HHS: Pharmacists can’t deny patients legally prescribed abortion drugs

[TranslationalRPh]

The Biden administration on Wednesday said retail pharmacies and pharmacists must provide patients with the medication they were legally prescribed even if it could be used in an abortion

HHS: Pharmacists can’t deny patients legally prescribed abortion drugs

The Biden administration on Wednesday said retail pharmacies and pharmacists must provide patients with the medication they were legally prescribed even if it could be used in an abortion. The guid…

thehill.com

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[WVUPharm2007]

But... What if the state law that will inevitably be passed in Arkanissippi or wherever threatens to put them in jail for the same thing?

 

[PharFromNormal]

People really need to read the announcement and not get tricked by headlines.

It can still be refused… just not categorically across the board for all people that could get pregnant. It still can be refused if someone is pregnant…

 

[Dred Pirate]

Just add it to the list of those "canadian" pharmacies that will mail you whatever you order - and hope it isn't arsenic.

 

[vinapharm]

Hm, if it is for other use, of course it will be dispensed…duh. And no customer will come straight to the pharmacy and said “ I need to fill this misoprostol to abort this baby”. A good rph needs to find the answer and decide to fill or not.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Hm, if it is for other use, of course it will be dispensed…duh. And no customer will come straight to the pharmacy and said “ I need to fill this misoprostol to abort this baby”. A good rph needs to find the answer and decide to fill or not.

Yeah, a good rph.

Pharmacist denies woman miscarriage medication over religious beliefs

The ACLU sent a letter of complaint asking the Meijer supermarket chain to change its policies.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Dred Pirate]

Hm, if it is for other use, of course it will be dispensed…duh. And no customer will come straight to the pharmacy and said “ I need to fill this misoprostol to abort this baby”. A good rph needs to find the answer and decide to fill or not.

A good Rph needs to let a woman make her own choice and not press their morals onto a vulnerable women because they feel they are all high and mighty. SMDH.

 

[PharmDminus]

A good Rph needs to let a woman make her own choice and not press their morals onto a vulnerable women because they feel they are all high and mighty. SMDH.

not if the “good pharmacist” considers the baby to be, you know, a person….SMDH. A supreme court of 9 took a vote. That supreme court was nominated by presidents who were nominated by the American people. There is half the country that disagrees with you on this. And in my experience, about half of pharmacists. You just wont find them on SDN.

 

[Dred Pirate]

not if the “good pharmacist” considers the baby to be, you know, a person….SMDH. A supreme court of 9 took a vote. That supreme court was nominated by presidents who were nominated by the American people. There is half the country that disagrees with you on this. And in my experience, about half of pharmacists. You just wont find them on SDN.

time for a fact check.
1. Last I saw something like 67% of Americans support legalized abortion in most cases. 90% support it in case of rape.
2. Presidents aren’t nominated by the American people
3. Only once on the last 30 years has the GOP (the party that supports anti choice) won the popular vote for president.
4. We all know the shenigans that go into Supreme Court nominations and games played by the party who held the White House.
5. A fetus is not a baby. Get over it. Until the age of viability, it isn’t a person.
6. These justices all said “rowe vs wade is settled” u see path then changed their votes.
7. Get off your high horse of moral superiority. It is ****ing old.
8. Half of pharmacists? I live in a reddish purple state. I work with 40 pharmacists. Exactly zero will admit they don’t support abortion rights.

 

[Dred Pirate]

time for a fact check.
1. Last I saw something like 67% of Americans support legalized abortion in most cases. 90% support it in case of rape.
2. Presidents aren’t nominated by the American people
3. Only once on the last 30 years has the GOP (the party that supports anti choice) won the popular vote for president.
4. We all know the shenigans that go into Supreme Court nominations and games played by the party who held the White House.
5. A fetus is not a baby. Get over it. Until the age of viability, it isn’t a person.
6. These justices all said “rowe vs wade is settled” u see path then changed their votes.
7. Get off your high horse of moral superiority. It is ****ing old.
8. Half of pharmacists? I live in a reddish purple state. I work with 40 pharmacists. Exactly zero will admit they don’t support abortion rights.

and another thing. In one thread SDN gets called a bunch of old white out of touch with younger people, and then a bunch of liberals. Well are you saying SDN happens to be that small group of old white liberals? I mean. That is definitely not the majority of this country.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

not if the “good pharmacist” considers the baby to be, you know, a person….SMDH. A supreme court of 9 took a vote. That supreme court was nominated by presidents who were nominated by the American people. There is half the country that disagrees with you on this. And in my experience, about half of pharmacists. You just wont find them on SDN.

I believe the discussion at hand was whether a pharmacist should (shall) fill these meds for non-abortion purposes. A pharmacist refusing to fill misoprostol for evacuation of a miscarriage isn’t exercising his constitutional right. He’s just being foolish.

 

[PharmDminus]

I believe the discussion at hand was whether a pharmacist should (shall) fill these meds for non-abortion purposes. A pharmacist refusing to fill misoprostol for evacuation of a miscarriage isn’t exercising his constitutional right. He’s just being foolish.

agreed

 

[PharmDminus]

and another thing. In one thread SDN gets called a bunch of old white out of touch with younger people, and then a bunch of liberals. Well are you saying SDN happens to be that small group of old white liberals? I mean. That is definitely not the majority of

and another thing. In one thread SDN gets called a bunch of old white out of touch with younger people, and then a bunch of liberals. Well are you saying SDN happens to be that small group of old white liberals? I mean. That is definitely not the majority of this country.

old white?? i said that??

 

[PharmDminus]

time for a fact check.
1. Last I saw something like 67% of Americans support legalized abortion in most cases. 90% support it in case of rape.
2. Presidents aren’t nominated by the American people
3. Only once on the last 30 years has the GOP (the party that supports anti choice) won the popular vote for president.
4. We all know the shenigans that go into Supreme Court nominations and games played by the party who held the White House.
5. A fetus is not a baby. Get over it. Until the age of viability, it isn’t a person.
6. These justices all said “rowe vs wade is settled” u see path then changed their votes.
7. Get off your high horse of moral superiority. It is ****ing old.
8. Half of pharmacists? I live in a reddish purple state. I work with 40 pharmacists. Exactly zero will admit they don’t support abortion rights.

as for #8 they know better than to talk about this at the workplace. It gets too heated. They do their talking with their votes.

 

[Dred Pirate]

old white?? i said that??

no. Others did. Just shows people see what they want to see is my point and make generalizations about an anonymous message board.

as for #8 they know better than to talk about this at the workplace. It gets too heated. They do their talking with their votes.

What about 1-7? And ya. I am sure one of them is some self righteous religious zealot but I am good friends with most and guarantee you their voting history coincides with pro choice.

 

[PharmDminus]

no. Others did. Just shows people see what they want to see is my point and make generalizations about an anymore message board.

What about 1-7? And ya. I am sure one of them is some self righteous religious zealot but I am good friends with most and guarantee you their voting history coincides with pro choice.

no. Others did. Just shows people see what they want to see is my point and make generalizations about an anymore message board.

What about 1-7? And ya. I am sure one of them is some self righteous religious zealot but I am good friends with most and guarantee you their voting history coincides with pro choice

no. Others did. Just shows people see what they want to see is my point and make generalizations about an anymore message board.

What about 1-7? And ya. I am sure one of them is some self righteous religious zealot but I am good friends with most and guarantee you their voting history coincides with pro choice.

as for 1-7, theres no point in us arguing. i dont think either of us are going to change each others minds. i get tired of the one-sidedness of some of these threads every now and again. gets old.

 

[Dred Pirate]

as for 1-7, theres no point in us arguing. i dont think either of us are going to change each others minds. i get tired of the one-sidedness of some of these threads every now and again. gets old.

Says they guy who can’t argue facts. I know I am not going to change your mid, but when you blatantly make false statements (or at best statements that bend the facts) I have to point out your falsehoods.

 

[PharmDminus]

Says they guy who can’t argue facts. I know I am not going to change your mid, but when you blatantly make false statements (or at best statements that bend the facts) I have to point out your falsehoods.

last statistics i saw was that 50% of pharmacists vote republican. You claim 1 out of 40 in your cohort. Why dont you provide the facts to support that pharmacists vote overwhelmingly democrat??

 

[Dred Pirate]

last statistics i saw was that 50% of pharmacists vote republican. You claim 1 out of 40 in your cohort. Why dont you provide the facts to support that pharmacists vote overwhelmingly democrat??

I meant of my work place. Yes. That is anecdotal. But you still spouted a complete lie that half of America is against abortion rights. That is 100% false..

Plus two other major issues with your argument. 1. Not all GOPers are anti choice based on the surveys that quote my 67-% and 90% numbers from earlier that refuse to ace

2. Īf 50% are democrats (not sure if this is true or not but google just told me it is 54%, that doesn’t mean all the rest are republicans. Surveys show independents actually have more numbers than either party individually.

 

[PharmDminus]

I meant of my work place. Yes. That is anecdotal. But you still spouted a complete lie that half of America is against abortion rights. That is 100% false..

Plus two other major issues with your argument. 1. Not all GOPers are anti choice based on the surveys that quote my 67-% and 90% numbers from earlier that refuse to ace

2. Īf 50% are democrats (not sure if this is true or not but google just told me it is 54%, that doesn’t mean all the rest are republicans. Surveys show independents actually have more numbers than either party individually.

i am not in disagreement that a slight majority of americans, and pharmacists for that matter, are pro choice. it is much closer to half than SDN paints

I meant of my work place. Yes. That is anecdotal. But you still spouted a complete lie that half of America is against abortion rights. That is 100% false..

Plus two other major issues with your argument. 1. Not all GOPers are anti choice based on the surveys that quote my 67-% and 90% numbers from earlier that refuse to ace

2. Īf 50% are democrats (not sure if this is true or not but google just told me it is 54%, that doesn’t mean all the rest are republicans. Surveys show independents actually have more numbers than either party individually.

the crux of the matter is statement #5 in your comment earlier. it all boils down to that. that is where the disagreement sits and will always sit.

 

[PharFromNormal]

Not sure what the back and forth is about here but I will try to bring us all back together with what I know we can all unify around…

No matter where you stand on this topic… we can all agree that provider status will save us and that’s where our energy must be refocused.

 

[Dred Pirate]

i am not in disagreement that a slight majority of americans, and pharmacists for that matter, are pro choice. it is much closer to half than SDN paints

the crux of the matter is statement #5 in your comment earlier. it all boils down to that. that is where the disagreement sits and will always sit.

A slight majority ? 2-1 for abortion in all cases and 9-1 for cases of rape. That isn’t slight

 

[PharmDminus]

since we are using cohorts, i suppose i could say a 6-3 vote in supreme court isnt slight either. listen, if such a high percentage of people are outraged about this, we will find out at midterm elections. Moving on…

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Not sure what the back and forth is about here but I will try to bring us all back together with what I know we can all unify around…

No matter where you stand on this topic… we can all agree that provider status will save us and that’s where our energy must be refocused.

What service do you think you can provide that the public would actually pay for? I’m sure there are a few boomers who still see out value, but their numbers are dwindling.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

since we are using cohorts, i suppose i could say a 6-3 vote in supreme court isnt slight either. listen, if such a high percentage of people are outraged about this, we will find out at midterm elections. Moving on…

It’s like organ donation. Most people don’t care much one way or the other (or are opposed) until they need one. Then it’s all “You should have to be an organ donor to get a driver’s license” or “non-organ donors shouldn’t be eligible to receive transplants”.

I suspect you haven’t needed an abortion…

 

[Dred Pirate]

since we are using cohorts, i suppose i could say a 6-3 vote in supreme court isnt slight either. listen, if such a high percentage of people are outraged about this, we will find out at midterm elections. Moving on…

Do you agree with the 67% and 90% numbers? Those aren’t cohorts. Those are the entire country. Move on….

 

[TranslationalRPh]

Here is a Link with some numbers. This one lists 61% support, but perhaps you are citing a different study. Of course, the number changes depending on the length of pregnancy.

 

[PharmDminus]

It’s like organ donation. Most people don’t care much one way or the other (or are opposed) until they need one. Then it’s all “You should have to be an organ donor to get a driver’s license” or “non-organ donors shouldn’t be eligible to receive transplants”.

I suspect you haven’t needed an abortion…

i suspect your definition of need is very different than mine.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

i suspect your definition of need is very different than mine.

I’m actually opposed to abortion. Guess what: I’m not going to have one. I suspect your need to tell other people what they can and can’t do is very different than mine.

 

[PharmDminus]

I’m actually opposed to abortion. Guess what: I’m not going to have one. I suspect your need to tell other people what they can and can’t do is very different than mine.

absolutely. i will tell people what they can and cant do when someone is being harmed.

 

[vinapharm]

A good Rph needs to let a woman make her own choice and not press their morals onto a vulnerable women because they feel they are all high and mighty. SMDH.

There is a lot to debateif it comes to conscience. I did not want to go into that. You have your own beliefs and I have mine. For me I just fill the med if I can confirm it is for miscarriage or for any purpose than abortion.
Ps: I don’t know what is smdh is so You can do it yourself. Peace

 

[Sparda29]

I'll be opposed to abortion the day that every kid/parent who can't afford is guaranteed free housing, childcare, food stamps, SNAP benefits, free K-college education.

Problem is, the people who want to stop abortion also don't wanna pay more taxes for a welfare state.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Here is a Link with some numbers. This one lists 61% support, but perhaps you are citing a different study. Of course, the number changes depending on the length of pregnancy.

I was pulling the number from my memory - but that is what happens when you day drink and then post - but depending on how you ask the question, you do get a variety of answers. But from this survey I found.

How Americans Really Feel About Abortion: The Sometimes Surprising Poll Results One Year After Roe Overturned

America may be consistently divided in identifying as “pro-life” or “pro-choice”—but polls show consistent support through the years for abortion rights, though not in all cases.

www.forbes.com

20% of people want abortion banned
87% support abortion when women's life is in danger.
61% of people support abortion without restriction if first trimester
68% of college grads support abortion rights

Where Americans Stand On Abortion, In 5 Charts

UPDATE (June 24, 2022, 12:31 p.m.): On Friday, the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, which established the constitutional right to abortion in 1973, with fi…

fivethirtyeight.com

Here 69% do not support overturning roe vs wade (this was the survey I was remembering in my original post)

so as @PharmDminus minus stated "half the country" does not disagree with me - a completely inaccurate statement.

But one thing you won't here me say a lot - I agree with @Sparda29 - he points out the massive hipocracy of the GOP - pro live vs pro birth - a very big distinction.

 

[vinapharm]

I'll be opposed to abortion the day that every kid/parent who can't afford is guaranteed free housing, childcare, food stamps, SNAP benefits, free K-college education.

Problem is, the people who want to stop abortion also don't wanna pay more taxes for a welfare state.

So abortion is illegal when we have enough supports you said?

 

[PharFromNormal]

What service do you think you can provide that the public would actually pay for? I’m sure there are a few boomers who still see out value, but their numbers are dwindling.

Tell me you’re new to the pharmacy board without telling me you’re new to the pharmacy board

 

[panicatthepharmacy]

not if the “good pharmacist” considers the baby to be, you know, a person….SMDH. A supreme court of 9 took a vote. That supreme court was nominated by presidents who were nominated by the American people. There is half the country that disagrees with you on this. And in my experience, about half of pharmacists. You just wont find them on SDN.

I'll fix that for you: 1/3 of that supreme court was nominated by the host of The Apprentice who never won the popular vote.

 

[aim-agm]

This is an interesting parallel to the recent HHS guidance that EMTALA preempts state criminal law and obliges providing in abortion if it is a medically indicated stabilizing treatment in an emergency, even if state law forbids it. While I agree strongly with the intended goals of these guidances i.e. ensuring access to proper treatment, they potentially upend major parts of practice suddenly (indeed, retroactively) while also creating enormous legal liability (civil and criminal) for pharmacists and doctors.

Alarmingly, these guidances do not appear to consider the implications beyond abortion rights. For example, it appears the following interaction would be considered a violation of patient's civil rights:
Pharmacist: "I'm not filling this script for Dexedrine"
Patient: "Why not?"
Pharmacist: "Because I just filled one for Adderall...which you promptly ground up and snorted off my counter."

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

Ps: I don’t know what is smdh is so You can do it yourself. Peace

Shake my d!ck head? Or damn/darn/dang

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

What service do you think you can provide that the public would actually pay for? I’m sure there are a few boomers who still see out value, but their numbers are dwindling.

Digital rectal exam

 

[d2rx]

Slightly off topic. I’ve been a RpH ~8 years now. Whenever I dispense Misoprostol, I always counsel the patient to make sure they’re aware what the drug does (did the prescriber tell you what this med does? And I ask pt to restate to me).

I have never had any push back until recently. One patient refused to confirm what she was taking the drug for. The other patient did confirm but sent her partner/boyfriend/husband in to tell me I made the patient cry by asking such intrusive questions. That it was non of my business, etc.

Anyone else getting pushbacks? Seems to be a fallout of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling.

PS: I’m male. Considering sending my female techs to ask patients questions from now on.

How do you counsel patients getting abortive drugs?

 

[PharmDminus]

Slightly off topic. I’ve been a RpH ~8 years now. Whenever I dispense Misoprostol, I always counsel the patient to make sure they’re aware what the drug does (did the prescriber tell you what this med does? And I ask pt to restate to me).

I have never had any push back until recently. One patient refused to confirm what she was taking the drug for. The other patient did confirm but sent her partner/boyfriend/husband in to tell me I made the patient cry by asking such intrusive questions. That it was non of my business, etc.

Anyone else getting pushbacks? Seems to be a fallout of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling.

PS: I’m male. Considering sending my female techs to ask patients questions from now on.

How do you counsel patients getting abortive drugs?

simple. i ask them if they would like me to go over the medication with them. if they say no, they have declined consultation and my legal obligations have been met. I do the same with viagra consults.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Slightly off topic. I’ve been a RpH ~8 years now. Whenever I dispense Misoprostol, I always counsel the patient to make sure they’re aware what the drug does (did the prescriber tell you what this med does? And I ask pt to restate to me).

I have never had any push back until recently. One patient refused to confirm what she was taking the drug for. The other patient did confirm but sent her partner/boyfriend/husband in to tell me I made the patient cry by asking such intrusive questions. That it was non of my business, etc.

Anyone else getting pushbacks? Seems to be a fallout of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling.

PS: I’m male. Considering sending my female techs to ask patients questions from now on.

How do you counsel patients getting abortive drugs?

I'm cringing a little. My pharmacy school was really into open ended questions. Those were cringey. You're at another level.

 

[DagS132]

...Whenever I dispense Misoprostol, I always counsel the patient to make sure they’re aware what the drug does (did the prescriber tell you what this med does? And I ask pt to restate to me...

lmao, i cant believe you didnt get pushback till now doing this

 

[Dred Pirate]

Digital rectal exam

winner winner chicken dinner

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Digital rectal exam

So that’s true, a certain subset of the population would pay you for that. But it’s not a skill most of us can perform better than non-pharmacists.

 

[PikminOC]

The Biden administration on Wednesday said retail pharmacies and pharmacists must provide patients with the medication they were legally prescribed even if it could be used in an abortion

HHS: Pharmacists can’t deny patients legally prescribed abortion drugs

The Biden administration on Wednesday said retail pharmacies and pharmacists must provide patients with the medication they were legally prescribed even if it could be used in an abortion. The guid…

thehill.com

Now do ivermectin

 

[PikminOC]

I'll be opposed to abortion the day that every kid/parent who can't afford is guaranteed free housing, childcare, food stamps, SNAP benefits, free K-college education.

Problem is, the people who want to stop abortion also don't wanna pay more taxes for a welfare state.

Yes the point is to be responsible. Already too many benefits are given to single moms

 

[Dred Pirate]

Now do ivermectin

have to get to vet for your worms

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Now do ivermectin

I wasn't aware pharmacies were refusing to fill that

 

[Dred Pirate]

I wasn't aware pharmacies were refusing to fill that

please lets not start this and beat a dead horse