For us who have 0 II's

[PotatoFarmerOnAPotatoFarm]

Hello, just wanted to start a thread to NORMALIZE having zero-II's for peeps like me who have heard back from zero schools since submitting my applications in July. Can this be a pure rant thread slash neuroticism pool? Maybe my email is broken? How are y'all feeling about all this? Anyone overanalyzing potential red flags in their app?

In all seriousness, hope y'all are taking care of yourselves. Eat well, sleep well, exercise, stay positive!! <3

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[_TheStruggl3_]

YOO my homie what's good. I was also complete in July, so I oscillate between telling myself it's early to reviewing my app with a magnifying glass. Our time will come. Who can say no to potatoes?

 

[LizzyM]

Here's where I introduce you newbies to the Thanksgiving Rule. That "rule" is that you should not worry about not having any interviews until after Thanksgiving. Isn't that why they call it Black Friday? Chill until then. It takes a long, long time to read several thousand applications and select a subset for interview.

 

[Gothpanic]

Right there with you. Honestly I keep doubting and questioning my app but I remember it's still early. Hopefully this limbo period will be over soon.

 

[LindaAccepted]

It is very early, way too early, to panic because you don't have an interview invitation. They are still going out. I have interviewed many med school admissions directors and most say they go out until early next year and the timing of the invitation doesn't reflect on your chances of acceptance.

FYI, I frequently ask admissions directors on our podcast when do they stop sending out interview invitations. So far, not one that I have interviewed says Thanksgiving. I don't even remember one that said end of year. I have not interviewed admissions directors for all med schools so it is possible that there are a few who stop sending earlier, but most stop somewhere between January and March.

The Thanksgiving Rule is useful in that it gives you applicants who do not receive an II by TG a break between completing secondaries and starting to think about the necessity of a reapplication. However, my view is that med school applicants, after taking a brief (like 1-2 weeks) break following the completion of secondaries, should be pursuing parallel tracks:

Track 1. Vigorously work to get accepted this cycle. As appropriate follow up with medical school that you have applied to. Some welcome updates and some strongly discourage them, and some welcome them at specific stages. Address weaknesses. Send updates as appropriate and when welcomed by the school. Attend all interviews until you have an acceptance, and do whatever you can to improve your qualifications and enhance your chances of acceptance this cycle. The last step also affects Track 2.

Track 2. Prepare for a reapplication in the event you are not accepted this cycle. Unless you are an extremely strong candidate, analyze your weaknesses both in terms of your qualifications and experience and the way you presented both via your application. And start to work on improving them so that if rejected, you can reapply next cycle or whatever cycle you feel gives you the best chance of achieving your goals.

In short, strive for acceptance and prepare for reapplication.

In the interim, I hope you hear good news starting with some II's and then an acceptance this cycle.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Adding to Linda is this SDN article. You'll notice in the graphic that interview days in the hypothetical example go to mid-March, but for some schools, the endpoint can be much later. The Thanksgiving rule is helpful for you to come to a point in assessing your application (and in deference that dental school offers are held off until December).

Interview invitations still go out when applicants finally decide to turn down invitations to interview because they have secured an offer from a school that is more highly preferred. Those of us who run interview days are like the airline agents who want to be sure every seat on the plane is full before take-off, including the middle seats and emergency exit seats. So as long as there are interview days, invitations to interview can be sent out, but they are not necessarily going to occur in "waves". That's why you have to take the dual strategy @LindaAccepted describes and most of us state.

 

[Gothpanic]

0 IIs and 1 pre-II hold from SUNY upstate. I know it's early still, but so many people already have IIs and stuff. I can't help but question my app (and my decision to apply in the first place). Anyone else?

 

[ese2]

No IIs here from a TMDSAS applicant that was complete early July. Starting to get real worried as most invites have already been sent for TMDSAS. Good luck to everyone, this whole process is definitely a struggle.

I don't think it's true that most TMDSAS IIs have been sent out. Probably more than most AMCAS schools but it's only early September.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

Don't fret. I applied 2 years ago to 25 schools. I got my first II in late September. Then IIs and As steadily trickled in until March. I ended up with 12 IIs and 7 As. The next 6 months will be long and difficult, but you will come out victorious.

 

[Gothpanic]

Don't fret. I applied 2 years ago to 25 schools. I got my first II in late September. Then IIs and As steadily trickled in until March. I ended up with 12 IIs and 7 As. The next 6 months will be long and difficult, but you will come out victorious.

Thank you thats great to know. I hope I get 1 II lol im starting to question my decision to even apply.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Don't fret. I applied 2 years ago to 25 schools. I got my first II in late September. Then IIs and As steadily trickled in until March. I ended up with 12 IIs and 7 As. The next 6 months will be long and difficult, but you will come out victorious.

needed to hear that...

 

[chilly_md]

0 IIs and 1 pre-II hold from SUNY upstate. I know it's early still, but so many people already have IIs and stuff. I can't help but question my app (and my decision to apply in the first place). Anyone else?

Don't fret. I applied 2 years ago to 25 schools. I got my first II in late September. Then IIs and As steadily trickled in until March. I ended up with 12 IIs and 7 As. The next 6 months will be long and difficult, but you will come out victorious.

Thank you thats great to know. I hope I get 1 II lol im starting to question my decision to even apply.

needed to hear that...

I have merged these posts to this more active thread about applicants with 0 IIs so far.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

You are not the only one. Have one rejection letter.

 

[RunningMSN]

Reinforcing that it is still extremely early. Here is a graph from CycleTrack showing interview invite reports throughout the 2022 application cycle. While this data is far from a perfect representation of the application cycle (especially for DO due to a relatively small sample size), it shows that we are only ~1/3 of the way through interview invitations.

 

[Gothpanic]

Reinforcing that it is still extremely early. Here is a graph from CycleTrack showing interview invite reports throughout the 2022 application cycle. While this data is far from a perfect representation of the application cycle (especially for DO due to a relatively small sample size), it shows that we are only ~1/3 of the way through interview invitations.

View attachment 359477

Thank you for this! based on the graph there's a steep upward trend in September and October so who knows.. maybe we'll hear good news in the upcoming weeks.

 

[K-Frog]

Unless you are an Early Decision applicant, you have lots of time!

But, I always say: Now is the time to be building your experiences for next year's application, just in case. Too many people don't do this and then apply the next cycle with nothing to improve their status.

 

[Gothpanic]

Unless you are an Early Decision applicant, you have lots of time!

But, I always say: Now is the time to be building your experiences for next year's application, just in case. Too many people don't do this and then apply the next cycle with nothing to improve their status.

Yeah thats what I'm doing currently. For some reason I'm weirdly paranoid about this cycle even though its early but who knows...

 

[Azeroth 96]

I finally found a thread that has my people! It's been radio silent for me since July too

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I didn’t get the II from the school that ultimately accepted me with a full tuition scholarship until January or so.

Many other schools who invited me much earlier didn’t accept me.

Keep your head up

 

[jademoon]

FINALLY found this thread It's rough out here sitting with a silent inbox while all my friends watch IIs (and holds and Rs) roll into their inbox. I get so uncomfortable when people ask me how this cycle is going and I quite literally have nothing to say because of the lack of updates. Glad to know I'm not the only one experiencing complete silence.

 

[LindaAccepted]

FINALLY found this thread It's rough out here sitting with a silent inbox while all my friends watch IIs (and holds and Rs) roll into their inbox. I get so uncomfortable when people ask me how this cycle is going and I quite literally have nothing to say because of the lack of updates. Glad to know I'm not the only one experiencing complete silence.

You're definitely not alone. Every year I get calls at this time of year -- sometimes from applicants and sometimes from parents -- about the deafening silence they are experiencing. It's tough, but hang in there and keep on striving to improve your qualifications so that if invited to interview, you'll have what to talk about and if rejected you'll be better positioned to reapply. Track 1 and Track 2 as I mentioned above.

 

[Elite Medical Prep]

I want to echo this. MANY medical students did not get their first II until October or later and you only need one! Keep your head and spirits up!

 

[deleted1079620]

I got my first secondary in December, II in January, interviewed early Feb and was accepted a week later. Keep your heads up!

 

[TheKid7Yessir]

Is it not true that people who apply early generally get early interview invites?

 

[EArlyBirdGetsTheWorm]

Is it not true that people who apply early generally get early interview invites?

I think it depends on the applicant. If a school is not interested in you whether you applied early or later, would not make a difference.
Ive seen some schools where I applied early already and ppl that applied almost a month later than me have already gotten II.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Is it not true that people who apply early generally get early interview invites?

They have the opportunity to get an early interview invitation, which the person who applies late obviously doesn't have, but they could get an II later.

 

[soontobedoc98]

Anyone have positive stories about an interview waitlist?

 

[TheKid7Yessir]

They have the opportunity to get an early interview invitation, which the person who applies late obviously doesn't have, but they could get an II later.

I am just referring to the sdn interview tracker data. If you look at most schools, the people who submitted in July cluster around the earlier interviews (Aug-Sep) and then there are barely and people who reported submitting in July and receiving interviews in Oct-Dec. Of course, this is just a sample of sdn students but I would guess it is fairly representative with the amount of data points there are.

 

[deleted1130038]

I am just referring to the sdn interview tracker data. If you look at most schools, the people who submitted in July cluster around the earlier interviews (Aug-Sep) and then there are barely and people who reported submitting in July and receiving interviews in Oct-Dec. Of course, this is just a sample of sdn students but I would guess it is fairly representative with the amount of data points there are.

yess see this is what ive been wondering!!!!! I got 4 ii in aug and 1 in early early sept (i think like the second or something), and im like................ i wonder if thats it? because all my interviews were the schools that were my best bet (stats a good fit, i fit their mission/what they like in an applicant) and im like huh i wonder if thats it

 

[LindaAccepted]

I am just referring to the sdn interview tracker data. If you look at most schools, the people who submitted in July cluster around the earlier interviews (Aug-Sep) and then there are barely and people who reported submitting in July and receiving interviews in Oct-Dec. Of course, this is just a sample of sdn students but I would guess it is fairly representative with the amount of data points there are.

Good point. there's obviously a correlation between application submission and interview invitations, but it's not perfect. It is possible to submit your app early and be invited to interview "late."

 

[TheKid7Yessir]

yess see this is what ive been wondering!!!!! I got 4 ii in aug and 1 in early early sept (i think like the second or something), and im like................ i wonder if thats it? because all my interviews were the schools that were my best bet (stats a good fit, i fit their mission/what they like in an applicant) and im like huh i wonder if thats it

Good point. there's obviously a correlation between application submission and interview invitations, but it's not perfect. It is possible to submit your app early and be invited to interview "late."

Of course the correlation is not perfect, but from all the data I have seen, it seems that the correlation is strong. When people incessantly say "it's still early" it really seems to be giving a false hope (at least that's my opinion). There is a chance that you may be the outlier but that seems far from pragmatic.

 

[deleted1130038]

Of course the correlation is not perfect, but from all the data I have seen, it seems that the correlation is strong. When people incessantly say "it's still early" it really seems to be giving a false hope (at least that's my opinion). There is a chance that you may be the outlier but that seems far from pragmatic.

i agree i feel like it works on a sliding scale, so this is actually "on time" for the early submitters, and the later dates are the people who were "on time submitters", and the way way later dates are for late submitters - and there are exceptions but thats the rule

 

[LindaAccepted]

Of course the correlation is not perfect, but from all the data I have seen, it seems that the correlation is strong. When people incessantly say "it's still early" it really seems to be giving a false hope (at least that's my opinion). There is a chance that you may be the outlier but that seems far from pragmatic.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Actually, I've encouraged SDN members to prepare for rejection and reapplication even as they work to get accepted this cycle. That's not giving false hope. I basically say assume you're rejected until accepted to a program that you'd be happy to (and can afford to) attend.

If someone wants to look at the stats and the fact that interview invitations are still going to go out for several months, and say due to the correlation between application submission and interview invitation extension, they're going to give up hope of an acceptance this cycle, that's a legitimate choice. I understand the logic behind it. However, I recommend that applicants pursue the parallel tracks described above to maximize their chances of acceptance earlier.

Frankly if one looks at acceptance rates and is concerned about "false hope," why apply at all? Keep in mind that (per U.S News) at 21 medical schools the acceptance rate is under 2% (At KP it's 1.1%) That doesn't stop people from applying to those programs. Should people be more realistic in their application choices, probably yes. But a lot of people apply in the hope that they will be one of the lucky 1-2% . 65 med schools have acceptance rates of under 5%. Are all these applicants to those schools irrational? Are they all basing their application decision on false hope? If so, there's a lot of (false) hope inherent in the application process. And we're not even talking about the fact that almost 60% of allopathic applicants are completely rejected every cycle to MD programs.

Again, I recommend parallel tracks.

 

[TheKid7Yessir]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Actually, I've encouraged SDN members to prepare for rejection and reapplication even as they work to get accepted this cycle. That's not giving false hope. I basically say assume you're rejected until accepted to a program that you'd be happy to (and can afford to) attend.

If someone wants to look at the stats and the fact that interview invitations are still going to go out for several months, and say due to the correlation between application submission and interview invitation extension, they're going to give up hope of an acceptance this cycle, that's a legitimate choice. I understand the logic behind it. However, I recommend that applicants pursue the parallel tracks described above to maximize their chances of acceptance earlier.

Frankly if one looks at acceptance rates and is concerned about "false hope, why apply at all. Keep in mind that (per U.S News) at 21 medical schools the acceptance rate is under 2% (At KP it's 1.1%) That doesn't stop people from applying to those programs. Should people be more realistic in their application choices, probably yes. But a lot of people apply in the hope that they will be one of the lucky 1-2% . 65 med schools have acceptance rates of under 5%. Are all these applicants to those schools irrational? Are they all basing their application decision on false hope? If so, there's a lot of (false) hope inherent in the application process. And we're not even talking about the fact that almost 60% of allopathic applicants are completely rejected every cycle to MD programs.

Again, I recommend parallel tracks.

Yes, an applicant who applies to a single school with a 2% chance sounds irrational. When you have an applicant who applies to 30 schools with a 2% chance, that it less irrational (.98%^30 gives you 54% chance of being rejected to all schools and a 46% chance of not being rejected to all schools, which now sounds a lot less irrational). You have to use the numbers correctly for it to make sense.

It is also not a personal attack. I am just sharing the data and trying to interpret it in a way that makes sense. I was not making any recommendations on what you should do about it. I just wanted to see if people agreed on the data and what the fact of the matter is.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Yes, an applicant who applies to a single school with a 2% chance sounds irrational. When you have an applicant who applies to 30 schools with a 2% chance, that it less irrational (.98%^30 gives you 54% chance of being rejected to all schools and a 46% chance of not being rejected to all schools, which now sounds a lot less irrational). You have to use the numbers correctly for it to make sense.

It is also not a personal attack. I am just sharing the data and trying to interpret it in a way that makes sense. I was not making any recommendations on what you should do about it. I just wanted to see if people agreed on the data and what the fact of the matter is.

Thanks for your response. I didn't take it as a personal attack as much as an opposing perspective. I realize that when one applies to 20 or 30 programs where each has a 1-2% chance of acceptance, the goal is to increase your chances of acceptance to at least 1 program. However, each individual program still has that low statistical chance of acceptance. And obviously the applicants' decision to apply and the schools' decisions are all independent events.

I hope you didn't take my response as a personal attack. I understand you are trying to make sense of the data. My point was and is that in this long and frustrating application process, it's wise to prepare for the worst, (rejection) and work towards the best (acceptance) until you have one or the other outcome.

I try to balance being both a pragmatist and an optimist.

 

[chilly_md]

Yes, an applicant who applies to a single school with a 2% chance sounds irrational. When you have an applicant who applies to 30 schools with a 2% chance, that it less irrational (.98%^30 gives you 54% chance of being rejected to all schools and a 46% chance of not being rejected to all schools, which now sounds a lot less irrational). You have to use the numbers correctly for it to make sense.

As an FYI, this math does not really apply. The admissions decisions are not necessarily independent of each other. There are many applicants that are rejected by all schools due to something that needs to seriously be fixed in their applications. And those applying to 20-30 research powerhouses when they are more suited for service-oriented schools with lower median stats will lead to all rejections nearly every time.

The AAMC grid would be a better starting point.

 

[thook]

Yes, an applicant who applies to a single school with a 2% chance sounds irrational. When you have an applicant who applies to 30 schools with a 2% chance, that it less irrational (.98%^30 gives you 54% chance of being rejected to all schools and a 46% chance of not being rejected to all schools, which now sounds a lot less irrational). You have to use the numbers correctly for it to make sense.

It is also not a personal attack. I am just sharing the data and trying to interpret it in a way that makes sense. I was not making any recommendations on what you should do about it. I just wanted to see if people agreed on the data and what the fact of the matter is.

Not really 46% because it’s not a random sample with everyone having a 2% chance — the same people are likely to get in at multiple hard to get into schools

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

Any mathematical chance of being accepted, outside of the AAMC grid? Or more detailed? One MCAT point on the grid can be a 12% difference.

 

[CanIBeAnonymous]

I submitted my primary application on October 28th. Got 3 As.

Obviously would never recommend doing this, and most certainly did affect my application cycle, but not having an II now means *nothing*

Relax, enjoy whatever you're doing this year

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Not really 46% because it’s not a random sample with everyone having a 2% chance — the same people are likely to get in at multiple hard to get into schools

It's also higher than 2% due to all the folks who don't complete secondaries. Given you submit the secondary. But also like you say it's prob highly correlated in rejections and accepts. The key is to have an in state situation that gives you one place with a 10% or a 40% (wyoming) acceptance probability. Good Thai places in Laramie. But yes if you think you might be in the correlated rejection part of the distribution, applying to 50 is completely sane, just to get the random component of the process on your side.

 

[chilly_md]

Any mathematical chance of being accepted, outside of the AAMC grid? Or more detailed? One MCAT point on the grid can be a 12% difference.

That gives you a good ballpark to start with. There are many components of an application and the WAMC forums on SDN are more suited for seeing how competitive someone is and which schools they should apply to.

 

[saltedcaramel20]

Does anyone have that small table that was on here recently that displayed the percentage of applicants and their corresponding number of II received?

 

[superdesperate]

The entire application cycle sucks. But I feel like those who are in the boat to becoming a reapplicant have it so much worse. How are you guys with no II's anywhere holding up right now? I personally have already gone through the five stages of grief and I'm happily at that point where I've accepted that I likely will not be getting in anywhere. It sucks but its a relief to know that because now I don't have to neurotically check my email or SDN. I'm also looking forward to taking a few more classes in Jan. since I miss being a student.

 

[chilly_md]

The entire application cycle sucks. But I feel like those who are in the boat to becoming a reapplicant have it so much worse. How are you guys with no II's anywhere holding up right now? I personally have already gone through the five stages of grief and I'm happily at that point where I've accepted that I likely will not be getting in anywhere. It sucks but its a relief to know that because now I don't have to neurotically check my email or SDN. I'm also looking forward to taking a few more classes in Jan. since I miss being a student.

I have moved your post to this existing discussion.

 

[PotatoFarmerOnAPotatoFarm]

Y'all, I still haven't heard back from around 25 out of the 32 schools I applied to... Is anyone else in the same boat? I was complete late July to mid August. :/

 

[TakingItOneDayAtATime]

Y'all, I still haven't heard back from around 25 out of the 32 schools I applied to... Is anyone else in the same boat? I was complete late July to mid August. :/

Sitting on a single hold and 1 pre-II R. Other than that nothing - gotta keep that positive mental attitude. Take some mental time off to enjoy the holidays with your family and friends, I know I am gonna try to!

 

[FutureDrCoochies]

Y'all, I still haven't heard back from around 25 out of the 32 schools I applied to... Is anyone else in the same boat? I was complete late July to mid August. :/

i only heard from 4 schools. all rejections. cycle isn't over yet but it's hard to keeping hoping. especially when others have multiple acceptances in hand

 

[ron_johnson]

9 rejections no IIs. sad.

 

[sonder88]

Not sure what to do, second time applying with no good results

 

[soontobedoc98]

Not sure what to do, second time applying with no good results

Applied DO?