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DO or MD

Discussion in 'Osteopathic' started by azeri, 05.21.99.

  1. azeri

    azeri Junior Member

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    I have been accepted to both an MD and a DO program. I am not sure which to choose. I might want to practice in the South, for instance GA or NC. Does anyone know how DO's are accepted in that area of the country?
  2. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member

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    Very, very ... VERY slowly...
    Just like everything else I my add. In the South everything takes 50 extra years.
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03

    PS: the DO vs MD choice is very subjective and you are going to have to make that decision yourself. I choose DO.
  3. kundun

    kundun Senior Member

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    Florida has a fairly large osteopathic medical community. However, there are a lot of physicians down here. Therefore, it's rather competitive.
  4. DOPhD student

    DOPhD student Senior Member

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    azeri, in all earnest, I cannot recommend the DO route - too many social implications, if not overt then subtle. I chose the DO route, but I believe you should choose the MD route. You get to play with the big boys in the same pond without all the extra weights. Good luck no matter what though.
  5. Phil E.

    Phil E. Junior Member

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    Azeri - Georgia loves osteopathic docs. There are many training opps. in Georgia and many practicing DOs. (Check out the Georgia Osteopathic Institute.) A friend of my family's, who is a DO, just finished his residency and got a very lucrative job in North Carolina and there are many DOs in western N.C. (especially rural areas).

    As far as being "handicapped" with a DO degree... I know of MANY DOs doing residencies at places like Johns Hopkins, Harvard, The Cleveland Clinic, and other "big boy ponds". Keep in mind though, that these are mostly primary care residencies. If you are overly concerned about other people's perceptions of you, or if you want to be a big shot surgeon, then MD is probably the way to go. I personally think that osteopathic medicine lends itself perfectly to primary care, sports medicine, OB/Gyn and others, but that's just my opinion. Good Luck!

    ------------------
    Phil E. COM 02
  6. spunkydoc

    spunkydoc Senior Member

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    i have major dissappointments with the DO route and am not sure i would recommend it if i had to do it all over..however, it is possible to go where you want to go and do what you want to do..

    frankly, the grass is always greener on the other side..if you have choices, great..choose based on what you want to accomplish..if you are only looking for prestige, go md..if you are in need of a straight and narrow, well established, rarely any pitfalls, go md..if you have an adventurous streak in you, and really will incorporate the osteopathic philosophy into your practice, go DO..

    overall, the allopathic world is a lot easier to maneuver..but if you are a mover and a shaker to begin with, you'll navigate the DO world just fine..

    in addition, if your goal is simply to freakin practice medicine and you could care less about md or do, and you have the md choice, you may as well just go md and be done with it..there is not a whole heck of a lot of difference..
  7. azeri

    azeri Junior Member

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    Thanks for all the advice! I especially like the "grass is always greener" point. No matter which program I choose I think that I will be missing out on something...there is no such thing as a perfect program. So I think I have to get over trying to decide which program is best.

    On another note, does anyone know of any statistics that show how many DO's are actually using OMT? The DO program teaches so much neuro-musculoskeletal stuff and if you don't use it what's the point?

    Thanks again for all the feedback!
  8. lala

    lala Junior Member

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    Phil E.,
    Could you please post the names, residency programs and schools (with internet addresses) of all the DO's that you know who are in residencies at JHU, Harvard and other hot shot schools?

    DOPhD student: why the change of heart again? once, you regretted being a DO student, then you liked being one and now you aren't reccommending the DO route? what's going on?
  9. Phil E.

    Phil E. Junior Member

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    lala - There are many (many=relative term) DOs doing residencies in big name schools across the country. If you must see proof check out the family medicine pages for University of Washington and UCLA. I'm sorry I don't have the exact page addresses but it only took me 10 minutes to find these by searching and I'm sure there are many more. I'll admit that my knowledge of residents at Harvard, JHU, and The Cleveland Clinic is secondhand. This was mentioned to my class by faculty members and I can't see any reason why they would lie about it. It's possible that I misunderstood but I don't think so. It made a pretty big impression. Also, I'm not saying that it's common for DOs to do residencies at these schools.
    I suppose I could ask around and get the names of these residents but, frankly, I have better things to do.

    This is my last post. I wish everyone good luck in their careers, whether you will be a DO, an MD, or just an SOB.
  10. VM

    VM Senior Member

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    Don't forget that D.O.s only make up about 5% of the total physician pool, so you can't expect an equal amount of D.O.s as M.D.s in certain programs, and faculty positions. Also, of course most of these positions are in primary care because this is what most D.O.s want to do, and it is the aim of most of the schools.
  11. will

    will Junior Member

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    lala,

    mayo.edu/ent-rst/2002.html
    Dr. Facer
    osteopathic physician
    2nd year resident
    head and neck surgery at Mayo Clinic

    Dr. Delgado
    resident-DO
    anesthesiology
    Yale school of medicine
    I believe the web site is enthalpy.com
  12. will

    will Junior Member

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    metrohealth.org/clinical/em/resident.asp
    cleveland clinic
    Alan Moy,DO-2nd year EM resident
    Heather Marshall,DO-1st year EM resident


    ccf.org/pediatrics/
    Michelle Marks, DO
    staff pediatrician
    trained at Cleveland clinic

    Sheila Paul, DO
    ped. psychiatrist
    on staff at Cleveland Clinic
    trained at Rush


    Do I need to keep going or is that enough? Do a quick search at Hopkins and I bet you can find them too.
    will
  13. will

    will Junior Member

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    JHU
    med.jhu.edu/rehab/faculty/faculty.html
    Mark Gloth, DO
    chief resident at JHU phys & rehab
    now medical director and faculty member at JHU


    acenet.jhmi.edu/emergency/mysk.htm
    William Mysko, DO
    senior attending phys.
    assistant professor-JHU

    acenet.jhmi.edu/emergency/thirdyr.htm
    Taras Danyluk, DO
    3rd year ER resident-JHU

    med.jhu.edu/anesthesiology/facultyresidents1998.htm
    I counted 6 DOs in 98-99 class, including Mary Beth Hanley, DO-UNECOM
    chief resident

    Now I'm starting to be surprised
  14. drusso

    drusso Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Don't forget Dr. Liem at Stanford, a professor of medicine and cardiologist

    http://mtc.stanford.edu/CVMFellowship/lliem041699.htm

    Or, Dr. Henehan, an extremely bright man who is director of Stanford's sports medicine program

    http://www.stanford.edu/group/sjmc/fellow/spmedfac.html

  15. In all sincerity I think running around looking up the names of DO's at prestigious universities just perpetuates the myth that DO's ar MD wannabees. All everyone says here is that they just want to be a compassionate, caring physician and that if that is the case their patients will respect them. Fantastic, go for it but why then do you always have to name drop? If you know you have the same opportunities that should be good enough.
  16. DOPhD student

    DOPhD student Senior Member

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    For once, I find myself in complete agreement with DOGBOY. No need for comparison. How goes the saying "first and foremost, know thyself" and that should be good enough for anyone. I find it disturbing that some DO students need to compare themselves to MDs or evaluate success based upon the allopathic model, ie. whether or not one is doing residency at some "prestigious" allopathic institutions. Patients are patients, and medicine is medicine. Citing references of people doing residencies at allopathic hospitals will only reinforce the notion that DOs use MDs as a measuring stick. Whereas the laws have recognized the equality of the two professions and whereas the allopathic world has (reluctantly) recognized DOs as fully trained physicians with all due privileges, why do DOs feel the need to compare themselves? What is so wrong with knowing yourselves and when asked, reply you're DOs - fully trained and licensed physicians or surgeons who prescribe or perform surgery? You don't see MDs walking around explaining they're physicians...just like the DOs do you?

    Sorry for the re-editing - annoying spelling errors.

    [This message has been edited by DOPhD student (edited May 27, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by DOPhD student (edited May 27, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by DOPhD student (edited May 27, 1999).]
  17. drusso

    drusso Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    I agree with both DOGBOY (what an unfortunate name) and DOPhD. I find all kinds of name dropping embarrassing, but someone asked for clear references of DO's at leading allopathic institutions.

    Misinformation regarding the opportunities for DO's is rampant in the premed community. I don't think it detracts from osteopathic medicine's community-focused, holistic, primary care emphasis to remind people from time to time that *ALL* opportunities in medicine are open to DO's--even tertiary care opportunities at large, well recognized hospitals and training institutions.

    --dave
  18. jdaasbo

    jdaasbo Senior Member

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    Gentlemen,

    I think the point of the name dropping is this: many students who consider applying to DO schools are often confronted with the notion that becoming a DO places limitations on your career possibilities. In citing all these cases of DOs in "high places" (please pay attention to the quotations), you are accentuating the fact that DOs can do anything they want to, be it a EP at Stanford (Dr. Liem) or a rural FP in Ohio.

    This is not illustrating a shortcoming of DOs or pointing out an inferiority complex, but rather it is addressing what is often an issue for premeds who are sincerely interested in osteopathic issues (or even just becoming a damn good physician).

    In summary, the message is this: if you choose a DO school, yes there may be some discrimination, but in spite of this you can go wherever you want to including the most difficult to reach of the allopathic academic bastions.
  19. Josh

    Josh Junior Member

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    DO, MD, what does it matter? I am currently pursuing the study of medicine for the personal reward that comes with knowing you are doing a service for the benefit of other human beings. It's not just a catchy theme to write on an application. To love people is to practice medicine, not to gain some level of great social stature. If one needs to fill a social void in one's life, perhaps medicine is not the best choice of careers.
    With that said, I have yet to be accepted into either medical philosophy. I am applying to more osteo schools than allo, simply because the idea of treating people rather than diseases is quite appealing to me. If your primary motives for entering the healing arts are prestige and power, your motives are questionable.
    Now, with all of this off of my chest. Any one want to tell me what to do? I love helping people: bottom line. Will being a DO ever hinder me in pursuing any medical aspirations that I may some day elect to explore? Are DO's still really looked down apon by their MD counterparts? Please let me know, someone!

    ------------------

  20. Synergy

    Synergy Member

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    Josh,
    Sorry you haven't been accepted yet. I have been there (and ah feel yo pain). Being a DO nowadays is fine. I would also apply to more MD schools just to give yourself a better chance. You personally can treat people and not diseases. Also many allopathic schools are becoming more osteopathic in their philosophy (or at least they pay lip service to it).
  21. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member

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    You asked: Will being a DO ever hinder me in pursuing any medical aspirations that I may some day elect to explore? Are DO's still really looked down apon by their MD counterparts? Please let me know, someone!

    Will being a DO hinder your medical aspirations? Well, if you develop the aspiration to get a neurosurgical residency at an Ivy League medical school, it might hinder you. But not specifically because of your DO degree. Rather, you'd be hindered in the same way an MD from a no-name state MD school would be hindered. I doubt they would be rejecting you and saying, "Egads! He's one of those horrid DO quacks!" Rather, they would just be accepting the guys from Columbia, Harvard, Yale, and so forth first. So, I often hear premeds tell me that DOs can't land competitive residencies. Well, the truth is that MOST MDs can't land them either; and just because they are competitive. The MD degree isn't as magical as some paint it to be.

    You also asked if MDs will look down on you. I guarantee you that at some point in your medical career you will find at least one MD who will look down on you. For that matter, you will find DOs that will look down on you. Medicine is, unfortunately, very competitive and full of egos. That is why you have surgeons that look down on internists who, in turn, look down on psychiatrists who then look down on... So basically, you will be looked down upon by somebody regardless of the degree you possess. Just don't sweat it and do the job you were well-trained to do.

    Good luck.

    [​IMG]
  22. Josh

    Josh Junior Member

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    Thanks for the advice and inspiration people. I am currently studying my MCAT materials. What fun! I have just completed the Biology Unit in my review book, and took the first test to see where I stand. Early signs suggest that I will be standing outside of most medical schools for the 2000 enrollement. I don't get it. I was a good student, why am I having a hard time with these MCAT style questions? Any advice from experience? Will I fail miserably? Is it as bad as its reputation is?
    P.S.
    A little bit about me. I am 22, and this is my first attempt at med school admissions. I was pursuing my doctorate in physical therapy, and decided it was not enough. My whole life I have wanted to be a physician, and I was unable to satisfy my desires with the course of study that had I decided to substitute my dreams with. So, hear I am.
    If I ask a lot of questions, thats why. I am fortunate to have found this "lounge". Being successful students, I look up to each of you. I am actually quite honored to have the opportunity to speak with people who have attained a difficult goal; a goal that I hope to some day acquire.
  23. Josh

    Josh Junior Member

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    Thanks for the advice and inspiration people. I am currently studying my MCAT materials. What fun! I have just completed the Biology Unit in my review book, and took the first test to see where I stand. Early signs suggest that I will be standing outside of most medical schools for the 2000 enrollement. I don't get it. I was a good student, why am I having a hard time with these MCAT style questions? Any advice from experience? Will I fail miserably? Is it as bad as its reputation is?
    P.S.
    A little bit about me. I am 22, and this is my first attempt at med school admissions. I was pursuing my doctorate in physical therapy, and decided it was not enough. My whole life I have wanted to be a physician, and I was unable to satisfy my desires with the course of study that had I decided to substitute my dreams with. So, hear I am.
    If I ask a lot of questions, thats why. I am fortunate to have found this "lounge". Being successful students, I look up to each of you. I am actually quite honored to have the opportunity to speak with people who have attained a difficult goal; a goal that I hope to some day acquire.

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