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I recently graduate in May and have an interview with Lenscrafters in upstate New York. What salary should i expect?
I recently graduate in May and have an interview with Lenscrafters in upstate New York. What salary should i expect?
that's all well and good, but what $ are we talking????? per year if i work full time year round
There's really no answer to your question. It all depends on how many hours you work and your hourly rate. If you work 40 hours per week, you might do ok. If you don't get that many hours because they're frequently cut against your will, you won't. If it's a franchise location, it depends on how much the owner is willing to pay you. There's no specific answer for you.
Does anyone that worked for LensCrafters know if you have to pay rent to "sub-lease"? And if Eyeexam of California (or whatever state) gives benefits like Health or Dental insurance?
thanks.
When you lease, you enter into a long term lease agreement with them. No health or dental insurance.
If you work for Eyeexam of California, no health or dental insurance.
Around how much does it cost to lease the space from Lenscrafters? Are you responsible for insurance billing or do they make the sales associates do that?
Don't know. Never done it. Some states it's a flat amount. Some it's a percentage of what you bring in. Yes, generally you are responsible for all billing and collection of fees or you are responsible for hiring someone to do it.
So basically it's like having your own private practice, you're responsible for everything, Lenscrafters just finds the patients for you? Do you get a percentage of any of the glasses/contacts sold?
So basically it's like having your own private practice, you're responsible for everything.
In Lenscrafters you are not truly independent. Whether you want to or not, you will be expected to sell optical goods for the corporation, "selling from the chair" is the common slang for it. If you are not selling enough product, your "lease" will be termed with what is most likely a 30 day out clause, any reason, anytime they want. Even for someone who could care less about their independence, that is still zero job security. You want to spend time with the nice ole granny explaining whats wrong with the "diabetes in her eye", and less time convincing her that she needs the latest gucci frame with digital PALS, AR, and transitions? Not if you want to keep your job (cough, cough I mean "lease" )
That sounds decidely unlike having your own private practice.
I meant so it's like having all the responsibility of having your own practice, having to pay rent, bill insurance, find employees..etc., yet you have a low salary determined by Lenscrafters....
So they can fire you at any time, but you can't quit while you're on a contract? And sometimes there's a clause in the contract that you can't practice in the nearby area after you work with them?
In the scenario where you lease space, you are not on salary from Lenscrafters. They do not determine salaries. You essentially eat what you kill. If you see lots of patients, you can make good money. If you see two patients a day, you will be pretty miserable.
In general, they can terminate you with as little as 30 days notice for any reason or no reason. In general, if YOU want to terminate the lease you have to give them 90 days.
As far as non compete agreements, they are pretty standard but generally unenforceable in most states.
nice metaphor lol
So do you get the keep the entire cost of the vision exam, minus whatever insurance discounts they have? How many patients would you estimate you need to see a day to make a good living?
Depends. Some locations you hire your own staff. Others, they provide the staff but in those cases the lease payment is usually higher. You have to pay for the cost of your office supplies etc.
As to how many patients you have to see to make a good living? Obviously....it depends. First...what do you consider a "good" living? Second....how much do you charge for an exam? How many patients can you/they attract?
Maybe 85-95k a year to live comfortably. I thought LensCrafters set the prices of the exam fees. I feel like I could bring in a lot of people... I guess I'm realizing that I have absolutely NO business experience, being an independent contractor seems like it's going to be really tough the first years out of school :/
I would assume these commercial locations like Walmart, Costco, Lenscrafters etc will have enough foot traffic that there would be enough patients.
This assumption will get you in a lot of hot water. I can't tell you how many grads get suckered into a new Walmart or Sam's Club lease, only to find out that they are stuck seeing 10 patients per week. High volume commercial leases are not easy to come by.
Right, the one good thing about CA is that our Costcos and walmarts are insanely crowded. Is coding and billing insurance really hard, and do they teach you how to do that kind of stuff in school? I'm not really sure how I'm going to learn how to run my own business and employees, even at a commercial place.
Right, the one good thing about CA is that our Costcos and walmarts are insanely crowded. Is coding and billing insurance really hard, and do they teach you how to do that kind of stuff in school? I'm not really sure how I'm going to learn how to run my own business and employees, even at a commercial place.
I don't know much about Walmarts, but Costco has loooooooooong wait lists to get a lease, especially in CA. I have two friends who lease Costco spaces in "good" stores in northern CA. One waited 7 years to get her lease, the other five. I also know a couple of Costco docs in other states who do "ok," but they have to supplement their income working as independent contractors since they don't get enough traffic at their Costco.
There's really not any simple way out of the oversupply issue - it's going to be there no matter where you go. It's part of the profession now. Even those seeking government positions will deal with it indirectly.
Ya it's crazy how my freshmen year in college Pharmacy and Optometry seemed like they had really great outlooks, and now they're both over-saturated. I'm not sure what field isn't over-saturated besides Physicians and Nurses. If only Optometrists were able to have unions the same way nurses do haha.
Do you guys have any recommendations on how to pick up good business skills while in Optometry school?
What if you practice in a state where OD can work as an employee for a CP. What type of patients will they let you see, in terms of insurance? How about medicare, medicaid patients ? When you have to bill vision and medical plans you will collect the revenue for the exams, on top of your salary, right?
Working as an employee is probably the worst way to go corporate. They get their teeth into you and basically dictate how to do your job, either actively or passively. Luxottica has been trying to gain more and more control over it's employed doctors. I'm not really sure why they feel they need to, they have plenty of control already, some of which is not legal, in my opinion.
As far as the type of patients, you're not going to be billing much in the way of medical in a corporate setting. They don't have any interest in revenue from medical visits; they want to sell materials - that's their reason for existence. The doc is just there to keep things legit by signing the spectacle Rx. If an Rx were not needed, you'd not see many ODs in corporate settings. That day may come in the not-too-distant future. This is one of the great ironies of the profession right now. We're out there talking up the fact that "we're producing the most highly-trained ODs ever," and yet the vast majority of them will be signing Rx's for a living and not using much of their training once they graduate.
In any event, you absolutely do not collect exam fees on top of your salary. If you're employed, you get your salary plus a bonus if you negotiate one into your contract. You'll be told when to show up, when to take lunch, when to leave, how long to spend with each patient, what to say to each patient, what to fit on patients, etc, etc. You may think you have control and they'll certainly tell you that during your interview, but be sure to talk to a FT employed doc or two before you agree to work for a Luxottica brand or any other commercial position. It's not what it seems on paper.
There are some good commercial leases out there. The bad news? Thery're all taken and docs who have them don't just leave them around for the taking. If a commercial lease is open to a new grad, you can just about bet it's going to be a new, slow location that may or may not ever produce a sustainable volume. Since there's far more ODs than needed, it's a great setup for commercial organizations - they've got all the "fertilizer" they need to keep themselves growing at a cancerous pace.
Ya it's crazy how my freshmen year in college Pharmacy and Optometry seemed like they had really great outlooks, and now they're both over-saturated. I'm not sure what field isn't over-saturated besides Physicians and Nurses. If only Optometrists were able to have unions the same way nurses do haha.
Do you guys have any recommendations on how to pick up good business skills while in Optometry school?
I would read every practice management rag that you can get your hands on every month like Review of Optometry or Optometric Management.
But I would not read them so that you can learn "the secret" to success. There really is no secret. Read them to get ideas. You will find many articles that leave you saying "well, I don't really like that at all. I'm certainly not going to do it THAT way" and you'll find others that leave you thinking "wow....I never really thought of that. I like THAT way."
Also, interact with your faculty who do have private practices on the side. Ask them what mistakes they made. Ask them what they wish they did differntly. Ask them what they would suggest you do and why.
And again....do it not to find "the secret" but to get ideas and opinions so you can start to form your own.
Fair enough, but didn't you say if you are fine working in commercial setting you can do well, or something along those lines. Would you say it is easier to find a good commercial lease opportunity than a full time PP position?
....ft private practice positions are just about nonexistent. They're around, but the numbers are minuscule and the pay is usually low.
....... Ft private practice positions are just about nonexistent. They're around, but the numbers are minuscule and the pay is usually low.
When you lease, you enter into a long term lease agreement with them. No health or dental insurance.
If you work for Eyeexam of California, no health or dental insurance.
So the Optometrist I saw today at Lenscrafters said she was an employee of the company and gets benefits, how is that possible? I thought it was illegal? Maybe the Lenscrafters is privately owned?
Is this person in California? If so, I do not understand how that is possible. I am not completely familiar with the CA situation so perhaps it has changed but my understanding is that optometrists in CA were essentially employed by Eye Exam 2000 or whatever it's called and are paid a per diem rate. If she's getting health insurance, vacation etc. etc. then good for her!
Yeah it was in CA, maybe she was employeed before the new laws? She has been working for LensCrafters for 10 years. She seemed to not even know that ODs couldn't legally be employees 0_o I'm going to ask her again when I go for my follow-up next week so see what's up with that haha.
http://www.lenscrafters.com/eyeglasses/6/optometrists-eye-doctors-eye-care-from-lenscrafters
I would ask her what benefits she gets.
So I went back to LensCrafters for my follow-up appt. Saw a different OD and she told me the same thing: Optometrists that work for Lenscrafters in CA are EMPLOYEED by Eye-Exam of CA, so they get full BENEFITS, such as health and dental insurance and vacation time. They also do not need to worry about paying rent for the lease since they are not lease-holding doctors. So CA actually IS one of those states where ODs can be employeed by companies.
Wow. Go figure.
I still wouldn't work there. lol
This is getting to be more common. I guess as long as the "company" is OD or MD controlled this is legal. What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that if you saw the number of patients each day that these retail jobs require, you'd make a lot more money in your own practice.
That's fine. I'd rather make $90,000 in a private practice or better yet go to where my services are actually needed and not saturate myself like a lot of ODs like to do. Especially now with more females in the profession that enjoy being near big cities, I think the future is bright for adventurous people that don't have to be near a forever 21 or all of their family or a high class restaurant.
This is getting to be more common. I guess as long as the "company" is OD or MD controlled this is legal. What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that if you saw the number of patients each day that these retail jobs require, you'd make a lot more money in your own practice.
Well someday I'd like to have my own practice, but obviously you have to start somewhere. Most private practice associate positions are taken or non-existent, so starting off in a full-time position with benefits, even if it is "corporate" sounds good to me.
The ODs at Americas Best in my general area are required to see 8 exams an hour. You have any idea what that would be like? I'd rather work on an assembly line buildings cars.
Except a private practice wouldn't be able to bring in this many patients. At Lenscrafters the prices were very low, i ended up paying $45 with my AAA discount, even tho i was originally told it would be $95, so im not sure what happened with that haha. But ya before I got on these threads, I didn't even realize there were private practices, and I don't think the average person is going to go to some small in the woods doctor when there's a big shiny box right next door to them offering exams at half the price. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but that's the reality.
But ya before I got on these threads, I didn't even realize there were private practices.
You can't be serious.
horsehit, this may come as some surprise to you but there are ALOT of people who avoid malls like the plague (I'm one of them). I can think of nothing more depressing then going to "the mall" for anything (and I dont care how cheap it is), let alone an "eye exam"....puke..... Time for a reality check, lots and lots of corporate offices are dead with little to no volume. Their flagships stores end up carrying these stores until corporate finally decides to shut them down, often after taking losses for 10 years or more. Working in that setting is even more depressing, waiting as your skills wither with your income potential. Whereas PP is the holy grail of optometry, and is better in every single category. Hands down it isn't even close.