Has anyone turned down an acceptance and got in the next cycle?

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basketball_grey

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Has anyone ever turned down an acceptance from a school and then reapplied again the next year to get into their state school/top school? After recently been pulled off a waitlist from a private east coast school I have the chance to matriculate this fall. The total cost for the school would be over 400,000 dollars compared to a state school that would cost half as much. I applied to the private school as a backup but did not expect to get into there let alone pulled off the waitlist. So now the dilemma of possibly trying to get into a cheaper school the next year versus taking what I have now is at hand. Just wanted to know if anyone has actually denied an acceptance and then gotten in to a cheaper/more desirable school the next year? Also, I know you have to list whether you were accepted or not on your application but other than that how do schools actually know?

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It doesn't look very good to deny an admission offer. You will have to explain it if you reapply because since you put it on the app they will ask. Some might not understand that you want to save money and just think that you should accept any offer, because at the end of the day, you want to be a dentist, right? Not saying I think like that, but some older dentists might. There are also zero guarantees of being accepted to a state school, and if you don't get in, you're screwed.
 
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^pretty much

Also, many schools have secondaries and a popular question for reapplicants is 'what has changed / what have you been doing?' So bear those things in mind if you decide to reapply.

The thought of owing more than 400k is terrifying, but it's not financial suicide (shocking! This differs from the popular opinion on SDN nowadays). You know what is financial suicide? Putting $400k in stocks of a new company that has no history or potential. A dental degree WILL pay itself off.

Personally, I know of a UOP grad that was nearly $500k in debt and was crying about how it on earth is she is going to pay it off (when she first graduated). She is doing very well for herself now! She travels, has a nice car, takes care of her parents and makes aggressive payments toward that debt. It's definitely manageable. Of course, if you got into a cheaper school, you should go. However, risking your career on the possibility that maybe you will get into your state school? That's a financially suicidal decision in my opinion.
 
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I agree with @sweetpeeas. You should probably accept the offer. If you weren't set on planning to attend if accepted, why did you apply? That's the part that looks bad (as if you're wasting the school's time). Another year you aren't in school is another year of lost income, think of it like that.
 
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I have a friend that deferred at UOP and got in the following year.
 
I would take the offer. You shouldn't have applied there if you wouldn't have attended IMO
 
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Less popular opinion: do something terrible and get the acceptance rescinded. Then hide that next year instead ;)
 
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The thought of owing more than 400k is terrifying, but it's not financial suicide

Is this really the case? All I see on here is people freaking out about a large amount of debt. Thank you for the responses guys. Keep them coming
 
Also there is opportunity cost. If you put off being a dentist for one year, that is one less year you will be earning income as a dentist. Factor that in and the price difference between schools is far less...and that's assuming you even are accepted to your state school next year
 
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That is true. But my state school is literally half the cost of the private school.
 
I'm with you on the whole opportunity cost. The savings, when interest is taken into account, are often much greater than your first year salary, and greater than the average GP salary too. But I still stand by my original point that you should take the acceptance and pursue the 3 year HPSP.
How competitive is the HPSP? And are there other scholarship options such as WICHE funded ones as well? The HPSP doesn't really appeal to me a whole lot but having no debt would be nice as well. I just wonder how long it has taken some people who graduated with over 400,000 to pay it back without any scholarship assistance. Milage varies I am sure.
 
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Is this really the case? All I see on here is people freaking out about a large amount of debt. Thank you for the responses guys. Keep them coming

Uhh, did you read the rest of my post lol. Remember than SDN is not a true representation of all the predents, applicants, incoming/current dental students, and dentists. While majority of SDNers will say it's 'financial suicide' to take upon $400k debt, many people are willing to take your place because they see the true value of a dental education. Actually, if you do end up dropping your spot, you will be making someone very happy so I suppose it's not a bad thing.

How competitive is the HPSP? And are there other scholarship options such as WICHE funded ones as well? The HPSP doesn't really appeal to me a whole lot but having no debt would be nice as well. I just wonder how long it has taken some people who graduated with over 400,000 to pay it back without any scholarship assistance. Milage varies I am sure.

It depends on your income and how much you are willing to tough it out. Some of my friends move back in with their parents so they can make (srsly) aggressive payments within their first few years, and generally live frugally until majority of their debt is paid off. With aggressive payments ($5k+ per month), it's possibly to pay off all your dental school debt in under 10 years. However, with future house and practice debt, you are on your own to calculate the debt there.

Inner conspirist thought: I come from a family of dentists and have friends that are dentists (recent & older grads) and I have never found any dentist that could not pay off their debt (or make payments). I think some people got bored of waiting to be accepted from the waitlist, and decided to generate the "$400k debt, financial suicide, no thanks" fiasco to scare of people from that school so they would get in LOLOL! I am just kidding.... It's probably that people ran out of things to talk about and decided to see who had it worse by measuring the amt of debt they would be accumulating.
 
That is true. But my state school is literally half the cost of the private school.
Well, if you earn say $100,000 in your first year as a dentist, that cuts a lot into it. Plus expect tuition will increase every year, so that will cut into your savings, too, as well as application fees and interview expenses. I'm not saying it all adds up to make the school's equal in cost, but with the opportunity cost it is not literally twice as much. So the savings are not as much they appear at first blush. Combine that with the risk you will not be admitted to your state school, or perhaps anywhere, if you reapply. You didn't get in this year to your state school, why would that change next year? And what if you are in the same situation next year, you don't get into your state school but you get into a high priced private school? You've just wasted a year and $100,000 plus in opportunity cost for nothing. Or worst case scenario, you reapply and don't get in anywhere. Why in the world would you take that risk to avoid some debt?

Sure, you can gamble, and if you get into your state school you would save some money. But it seems like a crazy gamble. You should appreciate what you have. I see a lot of highly qualified applicants still have no acceptances, and assuming just because you got accepted this year you will next year is a huge assumption.
 
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Yes you can apply after the first year for the HPSP. That's why the 3 year would be a good option for you (4 year HPSP needs to be obtained before starting school, I believe, because I don't think they would retroactively pay your first year's tuition). I'm not sure about WICHE funded scholarships. I know the NHSC is vastly more competitive than the HPSP and it is very rare that somebody who is not from an undeserved area gets the scholarship. There are always exceptions though.

The HPSP competitiveness depends on a lot of things. First off, there is a difference between the branches. The general consensus is Air Force>Navy>Army in terms of competitiveness. There is also a huge wildcard factor in how good your recruiter is at vouching for you, handling your paperwork, ensuring everything is done in a timely manner, etc. Anecdotally there is a wide variety of outcomes. There have been people with 3.8/23 AA that have been rejected from the Army HPSP as well as someone who managed to get a 4 year HPSP contingent upon a dental school acceptance and somehow managed to not even get into Touro. My opinion is that ****ty recruiter and applying too late or having terrible interview skills contributed to these two outcomes respectively, but who knows what really happens. Also, history of physical illness/injury in certain cases could get you disqualified from being eligible for the scholarship.

To vastly oversimplify and make assumptions, if you have a 3.7 and a 21 or 22 GPA, and a recruiter who is really in your corner, you shouldn't have a problem getting the HPSP if you apply early enough to all three branches. This is for 4 year HPSP, I don't know how different the competitiveness is for 3 year HPSP.

Word of warning, if you do HPSP solely for the money you will likely be miserable.

As for how long it will take you to pay off $400,000 in loans:

Below is a copy and pasted take on UAB vs Louisville tuition for another SDNer that I did awhile back. Your in-state vs whatever private school to which you have an acceptance will vary from what's described below, but it's a good comparison benchmark.

So let's look at cost only first. With projected tuition increases, fees and other chicken**** charges, living expenses, and interest accrued in school I have you graduating from UAB with $207,200 of debt. It's important to note that I have projected all of your loans to be unsubsidized Stafford, meaning you have the lower interest rate of 5.84%. I didn't calculate your origination fee, but it's going to make only a small increase in your balance compared to the 4% origination fee that the Grad Plus loans would from another school. We'll get into that later. So for UAB, if you wanted to repay your loans in the following amounts of time, this is what your monthly payments would look like.

5 years- $3,990.36 w/$32,221.57 of interest paid over the life of your loan
6 years- $3,418.27 w/$38,915.86 interest
7 years- $3,011.02 w/$45,726.19 interest
8 years-$2,706.79 w/$52,651.88 interest
9 years- $2,471.23 w/$59,692.71 interest
10 years- $2,283.73 w/$66,847.98 interest

Now let's take Louisville, just as an example that you had used earlier in the thread (also a decent example because it as a more OOS friendly public than some others). With rounding, unsubsidized Stafford covers around $47,000 per year. So that means that you'll be on the hook for pretty much that amount once more for the GradPlus, which has the 4% origination fee and the 6.8% interest. So, without taking into account inevitable tuition increases and going off what you have based on your table, with interest accrued during school and your origination fees you're at $446,000 of debt coming out of Louisville.

SIDE NOTE: anyone who wants explanation of these calculations just ask and I'll post them. I know $446,000 for Louisville seems too high but it's not.

So here's your Louisville repayment plan

5 years- $8,589.29/mo w/$69,357.21 interest
6 years-$7,357.87/mo w/$83,766.60 intersect
7 years-$6,481.26/mo w/$98,425.83 interest
8 years-$5,826.39/mo w/$113,333.79 interest
9 years- $5,319.34/mo w/$128,489.25 interest
10 years- $4,915.76/mo w/$143,890.41 interest

Let's say you get lucky and as an associate in a state with no state income tax you're making $150,000 a year. Let's also assume you're married with one child (both of which decrease your tax burden), and your wife makes $50,000 while being debt free (another assumption that would help you out. Of your household's $200,000 of income, you keep $164,000 of it. In order to pay off Louisville in 5 years, you would have to live off of $61,000 a year. If your wife didn't work or you were single, you'd live off of $11,000 a year. Louisville's 10 year would have you living off of $105,020 a year, or $55,020 a year if you are a one income household. However, you would be paying $74,000 extra in interest over the life of the 10 year as opposed to the 5 year.

Now let's use the same situation with UAB. You would live off of $116,120 a year or $66,120 if single income for the 5 year plan. On the 10 year you would live off $136,596 or $86,596 depending on wife status, with only $34,000 extra in interest.

So as you've said, your desire is eventually to own your own practice. These numbers pretty much put to rest the "one year not in school means one year of lost income" argument of going to a private school this cycle vs UAB next cycle. By going to a private school over UAB, you're losing much more than a year's worth of income. Hell, if you're doing the 10 year plan (which I don't recommend,but it might be your best bet down the road given your situation), it's possible that you'll be losing a year's worth of post-tax income IN INTEREST ALONE when comparing the two options.It is financial suicide to attend a private school if it's not your only option, given your scenario of wanting to open up your own GP office. You would be better off just going military and borrowing the loans to borrow the practice once you're out.

The scumbag strikes again!
Great post.
 
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I don't think taking out $400,000 in loans is financial suicide, but I do think that doing so in lieu of taking out $200,000 to go to your state schools is very foolish, and amounts to logic suicide. If you're fortunate and worked hard enough to have that choice, that is.

Oh yes, I definitely agree! I was pretty set on going to a private school, since I was WL at my state school. Didn't even go to my NYU interview cus that would've been even MORE expensive in the off chance I got in. However, I thank the heavens to someone who dropped 'cus now I am going to my state school.

OP, did you improve your app/ do anything different over this past year? Unless you did and previously received an interview at your state school (but didn't get in), I wouldn't recommend reapplying.
 
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Well, if you earn say $100,000 in your first year as a dentist, that cuts a lot into it. Plus expect tuition will increase every year, so that will cut into your savings, too, as well as application fees and interview expenses. I'm not saying it all adds up to make the school's equal in cost, but with the opportunity cost it is not literally twice as much. So the savings are not as much they appear at first blush. Combine that with the risk you will not be admitted to your state school, or perhaps anywhere, if you reapply. You didn't get in this year to your state school, why would that change next year? And what if you are in the same situation next year, you don't get into your state school but you get into a high priced private school? You've just wasted a year and $100,000 plus in opportunity cost for nothing. Or worst case scenario, you reapply and don't get in anywhere. Why in the world would you take that risk to avoid some debt?

Sure, you can gamble, and if you get into your state school you would save some money. But it seems like a crazy gamble. You should appreciate what you have. I see a lot of highly qualified applicants still have no acceptances, and assuming just because you got accepted this year you will next year is a huge assumption.


If you make a $100k a year, that damn sure doesn't mean you are going to put that all towards a loan. You're not going to have much left of $100k after servicing $400k + 6.8% loan payments.
 
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If you make a $100k a year, that damn sure doesn't mean you are going to put that all towards a loan. You're not going to have much left of $100k after servicing $400k + 6.8% loan payments.
If you make a $100k a year, that damn sure doesn't mean you are going to put that all towards a loan. You're not going to have much left of $100k after servicing $400k + 6.8% loan payments.
Where did I write that all $100,000 would go to the loan? The fact is if you (the general you,not you specifically) put off going for a year, four years from now you will be in your fourth year of dental school rather than out earning a dentist's salary. So you've lost a whole year of salary, less whatever you may earn in your break year. That is a real cost of putting off dental school.

As far as how much $ there will be to pay back, you act as if you are comparing a $400,000 loan to nothing. You are under the hypothetical comparing a $400,000 loan to something more than a $200,000 loan due to anticipated tuition increases. And people take out $400,000 loans all the time...they are called mortgages. Nobody says you have to pay your loan back in 5 years. Regardless, the point is the comparison is not simply a $400,000 to $200,000 comparison. Most importantly, it is foolish and presumptuous to assume that if you don't get into the state school the first time, it will work out the second time. It's not like the OP has an offer to attend the state school next year that can be banked on.
 
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No one turns down stony brook if accepted
 
Oh yes, I definitely agree! I was pretty set on going to a private school, since I was WL at my state school. Didn't even go to my NYU interview cus that would've been even MORE expensive in the off chance I got in. However, I thank the heavens to someone who dropped 'cus now I am going to my state school.

OP, did you improve your app/ do anything different over this past year? Unless you did and previously received an interview at your state school (but didn't get in), I wouldn't recommend reapplying.

In answer to this question I have been working on my app since I applied last year. I have doubled my volunteer hours, doubled my shadowing hours, and taking a class in order to stay academically relevant. The only reason my state school had for not granting me an interview was low shadowing hours which I have since fixed
 
Hindsight is 20/20, but this is why it is important to apply when you're a strong enough applicant for your state school. I waited out a cycle so that my last year of grades could show up on my transcript and so that I could sufficiently study for the DAT. Also, hindsight is 20/20...

I can't seem to remember, hindsight is what again? :D
 
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Any other thoughts?
Take the spot, and deal with the payments, you'll be fine.
You have the opportunity to become a dentist NOW. there is no guarantee you will have that option with reapplying.
Take the seat, make smart financial choices after geaduation, and you'll be fine.
 
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I got into lecom and turned it down to reapply. Got into my state school next cycle (and lecom again actually). It was a tough decision though.
 
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I got into lecom and turned it down to reapply. Got into my state school next cycle (and lecom again actually). It was a tough decision though.

Were you asked about why you reapplied?
 
Not that I remember, but that was 2.5-3 years ago.

Understood. AADSAS asks if you've been accepted previously/have turned it down, and then if you say yes, it asks you to explain. Do you remember what you said for that? Was it a financial reason?

Thank you for sharing Chill45, this is really valuable information to have.
 
Understood. AADSAS asks if you've been accepted previously/have turned it down, and then if you say yes, it asks you to explain. Do you remember what you said for that? Was it a financial reason?

Thank you for sharing Chill45, this is really valuable information to have.

Yes I would like to know what you put as well. Thank you for chiming in.
 
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"Have you ever applied to dental school prior to the present application cycle?
If yes, include the name of schools to which you applied and year(s) of application. If accepted/enrolled, indicate dates of
enrollment.
If yes, what has changed since your last application?"

This is what the application asks you to answer. I had mine saved from last year. So really in that case there is no explanation needed just a yes/no.
 
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Somebody could go to the roulette table and bet her life savings on black, and after she hit it tell you that it was a tough decision but it worked out. If you are a gambler, go for it. But if it comes up red, don't say you weren't warned by virtually everybody who has responded that it was a risk not worth taking.
 
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To be fair I think I am a highly competitive applicant (3.7 gpa and 22 DAT) so having a shot again would be reasonable especially since I have been improving things since last June. My state school even emailed me and said they have had students say no to a school to reapply. Not saying that is the right decision but it has happened.

My question is though why over on Dentaltown do all the dentists say over 300,000 debt is generally not worth it if you can avoid it (i.e. state school etc)? It just seems to me that people actually out in the field would have a better grasp of the situation than others.
 
Why is that mang?
It's filled with pessimistic people. I just think some of them try to scare others that want to go into dentistry. Obviously avoid as much debt as possible if it actually is feasible.
 
Over 400k for dental school is not financial suicide.....yet. I would say, if your dental school loans total up to over 550k after graduation, that's when the return on investment goes sour. Even if u work as an associate, ur still gonna be grossing 140k/ year, taking home around 100k. If u live off of 20k and pay the rest in student loans, u should be able to pay everything back within 10 years.
 
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Over 400k for dental school is not financial suicide.....yet. I would say, if your dental school loans total up to over 550k after graduation, that's when the return on investment goes sour. Even if u work as an associate, ur still gonna be grossing 140k/ year, taking home around 100k. If u live off of 20k and pay the rest in student loans, u should be able to pay everything back within 10 years.

I agree with your math.

The issue is- how many people are going to amenable to the idea that, in order to pay off their loans by themselves & as soon as possible, they are going to have to a) live on $20K/yr after becoming a doctor (and that too for 10 yrs, thereby postponing the coveted "doctor lifestyle") and b) not be able to spend on anything that they want (could be cars, houses, or saving for retirement). By not investing for retirement for 10 years, that's a HUGE loss in terms of interest!
 
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Over 400k for dental school is not financial suicide.....yet. I would say, if your dental school loans total up to over 550k after graduation, that's when the return on investment goes sour. Even if u work as an associate, ur still gonna be grossing 140k/ year, taking home around 100k. If u live off of 20k and pay the rest in student loans, u should be able to pay everything back within 10 years.


Stop lying to yallself.. No-one is going to be living on $20k after school.
 
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I agree with your math.

The issue is- how many people are going to amenable to the idea that, in order to pay off their loans by themselves & as soon as possible, they are going to have to a) live on $20K/yr after becoming a doctor (and that too for 10 yrs, thereby postponing the coveted "doctor lifestyle") and b) not be able to spend on anything that they want (could be cars, houses, or saving for retirement). By not investing for retirement for 10 years, that's a HUGE loss in terms of interest!

Right? It stinks big time, but thats what you give up. We can't all be Ortho surgeons taking home 600K/year ;)

I think that people should just be aware of what it is actually like to live on 20K/year, how much D school will actually costs, what your actual take home will be, etc. It is extremely important for a student in any non "medical school" field (Optometry, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.) to be aware of the cost, not only financially, but year wise, and not go into this eyes wide shut. The cash just simply isn't there like it is in MD/DO Medicine (Although they have a big financial target on their back right now with the Affordable Flop Act), and because of the high student loans, the opportunity to go into private practice is almost nonexistent in the near future (Where the big bucks are in Dentistry), which will lead to people only becoming associates. There are general practice dentists with their own practice that earn near 400K-500K/year, some even more!

I mean, its not too bad for the Dentist that got out of D school at age 26, 36 year old debt free making 100-140K/year take home is pretty snazzy. Its the student who entered D school at age 26, gets out at 30 and wants to have a family that should really consider the financial investment. Look at Optometry 15 years ago. Great gig; low six figure salary, good hours, not a ton of blood, only 4 years of schooling, low stress and now? There are people on the OD boards saying that the world is ending literally tomorrow for the profession.
 
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I think that people should just be aware of what it is actually like to live on 20K/year, how much D school will actually costs, what your actual take home will be, etc. It is extremely important for a student in any non "medical school" field (Optometry, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.) to be aware of the cost, not only financially, but year wise, and not go into this eyes wide shut. The cash just simply isn't there like it is in MD/DO Medicine (Although they have a big financial target on their back right now with the Affordable Flop Act), and because of the high student loans, the opportunity to go into private practice is almost nonexistent in the near future (Where the big bucks are in Dentistry), which will lead to people only becoming associates. There are general practice dentists with their own practice that earn near 400K-500K/year, some even more!

I mean, its not too bad for the Dentist that got out of D school at age 26, 36 year old debt free making 100-140K/year take home is pretty snazzy. Its the student who entered D school at age 26, gets out at 30 and wants to have a family that should really consider the financial investment. Look at Optometry 15 years ago. Great gig; low six figure salary, good hours, not a ton of blood, only 4 years of schooling, low stress and now? There are people on the OD boards saying that the world is ending literally tomorrow for the profession.

It's good that you're trying to raise awareness of this issue- thank you.
 
Now, back on track OP

Do you want to be a dentist? If you do, take this opportunity and never look back. As someone who got rejected by all but one medical schools he applied to and waitlisted at said interviewed school, I yearn for a seat in the class. You really don't know how good u got it. If you don't want to be a dentist however, that is a whole other set of issues, and you should give up your seat.
 
It has nothing to do with not being a dentist gypsy. I want to be one for sure and to be able to give back to others using my knowledge, but I also can't discount the future and the reality of that amount of debt. If you want to own a private practice someday, like most do, it makes it extremely challenging
 
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I don't know why people don't understand....
YES taking out $400K is a huge albatross.
No. It is not the end of the world.
Having a DDS/DMD opens a world of opportunity. You can associate, go corporate, open a practice, specialize (if you're lucky enough). The beauty is HOW you work.
If you open your own practice, it's up to YOU to do the research and be prepared to run a business. As an associate, you are working for someone else and lining their pockets. Open your own/buy one out and now the money you make is yours. As long as you are able to keep overhead low, production high, and try to maximize your profit margin (ethically, morally, and most important LEGALLY), then there's no reason why that huge student debt won't be paid off in a timely manner.
It's all about smart investments and practices. A cheaper dental education is a smarter investment. But a more expensive dental education isn't necessarily a BAD investment, you just have to work smarter and harder to get that ROI.

Even @fancymylotus says so!!
 
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