Hours worked per week

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Shireiqiang

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There is a lot of talk about flexible schedules for podiatrists. Is this a myth or is there some truth to it? I am curious to know how many hours per week you practicing podiatrists work? Also if you don't mind answering, are you working for yourself or for a group practice?

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I am a Partner in a three person group. I work 17 to 20 hours per week by choice and by careful planning. I see patients in the office Tuesday morning, all day Wednesday, all day Thursday, and I do surgery on Friday mornings.

Neither one of my Partners work five days a week. We are of like mind and have set up our business to accommodate this type of work schedule.
 
In all respect, that seems like it isn't very much time spent at work. Is the short hours completely personal choice or are there other factors like patient numbers? Is this common for other podiatrists in your city? Thanks.
 
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In all respect, that seems like it isn't very much time spent at work. Is the short hours completely personal choice or are there other factors like patient numbers? Is this common for other podiatrists in your city? Thanks.

Did you even read the post? NatCh it's his own choice and careful planning to work that amount. He said his partners are like minded.

Reading skills will be imperative for pod school, better work on that.
 
Why only 17 to 20 hours? Do you do something else on the side, or just decided you want more personal time?
 
Why only 17 to 20 hours? Do you do something else on the side, or just decided you want more personal time?
It's by choice and for more personal time. He stated that. I've met ER or anesthesia docs who do the same... only 2-3days per week despite being young guys. They use medicine as a vehicle to support their hobbies. In the end, you can't put a price on your fitness, happiness, and family time.

I'd guess (contact APMA or ACFAS for surveys if you want hard numbers) that the average DPM probably works roughly the following:
M-Th 8-5p, Fri 8-1p... add infrequent ER call or occasional lunch time consults depending on preference.

Like ENT, OB, optho, dentistry, etc, podiatry's a specialty where many docs are in private practice, and that lets you work as much or as little as you want/need to in order to get the income you want/need. There are DPM residency directors or private practice hustlers who probably work 60-80+ hrs per week. There are also many DPMs who work around 20hrs/wk because they are semi-retired or just chose lower income in exchange for more family/lifestyle time. Hours worked, like anything else, is a bell curve, but the mean/median for podiatry is almost certainly lower than most MD/DO specialties on average.
 
Why only 17 to 20 hours? Do you do something else on the side, or just decided you want more personal time?

I work part-time for several reasons, but mostly because I work-to-live rather than live-to-work. In my spare time I like to mountain bike and go snowboarding amongst other things. My wife also works half-time and we enjoy biking and traveling together. I am also a father of two little girls and do not want to miss their childhood by being at the office all the time.

I live in an area that is famous for its outdoor recreational activities. It is a big sports and leisure community, and as such attracts an unusual number of physicians. Whereas a community this size would normally sustain three podiatrists, we have nine with another on the way. In addition, we have four foot and ankle orthopedic surgeons, so physician saturation is a secondary but real reason for being part-time. I do not believe that any of the podiatrists in this city have full-time hours here.

Working 17 to 20 hours is enough to sustain my practice and to pay the bills. I may work half as many hours as the next guy but my overhead expenses are also half as much and therefore my income remains about average for the state of Oregon.

If you look at the fixed expenses of most practices you'll find that rent and payroll are the two most expensive items, or at least they are near the top of the list.

My two partners and I rotate through an office designed for no more than two doctors at the time, which means we spend less on office space.

By having two of us rotate through the office on any given day means that we can function with minimal support staff. We have a receptionist, a biller, and one medical assistant between the three of us. The way that we have divided up expenses means that I am paying only for two thirds of a single full-time employee.

A solo practitioner would have to generate enough money to cover the payroll of those three employees on his own. If you figure that each employee's wages plus benefits equals approximately $30,000 per year, then that means a solo practitioner would need to generate at least $70,000 per year more than I do in order to cover payroll. Even if a solo provider had only one employee who did everything, he or she would still be paying more for payroll than I am.

Keeping my hours under twenty per week also means that I qualify for part-time malpractice insurance fees. Mine costs 50% of what it would cost a full-time practitioner.

We have several other things that we do to keep our overhead expenses down but I don't want to list them all here. Having low overhead expenses helps us out in this down economy because it takes longer for us to feel any dip in production.

One of my Attendings when I was in Residency told me, "It's not just what you make, but also what you don't spend."
 
this, as you said, is in regards to private practice right? BUT what if you get offered a job with a multi practice or an ortho group? Can you "be your own boss" with hours there too...or do they not have any flexibility other than that typical 2 weeks paid vacation and all that?

It depends upon the practice. If you take a job working for someone, you probably will not have a whole lot of say in what you do. Typically I believe that if you are a Partner you have lots of say in what you do, but you also more directly feel the financial implication of everything you do. Some might permit partial hours and some might not. Some might permit part-time hours but their overhead expenses are so high that to work anything less than full time would mean a drastic reduction in income, which would effectively eliminate the possibility of part-time.

Remember, with a very large practice you may have to add layers of management in order to make it work. At some point if the group is large enough it will probably need a CEO and CFO and maybe even a COO. Each one of those management positions command six figures. Add to that numerous support staff and also more real estate. Guess who gets to pay for all that? Of course if you have very smart business people at the helm they will make their salary worthwhile, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

If you want the most possible control over your work situation then be a solo practitioner. If you do not want to have to handle the business affairs and would rather just go to work then go home, then join a large group.
 
NatCH, didn't you also once say that your wife brought home a couple of hundred thousand dollars as a partner in a VERY busy family practice!!!!!????

The answer to the original question is that you make a personal decision to work as many or as few hours as you choose. Naturally, income can also be directly related to the amount of hours you work, IF that is important to you.

Early on in my career I worked pretty long hours. When my children were young, I made a vow that their development was much more important than anything else. I NEVER missed one sporting event or school event for either one of my kids. Both of my kids (a daughter and son) were highly competitive athletes in their respective sports and traveled all over the country and sometimes out of the U.S.A. for their sports. At times they competed for two teams in the same season, and I always made every sporting event.

Now that my kids are in college and I'm in a large group practice, I've gotten busier again. Fortunately, our practice has gotten extremely busy and we don't have enough docs to see all the patients. We probably need about 2-3 more doctors in our practice to fill the load.

So presently, ALL our doctors are working every day of the week, at least 1-2 nights a week AND on Saturday til about noon. So, I'm putting in a LOT of hours to accommodate patients.

It's kind of a bitter-sweet problem. It's great that we're that busy, but I'm working more hours than I'd like to at this time. On the other hand, we have a lot of DPM's in our area that would love to be 1/4 as busy, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

But I really can't wait until we hire a few more docs so some of us can cut back at least a few hours. Frankly, I'm jealous of NatCH. Sometimes I put in 17-20 hours in 1.5-2 days!!!
 
She went part time recently. Last year she worked harder than ever and her work week crept up to 60 hours. She was burning out and missing her daughters, so enough was enough. This is much better this way.
 
Thanks everyone, this is really exciting to know that it is possible to make a good living, but also have time to be there for the important things. Natch, I like your style, I think I am going to steal the work-to-live rather than live-to-work idea. Nice.
 
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I live in an area that is famous for its outdoor recreational activities. It is a big sports and leisure community, and as such attracts an unusual number of physicians. Whereas a community this size would normally sustain three podiatrists, we have nine with another on the way. In addition, we have four foot and ankle orthopedic surgeons, so physician saturation is a secondary but real reason for being part-time. I do not believe that any of the podiatrists in this city have full-time hours here.

can i ask where you work? so i know not to come set up shop there :) but really, i am curious. if you dont want to identify the city or state, at least the region... thanks
 
can i ask where you work? so i know not to come set up shop there :) but really, i am curious. if you dont want to identify the city or state, at least the region... thanks
Well, I suppose I could whisper it to you (if you promise not to tell anyone!).

sdn-1.jpg
 
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NatCH,

Can you get a little more specific, I wanted to perform a google earth on your backyard:laugh:
 
i am not that familiar with some of the computer programs out there, but how ever much time it took you to get the screen grab was time well spent. that has been the highlight of my week so far
 
i am not that familiar with some of the computer programs out there, but how ever much time it took you to get the screen grab was time well spent. that has been the highlight of my week so far
All in good fun. No malice intended.
 
i am not that familiar with some of the computer programs out there, but how ever much time it took you to get the screen grab was time well spent. that has been the highlight of my week so far

I'm sure he spent the better part of his day off making that image.
 
this, as you said, is in regards to private practice right?...
The hours I posted were probably for DPMs overall... most are in private practice, not all. Like I said, younger guys, guys in academic settings, etc might work a lot. Semi-retired or family/personal time fans might work less. It all averages out. There are APMA or ACFAS surveys of their members if you want exact stats.

...BUT what if you get offered a job with a multi practice or an ortho group? Can you "be your own boss" with hours there too...or do they not have any flexibility other than that typical 2 weeks paid vacation and all that?
Well, I'm obviously still in training, but common sense and the prac mgmt info I've come across would tell me that most groups and hospitals that offer a physician full benefits for a full time employee want just that: a full time employee. Health insurance, advertising, licensing, hosp fees, etc cost the same for somebody working 15hrs per week or 65hrs/wk. If you won't work full time (or the amount demanded by the position), then many employers may prefer to find somebody who will.

As for being a partner, if you have the buy $ in hand to purchase significant partnership in an ortho or multispec group, you are doing pretty darn well (to the point where you might be just fine staying as an associate). Many groups don't even offer buy-in, and ones that do will be asking a pretty huge figure which few associates could manage. As for hospitals, to my understanding, they now have serious legal restrictions on offering "buy-in" for doctors. In the past, they might have offered stock options, productivity bonus, etc because that makes the doc inclined to admit/refer to that facility, but that turns into a "referral for profit" situation, which is illegal in many cases.
 
-15-20 hrs/week, 4 half days, 10-12 pts max/day
-independent contractor at multiple multi-specialty clinics
-no private practice, no employees, no headaches
-usually by home by 3pm to watch Oprah

My wife thinks I'm plain lazy...but whatever.
 
Podmeister,

No offense, because I'm not judging you. You have made your own choice/decision regarding hours and lifestyle. I'm simply wondering how you pay your bills!!!

I notice you live in L.A., which certainly has a high cost of living. Seeing 40-50 patients weekly wouldn't generate enough income for most docs to pay the bills, though I don't know your lifestyle, etc.

Yesterday I saw 21 patients by 11:30 am!!!! So I'm actually envious of you, though I can't complain because at the present time our practice is so busy we're really in need of at least 2 more docs in addition to our current large group of over a dozen. It's not that we really want to work the hours we do or see the amount of patients we do, it's simply that the need for care is there and the patients need to be seen.

I'd actually rather slow down my pace because I believe that I can be more productive when I have more time to spend with a patient.

Anyway, I respect the choice you have made, it's simply a matter of economics that I can't figure out how you can survive financially seeing that number of patients.

But maybe that's because I have two kids in college at a total cost of $100,000 per year!!
 
-15-20 hrs/week, 4 half days, 10-12 pts max/day
-independent contractor at multiple multi-specialty clinics
-no private practice, no employees, no headaches
-usually by home by 3pm to watch Oprah

My wife thinks I'm plain lazy...but whatever.
...I can't figure out how you can survive financially...
I can't figure out how a guy gets home from work and watches Oprah. :confused:
 
I can't figure out WHY a guy gets home from work and would want to watch Oprah:confused:
 
I can't figure out WHY a guy gets home from work and would want to watch Oprah:confused:

Because my wife has the remote control and any attempt to switch channels is asking for a death wish...or worse:)

As far as paying for my bills, I'm doing just fine ...along with other colleagues.

I collect what I bill and have very low clinic overhead 30%.
I also spend 3-4 hrs/wk with home visits.
Like Natch, I also qualify for the malpractice discount.

I will have to work more hours once kids come into the equation.
 
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Podmeister,

I don't know your age, but I can tell you that when the kids come along, working more hours will be a tough transition. I can tell you from experience that I had voluntarily cut back my hours and was taking off a few afternoons a week, and was ending my Friday's early following my surgical cases.

Due to a change in practice scheduling and a re-arrangement of offices, etc., I suddenly found myself extremely busy, necessitating my working very long hours, every day of the week and even coming in on Saturday mornings to accommodate our patient load.

So if you anticipate that in the not-so-near future you may have the need to work more hours to keep up with financial needs, PLEASE don't take it "too" easy right now because I can assure you that it's very easy to get used to that schedule and when you do begin working more/longer hours, it makes that transition significantly more difficult. Trust me.....been there, done that!
 
Podmeister,

I don't know your age, but I can tell you that when the kids come along, working more hours will be a tough transition. I can tell you from experience that I had voluntarily cut back my hours and was taking off a few afternoons a week, and was ending my Friday's early following my surgical cases.

Due to a change in practice scheduling and a re-arrangement of offices, etc., I suddenly found myself extremely busy, necessitating my working very long hours, every day of the week and even coming in on Saturday mornings to accommodate our patient load.

So if you anticipate that in the not-so-near future you may have the need to work more hours to keep up with financial needs, PLEASE don't take it "too" easy right now because I can assure you that it's very easy to get used to that schedule and when you do begin working more/longer hours, it makes that transition significantly more difficult. Trust me.....been there, done that!

Thank you for the thoughtful advice and I will take it to heart.:thumbup:
 
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