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Hem/Onc Lifestyle/Salary/Satisfaction

Discussion in 'Hematology/Oncology' started by mdeast, Feb 23, 2011.

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  1. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    Your numbers are wrong. The Research Pathway (call it this because it is in no way fast) is 2y of IM, then 4y of Onc (if single boarding) or 4.5y if double boarding. So in the end it's the same or more time than the standard pathway.

    That said, skipping my IM3 year was the best decision I could have possibly made.
  2. Pewl

    Pewl The Dude Abides

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    I noticed that in the above graphs, there was no mention of radiation oncologists in the groupings, only "oncologists." This makes me wonder if they are lumping rad onc and med onc into one category. Based on the numbers I've seen, rad onc salaries tend to raise the aggregate "oncology" salaries in these groupings. I won't lie, median private practice rad onc salaries are kinda ridiculous. But, either way I think you'll be able to earn a reasonable income. :)
  3. asprin81

    asprin81

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    Rad Onc is always lumped with radoilogy, not with oncology
  4. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran

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    Thanks for the response, I was wondering if you could expand on this? Are new docs leaving the larger markets because they can't get enough patients? Difficult to make partner?

    Also, does anyone know how the chicago market is? I would like to end up in burbs of Chicago eventually :) Thanks.
  5. LennonMcCartney

    LennonMcCartney

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    It is supply and demand. The bigger cities while having larger populations to draw patients from also have an over saturation of physicians per 'paying' patient.
  6. shaggy alfresco

    shaggy alfresco

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    I find that the practice of Heme/Onc (outpatient) is very different from general IM (am I fair in saying this?).

    Are there any people who feel the same way? If so, how do you decide to do IM knowing you may not get a fellowship (do you have to only apply to 'high tier' university programs to 'guarantee' yourself a spot somewhere? I know it's more about how you perform in your residency as well)?
  7. KarmaDoc

    KarmaDoc

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    Why would rad oncs get lumped with radiologists? Rad oncs have the most years of pure oncology training compared to any other specialty. They also were treating cancer patients long before med oncs were even around.

    I have a feeling that the "wide variation in oncology salaries" are due to the fact that rad oncs are indeed being lumped with med oncs in those graphs.
  8. gojonn

    gojonn Member

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    KarmaDoc, after reading multiple comments by GutOnc, one of our best resources, I have to disagree with you. I highly doubt rad onc get's lumped in with med oncs causing a broad range in salaries. The large discrepencies is purely related to practice types, locations, and preferences (as in I prefer to see a lot of patients and make a lot more money).
  9. Pewl

    Pewl The Dude Abides

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    I think gojonn is correct. radiation oncology tends to get lumped in with radiology probably because we fall under the ABR (American Board of Radiology). All of our board exams/certifications etc are all through the ABR.

    Hell, our salary stats probably raise the aggregate radiology numbers as well. =P
  10. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran

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    Any thoughts on the future landscape with the upcoming election?
  11. DocIM

    DocIM

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    Getting a job in Hem/Onc has become increasingly difficult right now. I know 2 people from 2nd tier hem/Onc programs having trouble finding suitable positions, they already gave up looking in mid-big size cities.

    Apparently, hospitals are cutting down on hiring hem/Onc docs due to uncertainty resulting from the impending implementation of obamacare. So the next few years could be rough for hem/Onc grads.
  12. asprin81

    asprin81

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    This year I interviewed at 12 places, got 10 offers from NYC/NJ to LA/SF.... Jobs are everywhere...I don't know whats wrong with your friends CV or their expectations.....After Obamacare need for oncologist will go up, not down
  13. DocIM

    DocIM

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    Did you graduate from a top tier program? They have a lot of research background and went to mid-tier med schools. They do have offers, not great, but from not so desirable places in the middle of nowhere. Apparently, that is what many hospitals have told them. It is due to uncertainty of how implementation will occur and funding for obamacare that GOP will try to cut-off. So although it is law, implementation of obamacare depends on some federal funding. Yes, it will add many new patients but no one is sure about the implementation. Businesses don't like uncertainty and act accordingly when it comes to business decisions.
  14. tallash

    tallash

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    From "second tier" fellowship programs, keep in mind. I have no idea what that means to you, but the most desirable markets are always going to be competitive no matter the field and with/without Obamacare.

    FWIW, I'm hearing positive things from recent grads in my institution's program and there's generally an optimistic attitude re: the effects of Obamacare and HONC.
  15. Darkside

    Darkside Junior Member

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    I am a third year heme/onc fellow who lives in a major city in the US. It definitely has become more difficult to find a job in hematology/oncology. A lot of practices are not hiring because of the uncertainity of Obama care. Everyone is panicking a little and groups are being bought left and right. It will be a frustrating time for the graduates of heme/onc fellowship for the next several years.
  16. sanj238

    sanj238

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    Can you please elaborate on your comments about difficulty finding jobs? What does mid level or top tier mean?

    Is it hard to get a heme onc fellowship? What if I am a DO and go to a state level IM residency (not really ranked)?

    When people say undesirable what does that mean? I don't mind not living in the city but if you mean North Dakota thats an issue...(No offense to North Dakota)
  17. drknchkn

    drknchkn

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    Going rural may not be a bad idea. I heard of a new grad getting paid 400,000 starting at a rural state up north. That would never be possible in larger cities.
  18. johnsmith130077

    johnsmith130077

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    how are heme oncology salaries compared to average GI salaries?
  19. visari

    visari

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    real estate will make you more money than either of them ..go for it
  20. johnsmith130077

    johnsmith130077

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    i know... but i wanna choose between the 2- gi or heme onc?
  21. FiveRivers

    FiveRivers

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    Have the fellows that will be graduating this year started looking for jobs? Are most of you staying in the area you completed your fellowship? Or did you find a recruiter and find a job in a different part of the country? How's the job search coming along? Thank you for any input.
  22. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    My group has signed 3 contracts for new fellows starting July 1. None came from recruiters. One is local, 2 are from across the country.

    The fellows in my old program have all signed contracts already. None used recruiters.
  23. FiveRivers

    FiveRivers

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    Wow. That's amazing. Since you have experience with heme onc and job hunting in heme onc, maybe you can help me out. If I am doing my heme onc fellowship, say in the midwest or east coast, and I wish to work say, in Phoenix. Without using a recruiter, do fellows basically google hospitals in Phoenix and apply there? How did the fellows from across the country find out about the openings that your group had? I'm aware of websites that post physician job openings, but it just seems like there have to be more than just those.
  24. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    Some jobs are advertised. Ours were put on our website under "opportunities" but weren't advertised beyond that. Some jobs use recruiters but the popular wisdom is that, if you need to use a recruiter, there's something wrong with the job. Not always true of course, but something to think about. Most of the ads in JCO and Blood are for academic spots but free journals often have PP job ads in them. But yeah, mostly you Google "Phoenix Oncology" and go to the websites of the groups that pop up in your search. Either they will have a listing if they're looking for someone, or they'll say who the medical director is and you send that person an email/letter of interest and your CV.
  25. FiveRivers

    FiveRivers

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    That's great insight and information. Thanks a lot, appreciate it.
  26. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    It's not really "insight" as much as it is "how to find a job 101". If you're actually a med student, chances are high that you've never actually had to do this in your life. But many of us have. It's not hard.
  27. EMDO2018

    EMDO2018

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    Looked at the Medscape compensation survey, hem onc median was 300k in 2010, for 2013 it was 278k. One of the few fields declining in compensation every year. what is happening?
  28. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    See this post for a pretty good explanation of at least a few of the factors. It's also impossible to know who responded to the survey. For instance, I work PT and I answered the survey last year. So my response skewed it downward. A guy I know who's well into his career and sees on the order of 40-50 patients a day (and as a result has a baseline salary of well over $500K) was probably too damn busy to respond to it.
  29. llessac15

    llessac15 Junior Member

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    I am a practicing Oncologist in a small town in the South. We are a private group with 5 partners. Our incomes range from ~$350k-$950k. The format is based on production. If we were to hire someone new, he/she would come in making about a base of $240k but would likely be around $500k by year 3. Our $350k guy still practices like he is in the 1980's or his income would be higher.

    About reimbursement, it has been most recently hit by sequestration. Sequestration has cost me about $100k over the last 12 months. Oncologists are definitely making less than just 5 years ago. But, we didn't need to make as much as we were. ObamaCare hasn't helped any. Some uninsured people may have gained insurance (a horrible one though), but many people that had good insurance lost it. Overall, it's a overall negative from a reimbursement standpoint. My predictions is that an average, hard-working Oncologist in my region will likely make around $500k in the future. That's pretty dang good. But, we'll be at the mercy of whomever is paying our salary. The workload is busy, but not near as bad a Cards, Pulm, or Surgery. Hope that helps.
    bashwell and PD1 like this.
  30. bronx43

    bronx43 Word.

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    Do you have any information about the large cities in the South? I don't think anyone would be surprised about making $500k+ as heme/onc in a small Southern city.
  31. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran

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  32. llessac15

    llessac15 Junior Member

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    I don't have any info on major Southern cities. Just smaller ones. The biggest town that I had contact with was Jackson, MS. Your peak salary was around the ranges I quoted above, but it would take about 5-8 years to get there and you work twice as hard. Small towns are definitely the way to go. You can easily travel to the bigger cities on your off weekends. Where I practice, many of the physicians live in completely other states. One Cardiologist actually flies his personal plane home to Florida every weekend he's not on call.

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