Demographics of incoming med school classes

[Lamel]

Here is a list of all current MSTP students. (a subset, but probably representative)

Seems like a pretty good spread.

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[Greenberg702]

wow i wanna know how amazing those other directly from college applicants are.

Personally, I'm curious about the 33 who didn't take a year off and still got into Yale. Those guys are, IMO, pretty unique applicants (though I anticipate they're from HYPSM or related top schools)

At my undergrad the only people who took time off got other amazing, unique gigs that they would never get a chance to take up ever again. One of my friends is going to be an analyst at Blackstone (very rare straight out of college), another one is serving as an aide in the congressional budget office and a third is coordinating a research project between MIT and Peking U while bolstering her mandarin. If you can do something like this, then I'd definitely say go for it.

As for me, I was very adamant about not taking time off between college and med school. The trick to going straight through to an elite school is getting involved in research early (I already had a pub by sophomore year) and nailing your academics (3.9+/38+). I also made sure to get long-term clinical/volunteering experiences going freshman year so by the time I was a rising senior, I had already checked off all the boxes making a gap year unnecessary to bolster my app.

 

[DermViser]

Also, Yale does not intend to train primary care providers. The Yale System is designed to produce the next generation of physician-investigators who will populate medical school faculties. A thesis is required for graduation and it has been that way for decades. Clearly, it isn't the place for people who are interested solely in primary care.

Yup, primary care is for the rest of us plebians.

 

[Greenberg702]

Yup, primary care is for the rest of us plebians.

haha. I think there's a big disconnect between how adcoms view what top tier applicants/students are supposed to do and what their actual motivations are. Look at some of the sub-specialty forums on SDN or Auntminnie/Uncle Harvey (RIP). The #1 piece of advice they give is "tell everybody you're interested in academics. Not saying you're going to do academic derm/rads/peds/whatever will kill your app." Clearly, what people are claiming isn't genuine. While it's true that a larger proportion of top tier students end up in academics, the vast majority are seeking elite academic residencies for the prestige/job placement opportunities at top groups all over the country. I think Hopkins neurosurgery funnels 80-90% of their graduates into PP. Do you think those people said that they wanted to do private practice? Of course not. Same thing with primary care. Just because some curriculum is designed to achieve something doesn't mean that kids at top schools are any more likely to do what those at other schools aren't. People are people.

 

[compstomper]

The latest AAMC statistics reports that the average med school matriculant has a household income of well over 100k+. With the recent AMCAS changes with regards to reporting a med school applicant's socioeconomic status, I'd be interested in seeing if there were any changes with regards to the socioeconomic composition of med school matriculants or lack thereof.

 

[el_duderino]

Ivy is a blanket statement to include all top schools.

No.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Here is a list of all current MSTP students. (a subset, but probably representative)

Seemed to be a good mix.

 

[Greenberg702]

The latest AAMC statistics reports that the average med school matriculant has a household income of well over 100k+. With the recent AMCAS changes with regards to reporting a med school applicant's socioeconomic status, I'd be interested in seeing if there were any changes with regards to the socioeconomic composition of med school matriculants or lack thereof.

I suspect that this has led to an increase in household income. Most gap year activities are expensive and funding is often very competitive. Not everyone can afford post-bacs or their living expenses. Just a hunch though.

 

[LizzyM]

I suspect that this has led to an increase in household income. Most gap year activities are expensive and funding is often very competitive. Not everyone can afford post-bacs or their living expenses. Just a hunch though.

High income households are over-represented among medical students nationally. That is undisputed and I doubt that it has changed much. On the other hand, there are many gap year activities that are not expensive. You don't have to be rich to do Teach for America (it pays a teacher's salary) or Peace Corps (modest stipend for living expenses) , or join the military,(modest salary), or be employed in a lab as a tech for a year or two. Then, too, there are those who have worked in a well paid profession for a few years before switching gears and doing a post-bac with savings and loans.

 

[Greenberg702]

High income households are over-represented among medical students nationally. That is undisputed and I doubt that it has changed much. On the other hand, there are many gap year activities that are not expensive. You don't have to be rich to do Teach for America (it pays a teacher's salary) or Peace Corps (modest stipend for living expenses) , or join the military,(modest salary), or be employed in a lab as a tech for a year or two. Then, too, there are those who have worked in a well paid profession for a few years before switching gears and doing a post-bac with savings and loans.

That's true. TFA and PeaceCorps are competitive though. I know a lot of people who do a little bit of research, maybe some volunteering on the side. Pull ~20K a year and have mommy/daddy pay for everything. A lot of people aren't even paid for the research.

 

[Lawpy]

No.

 

[DermViser]

High income households are over-represented among medical students nationally. That is undisputed and I doubt that it has changed much. On the other hand, there are many gap year activities that are not expensive. You don't have to be rich to do Teach for America (it pays a teacher's salary) or Peace Corps (modest stipend for living expenses) , or join the military,(modest salary), or be employed in a lab as a tech for a year or two. Then, too, there are those who have worked in a well paid profession for a few years before switching gears and doing a post-bac with savings and loans.

Teach for American and Peace Corps have essentially become "notch in your gunbelt" activities.

 

[darkjedi]

Teach for American and Peace Corps have essentially become "notch in your gunbelt" activities.

what a ridiculous statement

 

[DermViser]

what a ridiculous statement

Are you saying top tier medical students are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts vs. trying to get into med school?

 

[LizzyM]

Teach for American and Peace Corps have essentially become "notch in your gunbelt" activities.

And your point would be...? this thread has veered off from demographics of incoming med school classes to what one can do in a gap year (or two) that isn't limited to kids from wealthy families. I have volunteered locally with at least 4 former PCVs. None of them did it to get into med school. I think that service and adventure are what drive these folks.

 

[Lamel]

For UPenn 2013 entering class:

Class Size:

• 168 Matriculants
• 46% Female
• 54% Male

Demographics:

• 19% PA Residents
• 81% Out-of-State Residents
• 45% Black, Hispanic, Asian, or Native Americans
• 60% Non-traditional students
• 14% Combined Degree (MD/PhD)

Average Age:

• Average Age is ~23 (20-32)

Academics:
Median MCAT:

• • VR 11
  • PS 13
  • BS 13
• Median GPA 3.86
• 71% Science Majors
• 29% Non-Science Majors

 

[LizzyM]

For UPenn 2013 entering class:

Class Size:

• 168 Matriculants
• 46% Female
• 54% Male

Demographics:

• 19% PA Residents
• 81% Out-of-State Residents
• 45% Black, Hispanic, Asian, or Native Americans
• 60% Non-traditional students
• 14% Combined Degree (MD/PhD)

Average Age:

• Average Age is ~23 (20-32)

Academics:
Median MCAT:

• • VR 11
  • PS 13
  • BS 13
• Median GPA 3.86
• 71% Science Majors
• 29% Non-Science Majors

Thanks for bringing us back on track.

This item in bold made my eyes pop out then I laughed as I see that Asian was slipped in there. Pretty tricky.

 

[Lamel]

Harvard:

Make-up of the incoming class:
Members of the Fall 2013 HMS entering class::

• from 72 undergraduate institutions, 32 states and 8 foreign countries
• 80% of whom majored in the sciences
• 54% are women, 46% are men
• 18% are from groups that are traditionally underrepresented in medicine
• the class ranges in age from 21-32
  
  • average GPA: 3.8
  • average MCAT scores were:
  • Verbal-11.2
    Physical Science-12.55
    Biological Science-12.61

Northwestern: http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/admissions/process/class-profile.html (more details at link)

Class of 2017:

• 7000+ applicants
• 91 Men, 63 Women
• 71 different undergaduate majors
• 32 different languages spoken - most common are Chinese, Spanish, French
• 22 (14.2%) Non-traditional students (defined as 2+ years off before medical school)
• Age range: 21-31
• 75 undergraduate universities
• 33 states, 10 foreign countries
• Average stats: cGPA = 3.82, sGPA = 3.79, MCAT = 35.3
• 

 

[premed2000]

Hopefully this encourages more people to take some time off. I think most people will actually benefit from it independent from all this medical stuff. It's just good for your development as a person imo.

I cannot agree with this more. I think nowadays, everyone is so focused on improving their application and get carried away that they forget to "live" a life. Gap years not only give you more time to boost your application, but most importantly, it can help you grow a lot as a person. I don't know if everyone would agree with this but I am a very strong advocate of living your life to the fullest. You only get to live once, so why not try to make the most of it?

I've taken one gap year and I am starting school at a top 20 in a few weeks. But damn I wish I can take another year off because there's so much more I want to do!!! Yes, I continued to work in a lab and improved my application, but what else did I do? I pursued many of my other dreams and interests. I became a licensed bartender, I started to learn another foreign language, I skydived, I backpacked across Europe to more than 15 countries, I spent a lot of time with my family and friends, I attended professional sports games, I watched a lot of TV shows and read a lot of novels, and you bet I partied like I've never been before. In summary, I lived, I pursued my interests, I grew as a person, I experienced things I've never experienced, and I widened my perspective. Why did I do all this? Because I know once medical school starts, I'll never have time to do many of these things again.

Like what Narmerguy says, I encourage everyone to take gap years. We live in such a beautiful world, so enjoy it while you can! There is so much more about life than just working in a lab, or getting publications or improving your applications. Yes, they are extremely important, but don't forget to live a life too!

In fact, I want to say from my personal experiences/observations, top medical schools really admire students who have not only challenged themselves academically and non-academically, but also someone who possess a very positive and "live life to the fullest" attitude. Out of the 11 interviews I've attended, I have almost never been asked about my three years of research or anything academically related. Besides the generic "why medicine" or "why this school", the rest were all about my background, my interests, my ECs, and my plans for my gap year. I can say quite confidently that all my interviewers left very interested and impressed.

So take gap years folks! I wish I can take more!

 

[Greenberg702]

Harvard:

Make-up of the incoming class:
Members of the Fall 2013 HMS entering class::

• from 72 undergraduate institutions, 32 states and 8 foreign countries
• 80% of whom majored in the sciences
• 54% are women, 46% are men
• 18% are from groups that are traditionally underrepresented in medicine
• the class ranges in age from 21-32
  • average GPA: 3.8
  • average MCAT scores were:
  • Verbal-11.2
    Physical Science-12.55
    Biological Science-12.61

Northwestern: http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/admissions/process/class-profile.html (more details at link)

Class of 2017:

• 7000+ applicants
• 91 Men, 63 Women
• 71 different undergaduate majors
• 32 different languages spoken - most common are Chinese, Spanish, French
• 22 (14.2%) Non-traditional students (defined as 2+ years off before medical school)
• Age range: 21-31
• 75 undergraduate universities
• 33 states, 10 foreign countries
• Average stats: cGPA = 3.82, sGPA = 3.79, MCAT = 35.3
• 

Definitely a smaller % of non-trads. I wonder if other schools define it as 1 year + when reporting their percentage.

 

[ridethecliche]

Hopefully this encourages more people to take some time off. I think most people will actually benefit from it independent from all this medical stuff. It's just good for your development as a person imo.

While this is good, this is also ridiculous.

Lets think about this from an applicants point of view. You're essentially going to push back your life for another 2+ years, for what? So you can be in your mid 30's coming out of fellowship? That's ridiculous!

Students should be encouraged to grow up during high school and college and not only after.

I'm highly suspect of this kind of thing, because it honestly provides a cheap workforce for basic science labs, clinical researchers, etc. In my mind, it's akin to forcing people to go through the revolving 'internship' door.

Show me the data that says these students have better board scores, better success in residency, etc. Students should be judged on how much they've done given where they are, this idea that kids aren't mature enough when they get out of undergrad is part of the so called 'adult-child' syndrome plaguing society. I think that the first part of this is accurate, but whatever.

What is the justification for more non-trads i.e. new trads? It's just a good way to put people in the hole, both financially and socially, for longer.

And all this coming from someone that's been out of school 4 years and is applying now.

(Obviously the above doesn't apply to career changers and those that followed things like athletics etc. after school, but from what I've seen with other things these trends will eventually catch up to other schools. Just you wait.)

 

[Greenberg702]

I cannot agree with this more. I think nowadays, everyone is so focused on improving their application and get carried away that they forget to "live" a life. Gap years not only give you more time to boost your application, but most importantly, it can help you grow a lot as a person. I don't know if everyone would agree with this but I am a very strong advocate of living your life to the fullest. You only get to live once, so why not try to make the most of it?

I've taken one gap year and I am starting school at a top 20 in a few weeks. But damn I wish I can take another year off because there's so much more I want to do!!! Yes, I continued to work in a lab and improved my application, but what else did I do? I pursued many of my other dreams and interests. I became a licensed bartender, I started to learn another foreign language, I skydived, I backpacked across Europe to more than 15 countries, I spent a lot of time with my family and friends, I attended professional sports games, I watched a lot of TV shows and read a lot of novels, and you bet I partied like I've never been before. In summary, I lived, I pursued my interests, I grew as a person, I experienced things I've never experienced, and I widened my perspective. Why did I do all this? Because I know once medical school starts, I'll never have time to do many of these things again.

Like what Narmerguy says, I encourage everyone to take gap years. We live in such a beautiful world, so enjoy it while you can! There is so much more about life than just working in a lab, or getting publications or improving your applications. Yes, they are extremely important, but don't forget to live a life too!

In fact, I want to say from my personal experiences/observations, top medical schools really admire students who have not only challenged themselves academically and non-academically, but also someone who possess a very positive and "live life to the fullest" attitude. Out of the 11 interviews I've attended, I have almost never been asked about my three years of research or anything academically related. Besides the generic "why medicine" or "why this school", the rest were all about my background, my interests, my ECs, and my plans for my gap year. I can say quite confidently that all my interviewers left very interested and impressed.

So take gap years folks! I wish I can take more!

If that's something you wanted to do and you think that it helped you then that's fantastic. My biggest pet peeve though is when advisers/administrators/other pre-med students are really pushy about me taking one as well and implying that I'll somehow be a much worse person/doctor if I don't. It's as if I haven't been "living life" before graduating college and that somehow the only time to ever get to do what you want is now. "How do you know you're really into medicine and not other things they ask. You should take time off and explore other things before committing to medicine." If YOU are indecisive about your future career and need time for exploration/soul searching/whatever then by all means take it but don't tell ME that I don't know what I want when I'm absolutely certain that medicine is for me and I want to get into it ASAP. I've had this happen to me quite a few times during undergrad.

 

[Greenberg702]

While this is good, this is also ridiculous.

Lets think about this from an applicants point of view. You're essentially going to push back your life for another 2+ years, for what? So you can be in your mid 30's coming out of fellowship? That's ridiculous!

Students should be encouraged to grow up during high school and college and not only after.

I'm highly suspect of this kind of thing, because it honestly provides a cheap workforce for basic science labs, clinical researchers, etc. In my mind, it's akin to forcing people to go through the revolving 'internship' door.

Show me the data that says these students have better board scores, better success in residency, etc. Students should be judged on how much they've done given where they are, this idea that kids aren't mature enough when they get out of undergrad is part of the so called 'adult-child' syndrome plaguing society. I think that the first part of this is accurate, but whatever.

What is the justification for more non-trads i.e. new trads? It's just a good way to put people in the hole, both financially and socially, for longer.

And all this coming from someone that's been out of school 4 years and is applying now.

(Obviously the above doesn't apply to career changers and those that followed things like athletics etc. after school, but from what I've seen with other things these trends will eventually catch up to other schools. Just you wait.)

You don't think everyone has the desire and/or resources to "backpack across Europe to more than 15 countries" and bartend while watching a lot of TV shows and partying?

 

[Lawpy]

Non-traditional applicants have become the traditional applicants.

EDIT: I'll put this over here as well to stay on the first page

For UPenn 2013 entering class:

Class Size:

• 168 Matriculants
• 46% Female
• 54% Male

Demographics:

• 19% PA Residents
• 81% Out-of-State Residents
• 45% Black, Hispanic, Asian, or Native Americans
• 60% Non-traditional students
• 14% Combined Degree (MD/PhD)

Average Age:

• Average Age is ~23 (20-32)

Academics:
Median MCAT:

• • VR 11
  • PS 13
  • BS 13
• Median GPA 3.86
• 71% Science Majors
• 29% Non-Science Majors

Harvard:

Make-up of the incoming class:
Members of the Fall 2013 HMS entering class::

• from 72 undergraduate institutions, 32 states and 8 foreign countries
• 80% of whom majored in the sciences
• 54% are women, 46% are men
• 18% are from groups that are traditionally underrepresented in medicine
• the class ranges in age from 21-32
  • average GPA: 3.8
  • average MCAT scores were:
  • Verbal-11.2
    Physical Science-12.55
    Biological Science-12.61

Northwestern: http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/admissions/process/class-profile.html (more details at link)

Class of 2017:

• 7000+ applicants
• 91 Men, 63 Women
• 71 different undergaduate majors
• 32 different languages spoken - most common are Chinese, Spanish, French
• 22 (14.2%) Non-traditional students (defined as 2+ years off before medical school)
• Age range: 21-31
• 75 undergraduate universities
• 33 states, 10 foreign countries
• Average stats: cGPA = 3.82, sGPA = 3.79, MCAT = 35.3
• 

So the issue here is the definition of "non-traditional". Apparently, Northwestern definition --> 14.2% which is a lot less compared to those touted by HMS, Penn and Yale. Does that mean their definition of "non-traditional" include anyone who took a gap year?

Personally, non-traditional means something more than just 2 years off, but Northwestern definition is pretty much the most accurate IMO.

 

[DermViser]

So 60% of incoming students are wasting more time with gap years. I think this hurts the medical profession. It isn't like these people are out there making tons of money to pay for medical school. They have less time to work after school and residency and more debt. Medicine is becoming much worse in terms of a financial decision. I don't think I'd go for it now without someone else willing to foot the bill.

Gap years are the hottest thing. Like adopting a child from Malawi.

 

[Lamel]

I suspect most "non-traditionals" in these stats to be students who apply at the end of senior year, meaning they have a gap year but have already applied. Which is likely much more common than 2+ years off.

 

[ridethecliche]

I suspect most "non-traditionals" in these stats to be students who apply at the end of senior year, meaning they have a gap year but have already applied. Which is likely much more common than 2+ years off.

Pretty sure LizzyM said it was 2+ years for Yale. Not sure about the others.

Defining someone taking a single gap year as a non-trad is kind of meh.

 

[ridethecliche]

You don't think everyone has the desire and/or resources to "backpack across Europe to more than 15 countries" and bartend while watching a lot of TV shows and partying?

Not sure where you got that from what I wrote, so... good for you?

 

[LizzyM]

So we look at 60% (undefined) non-trads at Penn and 14% at NU defined as 2 years or more out of college. Assuming the two classes to be roughly the same, that would suggest that about three-quarters of "non-trads" have taken 1 year off and 25% of the non-trads have taken 2 yrs or more off (this smaller pool would include Teach for America, Peace Corps and career changers).

 

[Lamel]

Pretty sure LizzyM said it was 2+ years for Yale. Not sure about the others.

Defining someone taking a single gap year as a non-trad is kind of meh.

She did? I mean if it is 2+ years off as the common definition, these numbers are even higher than I thought!

 

[cupcakesandcadavers]

at the risk of sounding silly,
what constitutes as non-traditional?

 

[LizzyM]

Pretty sure LizzyM said it was 2+ years for Yale. Not sure about the others.

Defining someone taking a single gap year as a non-trad is kind of meh.

I never said that and it isn't in the #1 post in this thread. I don't know what definition is used at Yale.

 

[LizzyM]

at the risk of sounding silly,
what constitutes as non-traditional?

It appears to be as little as one year off according to some med schools and 2+ years after college at one school (NU).

 

[Greenberg702]

Not sure where you got that from what I wrote, so... good for you?

That's what premed2000 wrote when explaining why everyone should take a gap year. I tried to compliment your post while demonstrating the ridiculousness of what he/she? wrote.

 

[cupcakesandcadavers]

It appears to be as little as one year off according to some med schools and 2+ years after college at one school (NU).

ohhhh so traditional is going straight in after undergrad
got it!

 

[Lamel]

Hopkins (Notice how the age RANGE is 23-34! I'll have to assume this takes out outliers (based on their GPA and MCAT ranges), so that means that traditional ages are "outliers"): http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admissions/md/students/class_statistics.html

UCSF:

Profile of entering class of 2013

• Average age: 25 (ranging from 21 to 43)
• 56 percent women
• 26 percent underrepresented in medicine
• 80 percent California residents

Admission statistics for 2013

• 7,308 AMCAS applications received
• 500 applicants interviewed
• 149 students enrolled

Average first-year students entering in 2013

• Overall grade-point average of 3.78
• Science grade-point average of 3.79
• MCAT scores of 11 on Verbal Reasoning, 12 on Physical Sciences, and 12 on Biological Sciences

 

[Greenberg702]

So we look at 60% (undefined) non-trads at Penn and 14% at NU defined as 2 years or more out of college. Assuming the two classes to be roughly the same, that would suggest that about three-quarters of "non-trads" have taken 1 year off and 25% of the non-trads have taken 2 yrs or more off (this smaller pool would include Teach for America, Peace Corps and career changers).

That's a very reasonable assessment/conclusion. However, this makes the whole non-trad phenomenon much less significant since a good majority are not in established, long(er)-term programs or career changers. I would speculate that a large proportion of the people taking only one year off are doing what I and the gap-year poster who got into a top 20 described: namely backpacking across Europe, watching TV shows, and partying. Some are probably compensating for a hole in their app. Overall though, this isn't that much of a threat to traditional applicants.

 

[Narmerguy]

While this is good, this is also ridiculous.

Lets think about this from an applicants point of view. You're essentially going to push back your life for another 2+ years, for what? So you can be in your mid 30's coming out of fellowship? That's ridiculous!

Students should be encouraged to grow up during high school and college and not only after.

I'm highly suspect of this kind of thing, because it honestly provides a cheap workforce for basic science labs, clinical researchers, etc. In my mind, it's akin to forcing people to go through the revolving 'internship' door.

Show me the data that says these students have better board scores, better success in residency, etc. Students should be judged on how much they've done given where they are, this idea that kids aren't mature enough when they get out of undergrad is part of the so called 'adult-child' syndrome plaguing society. I think that the first part of this is accurate, but whatever.

What is the justification for more non-trads i.e. new trads? It's just a good way to put people in the hole, both financially and socially, for longer.

And all this coming from someone that's been out of school 4 years and is applying now.

(Obviously the above doesn't apply to career changers and those that followed things like athletics etc. after school, but from what I've seen with other things these trends will eventually catch up to other schools. Just you wait.)

This is the #1 confusion that I notice from people who are against gap years (which is a weird position in the first place, but I'll get to that). Your life does not "begin" when you start medical school, or when you finish your medical training. Let's call this what it is, you're choosing to pursue other opportunities before you pursue medical school.

What people do on their gap years is up to them. Some of them get graduate degrees, some of them work, some of them travel, some of them do some combination of these, that's up to the person. No one can tell me that I didn't benefit from my 2 years after graduation or, crazier still, that I'm somehow worse off because of it. It's not for you to judge what a person considers a worthwhile use of their time. Similarly, it's not for us to judge people who have chosen not to take any time off. That's their prerogative. However, at the end of the day, medical schools choose who they do and do not want to be a part of their class. It seems that many of them appreciate what students who have taken time off bring to the table. Evidently they've done well enough that schools continue to accept these students that benefit from certain qualities that they value. Maybe that's maturity, maybe that's experience, maybe that's knowledge and practical skills--I'm sure it varies.

It's up to the applicant to decide if they want to go straight to medical school before graduating, or if they want to take time to explore other things. My point is that I hope more people will take these statistics as permission or even encouragement to take their time and develop a bit before committing to a 7-11 year training process which can beat them down and grind them up. I found it to be one of the best decisions I've ever made. No one is forcing students to do this, in fact, most of the pressures are to do the exact opposite. Even though my parents were asking me why I wasn't going straight through or my friends were already delightedly getting geared up to become future doctors while I would just be "falling behind", and I was full of worry and doubt myself, I stuck with it. Hell of a good decision, I hope more people get a chance to enjoy this.

 

[Lamel]

I'm having too much fun with this so I will continue spamming stats.

Boston University (Very helpful link): http://www.bumc.bu.edu/admissions/welcome/classprofile/

I'll just post one particular image:

Tufts : http://medicine.tufts.edu/Education/MD-Programs/Doctor-of-Medicine/Class-Profile

(More details at link)

Geographic Representation
MA: 50
Other New England: 39
NY: 27
NJ: 21
Total Northeast Region: 137
CA: 21
Other: 46

Racial/Ethnic Diversity
Under-represented in Medicine (URM): 17
Black or African American: 8
Hispanic: 5
Native American or Alaskan Native: 2
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 2
White: 118
Asian: 46
Other (Self-Reported): 3
Not Reported: 23
Gender
Male: 94
Female: 110

 

[LizzyM]

I'm having too much fun with this so I will continue spamming stats.

Boston University (Very helpful link): http://www.bumc.bu.edu/admissions/welcome/classprofile/

I'll just post one particular image:

Tufts: http://medicine.tufts.edu/Education/MD-Programs/Doctor-of-Medicine/Class-Profile

Geographic RepresentationMA: 50
Other New England: 39
NY: 27
NJ: 21
Total Northeast Region: 137
CA: 21
Other: 46

Racial/Ethnic Diversity
Under-represented in Medicine (URM): 17
Black or African American: 8
Hispanic: 5
Native American or Alaskan Native: 2
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 2
White: 118
Asian: 46
Other (Self-Reported): 3
Not Reported: 23
Gender
Male: 94
Female: 110

Thanks! I am such a stats geek; I just love having you as my able assistant!

 

[premed2000]

That's what premed2000 wrote when explaining why everyone should take a gap year. I tried to compliment your post while demonstrating the ridiculousness of what he/she? wrote.

Lol. Chill dood. I don't know why you are seemingly attacking my post. All I'm saying is that's how I spent my gap year and that I would encourage students to take gap years to pursue their own individual interests. Because the chances are, you are not going to have those time to pursue them once you start medical school. And it just happened that backpacking, traveling, learning to bartend and partying, and all those things I mentioned ARE my interests. They made my life more colorful, they are things I find worthwhile, and they are things that has expanded my perspective. If I had started medical schools last year, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to accomplish those goals.

I am already going to spend the rest of my life in hospitals and in labs doing something I love. So to me, it was worth taking a year off to take a breather, and to do things that I wouldn't have been able to do. And you bet I've wanted to become a doctor and go to medical school since as long as I can remember, and I've worked very hard to earn it. But I also have other goals in life that I want to accomplish. Everyone has their interests and goals, and it is up to them how they want to reach their goals.

If you are dead set on med school and finishing it ASAP, then by all means do it. I am not against it. And I've had my fair share of experience with pre-med advisors like the ones you've mentioned. All I'm saying is if you have other goals in life you want to accomplish/do before starting med school, take gap years.

So if you don't agree with my opinion, we can agree to disagree. Don't go on saying how ridiculous what I did was or the reasons behind why I encourage people to take years off. Because you are going to be surprised at how many med students took years off simply to pursue their personal interests, and not because they are "unsure" about their career path.

EDIT: just read Narmerguy's new post and I cannot have put it better.

 

[Greenberg702]

Admirable. Allow me to throw a couple of your sentences back at you.

It's not for you to judge what a person considers a worthwhile use of their time

No one can tell me that I didn't benefit from my [not] 2 years after graduation or, crazier still, that I'm somehow worse off because of it

Now,

This is the #1 confusion that I notice from people who are against gap years (which is a weird position in the first place, but I'll get to that). Your life does not "begin" when you start medical school, or when you finish your medical training.

That's exactly the point. Your life also doesn't begin when you take your gap year. Your life begins when you're born. I've always had hobbies, enjoyed what I've done, and pursued a variety of interesting activities. I studied abroad for a semester (even did some "backpacking" in Europe like the other poster). I partied in college and watched TV shows during my free time. I pursued a big 3 consulting gig in NYC over one summer. To somehow block off this chunk of your life called college and to insinuate that you couldn't have possibly lived or enjoyed your hobbies or pursued your interests during this time is ridiculous.

However, at the end of the day, medical schools choose who they do and do not want to be a part of their class. It seems that many of them appreciate what students who have taken time off bring to the table. Evidently they've done well enough that schools continue to accept these students that benefit from certain qualities that they value. Maybe that's maturity, maybe that's experience, maybe that's knowledge and practical skills--I'm sure it varies.

That's true. When I was at Wash U they told us that the acceptance rates between trads and non-trads were virtually identical (a very slight advantage for trads but this could be because some non-trads have a hole that they need to plug in their app.)
I'm not telling anyone to not take time off, I'm just saying to back off of us who didn't.

No one is forcing students to do this, in fact, most of the pressures are to do the exact opposite.

In my experience, the opposite is true. I was constantly pushed to "explore myself" or to take some time off in the "real world" (as if I hadn't already). I know myself better than anyone else on the planet and if I'm absolutely positive that medicine is the career for me, I don't want anyone to keep putting roadblocks in my path. This is just an example of the "adult-child" phenomenon described by the other poster. People always think they know you better than you know yourself. Ridiculous.

 

[LizzyM]

One thing I'm finding remarkable is the number of incoming classes where women outnumber men. Discuss.

 

[Greenberg702]

Lol. Chill dood. I don't know why you are seemingly attacking my post. All I'm saying is that's how I spent my gap year and that I would encourage students to take gap years to pursue their own individual interests. Because the chances are, you are not going to have those time to pursue them once you start medical school. And it just happened that backpacking, traveling, learning to bartend and partying, and all those things I mentioned ARE my interests. They made my life more colorful, they are things I find worthwhile, and they are things that has expanded my perspective. If I had started medical schools last year, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to accomplish those goals.

I am already going to spend the rest of my life in hospitals and in labs doing something I love. So to me, it was worth taking a year off to take a breather, and to do things that I wouldn't have been able to do. And you bet I've wanted to become a doctor and go to medical school since as long as I can remember, and I've worked very hard to earn it. But I also have other goals in life that I want to accomplish. Everyone has their interests and goals, and it is up to them how they want to reach their goals.

If you are dead set on med school and finishing it ASAP, then by all means do it. I am not against it. And I've had my fair share of experience with pre-med advisors like the ones you've mentioned. All I'm saying is if you have other goals in life you want to accomplish/do before starting med school, take gap years.

So if you don't agree with my opinion, we can agree to disagree. Don't go on saying how ridiculous what I did was or the reasons behind why I encourage people to take years off. Because you are going to be surprised at how many med students took years off simply to pursue their personal interests, and not because they are "unsure" about their career path.

EDIT: just read Narmerguy's new post and I cannot have put it better.

Fair enough brah. No beef.

 

[Greenberg702]

One thing I'm finding remarkable is the number of incoming classes where women outnumber men. Discuss.

I think it's just part of a larger phenomenon in which women are attaining higher academic achievement than men. I recently read an article that described how women had better GPAs in HS and college and how more women are graduating with college degrees. The underlying forces that are creating this are also pushing the same trend in medicine.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, medical specialties are themselves segregated. Women outnumber men in OB and peds while men outnumber women in Neurosurgery and surgical subspecialties. Probably lifestyle-related but nevertheless interesting.

 

[Omppu27]

This makes me think that eventually, and maybe very, very soon, coming straight from college will seem like a hidden disadvantage. Sorta like not having any research. You can obviously get in without any research, but almost everyone has it, so it's almost like you should too...

 

[plumazul]

This is the #1 confusion that I notice from people who are against gap years (which is a weird position in the first place, but I'll get to that).

I agree that it is weird to take a general position against gap years. I also believe it is equally weird to be a gap year evangelist. We all follow our individual paths in life. I would never be so presumptuous to think that what worked for me is what's best for everyone. We are all different, with different needs and wants. I personally am so happy that I never listened to the many voices telling me to "slow down", "enjoy life". I couldn't be happier with the path I choose.

 

[plumazul]

One thing I'm finding remarkable is the number of incoming classes where women outnumber men. Discuss.

I believe that in the aggregate, the percentage of women has been declining over the past few years.

 

[premed2000]

This makes me think that eventually, and maybe very, very soon, coming straight from college will seem like a hidden disadvantage. Sorta like not having any research. You can obviously get in without any research, but almost everyone has it, so it's almost like you should too...

I actually think this is the reason there's a growing number of non-trads. Because more and more people are taking time to build their applications. If you take someone who's fresh out of college with the same GPA and MCAT as another applicant who is two years out but with much more experience, the non-trad will win everyone.

My cousins who are now practicing physicians who graduated from Vandy and Stanford respectively 10+ years ago, all commented on how ridiculous this process has become. Back then, as long as you are a good student with good grades, good MCAT, some research and some other ECs, then you are pretty much set to get into a good med school. Today, just look at how difficult it is to get into med school and what it takes.

So with more and more people taking years off just to build their application, it will only force more and more people to do so. Hence, I suspect non-trads will only increase year after year.

 

[Greenberg702]

This makes me think that eventually, and maybe very, very soon, coming straight from college will seem like a hidden disadvantage. Sorta like not having any research. You can obviously get in without any research, but almost everyone has it, so it's almost like you should too...

Possibly. For example, top MBA programs will never take someone straight out of college without work experience. The training path in business is also way, way shorter though. I count my lucky stars every day that I was able to slip by without this being the case.