Dreading post-doc apps

[brain hugger]

A co-intern shared that he told a site during an interview that the site was his first choice. I didn't think we were allowed to do that. Are we?

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[DSMX]

A co-intern shared that he told a site during an interview that the site was his first choice. I didn't think we were allowed to do that. Are we?

It's risky, but allowed. It could backfire if the site has other applicants who they want slightly more, but can now place your co-intern a little lower on their list since the co-intern has already stated his or her commitment. Ha, I wonder though if that co-intern is telling all sites that.

 

[brain hugger]

It's risky, but allowed. It could backfire if the site has other applicants who they want slightly more, but can now place your co-intern a little lower on their list since the co-intern has already stated his or her commitment. Ha, I wonder though if that co-intern is telling all sites that.

I'm not sure! He keeps changing his mind on what his top choice is (!). It's one of the many reasons I was surprised he shared that. It's interesting that his doing this may actually hurt him! I've seen him bend the rules before. The dark side of my personality wants to not warn him and see how it all plays out but I guess I should probably let my good side win.

 

[DSMX]

I'm not sure! He keeps changing his mind on what his top choice is (!). It's one of the many reasons I was surprised he shared that. It's interesting that his doing this may actually hurt him! I've seen him bend the rules before. The dark side of my personality wants to not warn him and see how it all plays out but I guess I should probably let my good side win.

Oh that explains it. Well try not to get too involved yourself into his (or anyone else's) drama. But if you feel like you're succumbing to the dark side by not offering that recommendation or advice, well, do so then. Based on the evidence you've described about him, it doesn't appear he would accept it anyways. Ha. And then you are still balanced with the force. Best of both worlds!

 

[psych7259]

Also, would having a non-match postdoc at a reputable hospital/group practice (compared to a formal postdoc) affect one's ability to have a VA staff position down the road?

I was curious about this as well from a non-neuro perspective. I have several years of VA training and hoping to match to a VA internship next year. I'm considering the pros and cons of stepping outside the VA for postdoc and going back in at a later date. I have found several non-VA postdocs that would offer amazing training experiences in my area.

 

[foreverbull]

VAs tend to hire staff psychologists right out of a VA postdoc. A postdoc outside the VA could make it harder to get hired later (in my area, a non-VA postdoc excludes you from being hired for at least 2 years after licensure, but this varies by region). For folks who are planning a VA career, it's safer to stick with VA postdocs.

It's easier to get work outside of a VA with VA experience than work at a VA with outside experience as a postdoc, generally. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but it's riskier to do an outside postdoc and hope to get back into the system.

 

[erg923]

VAs tend to hire staff psychologists right out of a VA postdoc. A postdoc outside the VA could make it harder to get hired later (in my area, a non-VA postdoc excludes you from being hired for at least 2 years after licensure, but this varies by region). For folks who are planning a VA career, it's safer to stick with VA postdocs.

It's easier to get work outside of a VA with VA experience than work at a VA withing so outside experience as a postdoc, generally. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but it's riskier to do an outside postdoc and hope to get back into the system.

Why on earth would this be? Never heard of such a thing, and its a stupid thing on the face of it.

Really, all this stuff about the VA being so insular is new too me, and I prac in one VA, interned in another, and was a staff psychologist at another for over 5 years.

 

[WisNeuro]

Why on earth would this be? Never heard of such a thing, and its a stupid thing on the face of it.

Really, all this stuff about the VA be insular is new too me, and I prac in one VA, interned in another, and was a staff psychologist at another for over 5 years.

I have been at 4 different VAs for training/staff positions. All of them definitely prioritize VA people over non-VA people in hiring.

 

[foreverbull]

Why on earth would this be? Never heard of such a thing, and its a stupid thing on the face of it.

Really, all this stuff about the VA be insular is new too me, and I prac in one VA, interned in another, and was a staff psychologist at another for over 5 years.

It's the law of supply and demand in my area, I'd guess. If you do a postdoc somewhere else, you need to have more licensed experience under your belt before the VA will even consider you. We have just 3 main VAs in a huge metro area with 8 million people, and VAs pay better, so they can be pickier with the many applicants they get.
I did a practicum in a VA, but my app/experience didn't even get me in the door for an interview at one of the VAs here. Meanwhile, colleagues who did VA internships and postdocs were hired as staff psychologists right out of postdoc.

 

[DSMX]

As others have said, it's definitely supply and demand. If you are in an area where VA jobs are competitive, then VA postdocs absolutely have priority.

 

[brain hugger]

What if you have 2+ years of training at a VA (prac and internship) but did a non-VA postdoc?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

What if you have 2+ years of training at a VA (prac and internship) but did a non-VA postdoc?

Tough to say, and may depend on the individual VA in question. Past experience with the VA will help, but being a current VA postdoc will likely get you "bonus points."

 

[erg923]

I have been at 4 different VAs for training/staff positions. All of them definitely prioritize VA people over non-VA people in hiring.

I have seen the "leg up" phenomenon at work of course, but not the 2 years thing foreverbull was saying.

 

[kathygeiss]

Now that I've accepted a postdoc, I'm looking into state licensure requirements - anyone else feel like these might as well be written in Greek?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Now that I've accepted a postdoc, I'm looking into state licensure requirements - anyone else feel like these might as well be written in Greek?

Some of them can definitely be confusing. I'd recommend contacting the board directly with any questions you have. Although be forewarned--some boards are super helpful while others are...decidedly less so.

 

[kathygeiss]

Thanks for the help!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I’ve gone through licensure in three different states and each had their quirks. Level of helpful ranged from “you are stranded on a desert island with no food or water” to “passing indifference, akin to choosing 9 out of 12 in a fantasy football draft”. The licensure process is generally a frustrating experience.

 

[erg923]

Now that I've accepted a postdoc, I'm looking into state licensure requirements - anyone else feel like these might as well be written in Greek?

Current job requires eventually becoming licensed in multiple states due to specific state business contracts, even though I don't actually practice in these places. Most of my attempts for clarity, questions, or a jump start have been met with "check our website."

It's really a sorry state of variability out there, combined with poor/unclear wording and redundant forms.

 

[ellenew]

I think for me, the hardest part is the competition against people who are interns at current sites, particularly when you know that many sites tend to chose their own interns.

THIS.

 

[anxiety_embodied]

THIS.

Agreed! I just killed it at an interview for my top site but I'm worried that in the end they'll give the position to their current intern. Feeling super nervous right now.

 

[futurehopefully]

Agreed! I just killed it at an interview for my top site but I'm worried that in the end they'll give the position to their current intern. Feeling super nervous right now.

I feel so validated right now! All of the sites I interviewed at almost flat out told me that they tend to take their interns, so I feel like the competitiveness of my CV doesn't even matter...

 

[ellenew]

I feel so validated right now! All of the sites I interviewed at almost flat out told me that they tend to take their interns, so I feel like the competitiveness of my CV doesn't even matter...

Several of the sites I interviewed at told me the same thing.

 

[ellenew]

Agreed! I just killed it at an interview for my top site but I'm worried that in the end they'll give the position to their current intern. Feeling super nervous right now.

Yep. Some of my sites told me directly they give preference to their interns who are applying.

 

[Parabolas]

I guess I just lucked out - not a single one of the sites I interviewed with take interns in the first place!

 

[futurehopefully]

I think for me, the hardest part is the competition against people who are interns at current sites, particularly when you know that many sites tend to chose their own interns.

So...in an unexpected turn of events, an informal postdoc opened up pretty recently that's more in line with what I'm looking for than the formal postdocs I applied to. I accepted it last week. Thanks for letting me vent and for the validation, and good luck to all of you on Monday!

 

[PsychCaRIH]

I would say the opposite - I applied to 9 and got 8 interviews (and am told I would have been interviewed by the 9th if they hadn't made an agreement with an internal candidate). The field for post doc applicants is smaller so I think there is a better likelihood of getting interviews overall, even in big cities. I know this is a wonderful problem to have, but I find myself wishing I had narrowed things down a bit before deciding to apply to all of them.

same. applied to 12 in sf Bay Area and got 11 interviews.

 

[foreverbull]

same. applied to 12 in sf Bay Area and got 11 interviews.

Are you from California and/or did your internship there?

 

[PsychCaRIH]

Are you from California and/or did your internship there?

I'm from California, but interned in Oregon.

 

[psychrat]

Good luck tomorrow! Please do not panic if you do not hear from your #1 site early in the morning. I did not receive an email until lunch time. Sometimes it takes them some time to wait for people holding offers to move down on their list. Anyway, sending positive thoughts your way.

 

[ctpsy11]

Anyone else struggling to choose their first vs second rankings still? I know we’d be so lucky if given the option, but it’s been really hard to weigh the different factors....

 

[phdpedpsy]

Is there a postdoc "phase II" thread? Already bracing myself for the worst!

 

[NeuroLady]

Is there a postdoc "phase II" thread? Already bracing myself for the worst!

Hang in there! I've been shockingly calm ... until now.

 

[NeuroLady]

Anyone else struggling to choose their first vs second rankings still? I know we’d be so lucky if given the option, but it’s been really hard to weigh the different factors....

I'm questioning my ranking but I'm pretty sure it's just nerves. I've come back to the same ranking multiple times and I keep reminding myself that it's perfect [for me].

 

[Lotus143]

Good luck tomorrow! Please do not panic if you do not hear from your #1 site early in the morning. I did not receive an email until lunch time. Sometimes it takes them some time to wait for people holding offers to move down on their list. Anyway, sending positive thoughts your way.

But what if you’re waiting for your #1 with a time-limited offer from another site? Some sites said ahead of time they will only hold offers for 4 hours.

 

[NeuroLady]

But what if you’re waiting for your #1 with a time-limited offer from another site? Some sites said ahead of time they will only hold offers for 4 hours.

Request a reciprocal offer?

 

[Lotus143]

Request a reciprocal offer?

Well yes of course. But sometimes they have to wait for their higher ranked applicants (who put them on hold for a higher ranked site) and can’t give you a reciprocal offer at the moment. I think the wisest choice would be to accept the lower-ranked offer within the very last time expiration. I hate the cascading effect of all this. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I actually miss the match process of internship. Less chaotic.

 

[emily621]

Well yes of course. But sometimes they have to wait for their higher ranked applicants (who put them on hold for a higher ranked site) and can’t give you a reciprocal offer at the moment. I think the wisest choice would be to accept the lower-ranked offer within the very last time expiration. I hate the cascading effect of all this. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I actually miss the match process of internship. Less chaotic.

Yeah that's currently happening to me right now. I have two more hours to hold my second choice and if my first choice can't give me an offer by then, then I'll accept at my 2nd choice. I completely agree about missing the match. This has been a clusterf**k of a morning

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Good luck all.

 

[PsychCaRIH]

Well yes of course. But sometimes they have to wait for their higher ranked applicants (who put them on hold for a higher ranked site) and can’t give you a reciprocal offer at the moment. I think the wisest choice would be to accept the lower-ranked offer within the very last time expiration. I hate the cascading effect of all this. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I actually miss the match process of internship. Less chaotic.

I had the cascade this am... it was a lot but ended up very happy. Hope everyone else is happy with their match.