High MCAT, Felony conviction, med school?

[Johnny Blaze]

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[LuluLovesMe]

Your gpa coupled with your conviction will make it really difficult for you. I thought a 516 was a low 35

 

[doc05]

with a felony conviction, a low gpa, expulsion from college, it ain't gonna happen. find another career.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Did not see the expulsion too. Yeah not happening unless you do a smp and also wait 3-4 years to apply and show you've matured.

 

[ndafife]

If this had been more than a few years ago and the rest of your app was stellar yeah. It may take a few years off working (like until it's expunged) to get in.

The expulsion is a huge mark even then, I believe you'll need a dean's note for that.

It's easy to say you've grown and things have changed, but a year is hardly enough time to show that. Take a few years off, work towards a masters, work in a lab, volunteer with DARE and other antidrug programs.

 

[Lawpy]

with a felony conviction, a low gpa, expulsion from college, it ain't gonna happen. find another career.

Agreed. Sorry OP, your app is on fire (in a really bad way). Your chances in medical school are zero, unless you take a lot of time off and recover (I'm talking >5 years).

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Agreed. Sorry OP, your app is on fire (in a really bad way). Your chances in medical school are zero, unless you take a lot of time off and recover (I'm talking >5 years).

That is tough to hear. I am still hopeful. Does anyone with knowledge of the admissions process have input? Or anyone in the admissions department?

 

[Lawpy]

That is tough to hear. I am still hopeful. Does anyone with knowledge of the admissions process have input? Or anyone in the admissions department?

@Goro @Catalystik @LizzyM @gyngyn @mimelim can provide additional input. Hopefully i'm wrong and it's not that bad.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

@Goro @Catalystik @LizzyM @gyngyn @mimelim can provide additional input. Hopefully i'm wrong and it's not that bad.

I know it is truly horrible, a felony as well as well as low academic performance. I hope the fact that it is expungable, as well as my high mcat score, will show schools that I DO have potential as a student

 

[Lawpy]

I know it is truly horrible, a felony as well as well as low academic performance. I hope the fact that it is expungable, as well as my high mcat score, will show schools that I DO have potential as a student

What's concerning is the expulsion. I am fairly libertarian and i don't think marijuana is a big deal (alcohol was banned in the 1920s only for it to be repealed, which created an ugly stain in the Constitution). Low GPA can be compensated by taking advantage if DO retake policy.

But expulsion? That is strongly condemning and it is the main thing holding you back.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I know it is truly horrible, a felony as well as well as low academic performance. I hope the fact that it is expungable, as well as my high mcat score, will show schools that I DO have potential as a student

I think the main problem is from the perspective of an adcom, there are plenty of people with your MCAT score, why take the risk on someone who has been expelled before and has a felony when there are many more applicants with clean records and similar stats? I assume this is true for DO schools as well.

I am just guessing though. I'm an applicant as well.

 

[GrapesofRath]

It is possible an old drug felony might be overlooked by some med school if there has been a serious turnaround since then. Possible, not probable by any means.

An expulsion however is much harder to overlook. Time for Plan B.

 

[Goro]

The timing of these events are a little murky to me. So your marijuana trouble all occurred before your turn around???

 

[Johnny Blaze]

What's concerning is the expulsion. I am fairly libertarian and i don't think marijuana is a big deal (alcohol was banned in the 1920s only for it to be repealed, which created an ugly stain in the Constitution). Low GPA can be compensated by taking advantage if DO retake policy.

But expulsion? That is strongly condemning and it is the main thing holding you back.

I should correct that I was 'Dismissed' from my school, allowed to re-enter after 2 years. They have a no tolerance policy for my type of charges. I decided to not wait that long, and just transferred schools. I guess this is not synonymous with expulsion?

 

[Johnny Blaze]

The timing of these events are a little murky to me. So your marijuana trouble all occurred before your turn around???

I got into all my trouble March 2014. Dismissed from my school, transferred to a private 4 year school in summer 2014. Took mcat January 2015. I just graduated in May 2015.

 

[nRomaleos]

What's concerning is the expulsion. I am fairly libertarian and i don't think marijuana is a big deal (alcohol was banned in the 1920s only for it to be repealed, which created an ugly stain in the Constitution). Low GPA can be compensated by taking advantage if DO retake policy.

But expulsion? That is strongly condemning and it is the main thing holding you back.

I share your personal beliefs. But it isn't far-fetched to believe that a school in a conservative state would expel someone for intention to distribute.

 

[Goro]

I think that you are going to need several years of exemplary behavior, preferably in positions of responsibility (like being a teacher or a counselor) to show that the you of now is not the you of then. Always have a Plan B.

As mentioned above, your biggest problem is that even with the turn around, there are literally thousands of other applicants who didn't get into trouble with the law.

The key is getting the attention of Adcom members who believe in redemption.

I got into all my trouble March 2014. Dismissed from my school, transferred to a private 4 year school in summer 2014. Took mcat January 2015. I just graduated in May 2015.

 

[doc05]

encouraging the OP to chase a pipe dream is cruel. please stop.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

encouraging the OP to chase a pipe dream is cruel. please stop.

Truly it is a pipe dream, I have been aware of this. What I am somewhat relieved to see, is that the chance is still there. Since I have taken the MCAT, I may just try my best in the application process this cycle.

 

[FutureOncologist]

In my n=1, I would go for another (healthcare) career. I'm not sure about what PA schools stand on this or if they are just as strict as MD schools, but honestly, that's what I'd shoot for. If PA schools are less (meaning WAY LESS) strenuous on this kind of behavior, then you'd be doing medical work in far less time than shooting for something almost hopeless as getting your MD.

If MD/DO is the only thing you want, then I would honestly take @Goro's advice and take A LOT of time (key word: a lot) to show you have truly changed. Do this by doing Teach For America, then start teaching after that. Or become a guidance counselor (paid or volunteer) for a few years, retake the MCAT, retake the classes that killed your GPA, and shoot for DO. DO schools show more altruism (generally) and may take your side on how you are trying to redeem yourself.

All the best OP. We all make dumb mistakes when we were younger but some stuff is just not acceptable.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

In my n=1, I would go for another (healthcare) career. I'm not sure about what PA schools stand on this or if they are just as strict as MD schools, but honestly, that's what I'd shoot for. If PA schools are less (meaning WAY LESS) strenuous on this kind of behavior, then you'd be doing medical work in far less time than shooting for something almost hopeless as getting your MD.

If MD/DO is the only thing you want, then I would honestly take @Goro's advice and take A LOT of time (key word: a lot) to show you have truly changed. Do this by doing Teach For America, then start teaching after that. Or become a guidance counselor (paid or volunteer) for a few years, retake the MCAT, retake the classes that killed your GPA, and shoot for DO. DO schools show more altruism (generally) and may take your side on how you are trying to redeem yourself.

All the best OP. We all make dumb mistakes when we were younger but some stuff is just not acceptable.

Thank you and @Goro for your words, I will consider all you've said. At least I've gotten all this behind me at age 21, and not 31.

 

[22031 Alum]

Truly it is a pipe dream, I have been aware of this. What I am somewhat relieved to see, is that the chance is still there. Since I have taken the MCAT, I may just try my best in the application process this cycle.

You are only picking out what you want to hear. Nobody is advising you to apply this cycle. You need to have years of exemplary behavior to show you have changed. Applying this cycle will only serve to make you a reapplicant later on, making your chances even worse than they already are. Don't do it.

 

[gyngyn]

Truly it is a pipe dream, I have been aware of this. What I am somewhat relieved to see, is that the chance is still there. Since I have taken the MCAT, I may just try my best in the application process this cycle.

Your application is toast.

 

[Catalystik]

I may just try my best in the application process this cycle.

You would just be making a nondeductible donation to AMCAS, AACOMAS, and to Secondary fee funds. Don't.

 

[starstruck20]

What's the chances of OP ever getting in?

 

[doc05]

Truly it is a pipe dream, I have been aware of this. What I am somewhat relieved to see, is that the chance is still there. Since I have taken the MCAT, I may just try my best in the application process this cycle.

you have better chance of winning the Powerball.

 

[doc05]

What's the chances of OP ever getting in?

zero

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

Maybe join the military?

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Thank you and @Goro for your words, I will consider all you've said.

Your application is toast.

I am worried that my MCAT score will be invalid after a few years

 

[xffan624]

Maybe join the military?

A felony conviction, even if it is expungable eventually, might interfere with those plans in the short term.

 

[gyngyn]

I am worried that my MCAT score will be invalid after a few years

That is correct.

 

[Dr. Death]

I got into all my trouble March 2014. Dismissed from my school, transferred to a private 4 year school in summer 2014. Took mcat January 2015. I just graduated in May 2015.

I smell something fishy. If you took the MCAT January of 2015 you didn't get a 516. The new MCAT started in April.

 

[Vespasian]

In my n=1, I would go for another (healthcare) career. I'm not sure about what PA schools stand on this or if they are just as strict as MD schools, but honestly, that's what I'd shoot for. If PA schools are less (meaning WAY LESS) strenuous on this kind of behavior, then you'd be doing medical work in far less time than shooting for something almost hopeless as getting your MD.

Not sure OP's GPA is competitive enough for PA school. For 2013 CASPA reports an average matriculant cGPA of 3.52, sGPA of 3.46 and mean healthcare experience of ~5,500 hours. PA programs typically require criminal background checks and then, if OP were accepted, he'd have to worry about licensure with a felony. Don't think PA school is in OP's future either unfortunately.

 

[unnumzaan]

Thank you and @Goro for your words, I will consider all you've said. At least I've gotten all this behind me at age 21, and not 31.

This is a good attitude to have, so good on you. Now you need to act on that and take the recommended years of redemption to even have a shot at all this.

Both your GPAs are below the 10th percentile for every MD school and still below average for most DO schools. You have a dismissal from college and a convicted felony. Any one of those three things will sink your application on its own. I do believe that there is a chance for redemption if you work for it, but the cornerstone of that is time + commitment. You cannot possibly have demonstrated that already in the year and a half since the incident.

I am worried that my MCAT score will be invalid after a few years

You should have made this thread before studying for the MCAT. If you do end up retaking it years down the road, your experience this first time will not be wasted. The following may not be exactly comforting, but your 516 is a good score, but by no means extraordinary. Do not cling onto it like a unicorn that will make up for anything. You probably want to aim for an even higher score when/if you retake.

 

[nwts]

I am worried that my MCAT score will be invalid after a few years

It will be invalid. However, as the wise faculty members on this forum have told you, there really isn't a chance that you will get in this cycle. Something like this on your record is a huge deal, and the only hope you have for getting accepted is to take a lot of time (years) to prove that you have grown as a person. You simply will not be accepted if you apply this cycle. You really shouldn't be using the fact that your MCAT score will become invalid as a criterion for deciding whether or not to apply this cycle because you are not going to get accepted, so why does it matter if you are able to use it? If you apply just because you do not want to "waste" your MCAT score, all you will end up doing is wasting a bunch of time spent working on the application and wasting a bunch of money spent on application fees. Your record renders your MCAT score "wasted," regardless of whether or not you apply this cycle.

I do not say any of these things to be rude. I really do wish you the best. I just want to try to stop you from wasting a bunch of time and money on an application that has no real chance of success.

 

[biochem149]

I know someone with a higher MCAT, 3.9+ gpa and lesser of a criminal offense and has had no luck after two cycles. It's sucks because he is a great person but there are so many applicants with the same stats or better.....well you get the picture.

 

[22031 Alum]

I am worried that my MCAT score will be invalid after a few years

That is the least of your worries. You just have to accept that you're going to have to retake it, sorry. You already have a low chance of acceptance, you want to apply with the strongest app possible the first time. As @Goro likes to say, an inability to delay gratification isn't a trait you want to demonstrate.

 

[dermie1985]

(Let me preface this with the fact that I think recreational marijuana use should be legal in the United States. If tobacco and alcohol use are legal --- which are way more terrible drugs than marijuana --- there really is no justification for why marijuana shouldn't be as well. We've wasted way too many prison dollars and people's lives ruined over possessing or selling a drug that is now legal in some states and legal in other countries. It's hypocrisy and infuriates me.)

I would move on from this and find another career. It sucks, but you need to be realistic. Could still be health-care related (i.e. nurse, PA, etc.) if those fields are more forgiving. You could wait 5 years and try applying then once things have settled down.... but by that point you'll likely be on another path altogether. And, I personally wouldn't waste 5 years pursuing something that may frankly be unattainable. Not becoming a physician isn't the end of the world. I'm sure you'll find another career that you'll be happy with. Having gone through medical school and started residency, I can tell you that (while medicine is truly a unique and great career)...there are many other great things you can do with your life that don't require the sacrifices, long-hours, and delayed gratification of a career in medicine. I like my career, but know I could be happy being a PA, a researcher, even a nurse. You'll find your place.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

That is the least of your worries. You just have to accept that you're going to have to retake it, sorry. You already have a low chance of acceptance, you want to apply with the strongest app possible the first time. As @Goro likes to say, an inability to delay gratification isn't a trait you want to demonstrate.

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[Axes]

.

 

[Cytarabine]

As has already pretty much been said, I would consider someone with that history, but only with several years of consistent exemplary behavior in front of it, and it would probably still take reaching out and establishing personal relationships with adcoms. If i didn't have someone looking out for my application, I'd be concerned it would be screened without being looked at pretty much everywhere. Big red flags when there are more than enough qualified applicants without them

 

[mimelim]

So.... about 1 year ago I got into trouble with marijuana in college. Was convicted of a class 4 expungable felony, possession with intent to distribute (10-30 grams). I was given 2 years probation for first offenders, and allowed dismissal of my charges without a conviction if I complete the probation. Do I have ANY chance in the application process with my high MCAT score? I know a felony would bar me from getting licensed in most states. I am eligible to have this expunged in 6 years. Which would be in time for the completion of my 4 years in med school, and 3+ year residency program.

I know this is a very serious black mark, and my past academic performance was not stellar either. I was not incarcerated, given 2 years probation. Expelled from my large state school of 3.5 years, transferred to a private catholic school and just graduated. I decided that sitting around moping about things would not help at all. I got my ass into gear, took the 2015 MCAT, and recently got my results. Studied my ass off. Got a 516 composite which is about a 36 for pre-2015 mcat. Here are my other stats:

GPA 2.9 (3.5 yrs). Basically I was a huge burnout in my state school, smoked pot all day and did just enough to get by.
GPA 3.8 (1 .5 yrs). Moved home and completely turned things around.
sGPA 3.1
516 MCAT (~36)
Extensive volunteer work at hospital. ER department, invasive vascular services, over 600 hours
Extensive shadowing of a gastroenterologist and dermatologist, about 400 hours
Have three stellar recommendations vouching for my character

I know I can write quite a good personal statement about my motives for medical school as well as why I was convicted of a felony, what I've learned, how I have changed. Granted that not much time has passed since I was convicted, but I have completely turned things around and I hope the adcom can see this with my high mcat score. I plan to only apply widely, to lower tier schools. I am open to DO as well. Any input is appreciated.

@Goro @Catalystik @LizzyM @gyngyn @mimelim can provide additional input. Hopefully i'm wrong and it's not that bad.

I know it is truly horrible, a felony as well as well as low academic performance. I hope the fact that it is expungable, as well as my high mcat score, will show schools that I DO have potential as a student

I should correct that I was 'Dismissed' from my school, allowed to re-enter after 2 years. They have a no tolerance policy for my type of charges. I decided to not wait that long, and just transferred schools. I guess this is not synonymous with expulsion?

I am worried that my MCAT score will be invalid after a few years

A few things to add.
#1 Just because something can be expunged does not mean that it will.
#2 Just because something is expunged does not mean that it disappears.
#3 Just because something disappears legally, does not mean that you won't have to report it to residencies, boards, future employers. You may or may not depending on how they ask things and while you won't be legally obligated to tell them, lying is only opening yourself up for huge setbacks.
#4 You need a serious re-evaluation of your application. The number of applications with a 3.1 GPA conviction, strong MCAT, exceptional volunteering, shadowing, LOR, PS etc are extremely small each season.
#5 You sound like a very hopeful person. This is a good thing overall in life. However, you need to be realistic and not everything is going to break your way in the next 5 years.

#6 As others have said, applying this cycle is a complete waste of time. If you had asked before taking your MCAT, the answer would have been the same and you would have been advised not to bother taking it.
#7 If (and that is a massive one) you 'must' be a physician, you should target 4+ years from now with a new MCAT. Most would likely advise you to take an additional 2+ semesters of coursework. And by far the most important, you will need to be productive the next several years. If you skip everything else in my post, this is by far what you should focus on: You have to make schools want you. You need to demonstrate that you are a prize to be had in that application cycle. Yes, many schools will still pass on you because of your past, but there will be some that assuming you look like a good student will be willing to take on the 'risk' because of your upside. Service to community and others is the best cornerstone. It isn't about hours. It is about demonstrating that you have moved beyond your past and are going to be productive in whatever you do.

 

[Goro]

One more option for redemption: join the military...consider the Nat Guard.

In my n=1, I would go for another (healthcare) career. I'm not sure about what PA schools stand on this or if they are just as strict as MD schools, but honestly, that's what I'd shoot for. If PA schools are less (meaning WAY LESS) strenuous on this kind of behavior, then you'd be doing medical work in far less time than shooting for something almost hopeless as getting your MD.

If MD/DO is the only thing you want, then I would honestly take @Goro's advice and take A LOT of time (key word: a lot) to show you have truly changed. Do this by doing Teach For America, then start teaching after that. Or become a guidance counselor (paid or volunteer) for a few years, retake the MCAT, retake the classes that killed your GPA, and shoot for DO. DO schools show more altruism (generally) and may take your side on how you are trying to redeem yourself.

All the best OP. We all make dumb mistakes when we were younger but some stuff is just not acceptable.

 

[302356]

I'm only an applicant for the first time so what do I know but don't lose hope! I know someone from my college, a top 20 undergraduate college, who got in trouble for hazing at my university. He got in trouble for it (although he wasn't expelled, I think he was suspended for a semester). Anyway, he came back, worked really hard, did AmeriCorps, and then applied like three years later and got into his state medical school. It is still possible but please don't apply this cycle. Apps and fees are not a joke, and you wouldn't even be considered. Do something to show you've changed, speak to the dean of students at your former college, and see what you can do. But by all means your MCAT score should be your last concern.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Not sure OP's GPA is competitive enough for PA school. For 2013 CASPA reports an average matriculant cGPA of 3.52, sGPA of 3.46 and mean healthcare experience of ~5,500 hours. PA programs typically require criminal background checks and then, if OP were accepted, he'd have to worry about licensure with a felony. Don't think PA school is in OP's future either unfortunately.

Thank you for the clarification! I honestly thought only ~1 - 2,000 hours in HCE could land you in competitive schools to become licensed. Clearly I was way off...

 

[doc05]

lets think about this:

odds of getting in now? zero
in 1 year? zero
in 5 years, with lots of effort, maybe an SMP, and various exceptional ECs: maybe 5%

Do you really want to dedicate the next 5 (or more) years of your life just to have slim chance at a med school acceptance?? it's a fools errand. don't waste any more of your own time. find another career. please.

 

[ciestar]

Well..even military agencies do background checks. There's no guarantee with that either.

Also, even if your charge is expunged, it will show up on all federal records for the rest of your life....consider that too. (My sister tried to enlist in the army, did a background check and they found a drug possession charge as a teenager and told her they wouldn't accept her into the military because they have a no tolerance policy for it..)

 

[slow twitch]

**** it OP just go for it. The worst thing that could happen is adcoms say no and you waste several thousand dollars but at least you're not left wondering "what if".

 

[Cytarabine]

**** it OP just go for it. The worst thing that could happen is adcoms say no and you waste several thousand dollars but at least you're not left wondering "what if".

If OP has several thousands dollars to throw to the wind, sure.

 

[Oh_Gee]

I'm only an applicant for the first time so what do I know but don't lose hope! I know someone from my college, a top 20 undergraduate college, who got in trouble for hazing at my university. He got in trouble for it (although he wasn't expelled, I think he was suspended for a semester). Anyway, he came back, worked really hard, did AmeriCorps, and then applied like three years later and got into his state medical school. It is still possible but please don't apply this cycle. Apps and fees are not a joke, and you wouldn't even be considered. Do something to show you've changed, speak to the dean of students at your former college, and see what you can do. But by all means your MCAT score should be your last concern.

hazing a criminal charge or a school thing?