Harvard Medical School Withdraws From U.S. News Ranking

[senecca]

Nope. If we could use quotas there would be a lot more Black doctors right now.


Pics or she didn't happen.

Every word as told by that girl on Reddit . I don’t have to make things up because every step of this process is stupid by itself. I don’t have to invent something.

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[senecca]

I don’t tell the failed partner applicants why I reject them either. The answer is obvious. There were better applicants. That’s it.
It doesn’t matter why they were better. Good luck.
You definitely won’t like it as you progress because stats go out the window when everyone is essentially the same. Do I want to train this person? Is this someone I can see being here for years? Why/why not? Do I think they would make a good long term fit as a partner? What are their goals and how will they achieve them here? What are they bringing to the group? Not to mention what is the current make up of the group and what can we do to make sure we reflect society and our patients? Nothing transparent there.

“You definitely won’t like it as you progress because stats go out the window when everyone is essentially the same”. I beg to differ. This is where the Government has to step in and work with aamc. AAMC should define the guidelines and criteria for all school. Everyone should be forced to post all the applications, scores, decisions and justifications for the decisions. Then your attitude and tone will be different , similar to what you expect from the applicants. “When everyone is essentially same” is basically code word for ignoring the stats completely.

 

[LizzyM]

Regarding recruiting physicians to serve in the underserved area, just make it a legal contract with interested applicants. Guessing by looking at their essays, extracurriculars and interviews is not a dependable method. People can play you or just change their mind.

We have evidence that people who come from areas that are underserved are more likely than those from other areas to go back to those areas. We also have evidence that patients are better cared for by persons of similar background than by people with whom they can't relate.

Short term contracts don't serve the long term needs of people in underserved areas but only perpetuate a cycle of short-term care for people who greatly need to develop long-term, trusting relationships with primary care providers.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Let me ask you one thing. Can’t these medical schools and aamc and get together and come up with a uniform selection process? Can’t they come to an agreement to have only 4 or 5 essays FOR ALL SCHOOLS AND EVALUATE THEM HOWEVER THEY WANT? Do we really need to FORCE the applicants to apply for 30-40 schools, each requiring their own 5-6 essays? Don’t you think it is so stupid and childish? Can’t everyone get together and AGREE ON SOMETHING? That’s what we are looking for in our applicants, right? Collaboration, teamwork and problem solving? Isn’t it?

😐

 

[USN2MD]

I can recall multiple schools where I was interviewed by M1/M2's. Granted this was about a decade ago, but it did happen at least until very recently (or is still their practice).

At my school, I have not personally seen an applicant get accepted without positive reviews from all of their interviewers. An 'okay'/'not great' interview does not cut it when we have so many excellent candidates to choose from. So in this respect, the student interviewers are functionally given similar weights when they are utilized. Just my thoughts.

I can see schools using it as a vibe check. I’m sure applicants let their guard down when they think they’re among their peers. I’m sure every adcom here has a story of a qualified applicant who was rejected because they were extremely rude to the admissions staff, janitor, security guard or other school employee not interviewing them.

 

[deleted1139416]

We have evidence that people who come from areas that are underserved are more likely than those from other areas to go back to those areas. We also have evidence that patients are better cared for by persons of similar background than by people with whom they can't relate.

Short term contracts don't serve the long term needs of people in underserved areas but only perpetuate a cycle of short-term care for people who greatly need to develop long-term, trusting relationships with primary care providers.

I want to see a study that shows whether this statistic changes with the rank of the med school. I find it hard to believe that someone from Hopkins will willingly practice primary care (or even a specialty) in a rural town when they have such an easy path to a cush lifestyle specialty in an urban city.

Same thing about NYU going tuition free. The intention was to make it so that their students will go into primary care. And then the average incoming class had an MCAT of 523 and the school became a Top 5. So they really think that superstars with a 523 coming out of a Top 5 school are going to go into primary care?

There’s a reason why DOs are much more likely to practice primary care, and that’s because they often don’t have any other choice.

It comes down to human nature.

 

[LizzyM]

Read Brave New World. Think about how we might recruit students to Alpha, Beta, Delta and the other levels of medical schools based on roles that need to be filled. As I mentioned above, different schools have different missions and schools are looking for students who are going to fit the mission.

We could choose solely the top 40% of performers on the MCAT regardless of clinical experience, life experience, or research experience. Go to college, major in anything and prep the hell out of the MCAT because that one day is all that will matter. We could assign test takers, in order of MCAT score, to the school closest to the zip code of their permanent residence that is not already full so that geographically people are able to train relatively close to where they grew up. Schools would not need to offer any financial aid as you would have a choice to attend or not attend where you are assigned. Full stop.

Would this really get any of us what we want with regard to meeting future needs of our society for physicians in all the roles they assume in our society (clinical care, teaching/training, research)?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I want to see a study that shows whether this statistic changes with the rank of the med school. I find it hard to believe that someone from Hopkins will willingly practice primary care (or even a specialty) in a rural town when they have such an easy path to a cush lifestyle specialty in an urban city.

Same thing about NYU going tuition free. The intention was to make it so that their students will go into primary care. And then the average incoming class had an MCAT of 523 and the school became a Top 5. So they really think that superstars with a 523 coming out of a Top 5 school are going to go into primary care?

There’s a reason why DOs are much more likely to practice primary care, and that’s because they often don’t have any other choice.

It comes down to human nature.

I never believed the reason for tuition free at NYU is to put more people out into primary care. It’s just a pretense. But again, the way primary care is run is such a turn off for a lot of people. I personally just can’t deal with HTN, T2D, and the like day in and day out.. it’s not much medicine but mostly management…

 

[Mr.Smile12]

“Can we have their applications?” Yes, absolutely !!! That’s what i exactly want. Every school should spell out their criteria, how they evaluated every applicant and post the entire applications along with their scores, decision and justification. Holistic or not, this move will straighten out every one.

As per my understanding, holistic review means, if two candidates have similar stats but one has better essays or extracurriculars but a little lower stats, you can go with him. But 3.3 , 500 getting in but 3.95 524, 526 return empty handed means it is atrocious.

One adcom member from one medical school posted anonymously about how they evaluate the applications to select applicants for an interview. Only 15% weight given for mcat, 15% weight for gpa but 20% for drawing blood, taking vitals and transporting patients and 30% for something the applicants HAVE NO CONTROL OVER. This is what happening under the hood in the name of holistic admissions. But, NO ONE CARES.

So I can just ignore your hypothetical, then? Because then we can ignore your comparison of 3.3/500 vs. 3.95/524 or 3.95/526 as meaningless. (My thought is if they all applied to just DO schools, I can see how the 3.3/500 gets an offer over the other two, but that presumes things that there is no evidence here.)

Do I think the admissions community does a great job communicating what holistic admissions is? Well, I think everyone can do better explaining and putting out proof. I point out the AAMC "contact lens (EAM) model" as what holistic review means conceptually. I agree that metrics are at the center and remain part of the picture that one must focus on. However, a school's mission is just as important in these decisions, so the context that surrounds the scores is valued by schools at their own discretion. So if a school considers the candidate of 3.3/500 valuable to fulfill its educational mission and societal needs, then it's their decision to place value on the student in those non-cognitive aspects; in return, they should expect and/or provide the resources to ensure that the student they admitted succeed and graduate.

A big problem with education is that humans are not widgets (or the classes in Brave New World). High metrics are not a certification of educational "quality control" by the university conferring the degree. However, we can't underestimate how really hard medical education is, and we do everyone a disservice accepting individuals who either cannot pass the curriculum or do not have the professional qualities that we expect from our practitioners.

Many MCAT 500's do just as well passing USMLE Step 1 as those who scored 520+. Undergrad GPA correlates to passing first-year depending on the curriculum, Yet anecdotally, some 3.95/52X students struggle in medical school and drop out (because they failed to change study habits in time). We know the memorable students who graduated in spite of their entry metrics.

 

[LizzyM]

I never believed the reason for tuition free at NYU is to put more people out into primary care. It’s just a pretense. But again, the way primary care is run is such a turn off for a lot of people. I personally just can’t deal with HTN, T2D, and the like day in and day out.. it’s not much medicine but mostly management…

Well, people claim that they avoid primary care because their debt is so high and salaries are relatively low. But choose as students the academic superstars who aren’t interested in the decades long slog of caring for poor and working class patients with very common chronic conditions such as hypertension and type 2 diabetes and they are going to be looking for sub specialty fellowships that they will find fulfilling because that’s why they are headed to medicine. What if NYU made a point of choosing applicants with 3.75/512 who already had experience (employment, long term volunteerism) in fields related to primary care? They might do it but with USNews enticing them with a higher rank, they go for the superstars.

 

[IlDestriero]

“You definitely won’t like it as you progress because stats go out the window when everyone is essentially the same”. I beg to differ. This is where the Government has to step in and work with aamc. AAMC should define the guidelines and criteria for all school. Everyone should be forced to post all the applications, scores, decisions and justifications for the decisions. Then your attitude and tone will be different , similar to what you expect from the applicants. “When everyone is essentially same” is basically code word for ignoring the stats completely.

I’m referring to if you progress beyond medical school. Your stats don’t matter as much as you think when you’re dealing with people that have all graduated from accredited medical schools and passed the USMLE and you’re trying to match into a residency. Then they matter even less when you’re looking for a fellowship somewhere. And then when it’s time to get a job, especially a good job, they don’t really matter at all. Nobody cares if you got a 29th percentile or a 99rh percentile on your inservice exams as long as you’re on a trajectory to pass your boards and your LORs say that you have what it takes to be a star. People hire who they want, who they like, people whose short and long term goals align with their practice. “When everyone is essentially the same” isn’t code for ignoring the stats completely. That’s exactly what happens. The farther you progress, the less any of that nonsense that people obsess about matters at all. When I’m interviewing people for fellowship or faculty positions I don’t have any idea what they scored on any test they’ve ever taken, other than they must have passed, or they wouldn’t be here in my office.
Why then do you need a 3.6 and 515 to get in? Because medical school is hard, you need to learn a lot of things and retain them for a long time, you need good judgement that has a solid foundation, and good grades on hard science prerequisites and a high test score are evidence that you’re smart enough to pass and get board certified. Does it matter if you’re a 3.62 or a 3.89, or maybe a 3.3 mechanical engineer from an engineering powerhouse school? No. The 3.2 engineer from Superschool U can probably outperform the 3.98 OkStateU grad. The proof of that is typing this reply. All these decisions are nuanced. The 3.2 MIT guy can still get a spot in the class and the 3.9 DownState U dude doesn’t get a vote when he’s passed over.
The last question on the fellow candidate evaluation is “If there was only one fellowship position remaining would you offer it to this candidate?” It’s a Y/N circle. It’s the only answer on the form that really matters. If you get a “N” your 99th percentile inservice exam and MCAT scores won’t save you.
The faculty eval is essentially the same. If people are concerned you’d be a bad fit, you’re not getting an offer.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

American model of who to admit for top education: we want lucky people only. Lol

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Well, people claim that they avoid primary care because their debt is so high and salaries are relatively low. But choose as students the academic superstars who aren’t interested in the decades long slog of caring for poor and working class patients with very common chronic conditions such as hypertension and type 2 diabetes and they are going to be looking for sub specialty fellowships that they will find fulfilling because that’s why they are headed to medicine. What if NYU made a point of choosing applicants with 3.75/512 who already had experience (employment, long term volunteerism) in fields related to primary care? They might do it but with USNews enticing them with a higher rank, they go for the superstars.

Primary care is not the same as caring for the poor. You can do primary care for rich people too. But it’s equally tedious and boring to a lot of people who want to practice real medicine.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Every word as told by that girl on Reddit . I don’t have to make things up because every step of this process is stupid by itself. I don’t have to invent something.

With due respect, we're all on the internet, and it would be appropriate for the candidate to post her situation for herself. She may have, or she may be reading this thread. It is best if this poster spoke on her own behalf. (Similarly the outrage from the two high-stat applicants.)

As everyone has noted for as long as the Internet has been going, don't believe everything you read on the internet. This could be George Santos for all we know.

 

[IlDestriero]

Primary care is not the same as caring for the poor. You can do primary care for rich people too. But it’s equally tedious and boring to a lot of people who want to practice real medicine.

Primary care is real medicine.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

“You definitely won’t like it as you progress because stats go out the window when everyone is essentially the same”. I beg to differ. This is where the Government has to step in and work with aamc. AAMC should define the guidelines and criteria for all school. Everyone should be forced to post all the applications, scores, decisions and justifications for the decisions. Then your attitude and tone will be different , similar to what you expect from the applicants. “When everyone is essentially same” is basically code word for ignoring the stats completely.

I suppose you can ask the Republicans in the House to put your suggestion for an investigation in their queue. I don't really see how you can "force" anyone to do what you're asking, starting with UNDERGRAD admissions where there is really a need for transparency for admissions decisions.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You don’t have to take over the university, just the admission. As I always say, let’s learn from other countries rather than burying our heads in the sand.

Which other countries do what you are suggesting?

By the way, what is med school tuition in those countries? How much do docs make there?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

... One adcom member from one medical school posted anonymously about how they evaluate the applications to select applicants for an interview. Only 15% weight given for mcat, 15% weight for gpa but 20% for drawing blood, taking vitals and transporting patients and 30% for something the applicants HAVE NO CONTROL OVER. This is what happening under the hood in the name of holistic admissions. But, NO ONE CARES.

Is this another r/premed post? Again, this is also the internet where we can talk about the danger of Jewish space lasers.

One adcom faculty member is just one adcom faculty member. Decision are not made by one faculty member; it comes from a consensus vote of the admissions committee which can comprise of 20-50 people! Your example is not representative of all of the allo and osteo med schools, or any of the other professions' adcoms.

Those of us who run and document the admissions process/decisions do care that decisions are made based on appropriate precedent, standards, and logic.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Dang, we really are off-course... no love for Columbia dropping out of the USN survey? Did I miss it?

 

[Med Ed]

Every word as told by that girl on Reddit .

Sorry, I don't hang out on Reddit. You'll have to explain further. Maybe even post a link?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

“You definitely won’t like it as you progress because stats go out the window when everyone is essentially the same”. I beg to differ. This is where the Government has to step in and work with aamc. AAMC should define the guidelines and criteria for all school. Everyone should be forced to post all the applications, scores, decisions and justifications for the decisions. Then your attitude and tone will be different , similar to what you expect from the applicants. “When everyone is essentially same” is basically code word for ignoring the stats completely.

Holistic Review in Medical School Admissions

Holistic review is an admissions process that considers each applicant individually by balancing their academic metrics with experiences and attributes.

students-residents.aamc.org

Admissions offices and their universities (and legal counsel) have no interest in posting decisions and justifications for all applicants to their programs because FERPA is still the law.

 

[Moko]

Primary care is not the same as caring for the poor. You can do primary care for rich people too. But it’s equally tedious and boring to a lot of people who want to practice real medicine.

This is offensive on so many different levels. As @IlDestriero said, primary care *is* real medicine. It may not be as glamorous, but the impact that a PCP can have on their patients and community will often exceed what can be accomplished by a subspecialist. They are doing the hard job that many of us will not. Hopefully for your sake your attitude will improve and you will develop some respect for your future colleagues. Just my thoughts.

 

[LizzyM]

Primary care is not the same as caring for the poor. You can do primary care for rich people too. But it’s equally tedious and boring to a lot of people who want to practice real medicine.

Primary care is real medicine and half of the people in need of primary care are of below average income.

 

[deleted1139416]

Well, people claim that they avoid primary care because their debt is so high and salaries are relatively low. But choose as students the academic superstars who aren’t interested in the decades long slog of caring for poor and working class patients with very common chronic conditions such as hypertension and type 2 diabetes and they are going to be looking for sub specialty fellowships that they will find fulfilling because that’s why they are headed to medicine. What if NYU made a point of choosing applicants with 3.75/512 who already had experience (employment, long term volunteerism) in fields related to primary care? They might do it but with USNews enticing them with a higher rank, they go for the superstars.

Isn’t that what I said earlier? Lol.

 

[amateurbater]

When we privilege specialities that make institutions like hospitals a LOT of money as “real medicine” and disparage the specialties that don’t—like primary care in underserved communities and pediatricians—we’re feeding into the very thing that makes healthcare such a miserable place for many. Profit over patients. Schools like NYU and Columbia and Yale and WashU select for superstars that come from wealthy families. Stellar ECs? They had time to volunteer instead of roll up their sleeves and wash dishes for rent and tuition money. Stellar MCAT? They could afford to take months off to study. Stellar GPA from a name brand institution like Rice or Vandy? Gee, wonder what the median income of those places are. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule of privilege (and no, I am not one of them), but it irks me when Columbia pretends to care about the morals behind ranking institutions. They care about not having to relinquish power to an outside source. USNews rankings affect their bottom line and ability to coast on their Ivy name. The entire process is suited to the privileged because money flows through medicine, through admin pockets, auxiliary dialysis or imagine centers, medical device manufacturers like Stryker, and whatever ungodly behemoth of a hospital managed to scythe a monopoly in a given area. Certainly, it flows through medical schools.

But, I digress.

Primary care is the backbone of the healthcare system. I respect those docs. I think USNews should have power, and they should use it to advantage the schools that better healthcare where it’s most needed. I like their “graduates that serve medically underserved areas rankings”. Why isn’t that a part of the primary care rankings?

 

[senecca]

American model of who to admit for top education: we want lucky people only. Lol

Exactly. Every applicant is shooting in the dark. Lucky ones hit the target by chance. That’s exactly why even applicants with 3.9+ and 524+ are forced to apply 35-45 schools and still return empty handed. You need loads of luck especially if you are an Asian American citizen. It’s all pure madness. If an institution with 22000 seats receives only 55000 applications, they will look into the applications for reasons to admit. But if the same institution has only 150 seats but receives 15000 applications, then they are forced to look for the reasons to reject. It gets worse for Asian American citizens. It is not a rocket science, but we americans are accustomed to make every simple thing into the most complex thing,

 

[bossssss]

Exactly. Every applicant is shooting in the dark. Lucky ones hit the target by chance. That’s exactly why even applicants with 3.9+ and 524+ are forced to apply 35-45 schools and still return empty handed. You need loads of luck especially if you are an Asian American citizen. It’s all pure madness. If an institution with 22000 seats receives only 55000 applications, they will look into the applications for reasons to admit. But if the same institution has only 150 seats but receives 15000 applications, then they are forced to look for the reasons to reject. It gets worse for Asian American citizens. It is not a rocket science, but we americans are accustomed to make every simple thing into the most complex thing,

83.2% of 3.8+/517+ applicants gain admission (source). That's over twice the national average, and I'm sure the remaining 16.8% probably have a compelling reason to be overlooked by others with lower stats who may be stronger in other components.

High stat applicants are still favored in the process all other things being equal, and higher stats still positively correlate with higher chance of admissions.

"We have 22,000 seats and that he couldn’t get one BECAUSE WE HATE HIGH ACHIEVERS. I don’t know him but my heart bleeds for him." ?? My heart "bleeds" more for the applicants who have had to overcome significant life adversity, overcome poverty, or didn't have access to high quality education simply due to their parent's income level if we were to switch to a purely meritocratic system instead of one that justly takes into account the distance traveled by each applicant with the resources they were given and that addresses the healthcare gaps we are lacking in America.

 

[senecca]

83.2% of 3.8+/517+ applicants gain admission (source). That's over twice the national average, and I'm sure the remaining 16.8% probably have a compelling reason to be overlooked by others with lower stats who may be stronger in other components.

High stat applicants are still favored in the process all other things being equal, and higher stats still positively correlate with higher chance of admissions.

"We have 22,000 seats and that he couldn’t get one BECAUSE WE HATE HIGH ACHIEVERS. I don’t know him but my heart bleeds for him." ?? My heart "bleeds" more for the applicants to have had to overcome significant life adversity, overcome poverty, or didn't have access to high quality education simply due to their parent's income level if we were to switch to a purely meritocratic system at the time of admissions instead of one that justly takes into account the distance traveled by each applicant with the resources they were given and that address the healthcare gaps we are lacking in America.

Unless you belong to top 2% income bracket , life is not easy for anyone. Actually you are better off if you are from a poor family background, you get a lot of support and benefits including full ride. I am not vilifying anyone, I am from a poor background too, we have to be practical and balanced. If you completed college, took mcat and applied to medical schools , you are as privileged as anyone else.

Let me repeat again, if the admission process is open and transparent, the frustration will be minimal. If all of us get to see everyone’s application, credentials, scores , decisions with justification, we can have a meaningful conversation.

The admission process is not only arbitrary and secretive, but there is zero oversight or accountability which causes more heartburn. IMHO, 83% admissions rate for the highest achievers is not a high number. It has to be at least 98%.

 

[IlDestriero]

Unless you belong to top 2% income bracket , life is not easy for anyone. Actually you are better off if you are from a poor family background, you get a lot of support and benefits including full ride. I am not vilifying anyone, I am from a poor background too, we have to be practical and balanced. If you completed college, took mcat and applied to medical schools , you are as privileged as anyone else.

Let me repeat again, if the admission process is open and transparent, the frustration will be minimal. If all of us get to see everyone’s application, credentials, scores , decisions with justification, we can have a meaningful conversation.

The admission process is not only arbitrary and secretive, but there is zero oversight or accountability which causes more heartburn. IMHO, 83% admissions rate for the highest achievers is not a high number. It has to be at least 98%.

Your assumption that high achievers, defined by a high GPA and MCAT score, all deserve admission to medical school is false.
This also has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Maybe you should make a new post and you’ll get a better discussion.

 

[USN2MD]

Your assumption that high achievers, defined by a high GPA and MCAT score, all deserve admission to medical school is false.
This also has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Maybe you should make a new post and you’ll get a better discussion.

I don’t think they want a discussion.

 

[senecca]

Is this another r/premed post? Again, this is also the internet where we can talk about the danger of Jewish space lasers.

One adcom faculty member is just one adcom faculty member. Decision are not made by one faculty member; it comes from a consensus vote of the admissions committee which can comprise of 20-50 people! Your example is not representative of all of the allo and osteo med schools, or any of the other professions' adcoms.

Those of us who run and document the admissions process/decisions do care that decisions are made based on appropriate precedent, standards, and logic.

It is not just one adcom member . He posted an official PowerPoint slide explaining the weight given to every criteria. It is the guidance for every team member.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

It is not just one adcom member . He posted an official PowerPoint slide explaining the weight given to every criteria. It is the guidance for every team member.

I get where you come from. It's interesting that I recently read an article in the New York Times about India's cram city, Kota. They have 2.6 million test takers every year for 60k spots in Engineering and Medical school spots. The only criteria for their selection is that test score. People try many many times until they can't afford the tests anymore and then they go back to their villages to be whatever they can be.

The double-edged sword the of America health system is that doctors get paid so much here. Because of this, the intent of the premed becomes quite an issue. Without setting your foot in medicine for a day of work, it's hard for a premed to understand what it is like to take care of patients. There's a lot of temptation in medicine to just focus on making a sh**t ton of money and it's quite frankly the goal of lot of doctors anyway. So here in America, admissions deans style themselves as the last gatekeeper to syphon out those pre-meds and I think stats are the biggest confounders for that purpose. So I will argue that the 16% of high stats who didn't get in are the ones who just can't pass the sniff test of their motives. Either way, this is a big digression from the original post. I hope you get into medical school and be happy with this career choice. Once you are on the other side of the wall, you will see the whole thing very differently.

 

[Goro]

*sigh* Admission to medical school, and a career in Medicine, is a privilege, not a right. It is not a reward for being a good student or having high MCAT + GPA. You wanna be a doctor? Earn it.

 

[Med Ed]

Let me repeat again, if the admission process is open and transparent, the frustration will be minimal. If all of us get to see everyone’s application, credentials, scores , decisions with justification, we can have a meaningful conversation.

The admission process is not only arbitrary and secretive, but there is zero oversight or accountability which causes more heartburn. IMHO, 83% admissions rate for the highest achievers is not a high number. It has to be at least 98%.

Based on what you have shared in this thread, I don't think it's any secret why you didn't get in on the first attempt. You appear unrelentingly bitter and without insight. You also seem startlingly immature, wishing the world to change itself around dramatically in order to accommodate your desires.

Any admissions process will have its shortcomings, but in your case it may have worked perfectly.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Based on what you have shared in this thread, I don't think it's any secret why you didn't get in on the first attempt. You appear unrelentingly bitter and without insight. You also seem startlingly immature, wishing the world to change itself around dramatically in order to accommodate your desires.

Any admissions process will have its shortcomings, but in your case it may have worked perfectly.

This is such a judge-y comment. Really insensitive and unnecessarily cruel.

 

[ihoop24]

Actually you are better off if you are from a poor family background, you get a lot of support and benefits including full ride. I am not vilifying anyone, I am from a poor background too, we have to be practical and balanced. If you completed college, took mcat and applied to medical schools , you are as privileged as anyone else.

In what world is someone better off if they are poor? This is such a bizarre take.

 

[Med Ed]

This is such a judge-y comment. Really insensitive and unnecessarily cruel.

Coming from the guy who said primary care is "equally tedious and boring to a lot of people who want to practice real medicine."

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Coming from the guy who said primary care is "equally tedious and boring to a lot of people who want to practice real medicine."

that's not cruel, and you are free to disagree on that. But Yours is cruel and oozes with this nastiness.

 

[bossssss]

This is such a judge-y comment. Really insensitive and unnecessarily cruel.

Idk man... the guy/girl literally said "If you completed college, took mcat and applied to medical schools , you are as privileged as anyone else" like whaaat? what a slap in the face to us first-gen low-income applicants who've had to work throughout college to support ourselves + our families to get here, and who also came from underfunded high schools & had to overcome educational gaps compared to our prep school peers in undergrad.

And the "Actually you are better off if you are from a poor family background" really reeks of not having a great grasp or ability to reflect on the many walks of life people come from. It really did sound entitled & quite frankly delusional to think that a 3.8 & 517 should basically guarantee your admission to med school. I'd personally be horrified to have a physician who lacks such awareness of socioeconomic & psychological factors that impact a person's access to care, resources, perpetual chronic stress, etc.

 

[Med Ed]

that's not cruel, and you are free to disagree on that.

I agree with @Moko that it was offensive on many levels.

But Yours is cruel and oozes with this nastiness and sorry for my language (b-ness).

Your response to his misfortune (Any admissions process will have its shortcomings, but in your case it may have worked perfectly.)
My response to his misfortune (I hope you get into medical school and be happy with this career choice. Once you are on the other side of the wall, you will see the whole thing very differently.)

You are a physician, and you should at least not be cruel to someone because of their failing and misfortune. You are free to disagree with other's opinions.

Alternate explanation: the truth hurts.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I agree with @Moko that it was offensive on many levels.


Alternate explanation: the truth hurts.

Offensive in the sense that you don’t agree with me.

The real truth would be that he may change his thinking a bit and try to go with the flow.

You made a nasty comment about someone’s misfortune. Just think about that for a hot minute.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

ER=1126782]@senecca[/USER] @srirachamayonnaise Why do you want to be a doctor?

what am I? Premed again?! lol. But accordingly, it looks like you are the one who still needs to answer this question convincingly.

 

[Med Ed]

Offensive in the sense that you don’t agree with me.

No, it's objectively offensive to the thousands of physicians who have dedicated their professional lives to being the first point of contact most people have with the healthcare system. It seems that in spite of your T14 JD and M7 MBA you still find it amusing to denigrate certain specialties.

Such is the role of the Enfant Provacateur, I suppose.

You made a nasty comment about someone’s misfortune. Just think about that for a hot minute.

If you deploy your T14 JD/M7 MBA skills you may notice that my language (i.e., "Based on what you have shared" "You appear" "You also seem") was actually fairly measured.

Besides, not getting into medical school isn't a misfortune. A misfortune is getting killed by a meteor on your birthday. Not getting into medical school simply a time to put aside your ego, reevaluate your approach, and decide whether or not to re-commit yourself to the process. Once in awhile it's necessary to set aside the sugarcoating and coddling and just tell someone that if they want to get in, the first thing they need to do is grow the Hell up.

🍿

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

No, it's objectively offensive to the thousands of physicians who have dedicated their professional lives to being the first point of contact most people have with the healthcare system. It seems that in spite of your T14 JD and M7 MBA you still find it amusing to denigrate certain specialties.

Such is the role of the Enfant Provacateur, I suppose.


If you deploy your T14 JD/M7 MBA skills you may notice that my language (i.e., "Based on what you have shared" "You appear" "You also seem") was actually fairly measured.

Besides, not getting into medical school isn't a misfortune. A misfortune is getting killed by a meteor on your birthday. Not getting into medical school simply a time to put aside your ego, reevaluate your approach, and decide whether or not to re-commit yourself to the process. Once in awhile it's necessary to set aside the sugarcoating and coddling and just tell someone that if they want to get in, the first thing they need to do is grow the Hell up.

🍿

I guess the flash point is whether what I consider "real" medicine is in line with what you consider. I may have used the less precise language, but I don't find primary care intellectually stimulating to me. That has nothing to do with whether I feel people who work in primary care should be looked down upon or not. As a matter of fact, I really get along with my Family medicine preceptor and we agree on many points of what constitutes more interesting medicine vs run-of-the-mill primary care CC's. Primary care physicians mainly have become a referral point and their day-to-day life has become so boring and tedious to the point that a lot of them want to quit their jobs. I have to say that my experience with that is very much first hand since very few med schools require people to do a family med rotation for a year.

 

[Med Ed]

I guess the flash point is whether what I consider "real" medicine is in line with what you consider.

Since you have yet to practice a day in your life, I'll let you in on the secret:

When it's your patient, and your decision, and your signature, and your liability, and your license, and your livelihood, it's all real.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Since you have yet to practice a day in your life, I'll let you in on the secret:

When it's your patient, and your decision, and your signature, and your liability, and your license, and your livelihood, it's all real.

exactly my point, our definition of "real" is not the same. No need to try to put me down and be condescending to make your point. I will be "real" doctor in no time. Lol.

To answer your point, I do sign off on my patient notes (Epic allows it now and the hospital system uses my notes to bill the patients) and my school malpractice insurance covers my practice the only difference is I am paying the hospital and school to work for them.

 

[Lawpy]

Let’s steer back to the main topic pls

HMS withdraws from US News.

Who else will follow?

 

[Goro]

Let’s steer back to the main topic pls

HMS withdraws from US News.

Who else will follow?

My guess it will be from the top down.

 

[Med Ed]

Let’s steer back to the main topic pls

HMS withdraws from US News.

Who else will follow?

My money is on Stanford.

 

[Moko]

Moderator note:
This thread has run its course. Certain posts have been edited/removed to clean up the thread. Some friendly advice, if you are in a hole, please stop digging. For everyone else, please enjoy this picture: