EMT to Paramedic for med school

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igcgnerd

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I'm currently finishing my freshmen year of under grad. I have always wanted to be a doctor and am very focused. I got my EMT basic after my senior year of high school. I'm considering going to medic school next year but due to the schedule I will only be able to go to college part time for my sophmore year. Is the clinical experience I would get as a medic be worth the lost time? Will med schools look more favorably upon me if I had my medic cert?

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igcgnerd said:
I'm currently finishing my freshmen year of under grad. I have always wanted to be a doctor and am very focused. I got my EMT basic after my senior year of high school. I'm considering going to medic school next year but due to the schedule I will only be able to go to college part time for my sophmore year. Is the clinical experience I would get as a medic be worth the lost time? Will med schools look more favorably upon me if I had my medic cert?

igcnerd, this has been debated a lot ... and there was a post that really spoke to me I copied, but I can't find the name of the poster. If anyone knows who posted it please let me know. I'll post what he / she said.

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????? said:
This post is directed at the original poster, but applies to traditional undergrads as well. Anyway,
I'm assuming you're an EMT-B already, since that is usually a mandatory pre-requisite to becoming a paramedic (though this might be different in other states). Great, you got a head start on your med school hopeful peers, you don't really know too much as an EMT-B so you still have a healthy appreciation that you don't know very much about medicine. Believe it or not this is a wonderful place to be. I strongly advise you to stop right there (at EMT-B) and devote yourself entirely to becoming a physician.

Here's why:
EMS is a bit of a trap, you can get all caught up in it, because you are enjoying what you are doing, helping others, taking care of emergencies, etc. It's a good high when things go really right. Then you meet a paramedic, and think to yourself: boy can this guy take care of business, I'd really love to be able to do all that great stuff too! But there is really not that much to being a paramedic. Unfortunately nobody really tells you this. IN your world, all these new skills are exciting and impressive, So then things start to take a turn in your life. Let me tell you a little about what I mean:

Paramedics are funny people, they are experts in a very, very, narrow slice of medicine. In fact, when it comes down to the business of prehospital emergency care, nobody does it like a medic. WOW, I think I want to do this medic thing, I'm going to go for it, atleast for now, until I go to med school next year. BUT, you can easily get all caught up in the ALS pre-hospital care scene. Because you are doing life saving interventions you may feel like you fast forwarded yourself to "doctor" or at least the preconceived notion you had of doctors before you ever got involved in medicine. So anyway, there you'll be doing all these great skills, and soon you'll start to think that gee-whiz look at all the great things that I can do as a medic (ha! nurses my ass, they can't do this stuff!). Heck, all that other stuff in medicine really is not as important as this stuff I'm doing right now (IVs, intubation and pacing oh my!), and that's when you start to make a very big mistake. All of a sudden you really stop caring about all the other things that medicine has to offer, so you stop learning about anything that doesn't have anything to do with the "important stuff". Now depending on how long this lasts you can piss away 4,5,6 years doing EMS work and be totally satisfied. But then something happens, it can be some job that went bad on you or you come across something you've never been prepared to deal with, or any other number of things that cause you to become reflective about yourself as a professional. So then you start to read again and you once again rediscover that there is a whole world of medical knowledge out there you weren't aware of as a medic. So now you're studying again and learning about the things you didn't know, but you are never able to do it in any coherent way. The sheer volume of the material is intimidating and you have no real way of knowing if you are making any progress. Plus you are surrounded by your peers, fellow paramedic professionals who tell you things like who the heck cares about temporal arteritis, that's not important and what the heck is so important about this pancreatic psuedocyst you speak of??? So now you start to get frustrated, and you look around at the people around you who are very content with being medics and knowing what medics know, and incorrectly equating their skill proficiency with medical knowledge. But not you. You start to remember that you wanted to be a doctor, and you look back and say, how the **** did I get here, this isn't what I wanted for myself professionally or personally. This whole medic thing was supposed to be a stepping stone to becoming a physician. You become, really frustrated, pissed off, burnt out and then to add insult to injury you start to realize that you are wildly underpaid for the work you are doing. Nurses don't have to put up with 1/2 the crap that I do and they get paid 3 times as much, plus I know a hell of alot more! That's the last straw, F-this you say, I'm going back to school. Only now you are well into your mid- late 20's, (in your case, mid-late 30's) maybe you got a mortgage, a big monthly car payment, who knows maybe a wife and kids in private school, your Golden Opportunity to become a physician is now well past you. You now must suffer in new and interesting ways to get to where you wanted to be in the first place. So sacrifices and painful choices are made and finally 7-8 years later you are back on track for the MD, older, a little more worn out, less enthusiastic, but hopefully a little wiser. Maybe.

So the question is, are you absolutely, positively sure that being a medic is what you want? Think long and hard about this, this is your life afterall. That being said, you gotta do what you gotta do, if you are supporting your whole family or you are on your own out there I can understand. But think about this seriously think about this. This is a long post, but I did not make all of this stuff up, I speak to you from my experience. There are alot of other things I can go into, all sorts of crazy stuff that you'll be banging your head against, but I think I'd be writing for days and days. Anyway best of luck, you can always drop me a PM if you have any specific questions.
 
I agree, I became a paramedic not even considering medicine to any degree. But when I got my AA and cert I couldn't believe I reached the pinnacle of knowledge and skills available in my profession and I'm desperate to learn EVERYTHING in medicine. Even if you add prehospital medicine with ER medicine, it's still just a small part of the field. And very simple.
It's depressing to see more and more money move into every sector of medicine but not to EMS. And people still call us ambulance drivers.
As far as getting into med school, it's the patient contact and people skills that will help you the most. Think about it. You're comitting your life to people if you go into medicine, I hear that's a big thing schools are looking for these days, as well as looking good on paper.
It's been tempting for me to move up to a different level. I was lookin into the CCRN thing, just for more respect and skills, but someone on these forums said to me that it's pointless to get any other certs if medicine is my dream. So I'm more focused on my degree and med school.
I can't imagine how some people do this same job for decades on end. Yes, there's alot to learn and pick up. But it just gets so repedative.
 
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viostorm said:
igcnerd, this has been debated a lot ... and there was a post that really spoke to me I copied, but I can't find the name of the poster. If anyone knows who posted it please let me know. I'll post what he / she said.
Great post. Best summary I've seen yet.
 
igcgnerd said:
I'm currently finishing my freshmen year of under grad. I have always wanted to be a doctor and am very focused. I got my EMT basic after my senior year of high school. I'm considering going to medic school next year but due to the schedule I will only be able to go to college part time for my sophmore year. Is the clinical experience I would get as a medic be worth the lost time? Will med schools look more favorably upon me if I had my medic cert?
The other poster gave an interesting read; I just had to read about pancreatic pseudocysts the other day. :laugh:

Anyhow, one thing he didn't mention is that EMS will not provide any significant bonus to your application. There are lots of anecdotal stories on here of paramedics who had absolutely no help by virtue of their profession. I can't remember the user, but one guy was talking about how the medical school that rejected him later asked him if he could teach some medical student clerks how to do a few procedures.

That said, if it interests you then go for it. If it's just for the application, don't bother risking it.
 
leviathan said:
The other poster gave an interesting read; I just had to read about pancreatic pseudocysts the other day. :laugh:

Anyhow, one thing he didn't mention is that EMS will not provide any significant bonus to your application. There are lots of anecdotal stories on here of paramedics who had absolutely no help by virtue of their profession. I can't remember the user, but one guy was talking about how the medical school that rejected him later asked him if he could teach some medical student clerks how to do a few procedures.

That said, if it interests you then go for it. If it's just for the application, don't bother risking it.

also believe it or not many admin folks don't know the difference between an emt-basic and an emt-p, so they may think you are"just" an emt-basic even after 1-2 more yrs to get the medic cert.
I did emt 1-a(now called emt-b) as a senior in high school, worked as an er tech through college and summers and worked with many pa's while doing this. at the time you needed to be an emt-p, rn, or r.t. to get into pa school(now they let almost anyone in, but that is a topic for another day) so I went to medic school right after getting out of college in order to bolster my pa school application. I did enjoy the work and did it for a few yrs but couldn't see being a 50 yr old paramedic with a bad back someday, still making less than 20/hr so I went to pa school and have worked in em as a pa ever since. I had to explain to all 3 of my interviwers what the difference between an emt and an emt-p was and they were all surprised that medics were allowed to intubate and do advanced skills with only 1 yr of training. regardless, I got in.
 
The only thing I will add that is if you will not be 21 by the time you finish medic school, you may not be able to find a job working on the road due to insurance costs.
 
Empress said:
The only thing I will add that is if you will not be 21 by the time you finish medic school, you may not be able to find a job working on the road due to insurance costs.
It's 23 in many places and for Rural/Metro (or at least it used to be).
 
leviathan said:
That said, if it interests you then go for it. If it's just for the application, don't bother risking it.
I agree.

If you are interested truly for the sake of being a medic and working as a medic, then go for it. You'll got some good experience doing it. If you just want it so you have an extra thing on your app, then it's not a good idea. Mostly, I worked as an EMT because I liked it. It's also a good intro to healthcare...as in you talk to patients, take histories, blah blah, see how ERs work, so how other places work if you do transfers, etc. It helps you a bit once you are a student because you already have some skills.

I think adcoms can really tell the difference to some degree depending on if you have something to say about your exprience and they way you talk about it. If the interviewer asks you want being an EMT is like, and you have nothing to say because you're only certified, they can tell and it's probably not good.

Still, there are probably docs and others in the medical community who don't really know what exactly EMTs do and what they are capable of, so it could be a waste if you are just doing it for apps. Which leaves doing it if you really truly want to. As in you better yourself for yourself first and then it helps your app second.
 
This is an interesting topic. As a paramedic turned med student I figured I would offer my $.02 especially after reading what sounded like basically a bash on the prehospital field.

I would offer this:

If you know you want to be a doctor and you are already in undergrad then do not waste your time. What will be at least one year of school to be a paramedic (approx 24 credit hours) would set you back another year towards MD/DO. What you will learn in Medic school will no doubt be helpful in medschool as many of my classmates seem to be way behind in knowledge of medical practice. The trade off is I need to spend extra time on "Basic" science that you do not get in paramedic school. Sure you will briefly cover biots law and Fick principle, but the detail is just not there.

Did being a paramedic help me get into med school?

Yes. I was specifically told my experience and not my mediocre grades was my ticket in. But consider the background. I did not go to paramedic school with the idea of going to med school. I have spent more than a decade working in prehospital care. My work experience covers everything from ambulances in multiple states to field clinics in foreign countries. I doubt very much it would have had the same weight as saying in my interview "I did take a paramedic class." Especially since nobody outside of Emergency or Trauma seems to know that a paramedic is more than an ambulance driver.

Not just an EMT:

Becomming a paramedic in the year 2006 is far more than learning a few new skills. But consider that your goal is for more knowledge I would say working even part time as an EMT is more than enough. You can learn things without having to be formally taught. For example an emt on a transport ambulance sees a medical record on just about every patient. You can look over the meds and look them up on your own, you can correlate the meds with the conditions, you can watch disease processes of patients progress. You don't need to spend 16 hours of classroom another 4-6 of lab and 16 hours a week of clinicals for that. If you can get a job in an ER even better. I have been taught how to read xrays and ct scans as well as numerous other skills. There is always a constant hatred between Medics and Nurses, Nurses and Doctors, that boils down to: Great providers make it to the top. They are the ones whos opinions and experience is valued when interdisciplinary decisions need to be made. As it should be, knowledge is worth more than title.

Summary:
If you are in undergrad, stay in undergrad. If you don't get accpeted to med school when you are done they will tell you why. Work on those points. I have never heard of anyone getting turned down because they lacked clinical experience. In fact, I just taught a CPR course to some first years who had never even had CPR training before.

Hope this helps,
Mike
 
If you are an EMT, that might help your application. Getting your Paramedic won't help any further. Just finish undergrad and go to medical school if you already "know" that's what you want to do...

1. Got my EMT and joined the fire dept. because it sounded cool and exciting.
2. Went to Paramedic school because wanted to learn more and do more on the ambulance.
3. Went to medical school because medicine was interesting and wanted to learn more and be happy in career.
4. Realized in medical school being a doctor isn't all its cracked up to be...medicine IS interesting and exciting, health care sucks.
5. Went into Radiology. :laugh:

Vince

P.S. There are two types of doctors...Radiologists and those that want to be Radiologists.
 
igcgnerd said:
I'm currently finishing my freshmen year of under grad. I have always wanted to be a doctor and am very focused. I got my EMT basic after my senior year of high school. I'm considering going to medic school next year but due to the schedule I will only be able to go to college part time for my sophmore year. Is the clinical experience I would get as a medic be worth the lost time? Will med schools look more favorably upon me if I had my medic cert?

Becoming a paramedic is an excellent way to gain experience prior to entering the clinical years of medical school.

Don't listen to the people on this forum who tell you not to do paramedics.

I have always run into resistance from people about becoming a paramedic, with the prior intention of always wanting to go to medical school. These people are one of two varieties: 1. People who were paramedics first and decided to become a physician later; 2. People who never became a paramedic, but wish they did.

With all of that aside:

Your first mission is to become a physician. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to go to undergrad part time and sacrifice this to go to paramedic school. This will only HURT YOU on your application. There are plenty of medic schools who teach only a couple of nights a week, so look for one of those.....

To answer your other question, med school will look equally upon being an EMT and a paramedic. In addition, they will look greatly down upon you for doing undergrad part time.

You should not make the jump from EMT to paramedic to impress anyone. You should make that jump because you truly want the clinical experience, and this is especially true if you want to go into emergency medicine as a specialty...

Another consideration is becoming an EMT-Intermediate, which allows you to do IV's and intubation.
 
Thanks everyone for all your replies and advice. Since starting this forum I have made the move from working in the field to working as an ER tech. This allows me to get closer more hands on experience with a small group of docs that I work great with. I enjoyed my time in the field and right now I feel the clinical setting works best in my life. This experience makes me feel well prepared come apllication time. Thanks for all the help. :)
 
igcgnerd said:
Thanks everyone for all your replies and advice. Since starting this forum I have made the move from working in the field to working as an ER tech. This allows me to get closer more hands on experience with a small group of docs that I work great with. I enjoyed my time in the field and right now I feel the clinical setting works best in my life. This experience makes me feel well prepared come apllication time. Thanks for all the help. :)


At least you can go through the experience of being an ER Tech. In my part of Maryland, EMT-B's to ER Tech's aren't allowed. One must be a Certified Nursing Assistant first for a year, then qualify to become a PCT aka Patient Care Technician.

PCT = ER Tech = in the great State of Maryland

My local hospitals won't let EMT-B's in the ER unless they are going through their clinicals in I or P school.

Oh yeah, I think Nurses are great...and I may end up getting a BSN in nursing after I graduate from college in Finance (2 years left). HOWEVER, I'm NEVER going to work as a CNA.

As an EMT-B you get to deal with nasty smells and grisly images for like 10-20 minutes on the way to the hospital. CNA's have to deal with it until their shift ends.

A little story...

I was working private ambulance and I was transporting a patient to the hospital from a nursing home. I arrived on the scene and the patient was unclean and in isolation. The stench from the nursing home and from the patient reminded me of a dead deer laying on the side of the road.

I was discussing with the LPN the transport along with other medical necessities necessary, when I bothered to ask him what was that stench and how did he live with it. The stench was similar to the combination of urine, old blood, and bed sores combined. The LPN responded that he couldn't smell anything which led me to believe that he got used to it. How horrible in my opinion... no wonder CNA's and LPN's are being bussed by the truck loads from Africa to work in the nursing homes. They'll be paid the measly wage to take care of our sick who won't be taken care of by our own people, and even their own family members.

What has this world come to? Everyone wants to go into medicine, PA school, Nursing school, pharm etc... to "help people". What people don't realize is its not just people in hospitals that need help but geriatric patients who need a lot more of the help.

Of course the obvious is presented....you won't make money from helping those in nursing homes. The single fact that people won't make money "helping" them clears oh about 95% of would be health professionals. Although I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm similar in that respect. What people in nursing homes need is lots of attention and continual care...a lot of what they're not getting! Since no one will pay you a lot to fulfill that need, people won't fulfill that road.

I cringe when I realize that my parents are 51 and 57, and they are not far away from the nursing home geriatric age. My parents will never be put into any nursing home no matter the costs. Nursing homes are death traps for the elderly.

Sorry for my rant... Good luck with school.
 
Edivocke said:
A little story...

I was working private ambulance and I was transporting a patient to the hospital from a nursing home. I arrived on the scene and the patient was unclean and in isolation. The stench from the nursing home and from the patient reminded me of a dead deer laying on the side of the road.

I was discussing with the LPN the transport along with other medical necessities necessary, when I bothered to ask him what was that stench and how did he live with it. The stench was similar to the combination of urine, old blood, and bed sores combined. The LPN responded that he couldn't smell anything which led me to believe that he got used to it. How horrible in my opinion... no wonder CNA's and LPN's are being bussed by the truck loads from Africa to work in the nursing homes. They'll be paid the measly wage to take care of our sick who won't be taken care of by our own people, and even their own family members.

What has this world come to? Everyone wants to go into medicine, PA school, Nursing school, pharm etc... to "help people". What people don't realize is its not just people in hospitals that need help but geriatric patients who need a lot more of the help.

Of course the obvious is presented....you won't make money from helping those in nursing homes. The single fact that people won't make money "helping" them clears oh about 95% of would be health professionals. Although I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm similar in that respect. What people in nursing homes need is lots of attention and continual care...a lot of what they're not getting! Since no one will pay you a lot to fulfill that need, people won't fulfill that road.

I cringe when I realize that my parents are 51 and 57, and they are not far away from the nursing home geriatric age. My parents will never be put into any nursing home no matter the costs. Nursing homes are death traps for the elderly.

Sorry for my rant... Good luck with school.

Okay, I understand that people who work in nursing homes have to deal with a lot of nastiness and I also agree they do not get paid a lot. But, when you were asking the LPN what the smell was, did you ask if the LPN could clean the pt? If by "unclean" you mean sweaty and dirty, the pt still needs a bath. If by "unclean" you mean the pt urinated and or deficated in the bed, the pt needs to be cleaned. And if you discovered the nursing home demonstrated sub-standard care, did you report it to whatever reporting agency exists in your area.

I certainly agree that people who work in nursing homes aren't doing it for the money, but just because they get paid poorly is no excuse for how they perform the job. It is their responsibiltiy to ensure the health and well-fare of the "residents," "guests," or patients. If that LPN was properly performing the job for which he was employed, he might not have had to get used to the stench.
 
I'd say DO IT! My EMS experience as a medic/firefighter of 8 years is absolutely what got me into medical school..
 
My 6 years of being a firefighter/paramedic got me in as well. and because of my experinace i have been kicking some A$$ in problem based learning.
 
Sorry don't mean to hi-jack the thread and I'm also new here but I've read about every post above mine and I'm starting an intro to emt course at my local community college. I would like my final destination to be a md/phd in either neuroscience or cardiology. I'm just curious as to what kind of classes should I be taking this early, the emt/ems course credits probably won't transfer depending on the school I transfer to as a sophomore. I'm pretty much clueless to how to go about all this so all the advice I can get would be wonderful. And also if you could direct me to the right forum if this isn't appropriate, I don't really see one for "helping the clueless." :]
 
Likely your EMT class with be a technical school or community college. Neither courses are recommended to satisfy pre-medical requirements of one year of English, one year of general biology, one year of general chemistry, and one year of organic chemistry.

For someone interested in a Mud-Phud degree (MD PhD), you should concentrate more on research instead of clinical experience. MD PhD's are researchers, or at least that's what the medical schools want them to be. A lot of MD PhD's go into clinical practice, but this isn't the intention of the Medical Scientist Training Program. Therefore, a medical school is more likely to accept a MSTP applicant with extensive research experience over someone with extensive clinical experience.
 
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