First post, calling all the veterans!

[AccessoryNavicular]

Hey all!

I've been a part of SDN from the shadows (aka never posted) for several years now. At this point, I need some help and was hoping that I could get some good, honest, and constructive advice from my peers.

I graduated from my undergrad institution in 2014 (top 25 school nationally). I pursued a science based major history based minor and maintained average grades, much below average for medical school. My cGPA was a 3.03. I do have an upward trend during my senior year with my last semester resulting in me being on the dean's list with a 3.75. However, there isn't any real rhyme or rhythm to most of my transcript. I did poorly (Cs) in some prerequisite classes, for instance chemistry, but then I got As in upper level science classes like biochemistry and neurobiology.

I took my MCAT near the end of my senior year of college, right after winter break and, although I knew the material, I hadn't practiced at all for the critical thinking aspects of the test (which is what the MCAT really is testing).

Since being out of school, I have been scribing for over year in a private practice setting. I retook my mcat this past January after focusing on critical thinking and test taking strategies and scored a 33 .

I completed my AMCAS and recently had it verified. My cGPA on my AMCAS is a 3.1 and my sGPA is a 3.0 which is very low. I am enrolled in an SMP.

Schools I am applied to:

CWRU, Drexel, EVMS, Emory, Dartmouth, GWU, Gtown, Howard, NYMC, NW, Penn State, RFU, SLU, Sidney Kimmel, Miami, Tufts, Tulane, Cincinnati, UVA, VCU, V-tech, Wake Forest, Warren Alpert

LORS: should all be quite good, 5 (research prof , biochem and orgo 2 prof and friend, minor advisor, pre-health advisor, MD doctor I've scribed with extensively for a year)

Would love to hear how you think I am doing, what my steps should be in the near future, other places I should consider applying, and general thoughts about the strength of my application and how I can continue to improve it. Oh, also I am not a re-applicant. Thank you!

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[WedgeDawg]

Quick clarification question for you - are you applying to medical school right now or at the end of your Georgetown SMP?

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

Applying for admission in 2016

 

[Soilworkgmbh]

I'm also confused, says you're attending GTown SMP in the fall, but you're verified on AMCAS. Is it your fallback plan? Because there's not enough time to do both, admissions interviews will start after August when classes begin

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

Sorry. To clarify, I am attending Gtown during 2015-16. Applied for MD admissions in 2016. So I will be doing the SMP starting this August and then hopefully matriculating in 2016 after I graduate from the SMP.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Okay, well the biggest problem with your application is your GPA, though you have clearly figured that out and are taking steps to improve it by doing a postbacc. The rest of your app looks quite solid (other than the IAs, but they seem to be something involving typical college stupidity rather than cheating or something more worrisome, and as long as you admit you were stupid and can show how you've grown and moved past them I wouldn't worry too much about them).

At this point you should 100% be focusing on destroying the SMP with extremely high grades (As and A-s). That will rectify the biggest worry about your app and should mean that you have a good shot at an MD acceptance. Your experiences look great and I'm sure you have a lot of good things to talk about.

School list looks decent, though I would remove Brown (3% interview rate - that's lower than Harvard's overall acceptance rate), Case, Dartmouth, and Emory are definitely reaches for you but you probably know that, as is UVA, but I imagine you know that too. You could throw in Quinnipiac if you want.

I think, providing you do well in your SMP, you should have a reasonable shot at MD. Best of luck fellow Virginian!

 

[WedgeDawg]

Sorry. To clarify, I am attending Gtown during 2015-16. Applied for MD admissions in 2016. So I will be doing the SMP starting this August and then hopefully matriculating in 2016 after I graduate from the SMP.

So this is problematic because you'll be applying with your 3.0 gpa - schools aren't going to see your new SMP gpa, so then what's the point of doing the SMP? It would be worth waiting a year for your SMP grades because with a 3.0 your chances plummet significantly.

 

[Soilworkgmbh]

As the above poster mentioned, I would work on crushing SMP. The problem is they won't see anything you do in your SMP on this application cycle. And as above poster also mentioned, your GPA looks like the limiting factor here, rest looks spot on. I just don't know if many programs will consider interviews with it. I would go as far as saying you shouldn't spend precious money on applying, crush SMP, and reapply for 2017

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

Okay, well the biggest problem with your application is your GPA, though you have clearly figured that out and are taking steps to improve it by doing a postbacc. The rest of your app looks quite solid (other than the IAs, but they seem to be something involving typical college stupidity rather than cheating or something more worrisome, and as long as you admit you were stupid and can show how you've grown and moved past them I wouldn't worry too much about them).

At this point you should 100% be focusing on destroying the SMP with extremely high grades (As and A-s). That will rectify the biggest worry about your app and should mean that you have a good shot at an MD acceptance. Your experiences look great and I'm sure you have a lot of good things to talk about.

School list looks decent, though I would remove Brown (3% interview rate - that's lower than Harvard's overall acceptance rate), Case, Dartmouth, and Emory are definitely reaches for you but you probably know that, as is UVA, but I imagine you know that too. You could throw in Quinnipiac if you want.

I think, providing you do well in your SMP, you should have a reasonable shot at MD. Best of luck fellow Virginian!

Thanks WedgeDawg. Acing the SMP is the plan, although easier said than done . I sincerely appreciate the well wishes!

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

As the above poster mentioned, I would work on crushing SMP. The problem is they won't see anything you do in your SMP on this application cycle. And as above poster also mentioned, your GPA looks like the limiting factor here, rest looks spot on. I just don't know if many programs will consider interviews with it. I would go as far as saying you shouldn't spend precious money on applying, crush SMP, and reapply for 2017

Thanks for the reply Soilworkgmbh! You know, I had actually strongly considered doing it this way because of the sheer cost of applying (I had no idea how expensive this whole process was and I do not make much money being a scribe ) However, after discussing this with the gtown people, they insisted I apply and they strongly advise everybody with over a 31 mcat to apply the year they are in the SMP. The rationale is that the courses are taken one at a time for med courses and are in 4 week blocks. So, for instance, I will have to med school course grades by October already and can report these to schools. They also update schools - a personal letter writer gets assigned to each student before they enter the program.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Thanks for the reply Soilworkgmbh! You know, I had actually strongly considered doing it this way because of the sheer cost of applying (I had no idea how expensive this whole process was and I do not make much money being a scribe ) However, after discussing this with the gtown people, they insisted I apply and they strongly advise everybody with over a 31 mcat to apply the year they are in the SMP. The rationale is that the courses are taken one at a time for med courses and are in 4 week blocks. So, for instance, I will have to med school course grades by October already and can report these to schools. They also update schools - a personal letter writer gets assigned to each student before they enter the program.

I don't think Georgetown gave you good advice. Waiting to apply would be smarter, more efficient, and more cost effective.

 

[Soilworkgmbh]

Sadly I agree, you want to apply one time and one time only. Reapplicants, at least statistically, have lower chances than first time applicants. It sucks to think about waiting basically 2 years, but it's very worth it, and you'll likely have more acceptances if you wait until after you crush your SMP.

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

I don't think Georgetown gave you good advice. Waiting to apply would be smarter, more efficient, and more cost effective.

I can understand that sentiment. They do have good success with getting students into medical school during the SMP year, although I know there are a myriad of factors that play into that kind of thing.

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

If i rescind my application, do I get my money back? If not then I simply can't justify it since I have already completed some secondaries at this point. I also passed a few of the schools that pre-screen, although I doubt that means little. I understand my chances would be MUCH better with the SMP under my belt, assuming I do well.

 

[Soilworkgmbh]

If i rescind my application, do I get my money back? If not then I simply can't justify it since I have already completed some secondaries at this point. I also passed a few of the schools that pre-screen, although I doubt that means little. I understand my chances would be MUCH better with the SMP under my belt, assuming I do well.

Not totally familiar, you would have to do some reading. I'm guessing you're probably committed at this point. Welp, give it a whirl and prove us wrong! Update us on this thread eh?

Edit: double check with schools to see if AMCAS application = counts as application attempt, or if secondary submission counts as application attempt... This might be worth looking into.

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

Not totally familiar, you would have to do some reading. I'm guessing you're probably committed at this point. Welp, give it a whirl and prove us wrong! Update us on this thread eh?

Edit: double check with schools to see if AMCAS application = counts as application attempt, or if secondary submission counts as application attempt... This might be worth looking into.

I think it counts as schools having received the AMCAS! Thank you for the constructive comments soilworkgmbh! Just read Dr. Lacrosse's inspirational story and I'm all hyped up! I'm going to try and make my story a come from behind win too! I'll keep with the updates!

 

[Goro]

Agree 100%.

Okay, well the biggest problem with your application is your GPA, though you have clearly figured that out and are taking steps to improve it by doing a postbacc. The rest of your app looks quite solid (other than the IAs, but they seem to be something involving typical college stupidity rather than cheating or something more worrisome, and as long as you admit you were stupid and can show how you've grown and moved past them I wouldn't worry too much about them).

At this point you should 100% be focusing on destroying the SMP with extremely high grades (As and A-s). That will rectify the biggest worry about your app and should mean that you have a good shot at an MD acceptance. Your experiences look great and I'm sure you have a lot of good things to talk about.

School list looks decent, though I would remove Brown (3% interview rate - that's lower than Harvard's overall acceptance rate), Case, Dartmouth, and Emory are definitely reaches for you but you probably know that, as is UVA, but I imagine you know that too. You could throw in Quinnipiac if you want.

I think, providing you do well in your SMP, you should have a reasonable shot at MD. Best of luck fellow Virginian!

 

[casualrunner001]

I think it counts as schools having received the AMCAS! Thank you for the constructive comments soilworkgmbh! Just read Dr. Lacrosse's inspirational story and I'm all hyped up! I'm going to try and make my story a come from behind win too! I'll keep with the updates!

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/amcas/faqs/301606/amiareapplicanttoallschools.html
Yeah, you definitely will be a reapp to those 22 schools. I think the gray area is whether schools consider you a reapp even if you didn't submit the $37 on AMCAS just because they can tell from your older aamc ID or because they specifically ask "have you previously applied to any med schools". I think that those schools are the minority though.

The 2 things that I would consider for continuing the cycle or not are: whether you will be able to finish all the secondaries before the smp starts (I dragged on until December last year. bad idea...) and whether you are willing to rewrite all 22 secondaries from scratch next cycle (reusing seems to be frowned upon and some places compare with previous year's), especially since you probably won't have anything added to your app other than grades.

Also, I've heard that Georgetown's SMP is VERY hard. if you think that you'll be able to get ii's using only grades up to October, then that might be something worth considering because 4.0 for 3 months is more achievable than 4.0 for the whole year.

edit: typo

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

@ casualrunner001

Thank you for your advice! You said that your secondaries dragged on into December... did you also complete an SMP (and if yes how did things work out for you?

I've done a lot of reading up on SMPs, post-baccs and other non-trad routes and I settled on the SMP because I am confident that I can perform at a high level in medical and upper level science courses. period. I know this is a last shot kind of deal but I know my caliber, have learned from my mistakes in undergrad, and (after 1 year out of school) am ready to get back into things and give it my undivided attention.

I wanted to thank everybody else for giving their input. For everyone who has already commented and others who read this thread, I still have a few questions:

Although everything I read seems to indicate that certain SMP programs have decent (some as high as 50 percent) turnover rates into MD programs during the SMP year (assuming one does well), it seems to be commonly thought by the members of SDN that applying during the SMP year is a bad idea. I know that getting into medical school during the SMP year will require some serious commitment and dedication but is it impossible? What can I do to strengthen my app in the meantime to draw more consideration? What kinds of things should I touch upon in the open secondary essays that may allow schools to think about considering me?

Thank you!

 

[Doug Underhill]

You should look into Meharry and Morehouse in addition to Howard, which is a good pick. I don't know if you're non-trad enough for Brown: they like guitar players, however.

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Given the URM status I'm not sure if there was a need for an SMP. A year of post-bacc such as staying in your undergrad school and getting high grades to boost your GPA to 3.2 territory and that combined with a 31 would have made you competitive. But alas besides the point

Given the 31 MCAT and URM status I don't think it's a terrible idea to apply during the year like G'town said. People involved in G'town SMPs have far more experience about success of people applying during SMP programs than we do(and the G'town SMP advisors unlike most pre-med advisors actually have a grasp of what's going on). But above all else like everyone else has said the need to do well in the SMP is absolutely a must. You've already taken a risk going this harder route when a post-bacc would have been easier for good grades. But if you do well, you will have II's lined up. Good luck, let us know how it goes. I am in particular interested in what percent of SMP graduates(in this case G'town) end up at US MD programs within 2 years of graduating. I've heard widely conflicting numbers(G'town lists 85% of going to medical school but that isn't the same thing).

 

[AccessoryNavicular]

Thanks for the advice GrapesofRath! Although this may sound ill-advised, part of my reason for doing the Gtown program is that I know I can perform better than I did in undergrad and I wanted to put myself in an environment which is known to be competitive and difficult so that I can prove anybody who thinks I don't have the stuff wrong.

New advice since my last post: I realized that some of my science courses, specifically research courses, had been overlooked when calculating my sGPA. I submitted an academic change request and just got it approved.

New stats are as follows: 3.1 cGPA, 3.04 sGPA, 33 MCAT

Also ended up deciding not to complete secondaries at Case, UVA, Brown, and Boston. Also ended up adding Albany, U of Illinois, and Rush

 

[candbgirl]

Are you from Illinois? If not just a FYI their OOS tuition is ghastly high. What URM community do you represent?