Does it REALLY matter where you go?

[cashmoney805]

Hey, this may seem like a dumb question but does it really matter where you go to med school? I go to an Ivy now, but I think it's just a waste of money and the only good thing about going here is the name. Teachers may be better at better schools, but doesn't it really come down to the individual and how much he puts in to learning?

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[ayushman80]

Hey, this may seem like a dumb question but does it really matter where you go to med school? I go to an Ivy now, but I think it's just a waste of money and the only good thing about going here is the name. Teachers may be better at better schools, but doesn't it really come down to the individual and how much he puts in to learning?

I don't necessarily agree that the teachers are better at "better" schools. Frankly I think that some community college profs are WAY better than the one that are here at my 4 year institution. Some of these ivy professors are really into research and just dont have the skills to communicate properly with students (this obviously doesn't apply to everyone).

I think that at Ivy's and high ranking schools you get network in a way that is better than at a state institution. And networking does make a big difference. Also some of these private schools have large endowments and are very good at research (if thats what you are into).

 

[FlowLimited]

A lot of people would agree with you. You're most likely going to get a good education at any of the allopathic medical schools, and as long as you work hard enough you can get great board scores no matter where you attend. For some people though, the name is just too important. People hoping to enter academic medicine may have an easier time if they come from a big name medical institution.

 

[Decicco]

A lot of people would agree with you. You're most likely going to get a good education at any of the allopathic medical schools

I agree. And, as far as undergrad goes, not going to a top school is the best decision that I ever made (although I didn't really have the choice ). It helped me keep my grades up and I still learned enough to do well on the MCAT. The only reason I would prefer an Ivy undergrad education at this point would just be so that I can meet more interesting people and the whole "prestige" factor. But, once you get into MD school, who really cares whether you went to a prestigous undergrad school?

 

[Narmerguy]

So, honestly now, if you were accepted to an Ivy med school and accepted to another med school that is good but not quite top of the top, would you turn the Ivy down?

I'm curious whether there is any real benefit to ivy med school...does it help you with residency? Do you learn better? I already know you may have more research opportunities or whatever but other than that?

 

[FlowLimited]

So, honestly now, if you were accepted to an Ivy med school and accepted to another med school that is good but not quite top of the top, would you turn the Ivy down?

I'm curious whether there is any real benefit to ivy med school...does it help you with residency? Do you learn better? I already know you may have more research opportunities or whatever but other than that?

If it were me? I'd pick the school where I felt most comfortable, where I could see myself being happy for four years, and where I seemed to match well with the curriculum, values, etc. Name recognition has never been a big deal to me, and knowing that one school is ranked more highly than another doesn't pull much weight in my decision.

But other people don't necessarily feel this way, and their opinions of a school may be swayed by the big name.

 

[Decicco]

If it were me? I'd pick the school where I felt most comfortable, where I could see myself being happy for four years, and where I seemed to match well with the curriculum, values, etc. Name recognition has never been a big deal to me, and knowing that one school is ranked more highly than another doesn't pull much weight in my decision.

I agree, and I'd add that I would consider tuition too.

 

[FlowLimited]

I agree, and I'd add that I would consider tuition too.

Yep, can't forget tuition.

 

[redbull928]

Yep, it matters to me. I've had a great time at my current school that I'd love to stay here. Also, my interest is very specific, so I'd like to go to a med school that has a certain medical lab. Unfortunately, those are top notchies like hopkins and upenn.

Hey, this may seem like a dumb question but does it really matter where you go to med school? I go to an Ivy now, but I think it's just a waste of money and the only good thing about going here is the name. Teachers may be better at better schools, but doesn't it really come down to the individual and how much he puts in to learning?

 

[Livingapparatus]

it only matters for research, and big name faculty

that will justify the extra 100k for some people

 

[cashmoney805]

So, honestly now, if you were accepted to an Ivy med school and accepted to another med school that is good but not quite top of the top, would you turn the Ivy down?

I'm curious whether there is any real benefit to ivy med school...does it help you with residency? Do you learn better? I already know you may have more research opportunities or whatever but other than that?

I would have to see how much the difference was in tuition. If it was significant, I would go to the cheaper one. Going to Ivy undergrad has been the biggest mistake of my academic life. If Med schools don't take into consideration that an A here is so much harder than somewhere else, why did I come here?

 

[redbull928]

I've seen that with a lot of premeds at my school. My school is not an ivy league, but it's a highly ranked school. Many premeds here complain that they should've gone to an easier school, get higher grades so that the application process would be less stressful. Makes sense, but I see a flaw in their statement. So let's say those premeds go to so-so univ, get 4.0, and then go to some top notch med school. I'm guessing those students will end up in the bottom of the pile in the rankings at med schools. So when they have to apply for your internship/residency, most likely they'll end up in a place they didn't want to be in. Obviously they want easy ways out. I'm not sure how those attitudes fit in medicine.

In other words, I think you shouldn't think of your decision as a mistake. Be happy that you're there and do your best. The whole "oh, if only I were in an easier school" attitude won't help you.

I would have to see how much the difference was in tuition. If it was significant, I would go to the cheaper one. Going to Ivy undergrad has been the biggest mistake of my academic life. If Med schools don't take into consideration that an A here is so much harder than somewhere else, why did I come here?

 

[cashmoney805]

I've seen that with a lot of premeds at my school. My school is not an ivy league, but it's a highly ranked school. Many premeds here complain that they should've gone to an easier school, get higher grades so that the application process would be less stressful. Makes sense, but I see a flaw in their statement. So let's say those premeds go to so-so univ, get 4.0, and then go to some top notch med school. I'm guessing those students will end up in the bottom of the pile in the rankings at med schools. So when they have to apply for your internship/residency, most likely they'll end up in a place they didn't want to be in. Obviously they want easy ways out. I'm not sure how those attitudes fit in medicine.

In other words, I think you shouldn't think of your decision as a mistake. Be happy that you're there and do your best. The whole "oh, if only I were in an easier school" attitude won't help you.

I get what you're saying. Not to sound cocky, but I'm pretty certain if I get into Med school I will be so much more prepared for it, won't have trouble adjusting, and will just be a better student than a lot of people. The only thing is, getting in is so much harder when you're grades aren't as good as other people at not as challenging schools

 

[Livingapparatus]

I get what you're saying. Not to sound cocky, but I'm pretty certain if I get into Med school I will be so much more prepared for it, won't have trouble adjusting, and will just be a better student than a lot of people. The only thing is, getting in is so much harder when you're grades aren't as good as other people at lesser schools.

Lesser schools? No your right that doesnt sound cocky at all.

Where do you go for a reference? MIT, Hopkins?

 

[cashmoney805]

Chill, how else am I supposed to say it.

 

[disorder]

According to one resident that I know, where you went to medical school will play an important factor in where you get into residency.

Take it with a grain of salt. But she said along the interview process, the fact that she graduated from X school was of significance.

 

[wally47]

Hey, this may seem like a dumb question but does it really matter where you go to med school? I go to an Ivy now, but I think it's just a waste of money and the only good thing about going here is the name. Teachers may be better at better schools, but doesn't it really come down to the individual and how much he puts in to learning?

Hey Cash. Part of me wants to say that it doesn't matter. Will the school you go to affect how many patients you receive? Most likely not. That should depend on your ability as a physician. Will you be any less competant or effective if you don't go IVY? Absolutley not. It's all the same material.

That being said. The resources of the school/residency program and the learning environment that the affilated hospitals can provide aren't uniform. Typically, great programs are located in urban underserved areas where the high quantity of cases allow for hands on learning early on.

This isn't to say that you won't learn your ABC's of hands on medicine at less recognized schools/hopsitals. But, the high quantity of cases at large urban medical centers almost insure frequent exposure to procedures and diseases.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Hey, this may seem like a dumb question but does it really matter where you go to med school? I go to an Ivy now, but I think it's just a waste of money and the only good thing about going here is the name. Teachers may be better at better schools, but doesn't it really come down to the individual and how much he puts in to learning?

Theoretically, no. Practically, yes. For example, if one school makes students study out of text books or doesn't have a note taking system, and another school video records lectures AND gives students a comprehensive coursebook written by the professor that will contain answers to all questions on exams, then I think this will make a difference by saving the student a lot of time of reading through B.S. and cuts to the chase. A simple example, at my school, during first year, our exams were spaced out at least 1 week apart, and pages covered per exam NEVER exceeded 200 pages, with many exams being closer to 100 pages of notes (and notes have everything you need). Compare this to another school, where a friend of mine goes, which has cumulative finals (nearing 1300 pages) AND the "notes" are transcribed by students (aka not guaranteed by the professor and usually need to be supplemented with board review books or references). Do students in both schools do well? Yes. Am I glad to be at a school that saves us the crap and teaches us what really matters? absolutely!

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

So, honestly now, if you were accepted to an Ivy med school and accepted to another med school that is good but not quite top of the top, would you turn the Ivy down?

I'm curious whether there is any real benefit to ivy med school...does it help you with residency? Do you learn better? I already know you may have more research opportunities or whatever but other than that?

I'd give up a leg to get into an Ivy league school. I don't care how much I liked the other schools I interviewed at. I want that awesome piece of paper I get at graduation to have an Ivy league name on it.

 

[NickNaylor]

I get what you're saying. Not to sound cocky, but I'm pretty certain if I get into Med school I will be so much more prepared for it, won't have trouble adjusting, and will just be a better student than a lot of people. The only thing is, getting in is so much harder when you're grades aren't as good as other people at not as challenging schools

I think the reason that most people resent your attitude is because it's ridiculous. I don't go to an Ivy, and I have to work hard for my A's. As hard as you? Maybe not. But you made that decision.

I can't really stand people that piss and moan about how hard THEIR school is, as if everyone else is just getting a degree handed to them.

 

[harposnarpo]

it only matters for research, and big name faculty

that will justify the extra 100k for some people

All I care about is the match list and academic medicine possibilities. I'd turn down full scholarships if offered and I get into a big name school. Debt doesn't matter to me so long as I have that much a better chance to end up where I want to 10 years from now.

One of my high school buddies turned down a full scholarship to a top state school (top 20) for an Ivy undergrad. He wasn't made of $$ either. Never understood his decision.

 

[bcat85]

I agree. And, as far as undergrad goes, not going to a top school is the best decision that I ever made (although I didn't really have the choice ). It helped me keep my grades up and I still learned enough to do well on the MCAT. The only reason I would prefer an Ivy undergrad education at this point would just be so that I can meet more interesting people and the whole "prestige" factor. But, once you get into MD school, who really cares whether you went to a prestigous undergrad school?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

So, honestly now, if you were accepted to an Ivy med school and accepted to another med school that is good but not quite top of the top, would you turn the Ivy down?

I'm curious whether there is any real benefit to ivy med school...does it help you with residency? Do you learn better? I already know you may have more research opportunities or whatever but other than that?

I certainly wouldn't turn the Ivy down for another school. Its probably only marginally helpful, but the networking/research are probably worthwhile.

According to one resident that I know, where you went to medical school will play an important factor in where you get into residency.

Take it with a grain of salt. But she said along the interview process, the fact that she graduated from X school was of significance.

I know peds isn't an ultracompetitive specialty, but this was the first one I found:

http://www.hopkinschildrens.org/tpl_nav1up_nav2up.aspx?id=1094

It is somewhat helpful probably, but other factors are much more important, same as MD admissions.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I have talked to many doctors about this, and they all tell me the same thing: it basically doesn't matter.

If you want to go into research medicine, this is an exception.

Going to a big name school will have increased networking possibilities, and that can be worth a lot if you want to rise to a policy-maker position.

And there's the obvious stepping stone factor, meaning that a big-name school might give you a bigger step up (and I'm not positive about how big it is exactly).

Other than this, an MD is an MD. (Unless it's overseas in which case may God have mercy on your soul.) The quality of medicine you practice depends on you, not your school. If all you want to do is work the trenches like the majority of physicians out there, then don't sweat.

As for tuition, I'm probably going to go HPSP so I don't pay attention to that.

 

[SiR99]

All I care about is the match list and academic medicine possibilities. I'd turn down full scholarships if offered and I get into a big name school. Debt doesn't matter to me so long as I have that much a better chance to end up where I want to 10 years from now.

One of my high school buddies turned down a full scholarship to a top state school (top 20) for an Ivy undergrad. He wasn't made of $$ either. Never understood his decision.

I think Cal is the Top state school and its ranked at 21 so there arnt any top 20 state schools, but I know that at state schools you do not get as much support and help when needed, whereas I have never heard this from a private school, especially one that is highly ranked.

I really hope this is not the case with Medical schools, but if it was the case, it would make sense to go to a private school which would help you succeed rather than a public school where your on your own.

If money and location are not an issue, wouldnt you rather go to the school which cared for and helped out its students more?

 

[ChemGrad08]

I wanted to comment on Cash's point of view. I went to a lesser known school and currently TA at an ivy. I don't think it's that much easier to get A's at the lesser known school than it is at the ivy. It is true that the students at the ivy are tested on more information than those at my undergrad. But because everything is based on the curve a 60% often equals an A whereas at my undergrad it was a 90% that equaled an A (or 94 depending on the class). And if no one got an A that semester then that's how it goes (my biochem class of 30 had only one A). So while you're presented with more information than other schools I don't think that necessarily makes your life more difficult. I guess your other argument would be that the competition is harder but honestly I just don't see it, there are smart hardworking people everywhere you go.
The thing that might make your life harder is that it has been my experience that a lot of the profs at the ivy are terrible teachers and the classes are much bigger, but that affects everyone in the class equally so it shouldn't be a huge deal.

 

[redbull928]

Interesting, considering you're not at med school yet. From what I hear, med school is even more competitve than your undergrad in terms of grading. Well, makes total sense since your classmates at the med school are top x% of the applicants. I don't know about your being a better student than a lot of people because med students tend to already be the brightest students.

I get what you're saying. Not to sound cocky, but I'm pretty certain if I get into Med school I will be so much more prepared for it, won't have trouble adjusting, and will just be a better student than a lot of people. The only thing is, getting in is so much harder when you're grades aren't as good as other people at not as challenging schools

 

[bcat85]

I get what you're saying. Not to sound cocky, but I'm pretty certain if I get into Med school I will be so much more prepared for it, won't have trouble adjusting, and will just be a better student than a lot of people. The only thing is, getting in is so much harder when you're grades aren't as good as other people at not as challenging schools

I have met with several ivy-league grads and none of them are that much more impressive then the smart people I know who went to podunk state. While you may be right that you may know more when you get to medical school, its somewhat akin to saying you will be a better major league baseball player because you played one more year of high school baseball. It may be true, but you're stepping into a whole new level of competition.

I don't think people should knock Ivy leaguers though. I mean I think it would be sweet to have a degree from harvard, but I personally wasn't willing to pay the extra 150k to get it when I could have a 4-year degree from a good liberal arts college for free. I really worked it out and I decided it wasn't THAT big of difference.

 

[LucidSplash]

For bigger name schools, medical schools have a rough idea of which ones practice grade inflation vs. deflation. But it really doesn't play THAT big a role; you might get some extra consideration for attending a school known for grade deflation if it comes down to a close decision, but you will not get interviewed over another student with a better GPA solely on the basis of presumed grade deflation.

I went to a Little Ivy and for me, a SLAC was the best decision I could have made. Grade deflation or not, I received a good education. I chose to go there over an Ivy and I think I made the best choice. But all that had fairly little to do with medical school admissions.

 

[Turtlespeed]

So residency is based more on board scores than what school you went to?

 

[Perrotfish]

Ivy league schools help a great deal if you want to do research, significantly less if you want to practice. The thing is that medicine is a very standardized tested profession, so you have a lot of opportunities to prove that you're an Ivy League level student without actually going to the Ivy league.

That being said, I think you might have it backwards in terms of Ivys being a waste of money. Med schools are very expensive all around, and the Ivys have much more financial aid than other medical schools. Other than your state schools, your best financial deal may end up being at the ivy.

 

[flip26]

So residency is based more on board scores than what school you went to?

This question has been sharply debated on SDN...do some searches.

Having said that, my belief is that where you went to med school is NOT one of the top factors in residency selection...but you will get lots of people here who adamantly believe it is extremely important...

 

[UTAPlaya10]

This is any awesome thread and I want to thank the OP for starting up.

I personally would like to go to a big name school but I really haven't visited enough to even know if I'd be comfortable there and that's very important. I really like most of the responses to this thread. I think everyone here knows that the MD and DO schools in the United States train their doctors VERY WELL (almost every school has a 90th percentile passing rate on their USMLE Step 1s). So in all actuality, it doesn't really matter.

The only reason why I believe most people would pick a big name school over another school is because of the prestige or having the persona of establishment. When someone tells you their going to Harvard Medical School, a name that is recognizable among most people, you most likely get the feeling like "Wow, this guy has got what it takes, he's going to be a great doctor." This response might not come from a school that is not as well known as Harvard.

But of course, my example can be flawed in many ways because only the smart informed students on this forum know about the really good medical schools like Mount Sinai, George Washington in St. Louis, etc. These are not as well known to the public so you may not really get that effect even though these schools are amazing.

All and all, if you're going to an MD or DO school in the United States, and you work your butt off from the word go, I believe that you will be just as good as any doctor that's come out of Harvard or Johns Hopkins no matter where you go. It is more about the person but medical school is filled with people that are going to be great. That's why it's so hard to get in.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

So a few thoughts on this perennial issue...

1. Someone is always going to chime in and say, "I think the faculty at my small, unknown school are just as good as those at Harvard." This is probably wrong almost across the board and espeically wrong for medicine. A few exceptions do not make the rule, most faculty at top schools are there for a reason.

2. It's impossible to ask this question w/o knowing what you want to do with you life. An FP from a community program practicing in a small midwestern city is going to look back and say, "it doesn't matter where you go." The chair of ENT at Bigtime U in major East Coast city knows that pedigree is incredibly important.

 

[URHere]

I think there are many reasons why where you go to medical schools matter, but not all of them are related to a school's "ivy" status.

1) While the material covered in all medical schools is practically the same, schools vary on how they teach it. Do you like attending lecture or watching lectures that have been recorded in your own time, do you like PBL or not? You need to find a school that has a teaching style you can appreciate, and that has very little to do with whether or not a school is a top 20 school.

2) Clinical and research exposure is one area where name does actually matter. Are you interested in observing rare, top-notch surgical procedures? Chances are, you won't be seeing as many of these outside of the big name schools. Are you interested in doing research in big name power labs? A lot of these happen to be at the big name schools too.

3) The reputation of a school is also important for networking. Everyone comes out of school with some sort of network of attendings, PIs, etc, but not all of these people are well known. While it's debatable how much this would actually help you in the long run, I think there is some merit to making connections with some big name people.

Overall, name helps with many things that are secondary to medical education like observing amazing procedures and getting to work with amazing people, but at the end of the day, the USMLE scores are still most important for landing that coveted residency. The best shot you have at a high score is to find a school that matches your learning style and has an environment where you feel comfortable. If that school happens to be top 20, great. If that school that fits you best isn't top 20, I think you would be crazy to turn it down for a big name that has an atmosphere and teaching style less suited to you.

 

[Law2Doc]

This question has been sharply debated on SDN...do some searches.

Having said that, my belief is that where you went to med school is NOT one of the top factors in residency selection...but you will get lots of people here who adamantly believe it is extremely important...

It's not "sharply debated" at all. I know of no one who doesn't think that board scores are not more important than med school pedigree. IMHO, the top 4 factors in securing your dream residency are connections, Step 1 score, rotation grades/evals (including away rotations), and research. The next few factors include things like AOA, basic science year grades and rank, LORs. I'd put school pedigree below all of these. This is, of course my opinion, and some people would rank some things differently (particularly for residencies that don't care as much about research). But I know of nobody who would put school name over Step 1.

Just one correction (pet peave) to the above discussion -- "Ivy league" carries no meaning in med school. Not all Ivy league schools have med schools (eg Princeton), and two of the Ivy league schools have med schools that some folks wouldn't consider top schools based on USNews' research ranking (Brown and Dartmouth are both outside of the top 30). There are many "top schools" that aren't a member of the Ivy League so this term shouldn't be used for top schools at the med school level.

 

[DocSoMa]

Personally, I don't think it really matters where you go. Yes, going to a top-ranked medical school will look good on your application for residency (yay for a bonus), but if you're a borderline student who barely passed, the big impression will quickly lose its appeal. I've talked to physicians who work at Mayo and Hopkins, and it's interesting how different their backgrounds are. You've got the physician who went to Harvard for undergrad, Cornell for medical school, Hopkins for residency. But you've also got the physician who went to X State University, a medical school that many have not heard of, and so on. The important thing is that they both ended up at the same prestigious institution. Where you go does not guarantee the caliber of education you receive - it's what YOU make out of it.

 

[Law2Doc]

So a few thoughts on this perennial issue...

1. Someone is always going to chime in and say, "I think the faculty at my small, unknown school are just as good as those at Harvard." This is probably wrong almost across the board and espeically wrong for medicine. A few exceptions do not make the rule, most faculty at top schools are there for a reason.

Well, I think most of us lack enough of a frame of reference to compare faculty across different med schools, since you can only attend one. However it is probably true that (1) the biggest name faculty will be more accessible at the smaller schools than the big name ones, (2) big name faculty at Harvard and other high ranking places will have a bigger focus on research which SOMETIMES results in a smaller interest in teaching, (3) folks at lesser known schools will SOMETIMES be more likely to mentor and work the phones to help med students line of residencies.

You have to bear in mind that big name faculty aren't primarily teachers. They are researchers and clinicians who have been asked to also teach. The number of faculty at any med school who consider their primary job to be a professor is minimal and tends to mostly be anatomists and physiologists. (this is a big over-generalization, but you get my point) The rest will be focused on bringing in big research grant money, or doing groundbreaking procedures. Teaching is often an aside. Some folks are great at doing both, but many won't. A school where folks don't have the big research dollars or groundbreaking clinical work to divert them thus may be more focused on teaching. I don't know first-hand if this is true, but it stands to reason. Will the big name surgeon at a top school who is chair of the department take the time to sit down with as many students to help them line up residencies as the less reknown surgeon at a smaller school? Perhaps not. Who knows. But an argument can be made that at the smaller schools faculty see students as their primary job whereas at the bigger name places the students are just one more part of their job (sometimes even a chore, diverting them from what they are really interested in).

 

[Craig McDermott]

(2) big name faculty at Harvard and other high ranking places will have a bigger focus on research which SOMETIMES results in a smaller interest in teaching, (3) folks at lesser known schools will SOMETIMES be more likely to mentor and work the phones to help med students line of residencies.

You have to bear in mind that big name faculty aren't primarily teachers. They are researchers and clinicians who have been asked to also teach.

Isn't the primary factor in the school's "big name" how much research it puts out?

 

[Law2Doc]

Isn't the primary factor in the school's "big name" how much research it puts out?

Yeah, that's my point. If you bread and butter is research, and you look at teaching as something you have to do on top of that, then you may not put the same effort into it as someone whose job description puts the reverse emphasis.

 

[RoadRunner17]

This is any awesome thread and I want to thank the OP for starting up.

I personally would like to go to a big name school but I really haven't visited enough to even know if I'd be comfortable there and that's very important. I really like most of the responses to this thread. I think everyone here knows that the MD and DO schools in the United States train their doctors VERY WELL (almost every school has a 90th percentile passing rate on their USMLE Step 1s). So in all actuality, it doesn't really matter.

The only reason why I believe most people would pick a big name school over another school is because of the prestige or having the persona of establishment. When someone tells you their going to Harvard Medical School, a name that is recognizable among most people, you most likely get the feeling like "Wow, this guy has got what it takes, he's going to be a great doctor." This response might not come from a school that is not as well known as Harvard.

But of course, my example can be flawed in many ways because only the smart informed students on this forum know about the really good medical schools like Mount Sinai, George Washington in St. Louis, etc. These are not as well known to the public so you may not really get that effect even though these schools are amazing.

All and all, if you're going to an MD or DO school in the United States, and you work your butt off from the word go, I believe that you will be just as good as any doctor that's come out of Harvard or Johns Hopkins no matter where you go. It is more about the person but medical school is filled with people that are going to be great. That's why it's so hard to get in.

Not to nitpick. But how does every school have a 90 percentile passing rate? And, what school is called George Washington in St. Louis?

Back onto topic.. I personally believe that the 'cachet' in a name does mean something much of the time. It means something to you, right? In academic medicine, it will be important because a lot of academic medicine revolves around research and getting yourself out there. Networking and connection opportunities are bigger at the more 'prestigious' academic institutions, especially with the tenure track.

However, I think that it tends to be important for where you are NOW, rather than where you were. 10 years after graduating from undergrad, few will care if you want to Harvard for undergrad.. only a few more will care what medical school you went to. But, people will tend to care what academic teaching hospital you are at, and your accomplishments there. I feel that it is a step-wise process, if that makes sense. Maximize your opportunities at every step.

If you're not going into academic medicine or doing any research, then your success will depend solely on you, particularly if you're going into a private practice. At that point, nobody will care what medical school you went to, as long as you make patients feel well-cared for.

Simplistic view, I know there is much more to it, but I don't think its worth debating that much on SDN.. it's already been hashed and rehashed, over and over again. Go for the best fit and don't look back.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Does it matter where you go??

PPl like they think it does, thats why you see ppl apply to only the top 20 schools, but I tend to believe you control your own education.

 

[hopeful2007]

What if someone has great Step 1 scores, but is graduating from a Caribbean school? If they have the numbers, grades, LORs, could they still be discriminated against?

Basically, I have a 31 MCAT, 3.6 science, and 3.3 OA, and St. George's is the only bite I've gotten. Plus, I might be eligible for a scholarship. So given the opportunity to save $$, live in the UK and Caribbean, and do rotations in NYC, I think I definitely could turn down an American school if a wait list comes through. Wouldn't want to be fouling up the rest of my career though.

I know FMGs have a negative stigma, but USMLE board scores speak for themselves.

 

[LucidSplash]

What if someone has great Step 1 scores, but is graduating from a Caribbean school? If they have the numbers, grades, LORs, could they still be discriminated against?

Basically, I have a 31 MCAT, 3.6 science, and 3.3 OA, and St. George's is the only bite I've gotten. Plus, I might be eligible for a scholarship. So given the opportunity to save $$, live in the UK and Caribbean, and do rotations in NYC, I think I definitely could turn down an American school if a wait list comes through. Wouldn't want to be fouling up the rest of my career though.

I know FMGs have a negative stigma, but USMLE board scores speak for themselves.

You should review the AAMC's Reports on Match Outcomes. I'm not commenting one way or the other, just saying that the data might allow you to make a more fully-informed decision one way or the other.

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...ion=Product.displayForm&prd_id=159&prv_id=189 (2005)
https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...1&cftoken=E925C977-7377-4501-8277C6B42536BE3F (2007)

 

[cashmoney805]

You should review the AAMC's Reports on Match Outcomes. I'm not commenting one way or the other, just saying that the data might allow you to make a more fully-informed decision one way or the other.

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...ion=Product.displayForm&prd_id=159&prv_id=189 (2005)
https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...1&cftoken=E925C977-7377-4501-8277C6B42536BE3F (2007)

a little off topic, but what are Match Outcomes?

 

[flip26]

It's not "sharply debated" at all. I know of no one who doesn't think that board scores are not more important than med school pedigree. IMHO, the top 4 factors in securing your dream residency are connections, Step 1 score, rotation grades/evals (including away rotations), and research. The next few factors include things like AOA, basic science year grades and rank, LORs. I'd put school pedigree below all of these. This is, of course my opinion, and some people would rank some things differently (particularly for residencies that don't care as much about research). But I know of nobody who would put school name over Step 1.

You are kidding, right? It gets beaten to death in multiple threads every few months, with people all over the map on what is most important, and that is what I call a "debate."

 

[LucidSplash]

a little off topic, but what are Match Outcomes?

How the match plays out. How people score on Step 1, do research, are US grads or FMGs, etc, affects match success, by specialty.

 

[LucidSplash]

You are kidding, right? It gets beaten to death in multiple threads every few months, with people all over the map on what is most important, and that is what I call a "debate."

I think if you look at the composition of those threads, the topic is only a "debate" among pre-meds. The overwhelming majority of medical students, residents, and attendings are in agreement that where you get your degree from is rather far down on the list of importance after Step 1 score, research, etc.

 

[flip26]

I think if you look at the composition of those threads, the topic is only a "debate" among pre-meds. The overwhelming majority of medical students, residents, and attendings are in agreement that where you get your degree from is rather far down on the list of importance after Step 1 score, research, etc.

And I agree with that, but it is still nonetheless hotly debated, to death, on SDN...lots of things on SDN that should be "no brainers" get debated to death...

 

[Law2Doc]

You are kidding, right? It gets beaten to death in multiple threads every few months, with people all over the map on what is most important, and that is what I call a "debate."

Um no. The question is school pedigree/rank important is debated in the multiple threads you describe. The question of is it as important as board scores is actually not debated because pretty much everyone agrees on that point in all the threads I have seen.

But to the extent someone doesn't agree, I would tend to agree with LucidSplash that it's probably someone who hasn't gotten into med school yet talking out of an atypical orifice.

 

[flip26]

Um no. The question is school pedigree/rank important is debated in the multiple threads you describe. The question of is it as important as board scores is actually not debated because pretty much everyone agrees on that point in all the threads I have seen.

But to the extent someone doesn't agree, I would tend to agree with LucidSplash that it's probably someone who hasn't gotten into med school yet talking out of an atypical orifice.

But not everyone agrees, and not even every med student or resident who should know better agrees...without digging up the thread from a few months ago, a recent UCSD Med grad argued that where you go to med school has a great deal of bearing on where you will get interviews, thus where you will get residencies...and there have been others...

Not sure why you are nitpicking the point that I was making - the question asked by the title of the thread is the subject of hot debate every few months - as is the question of the name of your med school relative to the other factors in residency selection - and I suggested he read those threads for himself.