Future 4th cycle applicant, need job advice

[pedneuro6894]

This next cycle I will be my 4th and final time applying. Many of the experts on here have seen my application info before and the consensus between SDN experts, admissions teams, and other medical students is that my writing sucks and I could use better non-clinical volunteering, both of which I am working on now. However, I need to make more money to support my family's needs, and I have a few options. I was hoping to hear what you all thought would be the best option for my application. Here are my options below and a little background info in case you need it.

Previous experience:
-800 hours research through state school's internships, 1 pub as 2nd author, letter of rec from one of my mentors
-60 hours shadowing neurologists and neurosurgeons
-430 hours as patient care tech at hospital
-105 hours volunteering at hospital
-3000+ hours as a Medical Assistant (CURRENT JOB)

JOB OPTIONS:
1 - Clinical Research Assistant at my state school of medicine. I would earn some pubs/abstracts, some of them could be first author, and it gets me back into research while also being patient facing. I would get a rec letter from director

2 - Lab Assistant also at my state school of medicine. I would definitely earn multiple pubs, but would be middle of the pack for all of them I think. It gets me true benchwork, and the PI I would be working with is a distinguished professor at my state school of medicine, and said she would write me a rec letter

3 - Stay as a medical assistant at my current job. My pay would increase and I would be made the Lead MA, so it looks good to be promoted, but I don't know if med schools actually care about that. In my opinion, this is by far the best job prior to med school in terms of learning purposes. I deal with patients all day and learn about a broad spectrum of diseases, treatments, and preventative care, so my base knowledge entering med school is going to be pretty solid. I would get a letter of rec from head doc.

For my application and previous experience, is it smart to get back into research, and if so, lab work or clinical research? Or is it smart to stay in a true clinical setting like the one I'm in now with a promotion tagged onto my resume? Or am I just overthinking everything and should take the one with the most money because it doesn't really matter?

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[Faha]

Which schools did you apply to this cycle ? Any interviews ? What are your cGPA and sGPA ? What are your MCAT scores ? Where is your state of residence ?

 

[pedneuro6894]

Which schools did you apply to this cycle ? Any interviews ? What are your cGPA and sGPA ? What are your MCAT scores ? Where is your state of residence ?

I applied ED to Maryland, got rejected (I know this maybe wasn't the best idea as a reapplicant). I wasn't gonna apply anywhere else after getting rejected and just wait till the following year to apply all over the place, but decided to throw out an app to Johns Hopkins in the beginning of October for sh*ts and giggles, havent heard back from them. My full info is below.

1. 3.87 cGPA and 3.96 sGPA
2. 520 (130/127/132/131, 05/2022), 508 (130/125/128/125, 06/2021)
3. Maryland resident
4. White male
5. Assumption University
6. Clinical Experience (volunteer and non-volunteer):
   • 3000+ hours as an MA at a Pediatrics and Family Medicine office (current job)
   • 430 hours as a patient care tech at UMass Memorial Medical Center on Neurology/Neurosurgery floor
   • 105 hours volunteering at University of Maryland Medical Center, 81 in Shock Trauma, 24 in Peds ER
7. Research experience and productivity:
   • 800 total hours of research through NSIP program at University of Maryland School of Medicine. 400 hours each summer of 2020 and 2021. First summer was with epidemiologist and I have a publication with her as 2nd author. Second summer was with neuropathologist, publication on the way.
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented:
   • 30 hours with the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgical Oncology at Boston Childrens
   • 28 hours shadowing two docs at Sinai hospital, one a neurologist in the ICU, one a neurosurgeon
9. Non-clinical volunteering:
   • Just started volunteering with Special Olympics basketball, only have a few hours under my belt.
   • 300 hours of running my own non-profit organization that entails a toy drive. I started it when I was 11, but the 300 hours only consists of the hours following college matriculation. The toys have been donated all over the Baltimore area, but now go to Johns Hopkins Childrens.
   • 55 hours coaching girls high school basketball summer leage
   • 50 hours helping run a lemonade stand that donates to families suffering from brain cancer in my area. Raises about 2500 each year
   • 22 hours volunteer tutoring middle and high school aged kids in my area
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc):
    • Collegiate football player at division 2 school. 3 year starter with multiple awards (see below)
    • RA in college
11. Relevant honors or awards:
    • First Team All-Conference for football 2021
    • 2x Academic All-Conference for football 2019, 2021
    • Scholar Athlete of the Year at my college my senior year
    • Emmanuel d’Alzon Crown and Shield Award: “Honors students who have distinguished themselves in the areas of leadership and service, chosen by the faculty and staff. The recipients of these awards have protected (shield) and furthered (crown) the interests of the student body and College.”
    • Departmental Award: “Chosen by the faculty, this award honors the most meritorious student in their primary program of study.” (Neuroscience Program)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Comparing...

WAMC ED Candidate 3.96s 520 MCAT

I applied ED to Maryland, and based off the thread, the first batch of II’s were sent out yesterday. I did not receive one unfortunately. Since I’m not in the first batch, I’m assuming that means I’m done for? Or is it possible I could get one in the next batch in the following week or so?

forums.studentdoctor.net

Do I apply this cycle or wait till next year? 520 MCAT, 3.87 cGPA

I applied ED to Maryland this year, just got the rejection email today. Now that it's official, I am trying to decide whether I should try and hammer out applications this weekend, or simply just wait till next cycle to apply again. Disclaimer: this is my 3rd application cycle. 3.87 cGPA and...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Faha]

When you reapply I suggest these schools:
Maryland
West Virginia
George Washington
Georgetown
U Virginia
Jefferson
Temple
Pittsburgh
Rochester
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
New York Medical College
Boston University
Tufts
UMass
Dartmouth
Brown
Duke
Emory
USF Morsani
Miami
Vanderbilt
Tulane
Creighton
Washington University (in St. Louis-almost a guaranteed interview with your stats)
St. Louis
Northwestern
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Kaiser
An early application is important so apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July. If no interviews by November then apply broadly to DO schools.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Start working on your written materials after the holidays. I think I already read a draft of your PS before, so reach out to me and the others here! We want to get you in with a solid app ready to go by April so you can input everything in May.

Begin secondary pre-writes after the holidays too. You already have your last drafts so we'll see if you can do any wholesale changes. If your writing is "that bad," you need to do some editing. You also need to reach out to the schools high on your list.

Focus on adding hours to your most significant activities rather than presenting a buffet of many different ones of 40 hours or less, especially in your last year. Prepare for SJTs.

You need to add DO schools. Period. None of this ED business. You also need to figure out if any schools will summarily reject you because you will be a 4x applicant. Consider your Plan B.

 

[pedneuro6894]

Start working on your written materials after the holidays. I think I already read a draft of your PS before, so reach out to me and the others here! We want to get you in with a solid app ready to go by April so you can input everything in May.

Begin secondary pre-writes after the holidays too. You already have your last drafts so we'll see if you can do any wholesale changes. If your writing is "that bad," you need to do some editing. You also need to reach out to the schools high on your list.

Focus on adding hours to your most significant activities rather than presenting a buffet of many different ones of 40 hours or less, especially in your last year. Prepare for SJTs.

You need to add DO schools. Period. None of this ED business. You also need to figure out if any schools will summarily reject you because you will be a 4x applicant. Consider your Plan B.

What exactly do you mean when you say “reach out to schools high on my list”?

 

[ron_johnson]

You should hire a professional to edit your writing— someone who does grad/professional school applications.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What exactly do you mean when you say “reach out to schools high on my list”?

As a multiple reapplicant, you should have done some networking with schools you have applied to.

 

[pedneuro6894]

As a multiple reapplicant, you should have done some networking with schools you have applied to.

Do I just email admissions teams and let them know I’m applying again? Or what am I supposed to be saying? I’ve always thought to only email admissions if I had a question, so I’m just not sure what I need to do to “network” with the schools.

I’m sorry if this is a dumb question, I just get no help from my advisor.

 

[Robin-jay]

Those stats are pretty good. Maybe a red flag somewhere? Felony? Cheating IA?

 

[pedneuro6894]

Those stats are pretty good. Maybe a red flag somewhere? Felony? Cheating IA?

Nope no red flags

 

[Test Boy]

If you had applied to the DO school in your 1st cycle and gotten accepted and went, you would be graduating now and starting residency.

 

[Med Ed]

Your non-clinical volunteering is weak, which is essentially a deal-breaker in the current admissions environment. Two of your experiences in this area are fundraising. Tutoring isn't going to cut it, nor is 50 hours of coaching. I'm not sure the Special Olympics will fill this gap, either.

Go find a way to interface directly with the less fortunate. Think homeless shelter or soup kitchen.

I see this pattern of good metrics, good clinical, good research, bad volunteering so often in reapplicants that I have started calling it The Mistake (TM).

 

[Test Boy]

I dunno. The EC’s seem good enough. However, I never heard of his undergrad before. I wonder if that was somehow a negative factor even though we always hear people say undergrad institution don’t matter. I’m willing to bet if his undergrad school was switched to a school like Vanderbilt with the same gpa (or any top 25 school), he would’ve gotten in long ago.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

There is definitely a red flag, you just may not know. I would get new letters and write all new essays

 

[wysdoc]

I dunno. The EC’s seem good enough. However, I never heard of his undergrad before. I wonder if that was somehow a negative factor even though we always hear people say undergrad institution don’t matter. I’m willing to bet if his undergrad school was switched to a school like Vanderbilt with the same gpa (or any top 25 school), he would’ve gotten in long ago.

This is unlikely to be the reason, more likely exactly as @Med Ed says; the charitable volunteering is more important than most applicants think.
Missing that on a quick read of the application may leave you out of the chance to interview.

OP, if you can fill this gap and apply to the schools Faha suggested last time, I think it will go better for you.
With you and your wife both working, try to find one weekend day a week to do this kind of volunteering and you will have enough hours by next May when you should apply early in the cycle.

If your current job pays the best and is fulfilling, keep that one. Adding more research will not round out your application in the way you need.

 

[Med Ed]

I dunno. The EC’s seem good enough. However, I never heard of his undergrad before. I wonder if that was somehow a negative factor even though we always hear people say undergrad institution don’t matter. I’m willing to bet if his undergrad school was switched to a school like Vanderbilt with the same gpa (or any top 25 school), he would’ve gotten in long ago.

A 520 usually mitigates any concerns about undergrad quality. Schools often like to take students from a variety of undergrad institutions in addition to a couple of feeders. The lack of good advising does seem to be a significant issue here.

Cycle one: 508 MCAT and small school list.
Cycle two: better MCAT, better (but not great) school list, received one II.
Cycle three: applied ED, was not successful.

 

[pedneuro6894]

Your non-clinical volunteering is weak, which is essentially a deal-breaker in the current admissions environment. Two of your experiences in this area are fundraising. Tutoring isn't going to cut it, nor is 50 hours of coaching. I'm not sure the Special Olympics will fill this gap, either.

Go find a way to interface directly with the less fortunate. Think homeless shelter or soup kitchen.

I see this pattern of good metrics, good clinical, good research, bad volunteering so often in reapplicants that I have started calling it The Mistake (TM).

@Med Ed @wysdoc Thank you for your insight, I really appreciate it. In addition to the Special Olympics, after the new year I am starting to volunteer as a hospice companion. Essentially, I go sit with hospice patients close to death and act as a buddy for them, talking to them, providing entertainment, etc. Do you think this is a good option to fill the gap?

I would imagine it’s a good way to get that face to face contact and also gain something to write/talk about cause I’m sure I’m going to have some interesting experiences. But at this point I have no idea what’s considered good or not.

 

[LocutusofBorg]

This next cycle I will be my 4th and final time applying. Many of the experts on here have seen my application info before and the consensus between SDN experts, admissions teams, and other medical students is that my writing sucks and I could use better non-clinical volunteering, both of which I am working on now. However, I need to make more money to support my family's needs, and I have a few options. I was hoping to hear what you all thought would be the best option for my application. Here are my options below and a little background info in case you need it.

Previous experience:
-800 hours research through state school's internships, 1 pub as 2nd author, letter of rec from one of my mentors
-60 hours shadowing neurologists and neurosurgeons
-430 hours as patient care tech at hospital
-105 hours volunteering at hospital
-3000+ hours as a Medical Assistant (CURRENT JOB)

JOB OPTIONS:
1 - Clinical Research Assistant at my state school of medicine. I would earn some pubs/abstracts, some of them could be first author, and it gets me back into research while also being patient facing. I would get a rec letter from director

2 - Lab Assistant also at my state school of medicine. I would definitely earn multiple pubs, but would be middle of the pack for all of them I think. It gets me true benchwork, and the PI I would be working with is a distinguished professor at my state school of medicine, and said she would write me a rec letter

3 - Stay as a medical assistant at my current job. My pay would increase and I would be made the Lead MA, so it looks good to be promoted, but I don't know if med schools actually care about that. In my opinion, this is by far the best job prior to med school in terms of learning purposes. I deal with patients all day and learn about a broad spectrum of diseases, treatments, and preventative care, so my base knowledge entering med school is going to be pretty solid. I would get a letter of rec from head doc.

For my application and previous experience, is it smart to get back into research, and if so, lab work or clinical research? Or is it smart to stay in a true clinical setting like the one I'm in now with a promotion tagged onto my resume? Or am I just overthinking everything and should take the one with the most money because it doesn't really matter?

I'm honestly at a loss why with your credentials you aren't already in med school. My only thought is that the US medical setting (for both education and practice) is less objective academically and more judgy with regard to personal traits. Besides a writing coach I strongly suggest a competent interview coach who can pick out unusual mannerisms, behaviors, word choices, etc. Even slight neurodivergence while clinically irrelevant might be a red flag to the US medical establishment. I would suggest the highest paying job at this point because you aren't lacking in credentials and more of the same might not make a big difference.

A final thought, if your LORs are blind consider providing different combinations of them to different schools. Some persons are evil enough to sabotage you. This happened to me once during a residency interview. The PD told me I was her favorite candidate but she couldn't accept me with one of my letters and was kind enough to read the absolutely false smear that a physician wrote about me in the blind recommendation which he gave me enthusiastically while wishing me luck.

 

[gyngyn]

Have you applied to all the Jesuit schools in your last three applications?

 

[Sky138]

Maybe it’s just me but if I had to guess it’s a combination of his lack of proven altruism and perceived lack of introspection/ability to change which to me is a major red flag. I mean, if after 3 tries all the OP has in terms of shadowing is essentially neuro/neurosurg and basically no meaningful volunteering. Not taking him might be the most merciful thing the schools could do if he is set on neurosurg as somehow he’s worked in family med/peds/trauma and managed to get zero shadowing hours from them? If he gets an interview, big if in my opinion, when he brings up something like volunteering at soup kitchen. How will that look? No offense but to me, the OP looks like a box checker that quite frankly didn’t even do a good job box checking. Is he damned? Still don’t like his chances but no. I think he needs to spend a lot more time reflecting why he wants this rather than simply go through the motion.

 

[pedneuro6894]

Have you applied to all the Jesuit schools in your last three applications?

First two cycles yes, this past cycle no because I applied ED

 

[gyngyn]

First two cycles yes, this past cycle no because I applied ED

Did you get interviews from them?

 

[pedneuro6894]

Did you get interviews from them?

Nope, but I misread your first question. I only applied to Georgetown, not all of them.

 

[gyngyn]

Nope, but I misread your first question. I only applied to Georgetown, not all of them.

Given your undergrad, you would be well advised to apply to all of them!

 

[ron_johnson]

Maybe it’s just me but if I had to guess it’s a combination of his lack of proven altruism and perceived lack of introspection/ability to change which to me is a major red flag. I mean, if after 3 tries all the OP has in terms of shadowing is essentially neuro/neurosurg and basically no meaningful volunteering. Not taking him might be the most merciful thing the schools could do if he is set on neurosurg as somehow he’s worked in family med/peds/trauma and managed to get zero shadowing hours from them? If he gets an interview, big if in my opinion, when he brings up something like volunteering at soup kitchen. How will that look? No offense but to me, the OP looks like a box checker that quite frankly didn’t even do a good job box checking. Is he damned? Still don’t like his chances but no. I think he needs to spend a lot more time reflecting why he wants this rather than simply go through the motion.

If he has 3000 hours as an MA at the FM clinic he really shouldn't need to shadow, that would be absurd

 

[cabinbuilder]

When you reapply I suggest these schools:
Maryland
West Virginia
George Washington
Georgetown
U Virginia
Jefferson
Temple
Pittsburgh
Rochester
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
New York Medical College
Boston University
Tufts
UMass
Dartmouth
Brown
Duke
Emory
USF Morsani
Miami
Vanderbilt
Tulane
Creighton
Washington University (in St. Louis-almost a guaranteed interview with your stats)
St. Louis
Northwestern
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Kaiser
An early application is important so apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July. If no interviews by November then apply broadly to DO schools.

This list is way too IVY league. If you really want to be a doctor you need to apply to DO schools and be a doctor. With your numbers and CV there is no reason that you should not have already been accepted IMO. So what is it that is wrong with your APP?

 

[Test Boy]

This list is way too IVY league. If you really want to be a doctor you need to apply to DO schools and be a doctor. With your numbers and CV there is no reason that you should not have already been accepted IMO. So what is it that is wrong with your APP?

There’s something in his application that is questionable, maybe the lack of meaningful EC’s, lukewarm recs, no name undergrad, as some have suggested but who really knows. I don’t think he’s interested in DO schools. Several people already suggested that to him.