouth doesn't lack research quality, comparatively, it lacks quantity since it's a small school.

OP - unless you're hardcore into research (in which case Pitt would definitely be the best choice), don't make your choice based on who's the bigger research school. Both schools will offer plenty of research opportunities if you're only interested in them to help you during the match.

I'm with those that say your decision should come down to where you'd want to live. Big city, or New England college town? Dartmouth requires you do at least 1 away rotation (LA/Miami/Arizona/Alaska/Hartford,CT/New Zealand), that they pay for, would that bother you? Pitt's in Pittsburg, would that bother you?

 

[jlee9531]

wow 2 nice schools.
tough...
both are excellent for your medical education.
the real difference is the location. so see where you would like to live.

and i hear the dms hospital is hella nice.

 

[musicman1991]

You guys are very opinionated and seem to have made up your mind. I hope you are all more open-minded after you start medical school. I love to see pre-meds theorizing on what works and what doesn't work. I just graduated medical school, matched at a top radiology program, and can tell you that going to Pitt will open more doors than Dartmouth. You all think you are going to do primary care or whatever but the truth is that you will most likely change your mind. Pitt can get you into a top radiology, family practice, or peds program. Forget Dartmouth for the extra edge if you decide to do ortho, urology, rad onc, derm, etc. They don't even have most of their own residency programs.......

 

[elias514]

Pitt isn't going to open any more doors than DMS--they're both excellent medical schools. DMS won't do anything for ortho, eh? Why don't you take a look at the ortho house staff at Mass. Gen. Hospital--you'll see several students from DMS. The match lists don't lie, DMS students do quite well in the Match. So my advice is to not pick either school because of a difference in reputation score--IMHO, the US News rankings are total horse crap. Go where you'll be happy.

 

[Harps]

You guys are very opinionated and seem to have made up your mind. I hope you are all more open-minded after you start medical school. I love to see pre-meds theorizing on what works and what doesn't work. I just graduated medical school, matched at a top radiology program, and can tell you that going to Pitt will open more doors than Dartmouth. You all think you are going to do primary care or whatever but the truth is that you will most likely change your mind. Pitt can get you into a top radiology, family practice, or peds program. Forget Dartmouth for the extra edge if you decide to do ortho, urology, rad onc, derm, etc. They don't even have most of their own residency programs.......

I want what you're smoking! At least provide some substantial evidence that suggests Pitt will give you an extra-edge over DMS...lol..and you said we were "very opinionated"...

-Harps

 

[DMBUGA34]

Pitt can get you into a top radiology, family practice, or peds program. Forget Dartmouth for the extra edge if you decide to do ortho, urology, rad onc, derm, etc. They don't even have most of their own residency programs

We're opinionated? You don't think you can get into top programs coming from DMS? At DMS, around 15% of 4th years matched at Harvard this year, that's not too shabby is it? 10% matched at top southern schools (Vandy, Duke and UVA) and another 15% matched out West (UW, UCSD, USC, UCSF, UCD, UCI). Plenty matched in TX and the midwest. Last year 12% matched at either Stanford or UCSF, and 30% matched at either Harvard, UCSF, Stanford, Columbia, Penn, Yale or Cornell. Though not known for trauma cases, DMS still managed to match Emergency Med at UCSF both years, and at UCLA and Harvard last year. BTW, I'm using those top Cali schools to show that DMS is well thought of out West too. I don't have this year's numbers, but last year, 54% of those who did the Dartmouth-Brown program matched at either Harvard, U Penn, Columbia, or Yale. That number goes up to 82% if we include Brown. There's plenty more I'm leaving out, but I'm not trying to say DMS matches better than UPitt, I'm trying to show that DMS has no problem matching it's students at top programs all over the nation.

 

[Harps]

We're opinionated? You don't think you can get into top programs coming from DMS? At DMS, around 15% of 4th years matched at Harvard this year, that's not too shabby is it? 10% matched at top southern schools (Vandy, Duke and UVA) and another 15% matched out West (UW, UCSD, USC, UCSF, UCD, UCI). Plenty matched in TX and the midwest. Last year 12% matched at either Stanford or UCSF, and 30% matched at either Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Penn, Yale or Cornell. Though not known for trauma cases, DMS still managed to match Emergency Med at UCSF both years, and at UCLA and Harvard last year. BTW, I'm using those top Cali schools to show that DMS is well thought of out West too. There were still more that matched at UCSD, USC, UCD and UCI too. I don't have this year's numbers, but last year, 54% of those who did the Dartmouth-Brown program matched at either Harvard, U Penn, Columbia, or Yale. That number goes up to 82% if we include Brown. There's plenty more I'm leaving out, but I'm not trying to say DMS matches better than UPitt, I'm trying to show that DMS has no problem matching it's students at top programs all over the nation.

-Harps

 

[Gleevec]

Dartmouth has a medical school?
Who knew?

Im glad Im not the only one who didnt know.

 

[jlee9531]

You guys are very opinionated and seem to have made up your mind. I hope you are all more open-minded after you start medical school. I love to see pre-meds theorizing on what works and what doesn't work. I just graduated medical school, matched at a top radiology program, and can tell you that going to Pitt will open more doors than Dartmouth. You all think you are going to do primary care or whatever but the truth is that you will most likely change your mind. Pitt can get you into a top radiology, family practice, or peds program. Forget Dartmouth for the extra edge if you decide to do ortho, urology, rad onc, derm, etc. They don't even have most of their own residency programs.......

actually if you have been paying attn at all...
most of the people it seems want to specialize.

 

[musicman1991]

Ok didn't mean to light a fire under all you..

My point is this. You can match at a top program from ANY SCHOOL. The worst medical school can match a student into Harvard for the most competitive specialty. But the AVERAGE applicant from Pitt will match better than Dartmouth. The faculty at Pitt are well known and can provide letters of recommendation. If you want to do a competive speciality you will benefit from research opportunities, which are better than Pitt. Don't rule out going into speciality because you think you want to be Dr. Benton General Surgeon on ER.

I only pointed out that you can go into FP, Peds or IM from Pitt because many people try to seperate clinical or research oriented schools. I don't think there is a big difference because people in research schools get the same education as clinical schools and the ones that apply to primary care are just as succesful.

Anyways since everyone here knows it all no point explaining it. Let's see how many of you still want to do primary care after your first month of med school. Come on folks, the admissions game is over, time to be honest.

Signing off....

 

[DMBUGA34]

Ok didn't mean to light a fire under all you..

My point is this. You can match at a top program from ANY SCHOOL. The worst medical school can match a student into Harvard for the most competitive specialty. But the AVERAGE applicant from Pitt will match better than Dartmouth. The faculty at Pitt are well known and can provide letters of recommendation. If you want to do a competive speciality you will benefit from research opportunities, which are better than Pitt. Don't rule out going into speciality because you think you want to be Dr. Benton General Surgeon on ER.

I only pointed out that you can go into FP, Peds or IM from Pitt because many people try to seperate clinical or research oriented schools. I don't think there is a big difference because people in research schools get the same education as clinical schools and the ones that apply to primary care are just as succesful.

Anyways since everyone here knows it all no point explaining it. Let's see how many of you still want to do primary care after your first month of med school. Come on folks, the admissions game is over, time to be honest.

Signing off....

Who mentioned anything about primary care? Anyways, I think that you know nothing about DMS and you're making too many incorrect assumptions. Seriously, is USNews your only source? DMS also has plenty of well known faculty, and considering the class size is much smaller (around 65 come rotation time), it's probably easier to get one of those coveted LORs you speak of since students, on average, probably enjoy closer relationships with their professors. Pitt's only real advantage over DMS when it comes to matching is that a match at UPMC looks better than one at DHMC. However, when it comes to matching at different schools, I don't believe a Pitt grad will have any sort of advantage over a DMS grad. As I tried to point out earlier, DMS has a great reputation nationwide.

This is silly.

 

[Harps]

But the AVERAGE applicant from Pitt will match better than Dartmouth.

WHAT?? Dude, again, after you make such statements, qualify these!
Where did you attend medical school? We can only guess

-Harps

 

[Xmulder]

Ok didn't mean to light a fire under all you..

My point is this. You can match at a top program from ANY SCHOOL. The worst medical school can match a student into Harvard for the most competitive specialty. But the AVERAGE applicant from Pitt will match better than Dartmouth. The faculty at Pitt are well known and can provide letters of recommendation. If you want to do a competive speciality you will benefit from research opportunities, which are better than Pitt. Don't rule out going into speciality because you think you want to be Dr. Benton General Surgeon on ER.

I only pointed out that you can go into FP, Peds or IM from Pitt because many people try to seperate clinical or research oriented schools. I don't think there is a big difference because people in research schools get the same education as clinical schools and the ones that apply to primary care are just as succesful.

Anyways since everyone here knows it all no point explaining it. Let's see how many of you still want to do primary care after your first month of med school. Come on folks, the admissions game is over, time to be honest.

Signing off....

Man, you are an idiot. You have it completely backwards. It is Dartmouth that has a much better reputation than Pitt, for heaven's sake. DMS is Ivy ranked, small class like someone else said, much more elite and prestigious nationally and worldwide. Who the heck is Pitt? Forget clincial vs. research vs. specialty vs. primary care, no one outside of the Northeast would even recognize Pitt, much less consider it better than DMS. This is not even a comparison.

Also, forget US News. Everyone in the know knows that DMS would be ranked in the top 10 if it were not such a small school with a small NIH budget. US News gives heavy weighting on this budget by school.

Get your facts straight, learn to keeep things in perspective, and stop spreading misinformation.

 

[CalBeE]

Man, you are an idiot. You have it completely backwards. It is Dartmouth that has a much better reputation than Pitt, for heaven's sake. DMS is Ivy ranked, small class like someone else said, much more elite and prestigious nationally and worldwide. Who the heck is Pitt? Forget clincial vs. research vs. specialty vs. primary care, no one outside of the Northeast would even recognize Pitt, much less consider it better than DMS. This is not even a comparison.

Also, forget US News. Everyone in the know knows that DMS would be ranked in the top 10 if it were not such a small school with a small NIH budget. US News gives heavy weighting on this budget by school.

Get your facts straight, learn to keeep things in perspective, and stop spreading misinformation.

Dartmouth is rapidly increasing its NIH funding, but I wouldn't say it would be in Top 10 if NIH funding's not a ranking factor. Also, regardless of what the public thinks of Pitt, its hospital's still reputable for various specialties, and it's still on the honors roll for US News' best hospitals.

I mean, people outside the science/medical field probably haven't heard of UCSF either...heck I'm in Southern Cali and many non-pre-med don't even know there is a UC in San Francisco...does it mean it's not a good school? Heck no, it's just b/c it doesn't have undergrad programs and it's only a health science campus.

 

[Mr. Rosewater]

Man, you are an idiot. You have it completely backwards. It is Dartmouth that has a much better reputation than Pitt, for heaven's sake. DMS is Ivy ranked, small class like someone else said, much more elite and prestigious nationally and worldwide. Who the heck is Pitt? Forget clincial vs. research vs. specialty vs. primary care, no one outside of the Northeast would even recognize Pitt, much less consider it better than DMS. This is not even a comparison.

Also, forget US News. Everyone in the know knows that DMS would be ranked in the top 10 if it were not such a small school with a small NIH budget. US News gives heavy weighting on this budget by school.

Get your facts straight, learn to keeep things in perspective, and stop spreading misinformation.

that's a pretty stupid post. how the hell do you know anything about what "people in the know think." at pitt, you have a world class hospital system (dms can't even compare here), one of the top 10 research institutions (again, no comparison) and some really awesome med school technology (not sure how dms compares as far as sims and stuff). so to purport that you have some phenomonal insight into the relative reputation of either place is stupid and you become the one spreading misinformation.

i should also add, you'll never really know which school the program director at the spot of your choice will regard higher. this should be a pretty easy choice though, since they're such drastically different places. i would think that if i was deciding between two such different places, i'd have a pretty clear opinion of which is better.

 

[DMBUGA34]

Due to its size, Dartmouth will probably not be a top 10 school, but it will continue to match it's students as well as any non top 10 school out there. Do people really think Mayo's only the 22nd best school in the nation? USNews is biased against smaller schools.....

OP - do you have a car? I don't know about public transportation in Pittsburg, but you'll definitely need one at DMS.

Let's not turn this thread into a pissing contest between 2 great schools. OP should make a decision based on location, fin aid, etc.... For the most part, neither school will out-prestige the other.

 

[fuzzylogic]

man, this is exciting. battle b/w pitt and dms.

the following is my 0.02:

both schools are great. you can't go wrong w/ either one of them. pitt is ranked higher b/c of its research funding/opportunities. dms is reputable b/c of its ivy's affiliation.

i agree w/ calbee that students from cali know a lot about ivys and schools in cali. having said that, it doesn't mean that pitt is a bad school. each school has its pros and cons. as many others suggested previously, you should go w/ YOUR gut feeling. you are the one who has to spend the next 4 yrs in school. you should pick the school that YOU like more.

you could use others' opinions as a guideline, but eventually you should make the decision yourself!

 

[TheFlash]

Man, you are an idiot. You have it completely backwards. It is Dartmouth that has a much better reputation than Pitt, for heaven's sake. DMS is Ivy ranked, small class like someone else said, much more elite and prestigious nationally and worldwide. Who the heck is Pitt? Forget clincial vs. research vs. specialty vs. primary care, no one outside of the Northeast would even recognize Pitt, much less consider it better than DMS. This is not even a comparison.

Also, forget US News. Everyone in the know knows that DMS would be ranked in the top 10 if it were not such a small school with a small NIH budget. US News gives heavy weighting on this budget by school.

Get your facts straight, learn to keeep things in perspective, and stop spreading misinformation.

It doesn't matter if lay people recognize the Dartmouth name more for undergrad related stuff. You should only be concerned about the reputation in the field that you want to pursue a career in, namely medicine. Pitt is a medical powerhouse; Dartmouth is not. Xmulder, DMS is ranked lower on the US News RESEARCH rankings because its RESEARCH money and facilities are subpar... Pitt is ranked in the top 15 because it has NIH funding out the yin yang. The rankings are based on research potential of a school, so your stupid suggestion of removing research from the research rankings is one of the most inane things ever said in pre-allo.

 

[DMBUGA34]

Pitt is a medical powerhouse; Dartmouth is not. Xmulder, DMS is ranked lower on the US News RESEARCH rankings because its RESEARCH money and facilities are subpar

Come on now, this is BS too. DMS research facilities are not subpar at all. Hell, they just opened one of the most unique and innovative cancer labs in the nation in one of the most technologically advanced hospitals in the US. Research money is not subpar but it's less than many other schools due mostly to the fact that they have less, yet top notch researchers. Again, it's a small school, however, research quality is great, especially in cancer. Compared to the DHMC, UPMC is powerhouse for residency purposes, not med school.

 

[Harps]

Xmulder, DMS is ranked lower on the US News RESEARCH rankings because its RESEARCH money and facilities are subpar...

I BELIEVE they have one of the highest NIH funding per faculty in the country! Facilities are subpar? Check out their hospital!!

And how does one determine whether facilities are subpar or not...lol.. c'mon now. It's a small school.

-Harps

 

[elias514]

This whole debate over which school is more prestigious and reputable is ******ed. Y'all describe Pitt in almost orgasmic terms--like it's another Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Penn, etc. Pitt and Dartmouth are about the same in terms of prestige; neither school is considered a heavy hitter at the med school level. US News rankings are dumb and misleading. Don't pay attention to them. Go where you'll be happy.

 

[TheFlash]

Ok, subpar was strong language, but I was referring to their small numbers (whether its NIH money or number of faculty). Bottomline is that, in terms of research, IMO the amount of research potential of a school does depend on the number (not the ratio) of overall available resources.

 

[skypilot]

They are a small school so the NIH money per medical student must be huge. They draw patients from all over Maine, NH, and Vermont. Research is not necessarily relevant when you are learning the bread and butter of medicine as a medical student. Classes are held in the morning so your afternoons are free for mountain biking or kayaking. They match lots of people into Harvard so your residency is not really in question. New Hampshire is a great place to have kids.

 

[BaseballFan]

This is a funny conversation.

The lifestyles are so different, prestige would be the LAST thing I'd think about when differentiating between them-

Dartmouth is in a very small town. The changes of the seasons lead to temperature fluxuations sometimes of 110 degrees in a year, from -20s in winter to 90s in summer. The class size of Dartmouth is very small, there are very few 20somethings in hanover, etc. etc.

Pitt is in a large city, with less severe weather. The class size is large, lots of 20somethings in the big city, etc. etc.

Seriously, differentiating between them in terms of prestige is like having a conversation about whether to go to Harvard or to MIT undergrad based entirely on their location in cambridge, and not looking at any other factors.

We premeds have no clue about the difference in "prestige" between the two. To the OP- don't believe what anyone on SDN says about their prestige.

 

[Gleevec]

This whole debate over which school is more prestigious and reputable is ******ed. Y'all describe Pitt in almost orgasmic terms--like it's another Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Penn, etc. Pitt and Dartmouth are about the same in terms of prestige; neither school is considered a heavy hitter at the med school level. US News rankings are dumb and misleading. Don't pay attention to them. Go where you'll be happy.

Pitt might not be a heavy hitter in the same way Harvard, Hopkins, Duke, Penn are, but its in the rung right below that. If anything, Pitt is underrated at the medical school level because its clinical curriculum is very very strong. It has a lot of nationally recognized clinical departments.

Im really not joking about me not know anything about Dartmouth-- and in terms of small class size, Stanford and Mayo (and Duke to some extent) are really small too, yet manage to do really well.

Theyre both good schools Im sure, but dont let the Ivy name be the end all be all of your decision. Pitt is in a major city and is on the up-and-up. Its clinical programs are superb and are nationally recognized for their quality.

If it were me, Id be going to Pitt for those reasons, but then again, this isnt my decision. Go where you think yall enjoy yourself more.

 

[musicman1991]

That was my point exactly, Pitt is a more highly regarded school and one notch below the elite med schools. Dartmouth is not quoted in that group. But yeah the locations are different and to me, depressing in different ways. No one is saying those that go to Dartmouth are screwed and can't get a residency in a competitive place (because clearly they can) but it's a lot easier coming from Pitt. Look at the Pitt match list on SDN.

 

[DMBUGA34]

No one is saying those that go to Dartmouth are screwed and can't get a residency in a competitive place (because clearly they can) but it's a lot easier coming from Pitt. Look at the Pitt match list on SDN.

How is it a lot easier coming from Pitt? That's the part of your argument that doesn't make sense. Looking at both match lists, those who decided to leave Pitt and those who decided to leave DMS matched just as well. However, according to you, since it is so much easier to match that well from Pitt than from DMS, Dartmouth is just full of gunners right? Anyone that's been to DMS knows that's complete BS

 

[Moose1]

can we get a link to this coveted UPitt match list?

 

[DMBUGA34]

can we get a link to this coveted UPitt match list?

All I could find was a partial list posted by Doctor Octopus, and it's great. Primary care has been left off. I don't think that those who decided to leave Pitt had an advantage over those who decided to leave DMS. Pitt also has over 150 students, DMS graduated under 50 this past year. I'd be nice to have the full Pitt list. To answer the questions "All things being equal, will graduating from Pitt give you an edge in the match over a graduate from DMS?" My answer all along has been, not unless they want to go to the UPMC. That's why I'm telling the OP, like many others are, not to base her decision on "prestige," but to base it on the many other differences between the schools

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=110559&page=3&pp=20&highlight=pitt+list

"Here's some of Pitt:

General Surgery
Yale
U. Chicago
Maine Medical Center x2
Case
Pitt x2
Brigham

Ortho
Pitt
Stonybrook
UNC Chapel Hill
UC Irvine
Pitt x2
William Beaumont (MI)
UCLA
U. Rochester

ENT
UNC Chapel Hill
Pitt

Plastic
USC
Pitt

Optho
Pitt x2
U. Maryland

Emergency Med
Mayo
Hennepin Co Med MN
Yale x2
Pitt x5
Geisinger (PA)
Orlando Regional
U. Arizona
North Western
Beth Isreal Deaconess (Boston)
Suny
Emory
Lincoln (Bronx)

GAS
Pitt x3
Duke
U of Pa hospital (Philly)
U Virginia x2

Radiology
Pitt x2
Yale
Rochester

Maxillofacial Surg
Pitt x2

Derm
U Texas
pitt

Neuro surg
Pitt
Oregon"

 

[DMBUGA34]

Here's DMS's full list. According to the poster, ND Gas, no one was interested in Derm, and the only person interested in Opth decided to extend his 4th year to do research. As to why there were so few graduates, he explains "2 are deferring their residency and 16 are splitting their fourth year for any number of reasons - international electives, research, personal, etc. So, we do have an abnormally low number of graduates this year."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=124004&page=2&pp=20

"Here's Dartmouth's Match List:

Utah - general surgery
Dartmouth - ortho
Vanderbilt - internal medicine
U. Maryland - internal medicine
Dartmouth - plastics
Northwestern - anesthesia
BI Deaconess- general surgery
Duke - internal medicine
Yale - anesthesia
UC Davis - internal medicine
George Washington - ortho
USC - general surgery
U Chicago - diagnostic radiology
UVa - anesthesiology
Dartmouth - general surgery
Madigan Army Med Center - pathology
Mt. Auburn/Harvard - diagnostic radiology
BI Deaconess - anesthesia
Cambridge Hospital/Harvard - psych
Maine Medical - diagnostic radiology
Dartmouth - peds
Tufts - neurology
Dartmouth - prelim surgery
UConn - emergency medicine
Brown - peds/psych/child psych
UVa - diagnostic radiology
Cambridge/Harvard- psych
Dartmouth - neurosurgery
Naval Medical Center San Diego - OB/Gyn
Providence Milwaukie - Family Practice
Duke - OB/Gyn
Utah - Peds
Dartmouth - general surgery
Boston Childrens - Peds
Penn State - neurosurgery
Dartmouth - anesthesia
Alameda Co Medical Center/UCSF - emergency medicine
Baylor - family medicine
Greater Lawrence Family Health Center - family practice
NY Presb/Cornell - prelim surgery
U Minnesota - internal medicine (x2)
Yale - internal medicine
NYU - emergency medicine
NY Medical College - general surgery
Maine Medical - internal medicine
NY Presb/Cornell - anesthesia"

 

[scootad.]

Dont base your decision on US news rank. DMS is at a huge disadvantage b/c of its size. Both schools are equivalent.

People who insist that Pitt is just a rung below the elite schools whereas DMS is not are idiots. Stupid. Learn to think indepedently. Reading US News like it was the Bible. Watch Pitt fall to 19 next year, see people's opinions change accordingly, and regret your decision to go there based only on its "prestige." What a load of crap.

Go where you wanna live for 4 years. You'll do well from either school if you work hard. And you'll do poorly from either school if yer lazy.

 

[BaylorLion]

With all due respect, I think people are basing their Pitt opinions more on the fact that it's one of the top 10 med schools in NIH funding. Even if you argue that they're getting all that funding because they have more researchers, they have to have the infrastructure to support the labs of those many researchers, and NIH money is a pretty unbiased arbiter of research quality. NIH rankings tend to be a pretty good indicator of future reputation - if, over time, a school is consistently a top winner of NIH money, other faculty notices and its reputation increases. More top faculty want to go to those schools, because they figure there's strong intramural support and the school's reputation within the NIH community is equally strong.

That said, I don't know much about Dartmouth's medical school. People on this board seem to love it, and there's a point after which most medical schools in this country are fairly equal, and it's going to depend on your individual performance as to where you end up.

 

[TheRussian]

If you are seriously interested in research and pursuing a career in academic medicine then the difference in research between the two schools is significant. This is not only because Pitt gets more money and has "better" facillities but because at Pitt you will interact with many other researchers of the future. I was told that it is important to get to know a lot of your collegues of the future and for this reason going to Pitt would be more advantageous if you are interested in research and academic medicine.

 

[Gleevec]

Dont base your decision on US news rank. DMS is at a huge disadvantage b/c of its size. Both schools are equivalent.

People who insist that Pitt is just a rung below the elite schools whereas DMS is not are idiots. Stupid. Learn to think indepedently. Reading US News like it was the Bible. Watch Pitt fall to 19 next year, see people's opinions change accordingly, and regret your decision to go there based only on its "prestige." What a load of crap.

Dont base your decision on US news rank. DMS is at a huge disadvantage b/c of its size. Both schools are equivalent.

People who insist that Pitt is just a rung below the elite schools whereas DMS is not are idiots. Stupid. Learn to think indepedently. Reading US News like it was the Bible. Watch Pitt fall to 19 next year, see people's opinions change accordingly, and regret your decision to go there based only on its "prestige." What a load of crap.

Go where you wanna live for 4 years. You'll do well from either school if you work hard. And you'll do poorly from either school if yer lazy.

Gimme a break scootad, I dont know if you got rejected from Pitt or whatever, but you very clearly have a bias against Pitt... that's "independent" thinking for ya.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1424224#post1424224

"Well I have yet to see anyone refute bearpaw's argument:

1. Most of Pitt's "great" matches are at UPMC.
2. If UPMC is such an amazing place to do residency, why do students from elite schools consistently refuse to pack up and do their residency there despite the less than desirable locale.

Sorry, it just doesnt add up.
The bottomline: Pitt is overrated."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1424023#post1424023

[in regard to Pitt vs. Tufts] "these two schools are pretty much equivalent. its like splitting hairs."

So I guess if "thinking independently" is emotionally railing at a school for some personal reason unrelated to logic or general sentiment of the quality of a school's program, you got that market covered scootad.

So if you REALLY believe that Tufts is as good as Pitt, then believe scootad when he says Dartmouth is as good as Pitt. If "thinking independently" is going to an Ivy just because its an Ivy, regardless of the quality of the education there, then go to Dartmouth.

Pitt is the more regarded school in terms of research and clinical prowess regardless of whether US News states this fact or not (which it in fact does).

 

[BaylorLion]

I don't know if the facilities at Pitt are necessarily better, but the infrastructure definitely is, in that it can support a larger amount of research (and therefore, a wider variety of research, which means more to choose from if you're into that). The small school excuse only goes so far. Stanford's class is small... Mayo and Cleveland Clinics are both extremely small... all 3 pull in major funding.

I doubt you'd be at a disadvantage going to Dartmouth, all that being said. And I'm inclined to believe that the poster who wrote that the staggering differences in location and culture between the two should make the decision between the two an easy one is right on the money.

 

[DMBUGA34]

I doubt you'd be at a disadvantage going to Dartmouth, all that being said. And I'm inclined to believe that the poster who wrote that the staggering differences in location and culture between the two should make the decision between the two an easy one is right on the money.

Hehe, we've come back to what everyone had been saying in the beginning. If your main interest is research go to Pitt, otherwise, go where you'll feel more comfortable. All I was trying to say was that come match day, you won't be in any sort of disadvantage going to DMS because it enjoys a very good reputation nationwide.

The small school excuse only goes so far. Stanford's class is small... Mayo and Cleveland Clinics are both extremely small... all 3 pull in major funding.

Mayo's the only ranked school smaller than DMS and I do believe that both are underrated by over 10 spots. I consider Mayo as good as any top 10, yet it's ranked 22nd (it doesn't pull all that much funding). Comparatively, Stanford's is not all that small (twice as big as DMS, and isn't it as big as JHU, Duke and Cornell?), and the Cleveland Clinic is in a big city (very different from Mayo and DMS). I consider Mayo and Stanford elite schools (isn't the Cleveland Clinic's school brand new? I know nothing about it) attached to great overall hospitals. I consider both DMS and Pitt great schools but DMS is attached to good overall hospitals while Pitt is attached to great ones (hence all the research). However, between DMS and Pitt, I don't think grads of either one has an educational or prestige advantage over the other.

Pitt is the more regarded school in terms of research and clinical prowess regardless of whether US News states this fact or not (which it in fact does).

Research? Yes, Clinical prowess? Very debatable. Besides, how can you judge two different schools after admitting you know absolutely nothing about one of them? DMS has a very strong clinical reputation because from all accounts (coming from 4th years), during rotations students get lots of hands on experience and plenty of personal attention combined with very little (if any) scut work.

 

[Heal&Teach]

So has the OP actually made a decision yet? Suzy?

 

[Mr. Rosewater]

Research? Yes, Clinical prowess? Very debatable.

actually, it's not that debatable. first off, it's an absolutely HUGE system. they've got three or four hospitals that are large enough to sustain med schools unto themselves. secondly, they're the only game in town, so pretty much anything related to medicine in swestern pa is open to pitt students. third, you don't get onto the usnwr honor roll for nothing. fourth, their surgery dept. is world renowned and they have one of the most prominent orthopods in the industry. of course you're right about one thing, the research is clearly superior as well.

btw, gleevec, great job doing your homework. definitely helps to know where someone is coming from.

 

[DMBUGA34]

actually, it's not that debatable. first off, it's an absolutely HUGE system. they've got three or four hospitals that are large enough to sustain med schools unto themselves. secondly, they're the only game in town, so pretty much anything related to medicine in swestern pa is open to pitt students. third, you don't get onto the usnwr honor roll for nothing. fourth, their surgery dept. is world renowned and they have one of the most prominent orthopods in the industry. of course you're right about one thing, the research is clearly superior as well.

I'm not talking about the clinical prowess of the UPMC compared to the DHMC. I'd never be stupid enough to argue that, I know UPMC is bigger and better.

I'm talking about the clinical education each school provides. (Notice Gleevec said "Pitt is a more regarded school" not "Pitt has a more regarded hospital system") DMS is known for training its students very well (something Gleevec has admitted to knowning nothing about). I'm sure Pitt is too, but I wouldn't say one trains better than the other just because the hospital system is bigger. Researching the school I know DMS is well known for its well trained students, so I stand by my claim