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apparently the cop can say what he wants...especially when the opposing party is dead
Ferguson ruling
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apparently the cop can say what he wants...especially when the opposing party is dead
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Esp. when the forensic evidence corroborates what the cop said: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...the-michael-brown-case-supported-the-officer/
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PGG, I suspect the reason the dispatcher in Cleveland did not relay that to the cops that the gun was probably fake was because of her SUBCONSCIOUS BIAS against black men.
All she heard was that there was a "black man waving a gun". That is all she needed to hear. The rest of the story filled itself in from her inherent bias (mostly influenced by upbringing, media, etc) that black men are dangerous. I doubt she even realizes this. Most people don't realize they have this inherent prejudice about Blacks due to growing up in such a racially divided country.
All she heard was that there was a "black man waving a gun". That is all she needed to hear. The rest of the story filled itself in from her inherent bias (mostly influenced by upbringing, media, etc) that black men are dangerous. I doubt she even realizes this. Most people don't realize they have this inherent prejudice about Blacks due to growing up in such a racially divided country.
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deleted171991
That still doesn't explain why anybody in their normal mind would kill a 12 year-old kid after 2 seconds, even one waving a gun but not shooting.
Especially since the cop responding to such a 911 call should wear a bulletproof vest.
Especially since the cop responding to such a 911 call should wear a bulletproof vest.
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Let's be honest and genuine here- there is a big difference among demographics in crime rates that can easily skew cop brutality statistics.
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You're an idiot. GL in life.
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deleted171991
Why does everything involving a black person have to be racially motivated?
Crime is related to poverty. Since poverty rates are much higher among blacks than whites, one would expect crime rates to be higher, too. Nothing racist in this.
Crime is related to poverty. Since poverty rates are much higher among blacks than whites, one would expect crime rates to be higher, too. Nothing racist in this.
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Actually, FFP, my "paranoia" has been proven by sociology and human development studies. People look at the black male and expect violence compared to the white male.
FACT, the cops were told that there was a "black male" aiming a gun at people by the dispatcher. The caller who called 911 said that the gun was "probably fake" twice and also stated that the man was "probably a juvenile". This information did not get relayed to the cops and all they knew was that there was a "black male". Not a black child.
One of the cops at the scene, after the kid had been shot called dispatch for help. He stated that a "black male, maybe twenty" was down and needed help.
That's what is being reported, and what some of the audio says happens.
AND, JUST BECAUSE I AM PARANOID, DOESN'T MEAN THEY AREN'T OUT TO GET US!! LOL.
Here are a couple of links for you to show where my "paranoia" comes from.
http://fairandimpartialpolicing.com/docs/pob5.pdf
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/...-so-deeply-american-that-we-dont-even-see-it/
FACT, the cops were told that there was a "black male" aiming a gun at people by the dispatcher. The caller who called 911 said that the gun was "probably fake" twice and also stated that the man was "probably a juvenile". This information did not get relayed to the cops and all they knew was that there was a "black male". Not a black child.
One of the cops at the scene, after the kid had been shot called dispatch for help. He stated that a "black male, maybe twenty" was down and needed help.
That's what is being reported, and what some of the audio says happens.
AND, JUST BECAUSE I AM PARANOID, DOESN'T MEAN THEY AREN'T OUT TO GET US!! LOL.
Here are a couple of links for you to show where my "paranoia" comes from.
http://fairandimpartialpolicing.com/docs/pob5.pdf
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/...-so-deeply-american-that-we-dont-even-see-it/
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deleted171991
chocomorsel, I am sorry, but I am the white "enemy". I am not even left-leaning.
Regardless what the policeman was told, what matters is what he saw. There is no way to confuse a 12 year-old kid with a full grown man, not from a few yards.
That doesn't mean that the police might not have a racial bias. It wouldn't be surprising in a country where the black population has a much higher percentage of people with criminal histories than the white one.
Regardless what the policeman was told, what matters is what he saw. There is no way to confuse a 12 year-old kid with a full grown man, not from a few yards.
That doesn't mean that the police might not have a racial bias. It wouldn't be surprising in a country where the black population has a much higher percentage of people with criminal histories than the white one.
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Go right ahead. You can be the "enemy" all you want.
You said it, not me.
You have never seen a teenager who looked much older than they actually were?
And yes, while there may be a higher percentage of black population with criminal histories in this country compared to whites, one needs to examine how that came to be. What social, economical, educational, political barriers over the past few hundred years led to this "higher rate". It's very complicated.
You said it, not me.
You have never seen a teenager who looked much older than they actually were?
And yes, while there may be a higher percentage of black population with criminal histories in this country compared to whites, one needs to examine how that came to be. What social, economical, educational, political barriers over the past few hundred years led to this "higher rate". It's very complicated.
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deleted171991
From your second link:
I would be a hypocrite to say this is not true (on both sides). But I am constantly amazed by the colorblindness of American kids. Biases can be treated with education and positive common experiences. The same way they can be reinforced growing up in a poor, frustrated and undereducated community.
Maybe we should continue this on a private thread. Too much sensitive politics for my taste.
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Yup, American kids, before they become adults are very color blind. Wish it would stay that way forever. But sadly it doesn't, However, things are improving.
Yup the biases go both ways.
Yup the biases go both ways.
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deleted171991
Absolutely. Indeed, some African-American kids are so well-developed physically they can look much older to an inexperienced eye, at first sight. The same way white people are bad at guessing the true age of Mongoloid Asian people.
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From your second link:
I would be a hypocrite to say this is not true (on both sides). But I am constantly amazed by the colorblindness of American kids. Biases can be treated with education and positive common experiences. The same way they can be reinforced growing up in a poor, frustrated and undereducated community.
Maybe we should continue this on a private thread. Too much sensitive politics for my taste.
It is a sensitive topic. I'm not white. My daughter is mixed race. When she was 3 yrs old, she wanted a particular doll. Being the procrastinator that I am, I waited until the last minute to go Christmas shopping. When I got to the store they had the brown version of the particular doll she wanted but not the white one. I purchased the brown doll for her. If you think kids are colorblind, try bringing a different race doll for your daughters. My own mixed race child was not colorblind at that early age. We all have biases whether we are aware of them or not.
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Wait, you present a misleading and dishonest statistic and are upset that the truth doesn't meet your PC agenda?
Listen, I am in agreement that the NYC killing is sketchy and needs further work up. Ferguson, not so much.
But please don't present a biased and factually misleading agenda. The reality is that the African American community struggles with being victims of violence, and it's ridiculous to pawn all of that or even the majority of it on cops. Until people work for and demand change lots of young blacks will lose their lives. Sad. In the middle of the Ferguson riots a black man was found dead in his car. But it's cool- the cops weren't involved so who cares, right? Just another young life lost.
But hey, let's have you get back to your cop bashin'. Stupid pigs.
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Nimbus, I think what FFP means is if you go to any pre school or primary school playground in any major city in the US, watch the younger kids, say less than say 7/8. You see so much intermingling among kids of all races. Even though the article above shows that the kids are more attracted to people of their own races as early as a few months of age, they still see other kids as just kids, not necessarily black kids, white kids, asian kids, arab kids, hispanic kids etc. Their prejudice is a lot less developed at the younger age. They just see other kids who want to play and be mischievous and have fun and they join in.
As they start aging, they get more cues from their families, from the Media, from their surrounding environment as to how different they really are from each other. By the time one gets to Middle school and High school one starts seeing the segregation among the races a heck of a lot more.
If only they stayed so innocent for the entirety of their lives.
It's interesting, on CNN's Black in America, they had all these black kids, showed them a cartoon drawing of the same figure but different shades of color. The black kids all had one thing in common. They proffered the lighter colored cartoon drawing and equated it to being a nicer looking person, more well liked person, a prettier person and not as mean as the brown/dark cartoons. So even the black community has it's own stereotypes against it's own people. As a Black person I have experienced it, participated in it subconsciously only to catch myself later and realize how prejudicial I was to my own people and actively try to change that. We have been brainwashed. It is so subconscious, it is scary. I didn't know about racism till I moved to this country. Of course in my country we had tribalism because we all spoke different languages, although we looked similar.
Anyone who grows up in this country and says they see no color is lying to themselves.
As they start aging, they get more cues from their families, from the Media, from their surrounding environment as to how different they really are from each other. By the time one gets to Middle school and High school one starts seeing the segregation among the races a heck of a lot more.
If only they stayed so innocent for the entirety of their lives.
It's interesting, on CNN's Black in America, they had all these black kids, showed them a cartoon drawing of the same figure but different shades of color. The black kids all had one thing in common. They proffered the lighter colored cartoon drawing and equated it to being a nicer looking person, more well liked person, a prettier person and not as mean as the brown/dark cartoons. So even the black community has it's own stereotypes against it's own people. As a Black person I have experienced it, participated in it subconsciously only to catch myself later and realize how prejudicial I was to my own people and actively try to change that. We have been brainwashed. It is so subconscious, it is scary. I didn't know about racism till I moved to this country. Of course in my country we had tribalism because we all spoke different languages, although we looked similar.
Anyone who grows up in this country and says they see no color is lying to themselves.
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deleted171991
Interesting perspective from Chris Rock:
http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/12/1/7313467/chris-rock-interview
"In New York magazine's new Q&A with Chris Rock, interviewer Frank Rich asked the comedian about issues ranging from the events in Ferguson, Missouri, to Bill Cosby's rape allegations. But perhaps the most insightful part of Rock's interview came when he dismantled the idea of "black progress":
Rock is essentially flipping the formula. It's not that black people as a whole have somehow changed and can now serve in the highest political office in the country. It's that enough white people — the majority of Americans — have shed their racist beliefs to vote in a black president."
http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/12/1/7313467/chris-rock-interview
"In New York magazine's new Q&A with Chris Rock, interviewer Frank Rich asked the comedian about issues ranging from the events in Ferguson, Missouri, to Bill Cosby's rape allegations. But perhaps the most insightful part of Rock's interview came when he dismantled the idea of "black progress":
When we talk about race relations in America or racial progress, it's all nonsense. There are no race relations. White people were crazy. Now they're not as crazy. To say that black people have made progress would be to say they deserve what happened to them before…
So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he's the first black person that is qualified to be president. That's not black progress. That's white progress. There's been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship's improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." It's not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner’s relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn't. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let's hope America keeps producing nicer white people.
So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he's the first black person that is qualified to be president. That's not black progress. That's white progress. There's been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship's improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." It's not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner’s relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn't. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let's hope America keeps producing nicer white people.
Rock is essentially flipping the formula. It's not that black people as a whole have somehow changed and can now serve in the highest political office in the country. It's that enough white people — the majority of Americans — have shed their racist beliefs to vote in a black president."
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Were white people really that crazy? And how far back does that extend? And why only to white people when people of all colors have been slave owners (even in the 20th century)?
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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/stop-stealing-my-money.916579/#post-12561932
Surprised these jokers weren't shot or strangled. Wonder what race they are.
Surprised these jokers weren't shot or strangled. Wonder what race they are.
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At the risk of plummeting headfirst into the ****storm that is this thread...
http://regressing.deadspin.com/deadspin-police-shooting-database-update-were-still-go-1627414202
I thought this was interesting. A database documenting police shootings over the last 4 years. Granted, the database is a work in progress and there may be many shootings unlisted as of yet. With that said, when sorted by race, we see that roughly 490 victims were white, vs roughly 340 black victims.
Police corruption, abuse of power, acquittal from responsibility are all very real, no doubt. I'm not saying we should trust all police officers, or even our govt. Even 'good' cops are not perfect. But for those who bother to look at the numbers, the argument of racial bias against black people is a bit hard to swallow.
http://regressing.deadspin.com/deadspin-police-shooting-database-update-were-still-go-1627414202
I thought this was interesting. A database documenting police shootings over the last 4 years. Granted, the database is a work in progress and there may be many shootings unlisted as of yet. With that said, when sorted by race, we see that roughly 490 victims were white, vs roughly 340 black victims.
Police corruption, abuse of power, acquittal from responsibility are all very real, no doubt. I'm not saying we should trust all police officers, or even our govt. Even 'good' cops are not perfect. But for those who bother to look at the numbers, the argument of racial bias against black people is a bit hard to swallow.
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Can you provide some documentation that the dispatcher was white? I can't say I've seen that reported anywhere.
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Not that that data is that great, but how do you conclude that? Blacks make up about 14% of the population and get shot at a WAY higher rate than that according to those figures.
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I agree with everyone.
Anyway, why didn't Wilson have a Taser?
Anyway, why didn't Wilson have a Taser?
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The assertion that is constantly being shoved down our throats by black activists, mainstream media, protesters, etc. is that due to inherent racial prejudices in the police force, there is a disproportionately high incidence of police brutality against black people. In other words, among the number of total victims of police brutality, there is a disproportionately higher number/percentage of black victims when compared to other races. It is all about the ratio black victims:all victims, not black victims:black population.
As for the data, I completely agree that it's 'not that great'. You can thank our shady govt for not leaving any records, saving themselves from embarrassment while throwing everybody else under the bus. It is only due to grassroots efforts like this that even a glimpse of the facts are being revealed.
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Jwk, hmm. Even us black folk have been brainwashed, by the media against other black folk. However, had she been black she would most likely have relayed the info that the suspect was a black male to the police. Very good chance she wasn't black. I don't have proof though.
TrippleAAA, that is your and many others' interpretation of the numbers. My interpretation, as a black person, and that of many others as well, is that for every 14 black people killed by the police, there should be about 60 white folks killed. Those numbers you provided should then speak for themselves as they show that it is absolutely not the case.
TrippleAAA, that is your and many others' interpretation of the numbers. My interpretation, as a black person, and that of many others as well, is that for every 14 black people killed by the police, there should be about 60 white folks killed. Those numbers you provided should then speak for themselves as they show that it is absolutely not the case.
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You make the assumption that all races behave similarly under the law. By that logic, only 14% of violent criminals should be black, instead of 28%. (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...he-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf)
Violent criminals are more likely to be killed by the police than those who are law abiding citizens.
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Do you honestly believe, as an adult human being living in the US, that black people are treated the same as white people by the justice system, either at the street level, trial level, OR penalty level? I promise you they're not.
I'm not arguing that that is an excuse to disrespect the law. If people want to improve their lot they have to overcome whatever hinders them, whether fair or not. I don't like dudes like Sharpton who ONLY look at blame, because it gives the impression that white people have control over black people's future, which just reinforces to a lot of people that it's a white country, so why try? I wish the emphasis was on education and working to achieve positions of power, with an understanding that there WILL be bad guys that try to stop you just because of your race. Help each other out, become a boss, and make those changes from above.
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Thanks Pooh. You beat me to it in your first paragraph.
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Well then, by your own numbers, the ratio should at least be 1:2 for black:white people killed by police.
Checkmate.
Yet you continue to be blind and try to rationalize your reasoning.
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By my own numbers:
The ratio of violent criminals (white:black) is approximately 7:3. (Yes, I realize I'm rounding up, slightly, for the sake of discussion, so bear with me). The rate of police shootings based on my above numbers (also white:black) is about 6:4. If we look at the black fractions, one could conclude that for every 4 black citizens killed by the police, 3 have committed violet crimes (75%). As for the other 25%, I can only speculate. Perhaps due to failure to cooperate (ie, reaching for one's belt instead of hands up), poorly trained police officers (as in Cleveland). I do admit to some degree, racism may have a part in some of these.
Also, I never said that racism doesn't exist in this country. I do believe that there are racial biases in the police department. However, I do not believe that it plays nearly as much of a role as the media would like us to believe. 75% of blacks killed were likely involved in some sort of violent crime. 25% is a minority. It's not insignificant, but its a minority nonetheless. Even then, I do not think all of those deaths are due to racism, primarily. I do not believe that the 12 year old in Cleveland was killed by racism, but rather by an officer who was mentally unstable, poorly trained, and had no business holding a gun in the first place. I do not believe that selling cigarettes untaxed should be a crime punishable by jail in the first place, so I do believe that the unfortunate gentleman from NYC did die in vain.
Finally, I think its bull**** that a police officer can kill anybody, even if they were 'acting appropriately', and get off without so much as an indictment. If any of us as physicians ever killed a patient, even if we were following standards of care, we sure as hell could expect a summons to court. It shouldn't be any different for anybody else, police or otherwise.
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Honestly, I think you make a lot of good points here. As I mentioned above, I do not believe that any 2 races are treated the same by the police, or anybody else for that matter. I do agree that guys like Sharpton, and many other media figures, do make racism out to be a bigger force than it actually is.
While we may never be able to eliminate racism (or any type of prejudice) from our society, I can only share your hope that someday the changes will come from above. There will always be bad guys out there, but hopefully they will become the minority.
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deleted171991
Quite persuasive:
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deleted480308
The zimmerman trial did not end with the wrong decision.
She's wrong about officers being more likely to shoot black citizens in studies... http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/?page=all
She's also wrong about drug involvement for Mike Brown.
I agree with her about eric garner and tamir rice.
I agree with her on officer cameras and special prosecutors
She's making an unsubstantiated claim that white people are inherently more biased
She's wrong about officers being more likely to shoot black citizens in studies... http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/?page=all
She's also wrong about drug involvement for Mike Brown.
I agree with her about eric garner and tamir rice.
I agree with her on officer cameras and special prosecutors
She's making an unsubstantiated claim that white people are inherently more biased
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Bro did you even read up on theThe link you posted above, because if you did the first thing that will jump out at you is clearly how unreliable it is.... they did a survey of 300 policemen who answered that they are more hesitant to pull the trigger on a black suspect, go figure. OF COURSE THEY SAID THAT!! what else do you expect them to say given all the racial tension going on between the police depts and black community..and most people who are racist (black or white) will never admit it and may not even know it. And oh i believe survey is the most unreliable/bias form of statistical study.
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deleted480308
You didn't read the article thoroughly. It clearly references a shooting drill study that was published (i believe in the journal of experimental criminology) I know because I read the study back when it was published. i can't link it from my phone, but will later if I can remember.
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https://news.vice.com/article/study-claims-cops-are-more-willing-to-shoot-white-people-than-blacks
The above is the link you referring to. Its inherently bias once again, its a video simulation (not much better than survey) with 100 participants (very small sample size)...plus we dont know how the participants are chose. Either way, a good number of them could just be pulling trigger less on black suspect because they dont want to appear bias. But what i thought was really interesting and the key point in article is that when faced with black suspect their level of anxiety was higher than when suspect was white...so boom right there, stop and ask yourself why??? And bro had it been a real life scenario that increase anxiety translates to pulling trigger faster (i.e tamir rice RIP)...because it was a fake simulation with no real threat, they simply panic and thought about their action a little longer because of the social implications and interpretation that they they maybe bias and hence the hesitation in shooting black suspect....again in a real life scenario with real threat, you could careless how society is going to view you, your increase anxiety will make you pull that trigger faster because you saying to yourself i gotta get home safely to my loved ones.
But the real question is why would the anxiety level be higher upon viewing a black suspect vs any other group? its a rhetorical question.
Lastly the person who conducted the research said in the article "There's an unarguable problem that minorities are overrepresented in officer-involved shootings," James said
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Just a rhetorical question - if the study had showed black suspects were shot more frequently and more quickly than white suspects, would it still be a crap study or would you be waving it as solid "proof" that a problem exists?
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well if you really understood my comments above, you wouldn't be asking that question. But let me put it this way, if this simulation was ran in early 1900...when the consequences of killing a "black" person was nonexistent (i.e Emmet Till) the study would've undoubtedly found that trigger was pulled on black suspect...in "post racial" modern day america, the study showed an hesitation in pulling trigger because of social implication (which the researcher alluded to)....but either way, all this studies are flawed in my opinion, so i will probably be just as critical of the methodology and inherent biases in this study even if it "proof" that blacks are triggered down faster than nonblacks....but what i will encourage you to believe, more than a fake study, is what actually happens in the real world. Im pretty sure if a 12yr old white kid was gunned down within 2 seconds of police arrival, that story would've made national news...but yet we dont see that happening. Like my AP English told me in high school "racism is real, race is not"
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The Tamir Rice shooting isn't national news?
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deleted480308
She said studies show that black people are shot faster, I just showed a contrasting study result. I think it's also possible that the apprehension to fire for fear of looking racist couldbe contributing to the increased apprehension when coming across a black suspect in the simulation. I'm not saying the study doesn't have weaknesses...just saying not all studies agree with her statement.
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No you misunderstood my statement, im saying IT IS national news and that if tamir rice was white it would also be national news...BUT the fact that there hasn't been a reported case of a 12 yr old white kid being gunned down in 2 seconds leads me to believe its because such incidents dont exist or close to nonexistent (thus giving credence to those who believe our justice system is failing its black citizens)....because again if tamir rice was white it would ve equally made nationally news just like in the case of tamir rice the black kid from Cleveland.
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True
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Dude, you're really grasping at straws and making nonsensical arguments. Tamir Rice was black and made the national news but if he was white he would also make the national news. ????? So there hasn't been reported case of a 12 yr old white kid gunned down in 2 seconds (at least that you're aware of) so your n=1 of a 12 yr old black kid being gunned down means the justice system is failing ?????
The Tamir Rice incident was a tragedy - it shouldn't have happened. It's that simple.
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he
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J
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Interestingly enough, a white male by the name of Dillon Taylor was gunned down by police 2 days after Ferguson. He was unarmed (also hadn't assaulted a police officer or robbed a convenience store) and the police officer was a minority. Since you imply the reports are racially unbiased, why have most people never heard of Dillon Taylor? The only reason I know are from articles that claim hypocrisy. Otherwise, the news never made it out of Utah. Why is that?
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