Drug Screening on Matriculation

[ConfusedAcceptee]

Hello all,

I was recently accepted to medical school (MD-PhD program specifically) and upon receiving my acceptance a bit over a week ago, my family and friends threw a huge party for me since I was the only one they know to even pursuit med school.
Let's just say that at one point during the party there were federally illegal substances of the green variety that were consumed.
When my acceptance letter came in the mail, they said that the week of matriculation there will be a drug screen done on new students and that failure to pass would result in expulsion.

I don't ever plan on consuming those kind of substances again, so I was feeling pretty safe that by the time I matriculate (June-ish), any cheek swab or urine test would come out negative. However, I recently learned some federal agencies conduct hair follicle tests that can go back 6 months. In short, am I screwed?

I was hoping to get some feedback from users who have recently matriculated and can relay what the screening process is like so I know whether to expect such a thorough test.

Thank you!

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[Ismet]

What are you going to do about it, withdraw your acceptance?

Relax, it's probably a UDS. No more drugs.

 

[el_duderino]

This ought to be good.

 

[Psyche Estrelle]

Relax. No more drugs. Relax. If your use is TRULY a one time thing you'll be fine. Relax.

I've never seen hair used for tests in the healthcare industry, only urine. You could consider shaving all of your body hair in February-ish if you're paranoid. (You may want to research growth rates to make sure your timing is accurate) Problem solved

 

[NoDakDok]

Drug screening medical school matriculants, that's a rare one. They probably sent that email out as a warning to make sure you're clean for the test. I've never actually heard of anyone getting a hair follicle drug test for employment. I would expect you're going to receive a UDS, so you'll be fine, just (obviously) stop smoking the reefer.

 

[FFH]

I'd assume it wasn't U of Colorado that you are worried about, was it?

 

[ski89]

Troll


Sent from my iPhone

 

[EvenStevens]

watch Blue Mountain State, you'll learn the ways..

 

[NickNaylor]

Highly unlikely that schools will force you to do a hair follicle test. They're much more expensive than the standard urine tox screen. Perhaps once you get onto the wards I can imagine it, but not as a standard screening test prior to matriculation.

Otherwise, I'd recommend buying a few razors and working on your swimming technique...

 

[qwopery]

Do most schools do a standard drug test for incoming med students?

 

[NoDakDok]

Do most schools do a standard drug test for incoming med students?

No.

If you do get drug tested it usually isn't until your clinical years where certain wards may require it.

 

[Don'tStopMeNow]

Option 1) Relax and accept it probably won't test hair follicles

But, we are all a little neurotic so you may as well think about these tonight:

Option 2) Shave your entire body just to be safe.

Option 3) Travel to Colorado to legally buy said substances, then keep records to contest it

Option 4) Drop out of the medical system in fear

Option 5) Hire a very passable body double and send him in your place (with relevant identification)

Option 6) Get a high powered lawyer to bring a case to court regarding your privacy rights

Option 7) Do more weed in the hopes that you are able to come up with an option 8-10



I mean, you could mix and match too!

 

[MedBrah 19]

I wonder if you could still get in trouble for weed even though it's completely legal in certain parts of the country. I don't see how it's fair to get students in trouble when they can travel to colorado and smoke legally.

 

[organdonor]

I think we were told we could get randomly tested. I never heard of any student being tested though. As a resident we have. Always urine drug screen.

 

[Abstractions]

I think we were told we could get randomly tested. I never heard of any student being tested though. As a resident we have. Always urine drug screen.

It depends on the school, I was recently accepted to a school that requires all students to take a urine test during orientation like the OP. They actually provided a hilarious document that detailed how long various compounds are detectable via the urine test (so that you really have no excuse to not pass haha).

 

[tiedyeddog]

It will likely be a urine test. Don't do drugs.

 

[Primo Beats]

No caffeine er EtOH either

 

[Mad Jack]

I wonder if you could still get in trouble for weed even though it's completely legal in certain parts of the country. I don't see how it's fair to get students in trouble when they can travel to colorado and smoke legally.

Yep. Your employer or school can set whatever terms they want. Despite its legality in some jurisdictions, many hospital systems prohibit their employees from using marijuana due to performance concerns. Hell, there's even moves to ban tobacco smokers from employment at many hospitals, and University of Michigan screens you for tobacco use as an incoming med student.

Also op, hair follicle tests are extremely expensive. No one uses them aside from certain positions where security is critical or liability is ultra high for the one doing the hiring.

 

[Promethean]

DO NOT SHAVE YOUR ENTIRE BODY TO AVOID A HAIR TEST.

A sudden desire to denude is an admission of guilt and will get you subjected to serious scrutiny.

THC can linger longer than many other drugs, but it is still out in just a few weeks, even in the heaviest users. If you were getting high every day, and had a lot of body fat for the the metabolites to hide in, then it could be 6 weeks or so before all traces were gone. If you got high once, I would expect that you wouldn't test positive after 2-3 weeks.

Also, hair tests aren't magic. Some substances are more discoverable via hair testing than others. Hair testing is really most useful for detecting alcohol abuse, and it is almost worthless with many street drugs. A one time weed adventure isn't going to show up in your hair, other than by the smell of the smoke, and that should be resolved by a good shower.

So, yeah, basically chill. And no more drugs. The potential consequences are just not worth it.

 

[EParker37]

Yep. Your employer or school can set whatever terms they want. Despite its legality in some jurisdictions, many hospital systems prohibit their employees from using marijuana due to performance concerns. Hell, there's even moves to ban tobacco smokers from employment at many hospitals, and University of Michigan screens you for tobacco use as an incoming med student.

Also op, hair follicle tests are extremely expensive. No one uses them aside from certain positions where security is critical or liability is ultra high for the one doing the hiring.

I don't understand the push against tobacco, yes we all agree that it is horrible for us, but it isn't an illegal substance. If they are going to refuse employment based on tobacco use, then they need to ban alcohol as well. Heck, just ban all vices altogether. Maybe it is just me, but I think that what an employee does, assuming it is legal, on their own time is their own business and not that of the employer.

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't understand the push against tobacco, yes we all agree that it is horrible for us, but it isn't an illegal substance. If they are going to refuse employment based on tobacco use, then they need to ban alcohol as well. Heck, just ban all vices altogether. Maybe it is just me, but I think that what an employee does, assuming it is legal, on their own time is their own business and not that of the employer.

They actually do ban alcohol abuse at UM as well. Abuse is loosely defined, so it is solely at their discretion whether you're abusing alcohol or not.

Personally I think it is a huge violation of personal liberty- we're signing up to be doctors, not saints.

 

[EParker37]

They actually do ban alcohol abuse at UM as well. Abuse is loosely defined, so it is solely at their discretion whether you're abusing alcohol or not.

Personally I think it is a huge violation of personal liberty- we're signing up to be doctors, not saints.

I agree completely, where I work, they are instituting a tobacco use surcharge of 35$ biweekly on health insurance starting in 2016 if you use any form of tobacco including cigars. But they don't test for tobacco, they just make you attest to using or not using it. I completely understand that they want people to be healthier, but infringing on someones rights is not the way to go about doing it.

 

[Mad Jack]

I agree completely, where I work, they are instituting a tobacco use surcharge of 35$ biweekly on health insurance starting in 2016 if you use any form of tobacco including cigars. But they don't test for tobacco, they just make you attest to using or not using it. I completely understand that they want people to be healthier, but infringing on someones rights is not the way to go about doing it.

That's one thing I'm actually okay with. If you were buying an individual policy, things like your weight and smoking history affect your premium. I see no reason why employer-sponsored policies should be any different.

 

[EParker37]

That's one thing I'm actually okay with. If you were buying an individual policy, things like your weight and smoking history affect your premium. I see no reason why employer-sponsored policies should be any different.

True, it is better than an outright ban. I would be interested to see if a hospital were to get sued because of a tobacco ban for all employees across the board, instead of doing it through an increase in premiums for insurance

 

[Mad Jack]

True, it is better than an outright ban. I would be interested to see if a hospital were to get sued because of a tobacco ban for all employees across the board, instead of doing it through an increase in premiums for insurance

It's already happened, and no, they weren't sued care of at will employment laws. Being a smoker isn't a federally protected designation.

 

[EParker37]

It's already happened, and no, they weren't sued care of at will employment laws. Being a smoker isn't a federally protected designation.

Its a scary precedent, if all hospitals start following suit, that would be a pretty big point of contention I imagine.

 

[Mad Jack]

Its a scary precedent, if all hospitals start following suit, that would be a pretty big point of contention I imagine.

I honestly doubt it. There is plenty of legal precedent for employers to fire or not hire employees based on what they do outside of work. While it may be viewed as unethical in a free society, there is no law, written or case, that makes it illegal.

 

[EParker37]

I honestly doubt it. There is plenty of legal precedent for employers to fire or not hire employees based on what they do outside of work. While it may be viewed as unethical in a free society, there is no law, written or case, that makes it illegal.

Yeah, I was referring to the societal view, rather than the legal one. I can't imagine the public would really care much about it though, given the current state of affairs.

As for the original intent of this thread, while I may not agree with the current laws regarding certain things, it would behoove you to stay away from anything drug related OP. After 10 years in the healthcare industry, I can say that you will be tested at some point, and it isn't worth risking your career over. When I was with a private EMS service we were tested every quarter, also, since you need a DEA registration to prescribe narcotics, I would steer clear of anything that could jeopardize that.

 

[Psai]

don't forget to shave your eyelashes too op

 

[ConfusedAcceptee]

Good news guys! Found a competitive swimming team at my local YMCA that'll let me join. That way when I show up to the orientation as Mr. Clean, I'll have documentation to back it up!
/s

But really, I guess I'll be fine by the date of matriculation. I'll be buying my own urine test just in case. Thanks for all the advice/help!
@Abstractions do you remember the detection times for THC metabolites that were provided on the sheet?

 

[NickNaylor]

Good news guys! Found a competitive swimming team at my local YMCA that'll let me join. That way when I show up to the orientation as Mr. Clean, I'll have documentation to back it up!
/s

But really, I guess I'll be fine by the date of matriculation. I'll be buying my own urine test just in case. Thanks for all the advice/help!
@Abstractions do you remember the detection times for THC metabolites that were provided on the sheet?

Check out @Promethean's post. THC detection on a u-tox is highly dependent on use frequency and duration. For one-time use, I think the maximum detection time is sometime around 21 days. For regular use for a prolonged period, it can be up to 8 weeks or even longer. I'm sure there's some variability depending on the test that's used, but no matter what I wouldn't be worried after a month if you only used once.

 

[crazylentils]

Does anyone know if UF screens?

 

[Gastrapathy]

This is an intelligence test not a drug test.

 

[Promethean]

Does anyone know if UF screens?

Yes. I'd be surprised if there were any institution that didn't require at least an entrance urine test.

 

[mehc012]

It's already happened, and no, they weren't sued care of at will employment laws. Being a smoker isn't a federally protected designation.

It is, however, protected in twenty-something states due to lobbying by the ACLU - with funding from tobacco companies - specifically to prevent such employment practices. The ACLU called them discriminatory policies, while the tobacco companies probably just called them unprofitable precedents, lol.

 

[Ismet]

Yes. I'd be surprised if there were any institution that didn't require at least an entrance urine test.

My school does not.

 

[el_duderino]

They've never said anything about testing here.

 

[NickNaylor]

Yes. I'd be surprised if there were any institution that didn't require at least an entrance urine test.

I've never taken a drug test prior to starting or during med school.

 

[Promethean]

I've never taken a drug test prior to starting or during med school.

Wow. I've been pee-tested so many times for nursing school and then working as a nurse and now again for med school. I was pretty sure it just went with the territory.

Congrats, I guess? Even though I don't use anything stronger than caffeine and the occasional glass of wine or beer, I always get nervous peeing in the cup. I don't fully trust that a lab error or test malfunction won't end up costing me my career.

 

[ThatOneGuy1914]

WAX IT ALL. And then tell us how it goes.

 

[NickNaylor]

Wow. I've been pee-tested so many times for nursing school and then working as a nurse and now again for med school. I was pretty sure it just went with the territory.

Congrats, I guess? Even though I don't use anything stronger than caffeine and the occasional glass of wine or beer, I always get nervous peeing in the cup. I don't fully trust that a lab error or test malfunction won't end up costing me my career.

We aren't affiliated with any government-run facilities (i.e., the VA) so I imagine this plays a big role in the determination of that policy. The three institutions we're affiliated with are private hospitals.

...that, and I imagine that the school is aware of the "habits" of a not insignificant number of students here.

 

[medic86]

Wow. I've been pee-tested so many times for nursing school and then working as a nurse and now again for med school. I was pretty sure it just went with the territory.

Congrats, I guess? Even though I don't use anything stronger than caffeine and the occasional glass of wine or beer, I always get nervous peeing in the cup. I don't fully trust that a lab error or test malfunction won't end up costing me my career.

Haha.

When I was in the Army, I ended up being pee-tested three times over a 7 day period. I hit the random lottery twice (about a week apart), then the medical company had a "personnel accountability inventory" which required a UDS for all military personnel (among other things) the day after. Ridiculous.

 

[touchpause13]

Hmm I've never heard of that before.

If you're not a frequent user than you should be clear for a urine test in a month. Don't stress, but be more careful next time

 

[touchpause13]

DO NOT SHAVE YOUR ENTIRE BODY TO AVOID A HAIR TEST.

A sudden desire to denude is an admission of guilt and will get you subjected to serious scrutiny.

THC can linger longer than many other drugs, but it is still out in just a few weeks, even in the heaviest users. If you were getting high every day, and had a lot of body fat for the the metabolites to hide in, then it could be 6 weeks or so before all traces were gone. If you got high once, I would expect that you wouldn't test positive after 2-3 weeks.

Also, hair tests aren't magic. Some substances are more discoverable via hair testing than others. Hair testing is really most useful for detecting alcohol abuse, and it is almost worthless with many street drugs. A one time weed adventure isn't going to show up in your hair, other than by the smell of the smoke, and that should be resolved by a good shower.

So, yeah, basically chill. And no more drugs. The potential consequences are just not worth it.

My cousin is a lawyer and she order a hair follicle drug test for a client's husband. ... He comes in and all of his hair is bleached, eyebrows, pubic hair, everything. Obviously he tested positive.

 

[Primo Beats]

Drugs are baaaad, mmkay?

 

[ThatOneGuy1914]

My cousin is a lawyer and she order a hair follicle drug test for a client's husband. ... He comes in and all of his hair is bleached, eyebrows, pubic hair, everything. Obviously he tested positive.

Some people are into that kinda thing.

 

[Ismet]

We aren't affiliated with any government-run facilities (i.e., the VA) so I imagine this plays a big role in the determination of that policy. The three institutions we're affiliated with are private hospitals.

...that, and I imagine that the school is aware of the "habits" of a not insignificant number of students here.

We can rotate at the VA here and don't have to be tested. Probably just institution specific.

 

[mediatationgal]

Bumping this back up, but just found out the Med school I was accepted to does "drug screening." What's the likelihood it's a hair test?

 

[Promethean]

Bumping this back up, but just found out the Med school I was accepted to does "drug screening." What's the likelihood it's a hair test?

Near zero. It is going to be a urine test, betcha money.

Seriously, it is hard to fail a urine drug test unless you are using most drugs on a daily basis. Marijuana can appear for up to several weeks later, but generally you would need to have more than a casual one time exposure during that span to actually fail the test. Most other drugs of abuse... 3 days of abstinence will get your levels below where they would need to be in order to count as a positive test.

Thus, the point of urine drug screening is really to pick up people who are habitual users, or casual users who are on their way to having habits, as demonstrated by their inability to refrain from use when the stakes are so high. If that is your situation, you should really consider getting some formal help, before you enter into a stressful educational program leading to a career in which you will have particular access to many drugs of abuse.

 

[jtd2081]

I just don't get it. Drugs are just not worth it. That 1 fun night can have a chance to ruin what you've worked your whole life for. Even if the chances of being caught are infinitesimally small why even take that chance?