DO osteopathic unfriendly residencies.

[Instatewaiter]

Can u expand? Why is nephro a dying field?

Yeah it's not a dying field. Uncompetitive, for some of the reasons posted about above but people are living longer and needing more dialysis.

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[Instatewaiter]

A couple points:

1) There was no neurosurgery resident at Hopkins from a DO school
2) While there are 2 hokins hospitals in Baltimore (bayview and JHH), the DOs were at the main campus.
3) It is not illegal to discriminate against a DO for employment or residency as someone posted earlier.
4) Not all foreign schools are regarded the same. Indian schools, Carribean schools and the like do not have a lot of respect by PDs (compared to say US MD schools). That said, the premier Austrailian and western european schools are regarded highly.
5) It is highly plausible that a family member would help their less qualified niece get into a residency program. This happens al over the country in many ways- from nepotism to legacy students to URMs.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If they are seeing it in the way you are describing, then I think that is logical. However, if they are seeing it like a brand-name, then that is superficial.

Yeah some of those European schools are on par with some of the elite schools in the US. I've noticed on the residents bio page of certain program websites that the FMGs usually come from the same group of schools. I'm assuming these are some pretty darn good schools but I have no idea.

 

[Mjolner]

What's the best osteopathic school in the US?

Princeton college of osteopathic medicine.

 

[acapnial]

Princeton college of osteopathic medicine.

Whatever, man. Everyone knows you only go there if you couldn't get into BYUCOM.

 

[kirkirkir]

A couple points:

1) There was no neurosurgery resident at Hopkins from a DO school
2) While there are 2 hokins hospitals in Baltimore (bayview and JHH), the DOs were at the main campus.
3) It is not illegal to discriminate against a DO for employment or residency as someone posted earlier.
4) Not all foreign schools are regarded the same. Indian schools, Carribean schools and the like do not have a lot of respect by PDs (compared to say US MD schools). That said, the premier Austrailian and western european schools are regarded highly.
5) It is highly plausible that a family member would help their less qualified niece get into a residency program. This happens al over the country in many ways- from nepotism to legacy students to URMs.

In California it is illegal to discriminate for residency and employment.

 

[Mjolner]

In California it is illegal to discriminate for residency and employment.

They SAY it's for a different reason, but they still reject you.

"Are you firing me because I'm old?"
"no you came in late once"
Etc

 

[kirkirkir]

They SAY it's for a different reason, but they still reject you.

"Are you firing me because I'm old?"
"no you came in late once"
Etc

I'm aware of this and until some lawsuits happen, no progress will be made. This is why I created this post.

 

[yanks26dmb]

anyone know if there are distinctly DO UNFRIENDLY pm&r residencies?

 

[Mjolner]

I'm aware of this and until some lawsuits happen, no progress will be made. This is why I created this post.

Good luck in court but I wouldn't hold your breath

 

[marginalhx]

Although most people don't know I'm a DO here because my badge, login, e-signature, etc, etc, all says MD because the computer system here doesn't give any other option if you're a physician.

lol

 

[Shorin-Ryu]

Cali not exactly very friendly. Not to many DO's sneaking into the more popular academic programs. I doubt we will see that change much anytime soon.

I believe a highly competitive Integrated (6) Cardiothoracic Residency Program at UC Davis has been taking a DO each year or, at least, for the last two years. A graduate of Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine in 2016 and a graduate of Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Erie, PA in 2015.

 

[Dharma]

I believe a highly competitive Integrated (6) Cardiothoracic Residency Program at UC Davis has been taking a DO each year or, at least, for the last two years. A graduate of Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine in 2016 and a graduate of Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Erie, PA in 2015.

Good news indeed but still... Odds are against DO students.

 

[Nabs0814]

Am I to assume NYU Langone doesn't take any D.O students for their Peds residency program?

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Just saying...equal apps across the board and only difference is DO vs. MD degrees....MD is going to get the spot and a better spot. If a DO sneaks in...it's because MDs turned it down and it got to the DO on the rank list.
I'm as pro-DO as anyone, but I wish we kept our things separate...20 years from now MD = specialty and DO = primary care...mark it down.

I want to modify it slightly, 20 years MD = specialty, DO = Primary care supervisor, NP/PA = primary care

 

[CajunMedic]

EM: LSU-New Orleans,- No DO rotations per their website: "Note that LSU-NO only accepts students from AAMC accredited medical schools." but for applications: "Outstanding applicants with previous training, DO degrees or non-traditional medical training will be considered.". I've never heard of or seen a DO match there. The IM program has only 1 from PCOM-GA.

LSU-Baton Rouge is now DO unfriendly (Almost half the classes used to be DO/Carib) -current 4th year on EMS Med Direction/Community Paramedicine elective in BR was told they weren't going to taking any DO's. I was told by a couple of faculty members not to waste an away rotation there (no correlation between rotations and matching). They now have the same rule about AAMC accredited schools that LSU-NO does. Ironically enough, they have a DO attending who graduated from the "old" (pre hospital closure and program movement) program

Just saw this thread at the top and wanted to update:

LSU New Orleans is more DO friendly-took at least 2 from my school and was actively trying to recruit more.
LSU Baton Rouge EM took their first DO in at least 4 years, stats were stellar and an n=1, but might be a good sign.

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

Just saw this thread at the top and wanted to update:

LSU New Orleans is more DO friendly-took at least 2 from my school and was actively trying to recruit more.
LSU Baton Rouge EM took their first DO in at least 4 years, stats were stellar and an n=1, but might be a good sign.

LSU New Orleans also just took a DO for Ortho.

 

[Goro]

Just saw this thread at the top and wanted to update:

LSU New Orleans is more DO friendly-took at least 2 from my school and was actively trying to recruit more.
LSU Baton Rouge EM took their first DO in at least 4 years, stats were stellar and an n=1, but might be a good sign.

LSU New Orleans also just took a DO for Ortho.

The times, they are a-changin'.

 

[SLC]

Doximity top 20 in any field, except family/peds/pmr/er.

Add IM. UTSW took one this year (Dox #10)

 

[SLC]

where did you hear that? As far as I know Rochester was the only acgme program to take a D.O. in the last 3 years.

Loma Linda took one from ATSU-SOMA in their first graduating class.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

LSU New Orleans also just took a DO for Ortho.

They took one last year too I believe. From LMU-DCOM. May have been the year before that.

 

[Redpancreas]

Internal Medicine- BWH, MGH, NYP Columbia/Cornell, NYU Langone, WashUSL, UW (there is one from Touro but it is prelim), UCSD, UCLA Ronald Reagan, UCSF, Stanford, CU Denver, Northwestern, Prtizker...

I know for a fact that UCSD interviews DOs for IM.

Exactly. If the cream of the crop is there for the PD's they have no reason to even look at independent applicants including FMG/IMG, Reapps, or DO's.

Will that change when DO grads become NMRP internal applicants? My guess is probably not.

I disagree. I find my DO colleagues to overestimate (initially when admitted) and underestimate (when they find this forum) their competitiveness. It's not as hard as ya'll are making it seem for IM (there's no need for a Step 1 240 cutoff, top of class is not needed for mid tier ACGME programs, etc). Places like UIowa (some would say bottom of top tier) and MCW, Henry Ford, (solid mid-tier) are really not super competitive for DOs and I know friends with mid 230s on Step 1, not much research, middling class rank, and nothing really special on their application who have matched here. If you want to find an upper to midtier IM program target the midwest. Great places include CCF, Ohio State, Indiana, MCW, Wisconsin, Minnesota, UIC, Loyola, and Cincinnati. All these programs are phenomenal and will take you guys.

Radiology - even in a "down" cycle right now with poor job market, no top 15 programs will interview you and only 3 in the top 35-40 will interview a DO. Those are Cleveland Clinic, UPMC, and Yale

Neurosurgery - Basically no program no matter what...yes there have been some DOs match at Kansas, LSU, Missouri, and a few others but it's exceedingly rare and takes a near perfect application in addition to luck, special circumstances, or a connection.

The poster who mentioned looking at the top 20 or so on doximity is on the right track. I would addend that to say any specialty that has a board score average above the mean, probably the top 30-40 programs will not interview/take DOs unless it's a special case.
Also, it's WORSE now that the merger went through. There are a lot of PDs on both sides who are frustrated and I've seen/heard of MORE bias the last 2 years than the previous 5-10 years - mostly in the surgical subspecialties.

Incorrect. You have to look harder.

Doximity top 20 in any field, except family/peds/pmr/er.

Add Anesthesia as a whole to that list. Also, Fake Mayos, UPenn Affiliate, and CCF (decent place) take DOs. UWashington may too if I can remember. As a general rule, the East coast is more traditional than the West Coast, but both have complexes.

 

[SaltyMeatBalls]

University of Colorado took their first categorical peds DO this year. They also took a DO for IM. WashU in STL took their first categorical peds and they took 2 of them. The UTSW IM and university of washington surgical matches are impressive too. I wonder if these people took the USMLE. Maybe not the pediatrics, but surely the others took it. I think DOs are gaining more credibility by taking the usmle. It gives program directors a good way to evaluate.

 

[InternistDO]

University of Colorado took their first categorical peds DO this year. They also took a DO for IM. WashU in STL took their first categorical peds and they took 2 of them. The UTSW IM and university of washington surgical matches are impressive too. I wonder if these people took the USMLE. Maybe not the pediatrics, but surely the others took it. I think DOs are gaining more credibility by taking the usmle. It gives program directors a good way to evaluate.

I know for a fact that some of those people took the USMLEs (and killed it). I would be shocked if any of them only took COMLEX.

 

[SaltyMeatBalls]

Maybe the NBOME should make that into a photo for publicity haha

 

[SaltyMeatBalls]

Colorado comment is incorrect. They have had peds residents in the past.

My bad, I was not aware. Still impressive nonetheless

 

[Haxx]

EM: LSU-New Orleans,- No DO rotations per their website: "Note that LSU-NO only accepts students from AAMC accredited medical schools." but for applications: "Outstanding applicants with previous training, DO degrees or non-traditional medical training will be considered.". I've never heard of or seen a DO match there. The IM program has only 1 from PCOM-GA.

LSU-Baton Rouge is now DO unfriendly (Almost half the classes used to be DO/Carib) -current 4th year on EMS Med Direction/Community Paramedicine elective in BR was told they weren't going to taking any DO's. I was told by a couple of faculty members not to waste an away rotation there (no correlation between rotations and matching). They now have the same rule about AAMC accredited schools that LSU-NO does. Ironically enough, they have a DO attending who graduated from the "old" (pre hospital closure and program movement) program

A classmate of mine from RVU matched at LSU-BR in EM this year, sooooooo......

 

[Haxx]

anyone know if there are distinctly DO UNFRIENDLY pm&r residencies?

For the most part? No. My incoming class at Mayo will be exactly 50/50. I've heard that UColorado isn't the most friendly ever, but they've accepted DOs in the past, so who knows?

 

[CajunMedic]

A classmate of mine from RVU matched at LSU-BR in EM this year, sooooooo......

I saw that and made an updated post. Congrats to them!