"Do not go into medicine"

[gyngyn]

You're also in academia.

Yes, with the commensurately low salary that everyone is complaining about! But most of my colleagues are not.

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[DermViser]

Yes, with the commensurately low salary that everyone is complaining about! But most of my colleagues are not.

And excellent non-salary benefits.

 

[gyngyn]

And excellent non-salary benefits.

Just the 401K (and of course, all the daily love from my students, residents, and patients!).

 

[heartsink]

One article I read stated majority of doctors do not recommend family members to go into it. .

I'm very cautious when I hear a result like this because the interpretation can be varied. I'd be willing to bet there were doctors who considered this question, thought about their families (brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews etc) and thought "They lack the drive, they lack the interest, its too much work for someone not built for it or passionate about it", which is a far cry from the train of thought of "This job makes me unhappy, i don't want my family to be as unhappy as me".

 

[Plecopotamus]

I actually had a different experience. All the CA physicians I encountered always ask me, "are you SURE?" However, most of the primary care physicians I work with who are active in the community say they love what they do more so than surgeons/anesthesiologists I have talked to. I've worked with younger surgeons/surgical fellows who say over and over they would never do medicine again, and I shouldn't do medicine. I don't even have to ask them about their opinions... they just dive right into it when they hear that I want to go into medicine. Kinda alarming.

My parents are physicians in CA and both are happy.
I am happy to be on this path, although I'll be up front about the fact I haven't had my MD long enough to give fully informed advice.

I take anything said by young physicians with a huge grain of salt. I'm in residency, but most people my age have been attendings for a few years, because I worked in a different field for several years before deciding to go to med school. Point blank, all jobs have aspects that suck. If you've never worked in another field, it's really difficult to have relative perspective as to whether the bad aspects of your job are actually as bad as or worse than those of another person's job. So, if a young physician is saying not to do medicine, what are they basing it on? Do they think it's a better idea to go flip burgers? To go be a school teacher? To work in finance? I have never been happier than I have been since starting residency -- the hours are long, but I'm doing something I love. I sat in a cubicle previously with no educational debt, making 3 times the salary I am today, but my job did nothing for my soul. Does my current job as a resident have issues? Sure. I could sit here and whine at you about how many hours I've been working, how broken the hospital systems are, etc. And many of my peers do just that. But many of them don't have one iota of experience doing something else to make them realize how good they have it (if they're someone who truly loves practicing medicine), and too many of them where I am (I'm at a residency with a top notch program in my field and other specialties but malignant and low ranked programs for things like G surg and IM) come across as people who never really wanted to practice medicine in the first place, but simply aimed to be a doctor for other reasons.

 

[Nadim012]

Okay OP. I switched my major from Biology into a Art Major and won't be going into the medical field anymore.





















































Just kidding.

 

[Rustie]

Wow, so much fail in this post it's not even funny. @Law2Doc and @NickNaylor covered the jist of it. I will say this: Do NOT go into the profession of medicine for the reason of job security. You will abhor it.

I'm not saying that you should go into medicine for job security. I specifically said to ignore the "interest" aspect of it so that way we can purely compare the statistics of each job.

I thought that I prefaced my post well enough. Apparently not.

 

[Sunna12]

**** every doctor who has said that to you. medicine is the best thing in the world, and those who disagree are a bunch of blow hards.

there are a lot of miserable physicians simply because they were brought up in the days of $1000 stitches and free haircuts. reimbursements have changed and patients think they know more than you because Dr. Oz told them pumpkin seeds will melt away their fat flaps. tough ****.

times have changed but the reasons to love medicine have not. we can still drill holes in heads, watch brains pulse, and remove tumors. we can still tell families we caught their father's cancer in time before it spread. we are still the first to welcome human beings into the world and watch mothers and fathers rejoice. we are still the first ones who are called when all hell breaks lose and bullets need extraction, legs need amputation, and and lungs need inflation.

if you know you love medicine, rid your life of these physicians and their toxic attitudes. maintain a healthy dose of naivety. medicine is awesome, and i would be absolutely miserable without it.

^^My new favorite quote!^^

 

[prdv]

My parents are physicians in CA and both are happy.
I am happy to be on this path, although I'll be up front about the fact I haven't had my MD to give fully informed advice.

I take anything said by young physicians with a huge grain of salt. I'm in residency, but most people my age have been attendings for a few years, because I worked in a different field for several years before deciding to go to med school. Point blank, all jobs have aspects that suck. If you've never worked in another field, it's really difficult to have relative perspective as to whether the bad aspects of your job are actually as bad as or worse than those of another person's job. So, if a young physician is saying not to do medicine, what are they basing it on? Do they think it's a better idea to go flip burgers? To go be a school teacher? To work in finance? I have never been happier than I have been since starting residency -- the hours are long, but I'm doing something I love. I sat in a cubicle previously with no educational debt, making 3 times the salary I am today, but my job did nothing for my soul. Does my current job as a resident have issues? Sure. I could sit here and whine at you about how many hours I've been working, how broken the hospital systems are, etc. And many of my peers do just that. But many of them don't have one iota of experience doing something else to make them realize how good they have it (if they're someone who truly loves practicing medicine), and too many of them where I am (I'm at a residency with a top notch program in my field and other specialties but malignant and low ranked programs for things like G surg and IM) come across as people who never really wanted to practice medicine in the first place, but simply aimed to be a doctor for other reasons.

Thank you for your refreshing insight. I have to agree. I found it interesting that I am working in finance right now, applying to medical school this cycle. I also make more annually than the residents I work with, but I don't feel much fulfillment from the job. It's interesting and I work with a great team of people, but I know I'm not doing something I love. You are so lucky for the opportunity.

 

[toutou]

I'm not a med student, but I am a nurse who's pursing medicine. I've been working as a nurse for the past four years and has work a long side many physicians and surgeons. Many of them told me not to pursue this path because of how demanding the job entails and in the end, it's still a job. Pursing medicine means that I will give up my work schedule of working two days per week with five days off to working close to 80 or more hrs a week making significantly less than what I make now, taking close to 200K of debt, and spending seven years of residency and fellowship to practice the specialty I want if I continue to follow the same path. Does this scare the **** out of me? Hell, yes. I wake up at night thinking, what am I doing? Why am I busting so hard trying to learn these bloody reactions and preparing for the MCAT? What am I gonna do about my house, my boyfriend, my dog, my parents? Then I remind myself of the feeling I get every time I work along doctors and get to interact with the patients and having that depth of knowledge to be able to dictate and coordinate the type of care they will receive.

What I'm trying to say is, I didn't have an epiphany at the age of five craving to become a surgeon. It was my experience that led me to medicine. And I think the reason that most of these doctors you've spoke to feel bitter about medicine is probably because they've never experienced any other type of occupation before they became a doctor. Most of them were probably traditional students.

My suggestion is, get as much experience as you can. Talk to other people in other part of the health care team and see how they feel. Wanting to "Helping people" is a pre-req. But you don't have to be a doctor to directly help someone.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Wow! so much negativity here.... My mentor who is a psychiatrist loves his job.. I guess making 300k/year and working only 50 hours/wk might shape his view. However, he told me stay away from IM/FM/OBGYN/Gen surgery... Is that the consensus in the medical community?

 

[James401]

Yes, and when did you graduate from med school? Your debt is nothing like for those entering now. There are much easier pathways with a better ROI esp. if one is intent on practicing IM, FM, or Peds.

Honestly, do you hate your job? It always seems like you are the one agreeing with the people who are doubting medicine or complaining about it. You really are just like the doctors in op's original post. For someone who worked very hard to get into the field your in, its just surprising. I am not trying to be disrespectful, i just really want to know So why so much negativity about medicine?

 

[DermViser]

Honestly, do you hate your job? It always seems like you are the one agreeing with the people who are doubting medicine or complaining about it. You really are just like the doctors in op's original post. For someone who worked very hard to get into the field your in, its just surprising. I am not trying to be disrespectful, i just really want to know So why so much negativity about medicine?

No, I don't "hate my job". I'm not a premed who believes medicine is the right answer no matter what the cost, no matter what the specialty and the federal govt. feels the same way I do, based on who they are promoting with respect to doing more primary care. Sorry that doesn't mesh with your bubble.

 

[anbuitachi]

Again remember the experience of older doctors may be vastly different compared to younger. Such as tuition rates, Lvl of competition, respect, and salary. What you hear may be different when you ask a 55 yr old who's had less loans and higher starting salary

 

[nOchemallday]

Not sure why you quoted me because none of that applies to what I said. I was simply refuting what that guy said - most of which was factually incorrect.

Sure you refuted his specific examples (poor specific examples i might add), but you did so in a way as to imply that the job security of physicians should not be considered because there are a plethora of alternative jobs with comparable stability. Or perhaps that's merely what I inferred from it.

 

[James401]

No, I don't "hate my job". I'm not a premed who believes medicine is the right answer no matter what the cost, no matter what the specialty and the federal govt. feels the same way I do, based on who they are promoting with respect to doing more primary care. Sorry that doesn't mesh with your bubble.

Mesh with my bubble?..... okay. So your saying you where never the pre med who felt you were going in head first and medicine was the only way? If not then its very surprising . I understand being realistic about debt, time commitment, etc.. is smart, and their are a lot of pre meds on here who do not think bout those things. Everybody complains about their job and probably has some good reasons to. But do you really think everyone should back out before its "too late"?

 

[DermViser]

Mesh with my bubble?..... okay. So your saying you where never the pre med who felt you were going in head first and medicine was the only way? If not then its very surprising . I understand being realistic about debt, time commitment, etc.. is smart, and their are a lot of pre meds on here who do not think bout those things. Everybody complains about their job and probably has some good reasons to. But do you really think everyone should back out before its "too late"?

I never fully explored other options (i.e. PA/NP) and I was lucky. Stop putting words in my mouth. My point is that your expectations need to comport with reality. This will become even more important due to the number of residency spots being less than the number of U.S. applicants.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Wow! so much negativity here.... My mentor who is a psychiatrist loves his job.. I guess making 300k/year and working only 50 hours/wk might shape his view. However, he told me stay away from IM/FM/OBGYN/Gen surgery... Is that the consensus in the medical community?

I've also heard the "stay away from gen surgery and ob gyn" advice. But it pertained mostly to work hours. To clarify, it was more like "I love what I do, but I don't have much free time."

 

[James401]

I never fully explored other options (i.e. PA/NP) and I was lucky. Stop putting words in my mouth. My point is that your expectations need to comport with reality. This will become even more important due to the number of residency spots being less than the number of U.S. applicants.

Are you saying that your lucky because you would have chosen that path instead? Seems to me that most people wouldn't be satisfied enough in those fields. I think i would always want that little bit more out of my career.

 

[Law2Doc]

Sure you refuted his specific examples (poor specific examples i might add), but you did so in a way as to imply that the job security of physicians should not be considered because there are a plethora of alternative jobs with comparable stability. Or perhaps that's merely what I inferred from it.

I don't think we said a plethora of alternative jobs had comparable security so much as suggested/stated that cream rises to the top and that someone competent enough to do medicine will find their way to a Longterm career in multiple possible venues. However in medicine, if you are doing it for ANY reason besides that you love it, you will find it unpalatable. Its too hard, too long, too much death and disease. So no it's absolutely not for everyone. You aren't coming at it from the right perspective if you are focused on those $35k jobs you had or time out of work. It doesn't matter that you've seen te flip side of job security, you haven't lived Th life sentence of an 80 hour a week job you don't enjoy, with working holidays and weekends. So It's not that the grass is always greener, it's that some lawns are really gator filled swamps and quicksand for the unwary so youd better really know what you are getting into on the other side of this fence. If you Dont like it, an all encompassing long houred job is a life sentence. Don't say, good salary, good job security that's plenty, because youll hate every minute --those are the whiners in our field.

 

[fellowstudent92]

^When you say you want a "little bit more out of my career", do you mean a little bit more prestige? Or a little bit more responsibility for your work? Cause the latter sounds...tiring. @James401

 

[csx]

I've also heard the "stay away from gen surgery and ob gyn" advice. But it pertained mostly to work hours. To clarify, it was more like "I love what I do, but I don't have much free time."

Having spoken to several GS's, they all told me it is a dying field because they are losing patients because they'd rather go see a physician whose specialty is particular surgery (understandably so).

 

[Optimus-Prime]

**** every doctor who has said that to you. medicine is the best thing in the world, and those who disagree are a bunch of blow hards.

there are a lot of miserable physicians simply because they were brought up in the days of $1000 stitches and free haircuts. reimbursements have changed and patients think they know more than you because Dr. Oz told them pumpkin seeds will melt away their fat flaps. tough ****.

times have changed but the reasons to love medicine have not. we can still drill holes in heads, watch brains pulse, and remove tumors. we can still tell families we caught their father's cancer in time before it spread. we are still the first to welcome human beings into the world and watch mothers and fathers rejoice. we are still the first ones who are called when all hell breaks lose and bullets need extraction, legs need amputation, and and lungs need inflation.

if you know you love medicine, rid your life of these physicians and their toxic attitudes. maintain a healthy dose of naivety. medicine is awesome, and i would be absolutely miserable without it.

About three weeks ago I was in a trauma resuscitation unit doing suction while the GS residents were stitching a degloved scalp. The same thing came up; theres nothing like medicine.

Let the lazy whine

 

[DermViser]

Are you saying that your lucky because you would have chosen that path instead? Seems to me that most people wouldn't be satisfied enough in those fields. I think i would always want that little bit more out of my career.

I'm lucky bc of my specialty. Even then, one can be a PA/NP and much more easily enter Derm than as a physician. The level of investment both in time and money esp. for PA is fantastic. As a premed, what you view as worth it w/respect to sacrifice will change greatly as you progress thru med school.

 

[DermViser]

About three weeks ago I was in a trauma resuscitation unit doing suction while the GS residents were stitching a degloved scalp. The same thing came up; theres nothing like medicine.

Let the lazy whine

 

[ButImLETired]

As someone else mentioned, people are likely to complain about everything. Teachers have an extremely rewarding job but the administration always sucks, there's not enough funding, and you don't make any money. Lawyers also have a bunch of debt and there's too many and too few jobs. To make a bunch of money in business (and to be successful) you have to make huge personal sacrifices and take big risks. I-bankers- forget it, they work resident hours and they have basically a desk job requiring a lot of Excel (kill me now). To be honest when people ask me if I think they should go into medicine, I mostly advise that they look into the PA/NP route because it's a lot of the joy without the annoyances, and they seem pretty happy and well-balanced.
Honestly, nowadays in order to make enough money to live comfortably, most of your 20's are gone anyway. It's hard to get a good job with a good salary and room to grow straight out of college- those days are largely gone. Even engineering jobs are harder to come by nowadays without a masters. Of course there are easier and shorter routes than medicine (again, PA/NP comes to mind if you want to stay in the healthcare umbrella) but this is a pretty unique job. I'm a resident, I'm pretty tired and chronically sleep-deprived and sometimes think I made a huge mistake, but when i really sit down and think about it I realize I wouldn't have been as happy doing anything else, and had I picked an easier route for the simple reason that it's easier, I would have regretted it forever. On the other hand, if there's a career you like as much as medicine and you don't think you'd regret quitting while you're ahead, by all means, go for it.

 

[DermViser]

As someone else mentioned, people are likely to complain about everything. Teachers have an extremely rewarding job but the administration always sucks, there's not enough funding, and you don't make any money. Lawyers also have a bunch of debt and there's too many and too few jobs. With the exception of the young dot-commers in Silicon Valley, to make a bunch of money in business (and to be successful) you have to make huge personal sacrifices and take big risks. I-bankers- forget it, they work resident hours and they have basically a desk job requiring a lot of Excel (kill me now). To be honest when people ask me if I think they should go into medicine, I mostly advise that they look into the PA/NP route because it's a lot of the joy without the annoyances, and they seem pretty happy and well-balanced.
Honestly, nowadays in order to make enough money to live comfortably, most of your 20's are gone anyway. It's hard to get a good job with a good salary and room to grow straight out of college- those days are largely gone. Even engineering jobs are harder to come by nowadays without a masters. Of course there are easier and shorter routes than medicine (again, PA/NP comes to mind if you want to stay in the healthcare umbrella) but this is a pretty unique job. I'm a resident, I'm pretty tired and chronically sleep-deprived and sometimes think I made a huge mistake, but when i really sit down and think about it I realize I wouldn't have been as happy doing anything else, and had I picked an easier route for the simple reason that it's easier, I would have regretted it forever. On the other hand, if there's a career you like as much as medicine and you don't think you'd regret quitting while you're ahead, by all means, go for it.

I'm sure non-dischargeable six figure debt also had something to do with it as well, I imagine.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Jesus this topic is rehashed every single day. You guys really do live, breathe, eat, dream, [insert human action] medicine.

 

[ButImLETired]

I'm sure non-dischargeable six figure debt also had something to do with it as well, I imagine.

Honestly, not really. I mean, the debt is there, but it's not something that keeps me up at night by any means. I have IBR and can afford to live in an extremely expensive city in relative comfort paying my IBR rate with my resident salary, which is about what I'd be making if I'd gone into any of the other fields I may have been qualified for. Also, had I gone into any of those fields I wouldn't have this debt. Regardless, I think if I were really miserable and absolutely hated medicine and wanted to get out, my family would try to help me bring the debt down. Who knows. Either way, that's not why I'm staying.

 

[DermViser]

Honestly, not really. I mean, the debt is there, but it's not something that keeps me up at night by any means. I have IBR and can afford to live in an extremely expensive city in relative comfort paying my IBR rate with my resident salary, which is about what I'd be making if I'd gone into any of the other fields I may have been qualified for. Also, had I gone into any of those fields I wouldn't have this debt. Regardless, I think if I were really miserable and absolutely hated medicine and wanted to get out, my family would try to help me bring the debt down. Who knows. Either way, that's not why I'm staying.

What I'm saying is u don't really have a choice.

 

[ButImLETired]

Of course I do. There's no gun to my head. I know someone who quit residency as an intern, it's not impossible. As I said, if I really wanted to quit, my family would help me pay the debt down, and thankfully it's not an exorbitant amount so we wouldn't like, lose the house or anything. I majored in something non-medical so I could easily go back and get a masters in my field (while my debt is on hold) and then get a job after that and make about what I'm making now. I have no interest in doing that, but it doesn't mean I don't have the option.

 

[ButImLETired]

Incidentally, I think there are 3 big reasons why medical people in particular are so whiny.

1) medicine has changed enormously in the past decade or so, more so probably than any other field like it. The medicine practiced by our 50yo attendings is extremely different from the medicine we'll practice. They're more likely to be disgruntled because they've lived through the heyday of medical reimbursement when EMR wasn't a thing and people could own their own practice and live a good life. The young ones basically knew not to expect that, so they have a different perspective on things.

2) medicine is a very small world, kept artificially small by multiple bottlenecks (med school admission, residency etc). It benefits us all to keep it this way- look at lawyers and the mess they got into by allowing everyone and their mother to get a JD. Because of this though, we have maintained a level of prestige (though admittedly much less so than what we had 30 years ago) and with that comes arrogance. People on this website frequently act like medicine is a giant marathon from hell where you're being chased by flesh-eating zombies and are running on fire coals. I mean, it's no picnic, but you don't have to be a genius or a masochist to go into it. However, if we tell everyone "oh sure! It's a grand ol time, come one come all!" it makes it sound less impressive. I think many of us feel- subconsciously or consciously- that by saying that it's this horrid nightmare and advising people to run for the hills while they have the chance it makes us look like badasses. The reality is somewhere in the middle. Not everyone should do it, but you're also not committing to a lifetime of regret and despair if you do choose it.

3) because of how long and laborious this job is, and how many pre-requisites there are for med school, a large proportion of people going into medicine never had another career so they don't realize that every job pretty much sucks a little bit. It's easier to malign medicine when you don't know anything else. I spent a couple of years in a medical-ish job that was pleasant, easy, had good hours, and I worked with lovely people, and I was bored out of my eyeballs. I'll take my current exhaustion over that.

 

[DermViser]

Incidentally, I think there are 3 big reasons why medical people in particular are so whiny.

1) medicine has changed enormously in the past decade or so, more so probably than any other field like it. The medicine practiced by our 50yo attendings is extremely different from the medicine we'll practice. They're more likely to be disgruntled because they've lived through the heyday of medical reimbursement when EMR wasn't a thing and people could own their own practice and live a good life. The young ones basically knew not to expect that, so they have a different perspective on things.

2) medicine is a very small world, kept artificially small by multiple bottlenecks (med school admission, residency etc). It benefits us all to keep it this way- look at lawyers and the mess they got into by allowing everyone and their mother to get a JD. Because of this though, we have maintained a level of prestige (though admittedly much less so than what we had 30 years ago) and with that comes arrogance. People on this website frequently act like medicine is a giant marathon from hell where you're being chased by flesh-eating zombies and are running on fire coals. I mean, it's no picnic, but you don't have to be a genius or a masochist to go into it. However, if we tell everyone "oh sure! It's a grand ol time, come one come all!" it makes it sound less impressive. I think many of us feel- subconsciously or consciously- that by saying that it's this horrid nightmare and advising people to run for the hills while they have the chance it makes us look like badasses. The reality is somewhere in the middle. Not everyone should do it, but you're also not committing to a lifetime of regret and despair if you do choose it.

3) because of how long and laborious this job is, and how many pre-requisites there are for med school, a large proportion of people going into medicine never had another career so they don't realize that every job pretty much sucks a little bit. It's easier to malign medicine when you don't know anything else. I spent a couple of years in a medical-ish job that was pleasant, easy, had good hours, and I worked with lovely people, and I was bored out of my eyeballs. I'll take my current exhaustion over that.

Uh, no. Just...no.

 

[The Buff OP]

Oh man, if I had a one hundred-dollar bill for every time I heard that crap, I could pay my medical school tuition in cash.

 

[James401]

^When you say you want a "little bit more out of my career", do you mean a little bit more prestige? Or a little bit more responsibility for your work? Cause the latter sounds...tiring. @James401

I mean more responsibility in a sense. More so just an over all better understanding of healing and building the doctor patient relationship that only can be found with the doctor and patient.

 

[Blizzard18]

I think it's just tough on people to adjust. I'm only in my third day of med school and I already feel like I got hit by an 18wheeler hauling a huge amount of information. And the worst part is, there's no time to study. We are in class 8-4pm or later and then by time you do tomorrow's pre study assignments for the lecture, it's super late. This is crazy.

 

[mcloaf]

About three weeks ago I was in a trauma resuscitation unit doing suction while the GS residents were stitching a degloved scalp. The same thing came up; theres nothing like medicine.

Let the lazy whine

Yeah dude for sure. All the people unhappy in the field of medicine are just lazy. I'm sure your long, grueling days holding the suction have given you much insight.

 

[DermViser]

I mean more responsibility in a sense. More so just an over all better understanding of healing and building the doctor patient relationship that only can be found with the doctor and patient.

This is SDN not a medical school secondary. PAs and NPs can have the same relationship.

 

[DermViser]

About three weeks ago I was in a trauma resuscitation unit doing suction while the GS residents were stitching a degloved scalp. The same thing came up; theres nothing like medicine.

Let the lazy whine

Yeah dude for sure. All the people unhappy in the field of medicine are just lazy. I'm sure your long, grueling days holding the suction have given you much insight.

 

[fellowstudent92]

^fkin hilarious

 

[csx]

Incidentally, I think there are 3 big reasons why medical people in particular are so whiny.

1) medicine has changed enormously in the past decade or so, more so probably than any other field like it. The medicine practiced by our 50yo attendings is extremely different from the medicine we'll practice. They're more likely to be disgruntled because they've lived through the heyday of medical reimbursement when EMR wasn't a thing and people could own their own practice and live a good life. The young ones basically knew not to expect that, so they have a different perspective on things.

2) medicine is a very small world, kept artificially small by multiple bottlenecks (med school admission, residency etc). It benefits us all to keep it this way- look at lawyers and the mess they got into by allowing everyone and their mother to get a JD. Because of this though, we have maintained a level of prestige (though admittedly much less so than what we had 30 years ago) and with that comes arrogance. People on this website frequently act like medicine is a giant marathon from hell where you're being chased by flesh-eating zombies and are running on fire coals. I mean, it's no picnic, but you don't have to be a genius or a masochist to go into it. However, if we tell everyone "oh sure! It's a grand ol time, come one come all!" it makes it sound less impressive. I think many of us feel- subconsciously or consciously- that by saying that it's this horrid nightmare and advising people to run for the hills while they have the chance it makes us look like badasses. The reality is somewhere in the middle. Not everyone should do it, but you're also not committing to a lifetime of regret and despair if you do choose it.

3) because of how long and laborious this job is, and how many pre-requisites there are for med school, a large proportion of people going into medicine never had another career so they don't realize that every job pretty much sucks a little bit. It's easier to malign medicine when you don't know anything else. I spent a couple of years in a medical-ish job that was pleasant, easy, had good hours, and I worked with lovely people, and I was bored out of my eyeballs. I'll take my current exhaustion over that.

Does every job require you to miss out on on things in college (ie: sacrificing a lot of their social life), having to take a hard(er) major, massive debt leaving college and medschool, long work weeks in residency/fellowship, being away from loved ones, long work hours, it being such a high risk occupation, the depression/anxiety, watching your friends enjoy their 20's doing fun stuff/starting families while yo're hitting the books, etc.

What you said is an extreme under-exaggeration. Not to mention, I'd argue the majority of students have had a job in HS and or in college. I've had 4 jobs since HS; They all sucked to some extent (poor pay, bad boss, etc aka REGULAR things) but none required this level of sacrifice. Like I said, the physicians I spoke to like their job, but they wouldn't recommend anyone to go into the field. Its difficult to ignore this when they were once like you and i.

 

[MrChance2]

I've never seen data on this but I would be really surprised if doctors views of their jobs were significantly worse than how other professions viewed theirs. It just doesn't seem to be a common conversation topic for people to come home from work and say how much their love their jobs. I think doctors actually say that more than most professions.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

1) medicine has changed enormously in the past decade or so, more so probably than any other field like it. The medicine practiced by our 50yo attendings is extremely different from the medicine we'll practice. They're more likely to be disgruntled because they've lived through the heyday of medical reimbursement when EMR wasn't a thing and people could own their own practice and live a good life. The young ones basically knew not to expect that, so they have a different perspective on things.

Thanks for some excellent posts in this thread. My only comment is about this. I think this is somewhat specialty and academic vs private dependent. I've noticed in this thread that attendings in our 50's are said to be either very happy with our career because we are rich and have no debt or very unhappy because we are sick of all the loss of autonomy, own practice, etc. It's hard for me to know which one to be to meet expectations.

The attendings in their 50's and 60's that I know, and it's a fairly large n, are perhaps a bit more nuanced in how they see things. As an academic attending, the way in which I'm paid (annual salary) and who is my boss (a department chair) is the same as when I started. EMR is a mixed pro and con that is off-topic here, but isn't entirely a negative. The things we tend NOT to like are things like decreased research funding, increased patient volume/time and the increase in malpractice risk. However, none of these are all that changed in my field in the last 20 years. Certainly not enough to make my unhappy with the career. They are balanced by improved therapeutic options and, in my field at least, generally very good relationships with patient's families.

Now, to the OP: I know you have made it clear that you believe I am an outlier in my views, but I do know that I am often asked by other doctors if their premed kids can shadow with me and my group. I have no idea how they advise their children, but I've not heard a neonatologist or other pedi specialist say that they do not want their children to become a physician. Must be ascertainment bias?

 

[ButImLETired]

Uh, no. Just...no.

I'm sorry, is your issue with the first statement or the second? If it's the first, ok, fair enough. That's been my experience, but I don't expect it to be everyone's. I'll admit I've mostly been in academia-land and this has been the pattern of what I've seen: the older folks who have seen a lot of changes are more disgruntled and the younger folks were a bit better prepared for medicine as it is today. I've had arguments with admitting docs who don't understand certain management decisions that we make which are largely led by insurance/social concerns, while the younger folks who were residents in this same environment understand and are less upset. Again, the n is limited, so I expect that other people have had different experiences. I thought the "in my experience" was implied but I should have specified.

As for the second, if you genuinely disagree, I'm truly sorry for you. You have a long career ahead of you and I'm sorry you hate it that much. For what it's worth, I had a basic understanding of the problems with medicine from the get-go so I'm not terribly shocked by any of them, and the things I thought I'd love, I do love. I don't think I would have been any happier had I done anything else, though I may be selling myself short. It's ultimately irrelevant cause I have no interest in quitting. Not because I can't, not because I'm "stuck" (I'm still young, I don't have kids to support, I can basically do whatever I want without enormous consequences), but because this job makes sense to me and it fits me in a way I don't think too many jobs can. If that's not the case for you, that's unfortunate, but I think this is the epitome of a subjective issue, and it doesn't mean either one of us is incorrect or naive or stupid. You seem to imply that you picked the wrong job for you. I didn't.

Thanks for some excellent posts in this thread. My only comment is about this. I think this is somewhat specialty and academic vs private dependent. I've noticed in this thread that attendings in our 50's are said to be either very happy with our career because we are rich and have no debt or very unhappy because we are sick of all the loss of autonomy, own practice, etc. It's hard for me to know which one to be to meet expectations.

The attendings in their 50's and 60's that I know, and it's a fairly large n, are perhaps a bit more nuanced in how they see things. As an academic attending, the way in which I'm paid (annual salary) and who is my boss (a department chair) is the same as when I started. EMR is a mixed pro and con that is off-topic here, but isn't entirely a negative. The things we tend NOT to like are things like decreased research funding, increased patient volume/time and the increase in malpractice risk. However, none of these are all that changed in my field in the last 20 years. Certainly not enough to make my unhappy with the career. They are balanced by improved therapeutic options and, in my field at least, generally very good relationships with patient's families.

Now, to the OP: I know you have made it clear that you believe I am an outlier in my views, but I do know that I am often asked by other doctors if their premed kids can shadow with me and my group. I have no idea how they advise their children, but I've not heard a neonatologist or other pedi specialist say that they do not want their children to become a physician. Must be ascertainment bias?

This is very true and a great point. I'll admit because my specialty is hospital-based and I'm in residency my familiarity with private practice medicine is pretty limited. I do find that the pediatricians I've met have been pretty happy (though most of them say reimbursements are way too low for gen peds).

 

[ButImLETired]

Does every job require you to miss out on on things in college (ie: sacrificing a lot of their social life), having to take a hard(er) major, massive debt leaving college and medschool, long work weeks in residency/fellowship, being away from loved ones, long work hours, it being such a high risk occupation, the depression/anxiety, watching your friends enjoy their 20's doing fun stuff/starting families while yo're hitting the books, etc.

What you said is an extreme under-exaggeration. Not to mention, I'd argue the majority of students have had a job in HS and or in college. I've had 4 jobs since HS; They all sucked to some extent (poor pay, bad boss, etc aka REGULAR things) but none required this level of sacrifice. Like I said, the physicians I spoke to like their job, but they wouldn't recommend anyone to go into the field. Its difficult to ignore this when they were once like you and i.

Of course this is a very difficult road, I'm not denying that. I gave up a lot to do what I do, but I also gained a lot. For what it's worth, I was never friends with too many premeds in college, so my closest friends do entirely different things than what I do. And yes, of course they have a better schedule and less debt (though most of them studied pretty hard in college, not that much less than I did). One of my closest friends works as a writer for a magazine, she works from home, makes the same money I do as a resident, and is married and has a life. Great. I couldn't do what she does. I'm bored just hearing about it. I can't imagine sitting down at a desk writing all day. I'd miss people, and I'd miss the immediacy of knowing what I'm doing the work for. When I come home from work, I can list the number of actual things I've done with my day that have helped people. I've been around people all day, I've been on my feet, and I'm pretty much never bored. When she's done with her workday, she sort of just closes her laptop and moves on. Obviously it works for her, but it wouldn't work for me.
My other best friend is a lawyer. She makes 3x what I make and recently went on a really nice vacation. Still, she works 6 days a week 10-12 hours a day as a junior associate with the hopes that at some point she'll rise through the ranks (and have to work even harder). She, again, has a desk job, and is often alone in a small office just sort of working and writing. Again, this isn't something that's worth the free time for me.

Guys, nobody is holding a gun to your head. Medicine isn't the only job you could have, and the pros need to outweigh the cons for you. Nobody's arguing that the cons aren't there. I have no idea why you're so up in arms about people disagreeing with the idea that this is a miserable, horrible profession. You want to listen to those who tell you that it is? Fantastic, enjoy your life doing whatever else you want to do. We were just trying to explain that it's not a journey in self-flagellation for everyone. Hey, I'd rather have fewer whiners and grumps in the profession anyway so by all means if you think you're gonna hate it or the sacrifices seem like too much for you, run for the hills. Just don't be that guy that tries to convince everyone else to go into another field, cause that's just pointless.

 

[James401]

This is SDN not a medical school secondary. PAs and NPs can have the same relationship.

lol saw that coming