How difficult is a match into Orthopedic surgery?

[Led Zep]

I'll probably be attending PCOM and I wanted to know if anyone had any insight, is it a difficult match or what?

Please don't burn me too bad guys....

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[MedMan25]

Very.

 

[Black Adder]

Very.

I concur.

 

[ShyRem]

please dont' make me give my "80% of all med students change their minds from what they thought they wanted to do before they actually got into medical school but yes every medical student says they will NEVER change their minds and that I don't know them at all they're different and won't change their minds EVER" speech. Again.

That being said, we had several matches into ortho from my class. Difficult is dependent on your state of mind. Anything is possible if you work hard enough. Yes, even ophtho. Don't know about derm, no one I knew wanted derm. Get in, get good grades, rock the boards, do great on rotations, and you'll do fine.

 

[Led Zep]

please dont' make me give my "80% of all med students change their minds from what they thought they wanted to do before they actually got into medical school but yes every medical student says they will NEVER change their minds and that I don't know them at all they're different and won't change their minds EVER" speech. Again.

That being said, we had several matches into ortho from my class. Difficult is dependent on your state of mind. Anything is possible if you work hard enough. Yes, even ophtho. Don't know about derm, no one I knew wanted derm. Get in, get good grades, rock the boards, do great on rotations, and you'll do fine.

Thank you, I understand difficult and I completely accept that I may change my mind (I already have a number of times)

 

[Bostonredsox]

please dont' make me give my "80% of all med students change their minds from what they thought they wanted to do before they actually got into medical school but yes every medical student says they will NEVER change their minds and that I don't know them at all they're different and won't change their minds EVER" speech. Again.

That being said, we had several matches into ortho from my class. Difficult is dependent on your state of mind. Anything is possible if you work hard enough. Yes, even ophtho. Don't know about derm, no one I knew wanted derm. Get in, get good grades, rock the boards, do great on rotations, and you'll do fine.

And by 80% Shy means 100%. Everyone changes their minds alteast once. Even if you end up doing what you originally wanted to chances are somewhere along the way you changed your mind and then changed back. That said, their are DO ortho spots although not alot and I do know several DOs who matched allo ortho. You HAVE to take both USMLE steps and score very high on them. You should also plan on honoring every unit of med school and most definitely get away rotations at places you want to go. Even with all that it will be tough but its doable for those who want it bad enough.

 

[PistolPete]

Get in, get good grades, rock the boards, do great on rotations, and you'll do fine.

Easier said than done.

Ortho is a tough match, but doable. It will only become tougher in the coming years with increased medical school enrollment and stagnant residency spots. Good luck. Make sure to get some ortho research if you're serious.

 

[drizzt3117]

well the average step 1 for all students is 242, I would guess it'd be substantially higher for DO students. That said, our sports med fellow here is a DO.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Are we referring to DO or MD ortho?
I'd much rather pursue a DO ortho spot. It's just *easier* to match into (and it's already hard enough as it is for either match.)

 

[Led Zep]

Are we referring to DO or MD ortho?
I'd much rather pursue a DO ortho spot. It's just *easier* to match into (and it's already hard enough as it is for either match.)

Well I was just thinking in general, but I figured DO to be an"easier" match given the option of AOA residencies and allopathic residencies.

Thanks again everyone I thought I was in trouble when I asked this question. I think I would have been verbally spanked on the pre-med forum...

 

[DocEspana]

Shy mentioned ophtho. I think she may have meant ortho, but i'm going to assume she did not make a mistake for this comment.

DO ophtho is competitive, but not terribly hard since a few schools have ophtho residency spots in affiliated hospitals that take any competitive applicant*

*= and yet have only accepted people from the affiliated hospitals in the last few years.

There are some cases where the school you go to can seriously change your opportunities. The ophtho residency at St. John's has been TouroCA/NV/(NY) and NYCOM grads almost exclusively (by my cousins estimate. and hes just finishing his ophtho residency there) for at least 6 years now.

I have to imagine the remaining ophtho residency spots are extremely fought over though. There is almost certainly a DO school out there that has a similar parallel with their affiliated hospital which has an ortho program. These little details shouldn't decide what school you go to because everyone changes their mind so amny times. But once you're in a school you should find out what advantages they seem to have when you track the trends.

 

[LesBois88]

Matching ortho is always difficult, as an MD or DO student.

However, as a DO student PCOM is probably the most advantageous place to be because of their affiliation with one of the few (and arguably the best) AOA ortho residency.

 

[hanky1982]

And by 80% Shy means 100%. Everyone changes their minds alteast once. Even if you end up doing what you originally wanted to chances are somewhere along the way you changed your mind and then changed back.

False.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

OP, haven't you made this thread at least one other time in pre-DO?

matching ortho = competitive

 

[Led Zep]

OP, haven't you made this thread at least one other time in pre-DO?

matching ortho = competitive

Yes I made a thread there but as you mentioned it was in pre-DO and I was hoping for some more mature posts by students further along in their medical education with perhaps greater insights.

Is that alright?

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

sure, looks like a pretty similar spiel to me.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=797390

 

[Led Zep]

sure, looks like a pretty similar spiel to me.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=797390

Similar yes, but I wanted "medical student" posts, so that's why it's here now, and I got the information here that I didn't get there. That thread painted an ortho match as being much simpler than I suspected, this thread lets me know that it is in fact more competitive.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I'll probably be attending PCOM and I wanted to know if anyone had any insight, is it a difficult match or what?

Please don't burn me too bad guys....

There are easily 200+ applicants for 85 or so spots every year, very competitive if you ask me. You can't half ass ortho, you will have to be fully committed and be willing to take the risk of not getting a spot in the end. You will most likely be utilizing all your elective time in 4th year rotating at various programs, and therefore will not be able to have any backup specialty, i.e if you are serious about matching ortho.

 

[Led Zep]

There are easily 200+ applicants for 85 or so spots every year, very competitive if you ask me. You can't half ass ortho, you will have to be fully committed and be willing to take the risk of not getting a spot in the end. You will most likely be utilizing all your elective time in 4th year rotating at various programs, and therefore will not be able to have any backup specialty, i.e if you are serious about matching ortho.

Assuming there wasn't a backup specialty and one didn't successfully match can one strengthen their credentials and attempt to match the following year?

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

let's say you really like ortho, and you're aware of the competitiveness, and you do all of the right things (do well on roations, big board scores, audition roations, etc) and you apply for ortho in the AOA match.

since it is so competitive and you have another specialty you could see yourself in as a career just the same, would it be wise to apply for that specialty in the ACGME match?
we'll say it's PM&R since it's considered DO friendly.

 

[slammer922]

That said, their are DO ortho spots although not alot and I do know several DOs who matched allo ortho.

Several? I thought there was only a couple a year that pulled this off... I need to get advice from your friends... And a 260+ step 1.

 

[slammer922]

let's say you really like ortho, and you're aware of the competitiveness, and you do all of the right things (do well on roations, big board scores, audition roations, etc) and you apply for ortho in the AOA match.

since it is so competitive and you have another specialty you could see yourself in as a career just the same, would it be wise to apply for that specialty in the ACGME match?
we'll say it's PM&R since it's considered DO friendly.

This.........
I know it's 4 years away but this is def my plan.

 

[DarkHorizon]

let's say you really like ortho, and you're aware of the competitiveness, and you do all of the right things (do well on roations, big board scores, audition roations, etc) and you apply for ortho in the AOA match.

since it is so competitive and you have another specialty you could see yourself in as a career just the same, would it be wise to apply for that specialty in the ACGME match?
we'll say it's PM&R since it's considered DO friendly.

Hypothetically you can do that, however, it's a poor strategy. If you are a strong candidate, you will most likely match Ortho at one of the places you rotate at, in fact, you may not even have to do more than 2 or 3 rotations. In this case you will not need a back up.

However, if you are an average student looking to match ortho, you will spend all your elective time (however many rotations you get) trying to impress programs in hopes of getting a spot. If you had a back up in mind such as PM&R, you will have to do at least 1 rotation in PM&R to get letters and whatnot. This will take elective time away from your ortho rotations, and hence will give you a less of a chance of matching ortho. And therefore I said that matching ortho requires you to go all in, it's a commitment you must make if you are serious about matching and want to give yourself a maximum chance. These are my thoughts as an M2, someone who just matched ortho can probably elaborate more on this.

 

[Led Zep]

Hypothetically you can do that, however, it's a poor strategy. If you are a strong candidate, you will most likely match Ortho at one of the places you rotate at, in fact, you may not even have to do more than 2 or 3 rotations. In this case you will not need a back up.

However, if you are an average student looking to match ortho, you will spend all your elective time (however many rotations you get) trying to impress programs in hopes of getting a spot. If you had a back up in mind such as PM&R, you will have to do at least 1 rotation in PM&R to get letters and whatnot. This will take elective time away from your ortho rotations, and hence will give you a less of chance of matching ortho. And therefore I said that matching ortho is requires you to go all in, it's a commitment you must make if you are serious about matching and want to give yourself a maximum chance. These are my thoughts as an M2, someone who just matched ortho can probably elaborate more on this.

This is some very insightful info thank you.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Assuming there wasn't a backup specialty and one didn't successfully match can one strengthen their credentials and attempt to match the following year?

You will have to do an intern year at a place with an ortho program in hopes to try and snatch a spot away for next year. From what I have heard, matching the 2nd time is harder, therefore, you must try and maximize your chances the first time.

 

[hanky1982]

Hypothetically you can do that, however, it's a poor strategy. If you are a strong candidate, you will most likely match Ortho at one of the places you rotate at, in fact, you may not even have to do more than 2 or 3 rotations. In this case you will not need a back up.

However, if you are an average student looking to match ortho, you will spend all your elective time (however many rotations you get) trying to impress programs in hopes of getting a spot. If you had a back up in mind such as PM&R, you will have to do at least 1 rotation in PM&R to get letters and whatnot. This will take elective time away from your ortho rotations, and hence will give you a less of a chance of matching ortho. And therefore I said that matching ortho requires you to go all in, it's a commitment you must make if you are serious about matching and want to give yourself a maximum chance. These are my thoughts as an M2, someone who just matched ortho can probably elaborate more on this.

As an MSIV who just matched ortho I can elaborate a little more... First, even if you are a "strong" candidate, you will most likely still need to use all of your away rotations. The thought of not matching strikes the fear of God in you, and the risk of not doing an additional away far outweighs your preconceived notion that you are "in" at a program. Nearly every student I ran into on audition rotations spent all of their elective months on ortho auditions, even if they felt they were in good shape at a program.

Dabbling in to fields is a soft no-no. As mentioned above, you need to be all in. It is checkers or wreckers. The programs want to see you committed to ortho and not on the fence. Going on auditions in other fields would portray that you are not fully committed (right or wrong).

I know of a student who didn't match ortho, but did interviews at ACGME programs in PM&R. In November he was getting the feeling that he wasn't going to match, so he used ACGME PM&R as his backup plan. He didn't do any away rotations in PMR, just interviews. If you don't match, I would advise looking at doing an intern year at a program that has an ortho program, but even then, your chances are substantially decreased (but interns do match every year).

 

[Led Zep]

As an MSIV who just matched ortho I can elaborate a little more... First, even if you are a "strong" candidate, you will most likely still need to use all of your away rotations. The thought of not matching strikes the fear of God in you, and the risk of not doing an additional away far outweighs your preconceived notion that you are "in" at a program. Nearly every student I ran into on audition rotations spent all of their elective months on ortho auditions, even if they felt they were in good shape at a program.

Dabbling in to fields is a soft no-no. As mentioned above, you need to be all in. It is checkers or wreckers. The programs want to see you committed to ortho and not on the fence. Going on auditions in other fields would portray that you are not fully committed (right or wrong).

I know of a student who didn't match ortho, but did interviews at ACGME programs in PM&R. In November he was getting the feeling that he wasn't going to match, so he used ACGME PM&R as his backup plan. He didn't do any away rotations in PMR, just interviews. If you don't match, I would advise looking at doing an intern year at a program that has an ortho program, but even then, your chances are substantially decreased (but interns do match every year).

Was this an AOA residency you matched into (I'm assuming as this is the osteopathic forum it was)?

Just curious...

 

[hanky1982]

Was this an AOA residency you matched into (I'm assuming as this is the osteopathic forum it was)?

Just curious...

Yes.


To the OP, either way it is hard.

 

[Led Zep]

Yes.


To the OP, either way it is hard.

Completely understood, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, congrats on the achievement.

I've considered a master's before med school, I noticed on PCOM's website that a number of their ortho residents had a master's. Any thoughts on this? Also did you do ortho related research? I have a lot of questions if you have the time or wouldn't mind a PM? Thanks for taking the time either way!

 

[hanky1982]

Completely understood, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, congrats on the achievement.

I've considered a master's before med school, I noticed on PCOM's website that a number of their ortho residents had a master's. Any thoughts on this? Also did you do ortho related research? I have a lot of questions if you have the time or wouldn't mind a PM? Thanks for taking the time either way!

Thanks.

Master's isn't needed unless it will help you get into medical school. Once in school, where and what you did your undergrad education in is meaningless. If you can get into medical school now, and you don't have to do a master's I would matriculate as soon as possible. It won't add much to your application with regards to ortho.

Yes I did do ortho research. This was about 4th on the list of "important" things to do to get into ortho. First being a solid auditioning student, then boards, then class grades, then extra-curricular/research. How well you do on auditions>boards>>>>>>> grades>> EC/research. Good luck.

If any of you have questions, feel free to PM any time.

 

[Bostonredsox]

False.

True. The overwhelming majority of students change their minds atleast once even if they end up with their original plan. I realise you always wanted to be ortho and you have never wavered, but your example represents the 0.01%. The other 99.99% changed at some point. smartass.

 

[sonofva]

As an MSIV who just matched ortho I can elaborate a little more... First, even if you are a "strong" candidate, you will most likely still need to use all of your away rotations. The thought of not matching strikes the fear of God in you, and the risk of not doing an additional away far outweighs your preconceived notion that you are "in" at a program. Nearly every student I ran into on audition rotations spent all of their elective months on ortho auditions, even if they felt they were in good shape at a program.

Dabbling in to fields is a soft no-no. As mentioned above, you need to be all in. It is checkers or wreckers. The programs want to see you committed to ortho and not on the fence. Going on auditions in other fields would portray that you are not fully committed (right or wrong).

I know of a student who didn't match ortho, but did interviews at ACGME programs in PM&R. In November he was getting the feeling that he wasn't going to match, so he used ACGME PM&R as his backup plan. He didn't do any away rotations in PMR, just interviews. If you don't match, I would advise looking at doing an intern year at a program that has an ortho program, but even then, your chances are substantially decreased (but interns do match every year).

just as a general q. how many away rotations were you able to fit in between 3rd year and interview time? thanks.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

As an MSIV who just matched ortho I can elaborate a little more... First, even if you are a "strong" candidate, you will most likely still need to use all of your away rotations. The thought of not matching strikes the fear of God in you, and the risk of not doing an additional away far outweighs your preconceived notion that you are "in" at a program. Nearly every student I ran into on audition rotations spent all of their elective months on ortho auditions, even if they felt they were in good shape at a program.

Dabbling in to fields is a soft no-no. As mentioned above, you need to be all in. It is checkers or wreckers. The programs want to see you committed to ortho and not on the fence. Going on auditions in other fields would portray that you are not fully committed (right or wrong).

I know of a student who didn't match ortho, but did interviews at ACGME programs in PM&R. In November he was getting the feeling that he wasn't going to match, so he used ACGME PM&R as his backup plan. He didn't do any away rotations in PMR, just interviews. If you don't match, I would advise looking at doing an intern year at a program that has an ortho program, but even then, your chances are substantially decreased (but interns do match every year).

How do they have a clue if you went on other auditions unless they were in the same hospital?

 

[Colbert]

The attendings may not be technically allowed to ask you where else you're rotation or interviewing, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'd say I was asked where else I was rotating about 10 times on each of my audition rotations and even where else I was interviewing at my different interviews.

 

[hanky1982]

True. The overwhelming majority of students change their minds atleast once even if they end up with their original plan. I realise you always wanted to be ortho and you have never wavered, but your example represents the 0.01%. The other 99.99% changed at some point. smartass.

Oh yeah, I am the smartass for making blanket comments... nice one. Actually there are quite a lot of people who have not wavered from their original interest, myself included. However, I agree with you that a lot of students and probably the majority of them change their minds and flip-flop at least once. I feel that the 80% was probably a more accurate estimate of people changing their mind. But, I try to stay away from global comments, especially saying something like "100%" in a forum with impressionable underclassmen. Was trying to make the example that there are quite a few of us that haven't changed their minds. Point was that I think you painted with too broad of a brush and then took offense when called on it. Let me guess you asked everyone in your class if they changed their mind??? Most likely not. Thus, don't assume you know everyone's desires. I forgot, I am the smartass for vouching for people I don't even know... grow up.

 

[hanky1982]

just as a general q. how many away rotations were you able to fit in between 3rd year and interview time? thanks.

5.

I was able to do an audition rotation in June of my third year. Was close enough to the end of my academic year that the program counted it as an audition. Then as a 4th year, I rotated at 4 places, (July-October).

 

[hanky1982]

How do they have a clue if you went on other auditions unless they were in the same hospital?

They don't. But they will ask where else you rotated. I think I was asked this at every place I rotated. It wasn't so much of to find out if you were committed as it was used as a talking point (nice ice breaker). But, if you had said you were also doing auditions in IM and General Surgery and ortho then it would probably raise red flags. Point is, they want to see you committed, and if you are doing rotations in other fields during your precious audition months then the programs might think you aren't as committed (right or wrongfully so).

 

[Bostonredsox]

Oh yeah, I am the smartass for making blanket comments... nice one. Actually there are quite a lot of people who have not wavered from their original interest, myself included. However, I agree with you that a lot of students and probably the majority of them change their minds and flip-flop at least once. I feel that the 80% was probably a more accurate estimate of people changing their mind. But, I try to stay away from global comments, especially saying something like "100%" in a forum with impressionable underclassmen. Was trying to make the example that there are quite a few of us that haven't changed their minds. Point was that I think you painted with too broad of a brush and then took offense when called on it. Let me guess you asked everyone in your class if they changed their mind??? Most likely not. Thus, don't assume you know everyone's desires. I forgot, I am the smartass for vouching for people I don't even know... grow up.

I graduated with 300, only know the names of about 30 of them so I definitely didn't ask everyone if they changed their minds. It's more of an observation over the 4 years of school with my own classmates and others that I met on rotations. Most people have told me that they have toyed with the idea of several different specialties before they settled on what they wanted to do. A great deal of them ended up doing what they originally wanted to do, but somewhere along the road considered doing other things to the point that they started too look into them. Nothing you said offended me, your reply just had a one line snappy response which is why I gave you the smartass response. Personaly I could care less just reinforcing Shys comments that their is a far greater chance, whether its 80 or 100 or in between, that the OP will change his/her mind long before they get to ERAS applications.

 

[DocEspana]

Dabbling in to fields is a soft no-no. As mentioned above, you need to be all in. It is checkers or wreckers. The programs want to see you committed to ortho and not on the fence. Going on auditions in other fields would portray that you are not fully committed (right or wrong).

I'll probe you for a further expansion on the bolded phrase. I have been told time and time again that it is an *absolute* mistake to do more than 3 rotations in the same specialty. The 4th years and residents i've talked to have been very explicit on this. They suggest 2. 3 if its very competitive and you're not a lock of a candidate. absolutely never 4 because then you're just wasting your time. They constest if you act early its not hard to find highly respected programs to rotate in and LoRs from there should be more than enough to near-equivocate actually rotating there and allow you to have more depth in your application.

Care to comment on why you suggest differently?

 

[DarkHorizon]

I'll probe you for a further expansion on the bolded phrase. I have been told time and time again that it is an *absolute* mistake to do more than 3 rotations in the same specialty. The 4th years and residents i've talked to have been very explicit on this. They suggest 2. 3 if its very competitive and you're not a lock of a candidate. absolutely never 4 because then you're just wasting your time. They constest if you act early its not hard to find highly respected programs to rotate in and LoRs from there should be more than enough to near-equivocate actually rotating there and allow you to have more depth in your application.

Care to comment on why you suggest differently?

That would be true in something like Anesthesia or EM, DO Ortho is a different world, it is certainly to your advantage to do as many rotations as you can do.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

The amount of bad advice in this thread is astounding.

Most people that match ortho have only ever wanted to do ortho. Even if you have a moment of doubt, never let a program know that...it's a very "all or nothing" field.

There was a girl on one of my aways that told everyone that she was doing a gen-surg 4th yr elective b/c she was still "weighing her options". They looked at her like she had three heads. There are few statements that can instantly destroy your chances at a program...that is defiantly one of them.

Do as many ortho aways as your school allows. The only reason you should consider not doing an additional pre-interview ortho elective is if you are burned out and are worried you will make a bad impression (in this case i would recommend growing a pair / building a bridge / sucking it up).

They are allowed to ask where else you rotated while you are rotating and will ask during interviews even though they aren't allowed. Don't lie, everyone knows people rotate at more than one program.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

I'll probe you for a further expansion on the bolded phrase. I have been told time and time again that it is an *absolute* mistake to do more than 3 rotations in the same specialty. The 4th years and residents i've talked to have been very explicit on this. They suggest 2. 3 if its very competitive and you're not a lock of a candidate. absolutely never 4 because then you're just wasting your time. They constest if you act early its not hard to find highly respected programs to rotate in and LoRs from there should be more than enough to near-equivocate actually rotating there and allow you to have more depth in your application.

Care to comment on why you suggest differently?

This is simple...most DO programs heavily favor rotators. If you apply MD, you almost have to rotate at a program to have any shot. The more places you rotate at the better your chances are that you will be ranked highly by one. Even if you are a superstar, going to four places can only help. Let's say you do two aways and you hate one program. That leaves one program that has to really like you, otherwise you are going to get stuck at a garbage program (more likely) or be ranked by a place that only met you are interview day (less likely). Most people that do DO ortho know where they are matching before match day...this is due to taking mostly rotators.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I did 3 ortho rotations. 2 of them were third year and only 1 during interview season. Actually didn't even match at that program, but was taken by a program I rotated at April of third year. I was 99% ortho minded from day 1 of school and I always told the residents and attendings that I wanted to be an orthopod "when I grew up." The hardest part of matching ortho, imo, is keeping ur sanity with the uncertainty that u may not match even after a program tells u that u you have prematched. Doesn't count until after u get the e-mail from the AOA saying you matched "orthopedic surgery." Actually know of one candidate a year ahead of me who had 675, 750 step I/II, did 5 straight ortho rotations through interview season, was told he pre-matched at one program, and ended up not matching. He did eventually get in after one place got additional funding for another spot and he got interviewed strictly because of his board scores. On ur auditions, you have to work hard and be somewhat assertive, but not annoying. The PDs and residents can tell who is kissing their rears and who is the real deal, and someone they would be willing to invest 5 years into. Every program has a slightly different climate and will be looking for something different in everyone they rank, but the bottom line characteristic for DO ortho is probably just a genuine enthusiasm for the specialty and not being completely clueless when it comes to fracture classifications/management, conservative management for bread and butter ortho conditions and msk anatomy.

 

[hanky1982]

I'll probe you for a further expansion on the bolded phrase. I have been told time and time again that it is an *absolute* mistake to do more than 3 rotations in the same specialty. The 4th years and residents i've talked to have been very explicit on this. They suggest 2. 3 if its very competitive and you're not a lock of a candidate. absolutely never 4 because then you're just wasting your time. They constest if you act early its not hard to find highly respected programs to rotate in and LoRs from there should be more than enough to near-equivocate actually rotating there and allow you to have more depth in your application.

Care to comment on why you suggest differently?

Not sure where you got that info. I can only speak for ortho, as other fields might have different dynamics. For ortho, doing every rotation you can is beneficial. Hell, if I could have done more I would have. You build your fund of knowledge with every rotation, and your proficiency improves after each month. No where on the ortho trail did someone say: "5 ortho rotations was too many." You need to be committed to ortho, as it is a very all or nothing mentality.

Ortho might be different than other fields with regards to setting rotations up, but generally you want to set up your 4th year rotations in Feb-March of your third year. Nearly all of the ortho programs are solid and securing spots early to rotate at different locations is crucial. Even the more "competitive" programs still will want you to schedule early as they often fill up pretty quickly.

As for LOR, I got my LORs from attendings here in Vegas. I never got an LOR from an attending while out on my rotations. In ortho, your performance and board scores far outweigh everything else on your application. Thus rotating at more places increases your chances (assuming you have the chops). Not once did I feel on any of my 5 ortho auditions that I was wasting my time by going to too many, and I feel that this is the general consensus for the field.

 

[DocEspana]

Not sure where you got that info. I can only speak for ortho, as other fields might have different dynamics. For ortho, doing every rotation you can is beneficial. Hell, if I could have done more I would have. You build your fund of knowledge with every rotation, and your proficiency improves after each month. No where on the ortho trail did someone say: "5 ortho rotations was too many." You need to be committed to ortho, as it is a very all or nothing mentality.

Ortho might be different than other fields with regards to setting rotations up, but generally you want to set up your 4th year rotations in Feb-March of your third year. Nearly all of the ortho programs are solid and securing spots early to rotate at different locations is crucial. Even the more "competitive" programs still will want you to schedule early as they often fill up pretty quickly.

As for LOR, I got my LORs from attendings here in Vegas. I never got an LOR from an attending while out on my rotations. In ortho, your performance and board scores far outweigh everything else on your application. Thus rotating at more places increases your chances (assuming you have the chops). Not once did I feel on any of my 5 ortho auditions that I was wasting my time by going to too many, and I feel that this is the general consensus for the field.

well then that speaks for itself. The advice i was given was from anesthesiology, Emergency Med and PMnR. All of which are a clear different dynamic than ortho. I fully trust the comments above are much more applicable to ortho than my previous comments. so. yea. owned. hahaha. thanks for clarifying this, guys.

 

[hanky1982]

well then that speaks for itself. The advice i was given was from anesthesiology, Emergency Med and PMnR. All of which are a clear different dynamic than ortho. I fully trust the comments above are much more applicable to ortho than my previous comments. so. yea. owned. hahaha. thanks for clarifying this, guys.

No worries, just wanted you to have the correct info.

 

[kazuma]

I suppose it's all relative. I know this is n=1, but there was one AOA program this year that only had 3 students interviewing for the 2 spots. A fourth student became interested in the program the week before the interview, spent a couple of days visiting the program, interviewed, and was one of the 2 applicants that matched. 50% odds, not bad eh? I'm sure there are more competitive programs out there. I know my buddies that matched into ortho were stressed to the max during auditions and interviews.

 

[Parts Unknown]

True. The overwhelming majority of students change their minds atleast once even if they end up with their original plan. I realise you always wanted to be ortho and you have never wavered, but your example represents the 0.01%. The other 99.99% changed at some point. smartass.

Only 0.01%? Wow, I feel extra special.

 

[naus]

Don't kid yourself, it's much more difficult to match ortho as a DO than as an MD.

Some of you above argued that it's easier for DOs to match because they have AOA ortho residencies to fall back on, but you have to understand that there are much fewer AOA ortho spots available relative to the number of DO students than allopathic ortho. Also, the whole residency match process is a lot less meritocratic than some of you think. It's more like a job application. And the smaller the number of seats available, the more arbitrary the selection criteria becomes (spouse also matching to same hospital, you did research in same area as the PD, etc).

Only 3 DOs in the entire country matched into an allopathic ortho residency in 2010:

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf (page 21 in pdf)

 

[LesBois88]

There are fewer DO ortho spots, but fewer DO students. I don't know the numbers, but you'd have to see the allopathic vs. osteopathic as a comparison of students per spot.