Giving birth before postdoc

[Psychtherapist]

Hello! I am currently in the APPIC postdoc process and received an offer from my top choice (and am holding this offer). I am currently pregnant and have a due date for middle of July. Most of the sites I applied for start late July/early August. This obviously is not ideal as I will have two or less weeks to recover. I will most likely need another two to three more weeks to recover. I disclosed my pregnancy to my top choice once they offered me a position and briefly talked with the TD about possible accommodations. The TD was not so helpful and shot down any accommodations I threw out and didn’t offer any suggestions. I have since reached out to the site’s HR-still waiting on an answer and the APPIC website contain guidelines, not exact policies. I understand that sites have constraints due to funding and some things are out of their control, but from what I’ve read online (pregnant workers fairness act, APPIC guidelines, etc.), sites should be accommodating in some way. Most threads on here cover maternity leave/accommodations after starting a postdoc, but I haven’t read anything before starting postdoc. Does anyone know about postdoc rights/accommodations for childbirth/being on medical disability in CA? Or any other suggestions on what to do?

Also, I’m not willing to take a whole year off, I like the momentum I have going (and also need to start paying back my loans) and the informal postdocs seem slim in my area.

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[summerbabe]

First, congrats!

I think you’re doing the right thing by being open with the TD and reaching out to HR.

Outside of specific HR policy for that organization, unfortunately there is indeed a lot of guidance, rather than standardized rules. Especially since trainees may not be classified as ‘full’ employees depending on site. Not sure if CA has anything specific that postdocs would fall under.

However, it makes logical sense for postdocs with earlier start dates to be more accommodating in general since there are internships that run into August and beyond. Plus, others may have to wait for their degree to conferred.

Does the brochure for this site speak to start dates and flexibility?

The VA where I did postdoc and has a late July start date has language stating that start dates are flexible based on internship/degree conferral timelines and that individuals with “extraordinary circumstances” can be granted up to two 30 day extensions (with time added on to the end of postdoc).

My current VA which has a late August start date has generic language of “in unique circumstances, extensions may be granted by the training committee”.

I disclosed my pregnancy to my top choice once they offered me a position and briefly talked with the TD about possible accommodations. The TD was not so helpful and shot down any accommodations I threw out and didn’t offer any suggestions.

What was the context to this conversation? Like they called you to make the offer and you told them on the spot or was it a scheduled phone call to discuss this? Did you propose a specific start date or were you asking more generally?

Some TDs might not be great fielding impromptu things on the fly. Or maybe they were trying to squeeze in the phone call in between meetings/apts and were rushed? And it’s quite possible that this site is genuinely rigid.

Overall, even if there are some relevant policies/rules/guidelines, communication is super important. If you feel like the communication was happening under good circumstances, having to fight tooth and nail isn’t an ideal start since I imagine you’d find a lot of other sites who are much more open to discuss this.

If you feel like some other factors may have gotten in the way of that initial conversation, maybe you can regroup and try again (e.g, email detailing situation if you felt like phone wasn’t effective).

Not sure if any of this is helpful but hopefully others can chime in with other thoughts and best of luck!

 

[borne_before]

Congrats!

 

[Sanman]

Congratulations! I don't have a lot of advice if your TD/site is not being accommodating. At the end of the day, you usually need grace or leverage in a negotiation and trainees rarely have any leverage (unless another offer is willing to accommodate you and you are willing to walk). This may be something you want to consider if you have not accepted/finalized and get other post-doc offers. This is one of the cases where a job might not be a bad idea if you do not need post0doc hours for a license.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Congratulations! I am not sure how the match works with postdocs but with that site not being helpful, definitely think about your options. If I had a postdoc that was in a similar situation, I would do everything to support her as she navigated this. I am actually interviewing a potential postdoc today. My attitude is that employees are my most valuable resource and I want to work with them and invest in them. I don’t understand the adversarial approach, but maybe that’s why I’m not rich.

 

[eeor1006]

Congrats!
I got pregnant with our oldest right after I accepted my fellowship position. The organization was not as accommodating as I thought it would be and it was a long and arduous negotiation for me to receive what I needed. Then they wanted me to stay another 2 months for make up for the time I took off, which led to another round of negotiation. My rotation supervisors were instrumental as they went out of their way to advocate for me. Knowing what I knew now, I wish I went somewhere else for fellowship. Pregnancy and dealing with a newborn is hard enough, you don't need the extra stress.

 

[singasongofjoy]

It's not uncommon for places to have postdoc positions that don't get filled once in a while. At my location soe years there are lots of applicants for the 3 positions and other years it's slim. If the site happens to have an unfilled position when all is said and done perhaps you could propose to do a 1.5 year postdoc, starting halfway through with the agreement you'd continue on for the next cycle... but for now I would def wait to hear from HR and perhaps reach back out in a different way if you feel like the TD conversation might go better as @summerbabe pondered in previous comment. Some people really don't think well on their feet when responding to something unexpected.

 

[surviving2021]

I am wondering if it’s a formal post doc site with a lengthly on-boarding system? I don’t agree but I see why they are probably being difficult. My site took a month to onboard us, which I think could have been done in a week or two lol

 

[Psychtherapist]

What was the context to this conversation? Like they called you to make the offer and you told them on the spot or was it a scheduled phone call to discuss this? Did you propose a specific start date or were you asking more generally?

I called the TD a day or so after they offered me a spot and I think she was just about to leave the office, so it's possible I caught her at a bad time. I still expected a different answer or a "let me get back to you" sort of thing. I was asking the TD about pushing back the start date in general and she said it was a hard start date. As @surviving2021 mentioned, the site has around a month of on-boarding, and I had asked if I could have accommodations with onboarding (work from home). Although going back to work so soon after childbirth/c-section is not ideal, I'm willing to start on time, with accommodations. I feel like there has to be some sort of protections. I'm still waiting on HR, but once I hear back, I feel like I'll have more leverage to negotiate my accommodations via email with the TD.

 

[PsyDuck90]

Congratulations!!!

What kind of site is this? That may play a role in their flexibility, although I know someone who started a VA postdoc about 1.5 months later than the rest of the cohort because of a clerical snag at their grad program holding up degree conferral.

Outside of specializations like neuro, forensics, and rehab, formal postdocs are becoming less common (with even rehab postdocs becoming harder to fill), so postdoc programs are becoming far more willing to be flexible because there is not as strong a demand as there is a supply in this current market. So I’m curious what constrictions this site is operating under where a July start date is so firm (especially as other posters have pointed out, some internships don’t even end until August/September, and many degree conferrals are held up until September or so).

I would wait until hearing back from HR, but I would also strongly weigh any other options you have. If this site is being this stringent with start date due to childbirth, how accommodating are they going to be if you need to take some sick time to take the baby to the doctor, etc.? Work/life balance is important, and sites that are that rigid may not be the best fit for this next chapter of your life, both professionally and with family.

 

[surviving2021]

I called the TD a day or so after they offered me a spot and I think she was just about to leave the office, so it's possible I caught her at a bad time. I still expected a different answer or a "let me get back to you" sort of thing. I was asking the TD about pushing back the start date in general and she said it was a hard start date. As @surviving2021 mentioned, the site has around a month of on-boarding, and I had asked if I could have accommodations with onboarding (work from home). Although going back to work so soon after childbirth/c-section is not ideal, I'm willing to start on time, with accommodations. I feel like there has to be some sort of protections. I'm still waiting on HR, but once I hear back, I feel like I'll have more leverage to negotiate my accommodations via email with the TD.

I am at a very formal huge hospital and most of the training was half day and online. Wonder if this is a sign of bigger problems to come. You have plenty of time to find another post doc, which I know is not ideal but maybe just see what your options are?

 

[summerbabe]

I called the TD a day or so after they offered me a spot and I think she was just about to leave the office, so it's possible I caught her at a bad time. I still expected a different answer or a "let me get back to you" sort of thing. I was asking the TD about pushing back the start date in general and she said it was a hard start date. As @surviving2021 mentioned, the site has around a month of on-boarding, and I had asked if I could have accommodations with onboarding (work from home). Although going back to work so soon after childbirth/c-section is not ideal, I'm willing to start on time, with accommodations. I feel like there has to be some sort of protections. I'm still waiting on HR, but once I hear back, I feel like I'll have more leverage to negotiate my accommodations via email with the TD.

I can see factors outside of the TD's control where a start date has to be firm and they genuinely can't change it (But why start in July? I digress).

However accomodations are likely a different story and that's something that a program would have a lot more control over (within reason).

There would be some institutional guidelines/rules but usually there's a range of possible accomodations and a program can choose to be super accommodating and even stretch that range or be rather rigid and difficult, which doesn't bode well for the future (like unexpected, last minute leave for medical apts or caretaking).

Hopefully you can get some info from HR before revisiting with the TD and making some specific requests but I'd also recommend really weighing the pros and cons of your top offer compared to other sites you've applied to and your career trajectory (getting more experience and licensed versus needing a very specific type of training).

 

[singasongofjoy]

If it is a big site with a bunch of trainees starting at the same time, they may be set up to do onboarding as a group within the hospital system, like going to get access badges made, filling out tax forms, TB test, putting you through hands-on training like CPR or getting fitted for a respirator (I had to do this at my internship site because it was just a requirement for anyone working in the hospital at times, and the psych clinic was technically attached to the hospital, so... maybe hard for the TD to think flexibly in the moment about how to make that work with a later start date but maybe after the onboarding week things could be more flexible? That's an optimistic take I suppose. I think I might still put out feelers for other postdoc options. Good luck with whichever path you take