Failed to Match: Realistic SOAP/post-SOAP chances?

[Anonymous99]

Hi all. After doing the best I could throughout medical school (top 1/3rd, Step 1 and 2 just shy of 260, good LORs, published research etc) and ranking 8 programs, I found out I failed to match today.

I'm assuming the chances of filling an unfilled spot (either via SOAP or in the unfilled programs who do not participate in SOAP once the SOAP process concludes) are extremely low?

Any input/insight would be appreciated.

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[Dral]

Based on that other thread, there are 9 spots open. You have good stats, so hopefully you land one of them!

Stay positive. I know it sucks right now, but keep your eye on the prize.

If post-soap you still don't have a spot, keep in contact with your PD. They are probably the best resource to hear about open positions outside the match.

Did you land an intern year spot?

 

[Anonymous99]

Based on that other thread, there are 9 spots open. You have good stats, so hopefully you land one of them!

Thanks for your input. There are only 3 spots in the actual SOAP. Others are outside (post-SOAP) and a couple are out of the question (military).

Stay positive. I know it sucks right now, but keep your eye on the prize.

If post-soap you still don't have a spot, keep in contact with your PD. They are probably the best resource to hear about open positions outside the match.

Did you land an intern year spot?

Yes. I have a preliminary medicine position at a hospital with no derm dept in a large city.

 

[Dral]

Ok, three is actually in line with other years.

I'll shoot you a PM to discuss more.

 

[kwyjibo]

I'm in a similar situation as OP.

Top 25 school, 1st quartile, step 1/2 260s/270s respectively, research, good letters (though none from "big Whigs"). Ranked 7 and didn't match.

Will reapply during intern year. Any advice?

 

[HalladayWeekend]

I went through this last year and got a position out of the match, so just try to keep your head up and have faith things will work out. If derm is truly what you want, stay in touch with your PD (who will keep you informed of out-of-match positions) and try to set up away rotations for next year (this might have to be done in July/August). Also, if you had a good relationship with any away programs you did this year, also let them know (they still might have liked you very much- derm being so small is just very tough, even with great stats). Sorry you had to go through this

 

[Dral]

It pains me that all of you with such great stats are not matching.

I'll post some general pointers that I PM'd to Anonymous (with the parts of our personal conversation removed). These assume that you have an intern year lined up (or will land one during SOAP).

1. SOAP. This is obvious. I honestly don't know how it works now. Do what you have to do to get a spot within the rules.

2. Find out about those out of match spots. Ask your PD for help. Reach out to ANYONE who can help/advocate. Don't be ashamed or worried...just reach out to them.

3. Contact your intern year PC/Chiefs. Explain your situation to them. Explain that in your schedule for next year, you would like to schedule a dermatology rotation early in the year, either at their institution or at a nearby institution if your intern year program does not have an academic derm department. This is your time to shine and network.

4. If you are really committed, start researching research fellowship positions. It's better to have completed intern year first. You want to know who you would work with and what is the match rate of the fellows. You ideally want to be working on something of interest to you.

 

[Dral]

I went through this last year and got a position out of the match, so just try to keep your head up and have faith things will work out. If derm is truly what you want, stay in touch with your PD (who will keep you informed of out-of-match positions) and try to set up away rotations for next year (this might have to be done in July/August). Also, if you had a good relatioship with any away programs you did this year, also let them know (they still might have liked you very much- derm being so small is just very tough, even with great stats). Sorry you had to go through this

Huge congrats!!!!! I'm so glad it worked out for you!

 

[HalladayWeekend]

Thanks! So sad that this has to happen to such great candidates every year

Huge congrats!!!!! I'm so glad it worked out for you!

 

[Dral]

Yep, didn't match back in the day. Happens to the best of us.

Just makes you appreciate it even more when you get it.

 

[username456789]

I went through this last year and got a position out of the match, so just try to keep your head up and have faith things will work out. If derm is truly what you want, stay in touch with your PD (who will keep you informed of out-of-match positions) and try to set up away rotations for next year (this might have to be done in July/August). Also, if you had a good relationship with any away programs you did this year, also let them know (they still might have liked you very much- derm being so small is just very tough, even with great stats). Sorry you had to go through this

Wow, I had no idea. Last I heard you were without a spot, but I didn't realize you got one outside the match. Congrats!

 

[@JackShephard]

Wow, tough match this year it looks like.

 

[MilkIsGood]

I went through this last year and got a position out of the match, so just try to keep your head up and have faith things will work out. If derm is truly what you want, stay in touch with your PD (who will keep you informed of out-of-match positions) and try to set up away rotations for next year (this might have to be done in July/August). Also, if you had a good relationship with any away programs you did this year, also let them know (they still might have liked you very much- derm being so small is just very tough, even with great stats). Sorry you had to go through this

When you say you got one out of the match, was it through SOAP?

 

[HalladayWeekend]

Nope not in SOAP, position opened up starting in July during my intern year that I happily accepted

 

[DermViser]

Hi all. After doing the best I could throughout medical school (top 1/3rd, Step 1 and 2 just shy of 260, good LORs, published research etc) and ranking 8 programs, I found out I failed to match today.

Top 25 school, 1st quartile, step 1/2 260s/270s respectively, research, good letters (though none from "big Whigs"). Ranked 7 and didn't match.

Wow, I'm shocked with your stats that you guys got so few interviews!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi all. After doing the best I could throughout medical school (top 1/3rd, Step 1 and 2 just shy of 260, good LORs, published research etc) and ranking 8 programs, I found out I failed to match today.

I'm assuming the chances of filing an unfilled spot (either via SOAP or in the unfilled programs who do not participate in SOAP once the SOAP process concludes) are extremely low?

Any input/insight would be appreciated.

Sorry to hear this, I can only echo the advice of those above

You obviously have excellent stats. If derm is what you want, keep plugging away and you'll end up there eventually

- Definitely keep in touch with your home PD as that will be the best source of info on sudden openings

- I'm not familiar with the SOAP process but I'd remain optimistic given your stats

- And worse comes to worse, complete intern year and do a research year at a program with a history of matching their fellows

Best of luck!

 

[PicasoSchmicaso]

Has anyone heard from the programs participating in the SOAP? this waiting game is dreadful

 

[DermViser]

So do SOAP derm programs just interview over the phone? Back when it was the Scramble, they would have you fly out to interview again.

 

[Substance]

Wow, I'm shocked with your stats that you guys got so few interviews!

Anytime I see this kind of pattern I wonder about certain little things, like whether one of the OP's references backstabbed him, or he has some sort of other on-paper issue that he is unaware of.

And I also wonder why someone would go through all of the BS of high steps, meaningless research years and brown-necking to potentially not match, since it seems the derm process is so chock-full of high-level applicants that the only things separating them are factors out of their control, like strong family/sex connections, political, religious or racial preferences etc. Putting that much effort towards something like radiology, or even ENT or urology, would be more fruitful and is a bit more of a sure bet.

 

[Drdrdr1115]

Putting that much effort towards something like radiology, or even ENT or urology, would be more fruitful and is a bit more of a sure bet.

But I don't wanna do "radiology, or even ENT or urology"...I wanna do derm.

 

[Substance]

I was actually wondering something similar.

But there were, at least at my school, quite a few very qualified people who went unmatched in ENT this year too. I don't think this type of thing is specific to derm.

I thought of something that may make matching to a very hard-to-enter field worthwhile, beyond income and lifestyle and prestige and all that. It's mindset. If something is hard to get, and you get it, you make damn sure you never lose it. Any field full of people like that will certainly be more likely to fight things like reimbursement cuts, government over-regulation etc. The only thing that can kill a field like that is disruptive technology, like what happened to CT surg.

Look at the overregulated, hyperpaperwork fields. Now look at the types of people that go into them, and think of how difficult it was to get in for them (probably not very). They probably don't value it as much and are ok with handing over more and more of their autonomy to other parties.

In Canada, there were going to be huge cuts to radiology, ophthal and cardiology. Rather than take them lying down, they got their monies together, hired some crack legal teams, and had the cuts distributed equally among all fields (of course this hurts the family docs and psychiatrists the most, but did they do anything besides complain a bit. No.) I suspect it has to do with mindset.

 

[DermViser]

I thought of something that may make matching to a very hard-to-enter field worthwhile, beyond income and lifestyle and prestige and all that. It's mindset. If something is hard to get, and you get it, you make damn sure you never lose it. Any field full of people like that will certainly be more likely to fight things like reimbursement cuts, government over-regulation etc. The only thing that can kill a field like that is disruptive technology, like what happened to CT surg.

Look at the overregulated, hyperpaperwork fields. Now look at the types of people that go into them, and think of how difficult it was to get in for them (probably not very). They probably don't value it as much and are ok with handing over more and more of their autonomy to other parties.

In Canada, there were going to be huge cuts to radiology, ophthal and cardiology. Rather than take them lying down, they got their monies together, hired some crack legal teams, and had the cuts distributed equally among all fields (of course this hurts the family docs and psychiatrists the most, but did they do anything besides complain a bit. No.) I suspect it has to do with mindset.

You would be wrong - Lifestyle is INHERENT to the specialty itself. For example PM&R is relatively a good lifestyle specialty and not usually considered to be "high-paying".

Look at how the govt. and insurance co.s have destroyed primary care by making it a "gate-keeper", not to mention the management of chronic medical problems, that never go away, which your patient doesn't care about their HTN, Diabetes, Smoking, etc. and doesn't care to listen to you. Dealing with the same mundane problems with no solution is not something that medical students care to do.

There are already major imaging cuts that Medicare has approved for Radiology with respect to imaging. I'll tell you that most of them don't regret their decision one bit to do Radiology in the first place. Now compare that to the utter BS you have to deal with in Internal Medicine residency i.e. ridiculous admits, GOMERs, etc. This characteristic has nothing to do with the govt.

 

[DermViser]

Anytime I see this kind of pattern I wonder about certain little things, like whether one of the OP's references backstabbed him, or he has some sort of other on-paper issue that he is unaware of.

And I also wonder why someone would go through all of the BS of high steps, meaningless research years and brown-necking to potentially not match, since it seems the derm process is so chock-full of high-level applicants that the only things separating them are factors out of their control, like strong family/sex connections, political, religious or racial preferences etc. Putting that much effort towards something like radiology, or even ENT or urology, would be more fruitful and is a bit more of a sure bet.

I think it's hard for others, esp. those who are not in medicine, who never thought about, were never interested in a specialty like derm, to understand why those who didn't match into a certain specialty are so upset. The truth is that derm program directors and faculty can be ultra-choosy with who they want, which is ironic as many of them entered the specialty when it was nowhere near this competitive. Especially at many of the top derm program interviews, you'll meet many of the same people over and over again, since so few are interviewed to begin with.

For the MS-4 derm applicant, that esp. has all this below, it's a real blow to the psyche to have nearly all your ducks in place, and not match with:

1. Being top of your medical school class (which if you're lucky enough to have AOA, I believe does net you many more interviews)
2. Having great preclinical grades
3. Having a great Step 1 score that is at least 1 standard deviation above the mean of all test takers in the country if not higher (240 or higher)
4. Having great clinical grades
5. Getting great LORs from dermatologists either at home or elsewhere, and
6. Derm Research (although the quality of this varies in spectrum between case reports all the way to having actual publications)

Having 1-4 is already very hard to get alone and for some derm programs is the bare minimum to even be considered.

Not to mention the "soft" things that MS-4s don't necessarily have control over, which can affect whether someone matches:

• your tier of your medical school (as if getting into A medical school isn't hard enough)
• being an MD/PhD (esp. if the PhD is in something directly related to Dermatology) or having another terminal degree (MPH, Masters in Clinical Research)
• how willing/mentoring your home derm dept. is willing to go to bat for you both at home and at other programs
• whether you are an underrepresented minority (this doesn't just apply to derm though)
• Your "life story"
• and in very few cases, but enough to piss anyone off: being the significant other/engaged/married or the child of a derm faculty member

With such a coarse and unforgiving filtering process, where any perceived "deficiency" can kill your chances, it's any wonder that so many times really good applicants who could truly propel our specialty forward are left behind. This just isn't the case, for example, in another great specialty such as Radiology (which I bring up as it is also very visually oriented, I know nothing about ENT/Urology).

A perfect example, look at the original founder of DIGA, Kelly Werlinger. Now I don't know her at all personally, and I don't know her grades, scores, etc. But DIGA was a project founded by her, which she built from scratch and catapulted to being a national program which has medical student and program director involvement, and now even has company sponsorship. She even published a lot for a medical student at one of the top derm programs: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term="Werlinger KD"[Author]. With all that she didn't even match into her home Derm program. It's why I believe you truly can't take anything for granted in this entire process, when applying to Derm.

 

[Transformers]

I think it's hard for others, esp. those who are not in medicine, who never thought about, were never interested in a specialty like derm, to understand why those who didn't match into a certain specialty are so upset. The truth is that derm program directors and faculty can be ultra-choosy with who they want, which is ironic as many of them entered the specialty when it was nowhere near this competitive. Especially at many of the top derm program interviews, you'll meet many of the same people over and over again, since so few are interviewed to begin with.

For the MS-4 derm applicant, that esp. has all this below, it's a real blow to the psyche to have nearly all your ducks in place, and not match with:

1. Being top of your medical school class (which if you're lucky enough to have AOA, I believe does net you many more interviews)
2. Having great preclinical grades
3. Having a great Step 1 score that is at least 1 standard deviation above the mean of all test takers in the country if not higher (240 or higher)
4. Having great clinical grades
5. Getting great LORs from dermatologists either at home or elsewhere, and
6. Derm Research (although the quality of this varies in spectrum between case reports all the way to having actual publications)

Having 1-4 is already very hard to get alone and for some derm programs is the bare minimum to even be considered.

Not to mention the "soft" things that MS-4s don't necessarily have control over, which can affect whether someone matches:

• your tier of your medical school (as if getting into A medical school isn't hard enough)
• being an MD/PhD (esp. if the PhD is in something directly related to Dermatology) or having another terminal degree (MPH, Masters in Clinical Research)
• how willing/mentoring your home derm dept. is willing to go to bat for you both at home and at other programs
• whether you are an underrepresented minority (this doesn't just apply to derm though)
• Your "life story"
• and in very few cases, but enough to piss anyone off: being the significant other/engaged/married or the child of a derm faculty member

With such a coarse and unforgiving filtering process, where any perceived "deficiency" can kill your chances, it's any wonder that so many times really good applicants who could truly propel our specialty forward are left behind. This just isn't the case, for example, in another great specialty such as Radiology (which I bring up as it is also very visually oriented, I know nothing about ENT/Urology).

A perfect example, look at the original founder of DIGA, Kelly Werlinger. Now I don't know her at all personally, and I don't know her grades, scores, etc. But DIGA was a project founded by her, which she built from scratch and catapulted to being a national program which has medical student and program director involvement, and now even has company sponsorship. She even published a lot for a medical student at one of the top derm programs: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term="Werlinger KD"[Author]. With all that she didn't even match into her home Derm program. It's why I believe you truly can't take anything for granted in this entire process, when applying to Derm.

RIP: http://www.derminterest.org/InMemory.aspx

 

[DermViser]

RIP: http://www.derminterest.org/InMemory.aspx

I agree. Quite a tragedy all around. Makes me wonder how much further she would have taken specialty, if only she had been given the chance. If someone like that can't match even to her home program, it speaks volumes about the derm residency selection process.

 

[Transformers]

I agree. Quite a tragedy all around. Makes me wonder how much further she would have taken specialty, if only she had been given the chance. If someone like that can't match even to her home program, it speaks volumes about the derm residency selection process.

Yeah truly a sad story.

 

[Hoser]

So, which programs didn't match initially?

 

[DermViser]

So, which programs didn't match initially?

Aren't some unmatched Derm programs still interviewing? I know not all of the Derm programs participated in SOAP.

 

[Hoser]

Is it still not legit to say which programs didn't fill? I guess I'm not up to date on the SOAP/non-SOAP thing.

 

[Drdrdr1115]

Is it still not legit to say which programs didn't fill? I guess I'm not up to date on the SOAP/non-SOAP thing.

I don't know. But if you're really determined, the NRMP puts out a report of every program and how many spots they had and how many filled. You can access the report from the R3 website if you applied this year. Otherwise they make it a public at some point in the near future.

 

[kwyjibo]

Got a rejection email from the unfilled program. Best of luck to the rest of you guys.

 

[DrKatie618]

Hey guys,
I am in a similar boat as the initial poster with somewhat lower but still decent stats.
Lower tier med school with no derm dept so I don't have any significant mentors/advocates
Senior AOA
Step 1: 249
Step 2: 262
Preclinical grades: mostly A's, a couple B's and 1 C M1 year. 4.0 M2 year.
Clerkships: A/honored all of them and got an award at graduation for that
M4: all A's/honors including 3 derm aways and medicine sub I
3.88 overall gpa
1 year of peds derm "research" at a fancy place with an extremely famous mentor during M2 year (in quotes because my role was small/ancillary and I didn't spend much time with the actual mentor but rather with the research fellows, and got no publications from it)
No derm pubs, trying to get some during intern year
8 Internal medicine pubs (cases and posters)
5 derm interviews

I am doing a medicine prelim at an academic institution with a derm program, however I already know that I have basically no chance of ever matching there (long story but the PD is the one who told me this).

I am already planning to do a research fellowship next year, and have been looking into the different options. Interviewed at one great program already but haven't heard back yet.

I am now trying to decide whether I should 1) reapply to derm this year during intern year or 2) not apply at all this year and wait to apply again until I am a research fellow.
I know that reapplying during intern year without changing much on your application tends to be futile, but does it hurt?
In an ideal world I'd like to take only 1 year off for research, so if there's even a SMALL chance I could match in this upcoming cycle it's worth the time and money to me (even if it ends up being a waste). But what I'm worried about is if I don't match again and end up applying again during the 2015-2016 cycle, will it hurt my chances at that time? I.e. does it look bad to be applying to derm for the 3rd time?

Thanks for your help!

 

[asmallchild]

Hey guys,
I am in a similar boat as the initial poster with somewhat lower but still decent stats.
Lower tier med school with no derm dept so I don't have any significant mentors/advocates
Senior AOA
Step 1: 249
Step 2: 262
Preclinical grades: mostly A's, a couple B's and 1 C M1 year. 4.0 M2 year.
Clerkships: A/honored all of them and got an award at graduation for that
M4: all A's/honors including 3 derm aways and medicine sub I
3.88 overall gpa
1 year of peds derm "research" at a fancy place with an extremely famous mentor during M2 year (in quotes because my role was small/ancillary and I didn't spend much time with the actual mentor but rather with the research fellows, and got no publications from it)
No derm pubs, trying to get some during intern year
8 Internal medicine pubs (cases and posters)
5 derm interviews

I am doing a medicine prelim at an academic institution with a derm program, however I already know that I have basically no chance of ever matching there (long story but the PD is the one who told me this).

I am already planning to do a research fellowship next year, and have been looking into the different options. Interviewed at one great program already but haven't heard back yet.

I am now trying to decide whether I should 1) reapply to derm this year during intern year or 2) not apply at all this year and wait to apply again until I am a research fellow.
I know that reapplying during intern year without changing much on your application tends to be futile, but does it hurt?
In an ideal world I'd like to take only 1 year off for research, so if there's even a SMALL chance I could match in this upcoming cycle it's worth the time and money to me (even if it ends up being a waste). But what I'm worried about is if I don't match again and end up applying again during the 2015-2016 cycle, will it hurt my chances at that time? I.e. does it look bad to be applying to derm for the 3rd time?

Thanks for your help!

Your stats look pretty good so I think it isn't out of the question to reapply as an intern. The key question is whether or not you want to commit a year to research. You are certainly taking a risk by reapplying without changing anything and it definitely looks bad to be applying for a 3rd time. If you can take the year off to do research, that is going to be your best bet. If you absolutely cannot dedicate a year to research, your stats are good enough that you have a chance but apply very broadly.

 

[DrKatie618]

Thanks for the response. I'm definitely willing to do the research year and am planning on doing it regardless (the only way I wouldn't is if I got a 2015 spot outside the match).
So if I'm hearing you correctly, you are saying if I'm willing to commit to a research year and can afford to delay applying again until then, I should NOT apply this year as an intern, correct?
Thanks again!

 

[username456789]

Just out of curiosity, to how many programs did you apply this past cycle?

 

[DermViser]

Your stats look pretty good so I think it isn't out of the question to reapply as an intern. The key question is whether or not you want to commit a year to research. You are certainly taking a risk by reapplying without changing anything and it definitely looks bad to be applying for a 3rd time. If you can take the year off to do research, that is going to be your best bet. If you absolutely cannot dedicate a year to research, your stats are good enough that you have a chance but apply very broadly.

To programs actually keep track the number of times you applied to that specific program. Like they have on file that Johnny is applying for the second time, Suzie is applying for the third time, etc.?

 

[asmallchild]

To programs actually keep track the number of times you applied to that specific program. Like they have on file that Johnny is applying for the second time, Suzie is applying for the third time, etc.?

My program certainly kept track and I figure most would notice anyway if there is a gap between your year of graduation from medical school and your anticipated start date as a dermatology resident. A re-applicant (whether or not they are specifically re-applying to that particular program) is probably not going to be viewed in the best light

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for the response. I'm definitely willing to do the research year and am planning on doing it regardless (the only way I wouldn't is if I got a 2015 spot outside the match).
So if I'm hearing you correctly, you are saying if I'm willing to commit to a research year and can afford to delay applying again until then, I should NOT apply this year as an intern, correct?
Thanks again!

That's correct. If you are OK with taking a research year, it will significantly strengthen your application profile and is an opportunity worth pursuing.

 

[KanyeWes]

after reading this entire thread, I have decided not to even think about pursuing derm anymore.

It is very disappointing. I really like derm. This field is something that is really interesting to me because I have many derm issues myself. And the field encompasses a wide variety of topics, ranging from skin disease, skin cancer (which is so important given the current tanning trends), tattoo removal, hair transplant, nails, and etc.

If these individuals (top 25 med school, big wig lors, big research) with opportunities that I have zero access to cannot make it, there is just zero chance of me making it.

 

[username456789]

after reading this entire thread, I have decided not to even think about pursuing derm anymore.

It is very disappointing. I really like derm. This field is something that is really interesting to me because I have many derm issues myself. And the field encompasses a wide variety of topics, ranging from skin disease, skin cancer (which is so important given the current tanning trends), tattoo removal, hair transplant, nails, and etc.

If these individuals (top 25 med school, big wig lors, big research) with opportunities that I have zero access to cannot make it, there is just zero chance of me making it.

That's the spirit.

 

[KanyeWes]

That's the spirit.

Thanks! I know, right?

 

[DermViser]

after reading this entire thread, I have decided not to even think about pursuing derm anymore.

It is very disappointing. I really like derm. This field is something that is really interesting to me because I have many derm issues myself. And the field encompasses a wide variety of topics, ranging from skin disease, skin cancer (which is so important given the current tanning trends), tattoo removal, hair transplant, nails, and etc.

If these individuals (top 25 med school, big wig lors, big research) with opportunities that I have zero access to cannot make it, there is just zero chance of me making it.

You haven't even freakin' started med school yet! You know there are D.O. derm residencies, right?

 

[Dral]

If you're in essence giving up at the point you're at, it may be the correct choice to avoid Derm. I believe Derm is the absolute best choice. However, I have a personal bias.

If you can see yourself being happy with something else less competitive, you may want to focus on that other field. The road to Derm is bumpy for most.

 

[KanyeWes]

You haven't even freakin' started med school yet! You know there are D.O. derm residencies, right?

I understand what you are saying, but I seriously have zero resources to this field. It looks like a dead end, esp when there are so many other more qualified people who are getting rejected left and right.

Also:
1) I am guessing that those derm spots will be closed in 4 years after the merger
2) I don't think do derm pds will be open to mds applying

 

[DermViser]

I understand what you are saying, but I seriously have zero resources to this field. It looks like a dead end, esp when there are so many other more qualified people who are getting rejected left and right.

Also:
1) I am guessing that those derm spots will be closed in 4 years after the merger
2) I don't think do derm pds will be open to mds applying

I don't believe those derm spots will be closed. Some maybe. No one really knows. Once they merge, everyone can apply everywhere. Before you look 50 steps ahead of you, considering you haven't even started MS-1 yet, look what's right in front of you first.

 

[KanyeWes]

I don't believe those derm spots will be closed. Some maybe. No one really knows. Once they merge, everyone can apply everywhere. Before you look 50 steps ahead of you, considering you haven't even started MS-1 yet, look what's right in front of you first.

lol, I haven't even taken the first step yet, other than selecting which school to go to.

either way, the school that I am going in has zero connections to derm. I don't want to gamble on something that I have almost zero chance of getting and would rather pick surgerical subspec because of my schools strong connections to it.

For what it is worth, I get a long waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better with dermatologists than surgeons. I think derm is bar none the best field, even if reimbursements might get slashed or the looming danger of encroachment from midlevels.

 

[asmallchild]

lol, I haven't even taken the first step yet, other than selecting which school to go to.

either way, the school that I am going in has zero connections to derm. I don't want to gamble on something that I have almost zero chance of getting and would rather pick surgerical subspec because of my schools strong connections to it.

For what it is worth, I get a long waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better with dermatologists than surgeons. I think derm is bar none the best field, even if reimbursements might get slashed or the looming danger of encroachment from midlevels.

As others have already mentioned, you are putting the cart before the horse. Whether you are choosing derm or a surgical subspecialty, you are looking at honoring most of the first 2 years and blowing Step 1 (or the DO exam equivalent) out of the water. At that time, you can re-examine what you "qualify" for. To look at how competitive a specialty is at this point is only going to drive you crazy. Focus on the task in front of you. Best of luck!