Do primary care docs in rural areas really make $300K-400K? Is this the norm or the exception?

[AMEHigh]

We have some African American families, tons of Central American immigrants, and the college brings in multiple ethnicities in the form of foreign students. Plus, the college brings with it a lot of religious diversity, political diversity, etc.

Like I said, most people are still while and low to middle class socioeconomically; but man these people are nice, and inclusive of anyone from what I’ve seen.

Ahh yes being in a college town can definitely have its benefits! I know there’s been declines in foreign university students with this administrations policies but hopefully that changes in the future under different policies.

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[Coltuna]

what is going with this thread...

 

[SLC]

Or get called the N word simply for existing. I’m sure you meant no harm in your statement, but I can’t help but call things out that are incorrect when I see them.

Yep, but that crap happens literally everywhere. It’s not unique to rurals in any way shape or form. I’ve experienced bias before for being of a certain religious minority; and for being a male who provides women’s health services. And while I’m sure you don’t feel that’s equivalent; and I’m not even trying to suggest it is; I’ve learned that I need to just blow that stuff off and realize that those people are usually just dealing with a lot of crappy life syndrome. It often has nothing much to do with me at all.

Also, there’s nothing wrong with suggesting that people act with respect to others in order to get respect from others. And it’s not a suggestion that you, or anyone else needs to change behavior. I assumed by default that you’re a good person already.

But if you’re not, why would you expect inclusion or a sense of welcome? Nobody wants to be around someone who’s a jerk. That’s got nothing at all to do with race.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Or get called the N word simply for existing. I’m sure you meant no harm in your statement, but I can’t help but call things out that are incorrect when I see them. People who experience racism aren’t the ones whose behavior needs to change. I’m a very nice and open person, but that doesn’t stop the racism and harassment I’ve experienced (from both the general public and from patients). Trust me, when someone calls me the N word or a patient says “get your black hands off me, N” I certainly am not combative and am nice. Those people literally give me nightmares and I don’t mess around with that.

It's almost like that's why his post said

It’s all about how you interact with the community. Be open and friendly, and generally you’ll get the same treatment in return.

Yes, some people are just racist asshats. But a fair number aren't, and some that are can be brought around by good interactions with the race in question. It shouldn't have to be that way, but that's the world we live in.

 

[AMEHigh]

Yep, but that crap happens literally everywhere. It’s not unique to rurals in any way shape or form.

Cool. I see it was a misunderstanding. I certainly wasn't saying it was just a rural problem. Just commenting that "being nice" doesn't shield one from being harrassed or experiencing racism. But I see you understand that and it was just a misunderstanding. Unfortunately, some people don't agree with you/me so you just never know and I decided on erring on the side of speaking up. This kind of stuff isn't talked about enough in medicine, so I think it's important to discuss. (Yes I know I have now gotten off topic and a mod will threaten to shut this thread down!)

 

[DNC127]

A little late but, family med is the secret sauce OP.

I try and tell all the 1st years it is the most stress free way to go about medical school if you are into that. I am not applying FM, but if I "had" to do FM in Idaho, wyoming, etc I would be 100% happy with life.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

We have some African American families, tons of Central American immigrants, and the college brings in multiple ethnicities in the form of foreign students. Plus, the college brings with it a lot of religious diversity, political diversity, etc.

Like I said, most people are still while and low to middle class socioeconomically; but man these people are nice, and inclusive of anyone from what I’ve seen.

Sounds like state college, pa

 

[Splenda88]

Sounds like state college, pa

No, it's sound like somewhere in UTAH... PA is in the midwest.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No, it's sound like somewhere in UTAH... PA is in the midwest.

No, it's not

 

[siliso]

Where is PA? I mean I know where on the map but...northeast? Midwest to me starts at Ohio.

 

[Splenda88]

No, it's not

You are right... It's in the northeast

 

[DNAJB6]

You being a realist is the problem. You're a passive person. You won't do anything for the reimbursement situation. You're passive and just go wherever the wind carries you. Because that's life for you. I oppose the wind. I oppose an unfair life. I want things to become better for those that truly deserve it. This is not a matter of taking from the rich and give to the poor. This is a matter of empowering those that should have it better. And physicians, when their conditions and experiences have been adjusted and contrasted to the likes of Bieber, are those that need to be empowered.

This doesn't merit any further discussion. You are entitled to your realism/socialist hybrid or whatever it is that drives you to insult physicians by implicitly saying they don't deserve the money I have proposed they ought to earn (after careful studies I've conducted too btw, not just a number i pulled out of my ass). And I am entitled to spread awareness that hopefully will open physicians' eyes and realize what lies ahead. This marks the end of my contributions to the side-subject I started in this thread.

In fairness your position isn't helpful for the reimbursement or pay situation either. Demanding exorbitant raises would price doctors out of the market and cause physicians to be replaced at even higher rates by mid level providers. Your argument isn't feasible in a free market economy. I see a lot of entitlement. No one is entitled to anything as a matter of right or virtue. Of course physicians bust their butts through rigorous training, but there are non-physicians that work just as hard for much less. No one here is claiming that physicians have it easy; however, comparing $300k+ salaries to slave labor is absurd.

 

[Chibucks15]

In fairness your position isn't helpful for the reimbursement or pay situation either. Demanding exorbitant raises would price doctors out of the market and cause physicians to be replaced at even higher rates by mid level providers. Your argument isn't feasible in a free market economy. I see a lot of entitlement. No one is entitled to anything as a matter of right or virtue. Of course physicians bust their butts through rigorous training, but there are non-physicians that work just as hard for much less. No one here is claiming that physicians have it easy; however, comparing $300k+ salaries to slave labor is absurd.

Exactly. I worked harder for minimum wage than I have in med school. They both sucked/are hard, but comparing the two is insane

 

[CidHighwind]

FM docs get paid well out in the country, but what I’ve heard of what some specialists making is even multiples of what FM docs make.

 

[raiderette]

No, it's sound like somewhere in UTAH... PA is in the midwest.

Well, it is part of the Big 10 now.
PA is a weird state because it is part East Coast, part Rust Belt. Depending on the city, it has more in common with Cleveland, Gary, Detroit, and Milwaukee than with most East Coast cities.

 

[SLC]

Well, it is part of the Big 10 now.
PA is a weird state because it is part East Coast, part Rust Belt. Depending on the city, it has more in common with Cleveland, Gary, Detroit, and Milwaukee than with most East Coast cities.

My college is part of the PAC-12 now.

 

[percyeye]

In my rural town the FM Docs all have a lake house, and "winter" homes, and a few even have their own airplanes that they take whenever and wherever they want. I don't think they regret doing FM at all.

 

[deleted500612]

I'm getting irritated. Dude, people like you ignoring the money talk is precisely why physicians won't do anything for the declining reimbursements and soon the US doctor salaries will equalize the horrendous 60k/year salaries in Europe. We have families to feed, colleges to fund, retirement to contribute to, debts to pay after all these slave years. If I read your comment between the lines these things mean nothing to you. Are you a European socialist or something?

Regarding the hospitalist question. I think that any US doctor should make at least the lower end of the average salary calculated from the same quantity of physicians in the US as there are in the fields outside of academia, in the same area of the circle i described earlier. That roughly comes down to 15 million USD per year. If this is an eye-opener for you, then you probably never realized how overpaid those folks that irriate me to the teeth actually make. Best part is when they claim they go bankrupt. Stupid lucky idiots they are.

Also, you can't just look at the physician salary and be like ohh, that's great. No, it isn't. You have to be considerate of the effort put into whatever that lead to that money. 250k a year in passive income? That's outstanding! 250k a year as an actively working physician? Dude, that stinks. I'll be lucky to have money for noodles after my monthly pays for my 500k+ med school debt, retirement contributions and other essential expenses.

You can't compare average doctor salaries to those of upper echelon celebrities... these celebrities are exceptions to the rule, not the norm for those industries, and are reimbursed based on the revenue they generate. Musicians making 10 million per year? Hardly. Maybe the top 0.01% of musicians make that much, the rest are straddling the poverty line. Same for athletes and actors or anyone in entertainment. 99.99% of people in those fields can't even make a basic living doing those things never mind get rich off of it. It makes zero sense that you think the average doctor should make 15 million per year because that's what the top 0.01% of musicians make. Who do you think is going to pay your salary? Every insurance company would go bankrupt because nobody would be able to pay the premiums necessary for your bloated salary. And surely you don't want it to be funded through taxation right after you finished criticizing those filthy socialist economies. Your idea of what doctors should earn is unrealistic and entitled. Is physician training harder and longer than just about any other field? Absolutely, I don't think anybody would downplay or contest that. But that's why we already have the highest guaranteed income of any mainstream profession in existence. I think current compensations are in the range of what is more or less fair for most specialties, with non-procedural sub-specialists in general being a bit underpaid in my opinion. But I'm talking in the realm of maybe 10-20% pay increase at most for certain specialties, not a near 100x increase to 15 million per year, which is almost comical.

As an aside relevant to physician income, I think a better place to start is legal reform around healthcare, which could help physicians retain more of what they earn and also substantially decrease the time burden around exhaustive and superfluous documentation purely done for the sake of legal defence. The US medicolegal climate is absurd and completely illogical compared to virtually any other country. The fact that uneducated juries who know absolutely nothing about medicine can serve a $10 million judgment against a doctor based on the fact they "feel bad" for a patient who had a poor outcome despite there being no negligence or even medical error is just ridiculous, yet is par for the course here. This is why a lot of malpractice lawyers will settle for a sizeable pay out even if its clear there was no mistake or wrongdoing on part of the doctor simply because its not worth opening yourself up to the potential of an emotionally-driven jury verdict exceeding your malpractice insurance coverage. The medicolegal climate in the US is an utter joke compared to any other similar first world country.