Freshman year general chem course...do I need to retake it?

[TapedD]

Hello to all of you:-] I began college in 2001 as premed, but then switched to psychology after two years. I graduated in 2005 with a B.A in psychology. After a lot of soul searching, I've decided that I do in fact wish to go to medical school. After four years of being out of college, I am going back to school to finish a couple of pre-requisites for medical school. The only one thing I have left to take is physics, but I will also be taking some upper division bio courses in order to help enhance my science GPA and to show that I am still capable of the work.

Now, during my freshman year as a pre-med student, I was very distracted and didn't do as good in all of my classes as I could have. In General Chemistry, in the second semester, I got a C- in the lecture and a D in the lab (yes, I am cringing as I write this as well). It's funny, but I actually did pretty good in Organic lecture and excellent in the labs (because by this time I had become more focused), but managed to screw up general chem lab. Will I have to take the whole two semesters of gen Chemistry over because of that D in the second semester lab? I am planning to go into a Special Masters Program afterwards. Most of them want to see a C grade or better in the sciences...but is that only applicable for the lecture courses? do the one credit labs weigh in as well?

Thank you, I appreciate all of your input

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[just one]

If the prereq states General Chem with Lab and the lab is graded independently, then I would take it as meaning you need a C or better, so retake. However, I have no first hand experience with this situation, so what the heck do I know.

 

[physicsguy]

I too would be interested in the answer to this question, because I also took the second semester of general chemistry my freshman year (I took the first semester in high school), and only got a B-. Strangely, I also did better in organic chemistry.

Also I have a quick related question. In regards to the so-called "science GPA," what courses count? Do they only count biology and chemistry courses, or will they count physics courses as well? Forgive me if this sound stupid (I'm new to a lot of the med school terminology), but do courses I've taken in grad school count? I'm asking because I was a physics major and am currently a physics PhD student, and obviously I've got quite a few physics courses. But given that this is irrelevant to the study of medicine, I'm wondering whether anyone's going to care what my grades were in my physics classes.

 

[just one]

I too would be interested in the answer to this question, because I also took the second semester of general chemistry my freshman year (I took the first semester in high school), and only got a B-. Strangely, I also did better in organic chemistry.

Also I have a quick related question. In regards to the so-called "science GPA," what courses count? Do they only count biology and chemistry courses, or will they count physics courses as well? Forgive me if this sound stupid (I'm new to a lot of the med school terminology), but do courses I've taken in grad school count? I'm asking because I was a physics major and am currently a physics PhD student, and obviously I've got quite a few physics courses. But given that this is irrelevant to the study of medicine, I'm wondering whether anyone's going to care what my grades were in my physics classes.

You do not need to retake with a B-. Science GPA is math, physics, biology, chemistry usually. AACOMAS and AMCAS differ slightly on science GPA courses. Check their guidelines for clarification

 

[physicsguy]

You do not need to retake with a B-. Science GPA is math, physics, biology, chemistry usually. AACOMAS and AMCAS differ slightly on science GPA courses. Check their guidelines for clarification

Thanks, I'll do that. Where are their guidelines available? I've looked on the AMCAS website, but it seems a bit sparse.

 

[just one]

Thanks, I'll do that. Where are their guidelines available? I've looked on the AMCAS website, but it seems a bit sparse.

Check this

 

[PunkmedGirl]

For AACOMAS, math isn't included in the science GPA and retakes are not averaged, the most recent grade counts towards GPA.

 

[physicsguy]

Just One, thanks for the PDF, it seems most informative.

Maybe I just haven't read it thoroughly enough yet, but I'm still not sure whether I'm allowed to complete the prereqs by taking classes while in grad school (if I take undergrad classes, they automatically count towards my PhD degree). I'm also not sure if I'm allowed to count upper division physics and math classes, or graduate physics classes, towards my science GPA. Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

Thanks, and again I apologize for not being better informed about the application process. These finer details are a bit confusing.

 

[clausewitz2]

AFAIK, any course that is coded as an undergraduate course counts towards your undergraduate prerequisites, regardless of your own status as a student when you take it (which is how people not enrolled as degree-seeking students can still do informal postbaccs). If it is coded as a graduate course, it is counted towards your graduate GPA, which I get the impression doesn't matter very much, unless it's catastrophic. This is due to a widespread (and not entirely incorrect) assumption that graduate grades are significantly inflated compared to undergrad grades.

If your uni works like most American institutions, that means only 400-level and below courses are going to count towards your uGPA. Also, if a given course gets offered as a graduate level course and is cross-listed as an undergraduate course, it might make sense to sign up for the undergrad version, odd looks you'll get aside.

 

[physicsguy]

AFAIK, any course that is coded as an undergraduate course counts towards your undergraduate prerequisites, regardless of your own status as a student when you take it (which is how people not enrolled as degree-seeking students can still do informal postbaccs). If it is coded as a graduate course, it is counted towards your graduate GPA, which I get the impression doesn't matter very much, unless it's catastrophic. This is due to a widespread (and not entirely incorrect) assumption that graduate grades are significantly inflated compared to undergrad grades.

If your uni works like most American institutions, that means only 400-level and below courses are going to count towards your uGPA. Also, if a given course gets offered as a graduate level course and is cross-listed as an undergraduate course, it might make sense to sign up for the undergrad version, odd looks you'll get aside.

Does this mean I can take 400 (or below) level courses as a graduate student and count them towards my uGPA and premed prerequisites? I'm just asking because someone else here (don't remember whom) said that in order for me to do that, I would need to somehow take the couse and not have it count towards my PhD.

 

[clausewitz2]

That's certainly what I'm doing, as I am a current PhD student taking the undergrad prereqs. The coursework requirements for my PhD are very specific and in an unrelated field to any of the undergrad prereqs, so there's really no question of them "counting" towards my degree. Do you really have any course requirements for your doctorate that can be satisfied by undergraduate courses? I'd be surprised if this was so, but stranger things have happened. Might be worth looking at the regs for your program.

 

[physicsguy]

That's certainly what I'm doing, as I am a current PhD student taking the undergrad prereqs. The coursework requirements for my PhD are very specific and in an unrelated field to any of the undergrad prereqs, so there's really no question of them "counting" towards my degree. Do you really have any course requirements for your doctorate that can be satisfied by undergraduate courses? I'd be surprised if this was so, but stranger things have happened. Might be worth looking at the regs for your program.

My PhD program doesn't have any specific undergraduate course requirements, but we are required to take two non-physics courses in other departments. At my school, most 300 or 400 level courses are labelled "non-major graduate credit," which means that I can use them to satisfy this requirement. Now, this only matters insofar as completing the two-course requirement, and I only have one of those courses left to complete. It still has the course number on the transcript, which I would think is all AMCAS cares about. The other thing is that undergrad courses still affect my graduate GPA (I think this is pretty typical though).

So, based on what I've said, would undergrad level courses count towards my uGPA and satisfy the prereqs? Do you think AMCAS or any med school would care if I use, say, ochem to fulfill my last out-of-department PhD requirement and to satisfy a medical prereq?

 

[clausewitz2]

This may be the kind of issue you should contact AMCAS about; ultimately what matters is how their application classifies the course, and not how your particular institution regards it. I suppose I'd be surprised if they counted 300 and 400 level classes as graduate classes (many institutions, mine included, start graduate level stuff at 500 or above). If AMCAS counts it as an undergrad class, it will count towards your uGPA and not your gGPA.

I suspect they will, but worth e-mailing them.