PhD/PsyD Forensic Psychology – Questions about the field

[TA5420]

Hi all,

I was wondering if someone could explain to me the differences in job prospects for different degrees. The degrees in question are:

- Master’s in forensic psychology

- Ph.D. in forensic psychology

- Ph.D. in clinical psychology (with forensic concentration/internship placement and ABPP/ABFP certification)

I was under the impression that when someone speaks of forensic psychology they are typically speaking about clinical forensic psychology. However, I’m increasingly becoming aware of the popularity of master’s and PhDs in forensic psychology. What do people with these degrees do? Since they’re not licensed psychologists, that rules out all the clinical/assessment aspects that I typically associate with the field. What do people do with these degrees? Do they just research?

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[cara susanna]

My dept actually had a Master's in forensic psychology program and not even the professors knew what they did with it. Everyone I personally know went on to get their doctorate. All of the forensic psychologists I know are PhDs in clinical.

 

[Sanman]

My dept actually had a Master's in forensic psychology program and not even the professors knew what they did with it. Everyone I personally know went on to get their doctorate. All of the forensic psychologists I know are PhDs in clinical.

Contributed to the growing student loan debt crisis. We must all do our part.

OP, this is a good question and one that not enough people ask prior to enrolling. I know a few folks with masters that went into law enforcement/corrections.

 

[PsyDuck90]

My dept actually had a Master's in forensic psychology program and not even the professors knew what they did with it. Everyone I personally know went on to get their doctorate. All of the forensic psychologists I know are PhDs in clinical.

Everyone I know with a master's in forensic psychology either went on to a PhD/PsyD in Clinical Psychology to practice in the field or became a law enforcement officer. My undergrad institution offered an MA in forensic psych, and the FBI often recruited field agents from there. I do know 1 person who became a private investigator, so kind of a fun twist on the LEO career path.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Hi all,

I was wondering if someone could explain to me the differences in job prospects for different degrees. The degrees in question are:

- Master’s in forensic psychology

- Ph.D. in forensic psychology

- Ph.D. in clinical psychology (with forensic concentration/internship placement and ABPP/ABFP certification)

I was under the impression that when someone speaks of forensic psychology they are typically speaking about clinical forensic psychology. However, I’m increasingly becoming aware of the popularity of master’s and PhDs in forensic psychology. What do people with these degrees do? Since they’re not licensed psychologists, that rules out all the clinical/assessment aspects that I typically associate with the field. What do people do with these degrees? Do they just research?

n=1
My niece got a MA in Forensic Psychology and here is what she said about it when I asked her what she was doing with it these days.
“Hello! Well I wouldn’t say my job is specifically related to forensic psychology haha but I’m an Adult Protective Services Investigator with the state.

I was looking for jobs with any sort of psychology/criminal justice/policy overlap. I accepted this job because I felt that the investigative aspect was interesting, it wasn’t case management, a psych background is very helpful, and I could very well end up testifying if a case of mine was substantiated (although this is rare). Also working for the state was a perk.

If you don’t go the doctoral route (which I didn’t at the time and don’t currently but am always open to in the back of my mind) then I think finding a job specifically in forensic psychology could be difficult because it’s a newer focus. But I pursued that degree because the intersection of psychology and the criminal justice system is interesting to me. And like I said, my main interests are policy, criminal justice, and psychology so I was just trying my best to find a spot somewhere amongst those wheels.“

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

To the best of my knowledge, the masters in forensic psych is not licensable and it doesn't have a clear career path other than going on to a clinical/counseling doctoral program. I guess you can pivot to something else, but most of the programs I've seen are basically profit producers for their Universities.

As for forensic psychology, there are a lot of different niches, hopefully some ppl will share about their training paths and what they do now. I'm a neuropsychologist doing primarily brain injury assessment, consultation, and expert witness work. So my involvement with the court system is only as an expert witness, though most of my cases settle prior to trial...so it's mostly report writing and sometimes depositions. It's mostly neuropsych eval, though sometimes also pain psych. Basically I eval ppl who have been injured and testify as an expert.

My fellowship was in rehab & neuropsych, so I only work in a sliver of the range of work in forensics. Ppl with a fellowship in forensics would have a broader range of experience and areas of practice. Child custody evaluation, competency cases, re-offender risk assessment, in prisons doing therapy and maybe assessment? I don't know much about prison/correction facility work, so hopefully others can chime in.

 

[bluecolourskies]

Sometimes people will work in corrections with a masters degree in forensic psychology (as a therapist). I heard in some states, those with masters and "qualified training" can do certain types of evals. Don't ask me what states but I have seen this thrown out by people who say they have been board certified by this and do "forensic assessments" with just a masters National Board of Forensic Evaluators, Inc. - Home

National Association of Forensic Counselors - NAFC Certifications Offered, Requirements and Applications

Certification for Forensic Counselors, Criminal Justice Specialists, and Human Trafficking Victims

www.forensiccounselor.org

 

[allantois]

Everyone and their mother is gonna want to be a forensic psychologist after JD trial

 

[WisNeuro]

Everyone and their mother is gonna want to be a forensic psychologist after JD trial

The more the merrier, people who don't know what they're doing makes some of our jobs easier and justifies my rates to my clients when they see how poorly some of these people operate.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Become a good solid generalist first. Then seek out training (ie advanced practicum, internship, formal fellowship, shadowing seasoned practitoners, etc.) This is the way.

 

[PsyDr]

1) MA in Forensic Psychology- People who unknowingly suffer from hybriastophilia. Like the girl who was into horses in grade school, I'm sure you could figure out the causes of behavior, but why would you want to? How much can you learn about lonely nights, watching the ID channel under a snuggie?
2) PhD in Forensic Psychology- Because the APA doesn't accredit those, you know that you're likely dealing with someone who went to an online school.
3) PhD in Clinical Psychology with a forensic focus- The people who went down the accepted route, and maybe became one of the 100 ABFP people in the nation. Super nice people.

Forensic psychology is just the application of clinical psychology to the legal system. As legal matters were settled in the Roman forum, it's called "forensics".

 

[TA5420]

I appreciate all the responses! For reference, I am an incoming student in a clinical psychology PhD program. When I was speaking with my undergraduate mentor about feeling like I needed to attend a program that would position me well for forensic predoctoral internship placement, my mentor said something along the lines of “well, virtually anyone can call themselves a forensic psychologist.” However, my mentor is a social psychologist, so I don’t think they understood that there are requirements one must satisfy to become a clinical forensic psychologist, compared to an experimental psychologist who studies forensic topics and can therefore call themself a “forensic psychologist.” This got me thinking about the lack of regulation in forensics, and I began to wonder what people who study forensics without the clinical aspect (i.e., someone who obtained a forensic psychology PhD with no clinical aspect) do with their degrees.

 

[cara susanna]

Good point - I know experimental psychologists who specialize in forensic research, and they are considered forensic.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I appreciate all the responses! For reference, I am an incoming student in a clinical psychology PhD program. When I was speaking with my undergraduate mentor about feeling like I needed to attend a program that would position me well for forensic predoctoral internship placement, my mentor said something along the lines of “well, virtually anyone can call themselves a forensic psychologist.” However, my mentor is a social psychologist, so I don’t think they understood that there are requirements one must satisfy to become a clinical forensic psychologist, compared to an experimental psychologist who studies forensic topics and can therefore call themself a “forensic psychologist.” This got me thinking about the lack of regulation in forensics, and I began to wonder what people who study forensics without the clinical aspect (i.e., someone who obtained a forensic psychology PhD with no clinical aspect) do with their degrees.

“Lack of regulation”. Just wanted to let you know that we determine our scope of practice as we are the experts. In medicine, for example, an MD can do anything an MD can do, each individual doctor determines what is within their scope. Part of becoming a psychologist is that development of a professional identity where we determine what we can and can’t do and where that scope of practice lies. We might get frustrated when we see other psychologists not doing a good job of that and be tempted to have more regulatory control, but that type of fix would likely be worse than the problem. I definitely resent and get frustrated when someone with less experience or training tries to tell me what I should or shouldn’t be doing to treat my patients and it is a big reason why I don’t take insurance as I have had to do just that.

 

[PsyDr]

This idea of regulation is ill informed.

The courts decide who is and who isn't an expert. If a judge tells you to do something, you can either do it or be held in jail until you comply. Your practice has almost nothing to do with licensing boards, your peer appraisal, the APA, the AMA, or even POTUS. Judges can, and have, appointed a worker at a tire factory, and a pothead as experts. How would you "regulate" that? You don't. The judicial does, through case law. Case law is determined by attorneys, not other professions.

Here's how regulation would play out. State board says "only under these conditions". Psychologist gets a court order. Psychologist tells judge they can't offer an opinion because of licensing laws. Judge tells psychologist they can comply with the court order or serve 30 days in jail for contempt of court, after which they can try again. Licensing board, who use court orders to enforce their authority, can either ignore the entire legal system or state that their licensees must comply with court orders.

 

[TA5420]

“Lack of regulation” was poor word choice on my part. It might’ve been more appropriate to say, “This got me thinking that the lines between who is and who isn’t considered a forensic psychologist are somewhat blurred.” In any case, the point of my post wasn’t to ask about regulations.

 

[smalltownpsych]

“Lack of regulation” was poor word choice on my part. It might’ve been more appropriate to say, “This got me thinking that the lines between who is and who isn’t considered a forensic psychologist are somewhat blurred.” In any case, the point of my post wasn’t to ask about regulations.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t posting to be critical, this is about educating and helping yourself and other students who read these posts to understand our not easily understood field. I am always learning things from the others on here even as far into my career as I am, especially when it is from an area that is not my specialty. The point that I made is actually more of something I learned from the MDs both here and in practice. We defer to authority much more than they do and I appreciate the way they staunchly defend their individual determination of scope of practice and so I tend to push for us to do the same.

 

[allantois]

What I've learned from JD trial: there are forensic accountants and experts on google searches

 

[AcronymAllergy]

"Forensic psychologist" can indeed be a broad term, and the definition can depend in part on who you ask. My take (informed by others like Kaufmann who are smarter than me): if you're a psychologist and you're applying psychology to address legal matters, you're functioning as a forensic psychologist. This is, of course, not limited to licensed and/or clinical/counseling/school psychologists; we just happen to be the ones who often have the "specialized knowledge" necessary to assist the trial of fact in answering pertinent legal questions.