Help!

[MDApplicant3]

Hi everyone. I am a current US medical student and got my step 1 scores a few weeks ago. I did much worse than I expected getting 227. Is that competitive for neurosurgery? Is there anything I can do to make up for it?

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[neusu]

A 227 is not competitive, but people do match with that score. To make up for it, score higher on Step II, do research/make connections, and do well on rotations and your subIs. Also, when applying, be realistic about programs to which you apply. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions etc.

 

[Encephalectomy]

Hi everyone. I am a current US medical student and got my step 1 scores a few weeks ago. I did much worse than I expected getting 227. Is that competitive for neurosurgery? Is there anything I can do to make up for it?

you have an 82% chance of matching based on your step 1 score alone according to the 2011 charting outcomes data. your step 1 score is about 10 points below the average for matched applicants, so 'not competitive' is a good description, but your odds of matching period are pretty good.

I would talk to your home program director, but my thoughts...

things to make up for your lower step one score...

1 great research-being a PhD or HHMI/Dorris Duke would help you out, if not that then a good publication record-consider taking a year off for research

2 stellar letters-look at your clinical grades third year, if you are doing very well then you are more likely to do very well on your neurosurgery sub-is and get better letters (if not then you need to figure out what to change asap)

3. stand out sub-i- if you spend a month somewhere and they really like you they are more likely to look past your grades. I would think about doing an extra away rotation if you have the stamina for it (1 home + 3 aways) make sure at least 3 of those 4 are places where you have a higher liklihood of matching (i.e. 'less competitive' programs, many of which are excellent)

4 strong advocacy from your home program- do they know you well and like you already? if not you are a little late

5. like neusu said, target programs you are likely to match at and consider having a backup specialty

good luck!

 

[Frunkey]

I just matched in neurosurgery in the 2013 match with a 226. It can be done...but it sure wasn't easy, and you may not have the same result. I did NOT double apply in Gen Surg, but I sure was close to needing it.

Tips for matching with a Step 1 in the 220's:

--Do not be discouraged. Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.

--Realize you are at a disadvantage to the guys with 260+ Step scores and PhD's. You WILL NOT match at an elite institution, even if you rotate there. It just won't happen. All elite schools have a "cutoff" around 240, which means your app will go directly into the circular file most places.

--Bearing this in mind, apply accordingly. Apply broadly and deeply. I applied to 80 out of the 99 programs. I got 11 Interviews. I matched well down my list, but I still matched.

--Start working on other ways to set yourself apart. Get involved in extracurriculars: volunteer, leadership positions, sports, clubs, etc.

--Get a research project under your belt. My only neurosurgical "research" was a case report and poster presentation. Something > Nothing. I had research in chemistry from college and Orthopedics from medical school. Surgically-oriented research is always a plus.

--Apply for away rotations at schools where you could potentially match. I have heard too many of my colleagues who rotated at elite institutions (BNI, MGH, etc.) who were not even invited for an interview. One away at a "reach" school could be helpful, if and only if you obtain a stellar letter from a chairman.

--On your aways, work harder than you have ever worked in your life. Come early, leave late. No weekends, no life outside the hospital. It's only a couple of months, and it will pay off. I did my home institution and 2 aways.

--Get great letters. Chairman letters are gold. PD letters are silver. All other NS letters are bronze. I had 5 letters. 3 chairmen, 1 PD from my home school, 1 neurosurgeon from my home school.

--Be charismatic. A great personality will carry you a long way in this field.

--Get involved with your home program. Go to conferences, courses, grand rounds. Your best chance is always at your home school, but only if they know who you are. This will also help with letters later.

--Never give up.

In summary, you can do it. It will take alot of effort, but it can be done.

Happy trails!

 

[Daodejing]

^Great post. Thank you, and congrats on matching!

 

[happyfeet123]

Does anyone know if your general surgery rotation grade is looked at super seriously for neurosurgery apps? My school has so many little grades that sum up for the surgery rotation. Mix that up with exhausted residents who just give straight passing grades plus a mediocre shelf performance results in a grade significantly lower than all my other clerkships. Even if I were to ace the shelf, the highest i could end up with would be in the low-mid 80s.

 

[kautionwirez]

M1 here:

how bad does it look if you don't honor neuroscience?

 

[Frunkey]

Does anyone know if your general surgery rotation grade is looked at super seriously for neurosurgery apps? My school has so many little grades that sum up for the surgery rotation. Mix that up with exhausted residents who just give straight passing grades plus a mediocre shelf performance results in a grade significantly lower than all my other clerkships. Even if I were to ace the shelf, the highest i could end up with would be in the low-mid 80s.

I "passed" my surgery rotation. I made the lowest score of all my my shelf exams on this rotation. I matched.

Show your strength during NSG rotations and your other core clinicals.

 

[Frunkey]

M1 here:

how bad does it look if you don't honor neuroscience?

I did not honor my neuroscience course. Be consistent with your work, and try to show improvement over time.

 

[Silent Cool]

What med school did you attend?

thanx

 

[AndreaBackmann]

I just matched in neurosurgery in the 2013 match with a 226. It can be done...but it sure wasn't easy, and you may not have the same result. I did NOT double apply in Gen Surg, but I sure was close to needing it.

Tips for matching with a Step 1 in the 220's:

--Do not be discouraged. Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.

--Realize you are at a disadvantage to the guys with 260+ Step scores and PhD's. You WILL NOT match at an elite institution, even if you rotate there. It just won't happen. All elite schools have a "cutoff" around 240, which means your app will go directly into the circular file most places.

--Bearing this in mind, apply accordingly. Apply broadly and deeply. I applied to 80 out of the 99 programs. I got 11 Interviews. I matched well down my list, but I still matched.

--Start working on other ways to set yourself apart. Get involved in extracurriculars: volunteer, leadership positions, sports, clubs, etc.

--Get a research project under your belt. My only neurosurgical "research" was a case report and poster presentation. Something > Nothing. I had research in chemistry from college and Orthopedics from medical school. Surgically-oriented research is always a plus.

--Apply for away rotations at schools where you could potentially match. I have heard too many of my colleagues who rotated at elite institutions (BNI, MGH, etc.) who were not even invited for an interview. One away at a "reach" school could be helpful, if and only if you obtain a stellar letter from a chairman.

--On your aways, work harder than you have ever worked in your life. Come early, leave late. No weekends, no life outside the hospital. It's only a couple of months, and it will pay off. I did my home institution and 2 aways.

--Get great letters. Chairman letters are gold. PD letters are silver. All other NS letters are bronze. I had 5 letters. 3 chairmen, 1 PD from my home school, 1 neurosurgeon from my home school.

--Be charismatic. A great personality will carry you a long way in this field.

--Get involved with your home program. Go to conferences, courses, grand rounds. Your best chance is always at your home school, but only if they know who you are. This will also help with letters later.

--Never give up.

In summary, you can do it. It will take alot of effort, but it can be done.

Happy trails!

Thank you, Frunkey, for such an encouraging reply!
I have some questions about the LOR's. You wrote that you had 3 from chairmen - these are like from the heads of the departments you performed your 3 rotations, right? Is it reasonable for me if I get a LOR from the chairman of the neurosurgery department at my home institution (I will be an IMG) and a neurosurgeon I have worked together most of the time who also works at this department (who is also a chairman of society of neurosurgeons of my country) - of course these two will be overlapping in part, because of the same department...will it be legit to do so? I have been also working at the laboratory for several years on neuroscientific projects (as a student) - will it be useful if I get al LOR from the head of the laboratory linking my activities in the lab to possible future activities in neurosurgery (like perosnal qualities, work etc.)?
Thanks in advance!

 

[AndreaBackmann]

Alrighty, stupid me Just noticed that the post was a year ago... Anyway - if someone else has useful opinion on my questions - I will be pleased