How do you deal with condescending comments about dentistry from those in medicine?

[SLC]

In regards to your statement about antibiotic prophylaxis, I think it's better just to have an office supply. Why should i reschedule a patient if I'm unsure about abx prophylaxis? If guidelines say so or if the patient wants it even if the guidelines not to because they've had to do it in the past, it's just easier to dispense 4 tabs amox or clinda or whatever abx they aren't allergic to. I carry amox, clinda, and for the rare ones, azithromycin for abx prophylaxis. Med consult means getting lost in the system for deferred treatment. Unless they had a chance of dying on my chair or ONJ or other things, I stick to doing dentistry and not play "medical doctor".

If a patient wants antibiotics that aren’t indicated, it’s be good to counsel them on risk:benefit. Antibiotics have adverse effects, I’ve lost a patient to C-diff after antibiotics for instance.

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[TanMan]

If a patient wants antibiotics that aren’t indicated, it’s be good to counsel them on risk:benefit. Antibiotics have adverse effects, I’ve lost a patient to C-diff after antibiotics for instance.

Definitely a clinical call when it comes to risk management. If the patient has been getting abx prophylaxis all their life and the guidelines say not to anymore and something happens that may not necessarily be linked to not giving abx, liability can strike. Looking at it from the big picture, if the patient has a sensitive GI system, risk factors for c-diff, etc... then you can avoid abx prophylaxis. Otherwise, I'd give it.

 

[SLC]

Definitely a clinical call when it comes to risk management. If the patient has been getting abx prophylaxis all their life and the guidelines say not to anymore and something happens that may not necessarily be linked to not giving abx, liability can strike. Looking at it from the big picture, if the patient has a sensitive GI system, risk factors for c-diff, etc... then you can avoid abx prophylaxis. Otherwise, I'd give it.

And you’re a doc, so that’s your call. Just don’t pester the patient’s PCP to do it is all I ask.

 

[TanMan]

And you’re a doc, so that’s your call. Just don’t pester the patient’s PCP to do it is all I ask.

Definitely. I hate trying to contact docs in my area. Horrendous waste of time and resources on my front end and my end (if i have to talk to them). These are non-billable hours for me and I lose money. If i could charge by 15 minute increments, I'd be on the phone all day. I'm sure you guys see it the same way.

 

[sb.tnh]

It’s more than writing prescriptions all day.

It’s diagnostic work, ordering consults and studies, mental health counseling, end of life care, pediatric well exams, women’s health/gynecology, family planning, minor trauma, office procedures, etc etc etc.

Sure, I write a lot of prescriptions, but it’s hardly all I do.

I average 32 hours per week, I’m employed so I have no stress from running a private business. I go to work at 8:30, home for lunch at 11:30-1:30, head back and finish the day and am generally home by 5. I am just starting out and not yet fully established and made $240k + benefits last year.

Average salary nationwide in my field is pushing to around 250-300k these days. I anticipate making around $310-320 with the occasional weekend of inpatient call that I do (on a purely voluntary basis).

I know there are plenty of dentists that do better than that, but in my mind they “have to practice dentistry to do it” so I’m not jealous.

I absolutely love my job, I would hate dentistry and get bored super quick (have dentists in the family, know what they do). But that doesn’t mean I don’t respect dentists and understand that there’s a whole breed out there who love it. That’s a good thing because we all need you!

One thing I do wish though, for those of you coming up through dentistry...listen up:

If you think a patient needs antibiotic prophylaxis before some dental work, please consult the guidelines first. And then if after that, you still think so, please write your own prescription. Don’t ask me to do it for you. It’s not a professional courtesy, it looks like your trying to “share liability” and I know you have the ability to write rx’s.

I’ll sooner help my patient find a new dentist than write for amoxicillin just so you can feel comfortable doing what you went through a rigorous training program to do. You’re an expert in your field, you hold a terminal degree; act like it.

And when I get a walk-in dental abscess, I’ll drain it, I’ll even write antibiotics then since I was the first one to touch that patient’s problem, but then I need your help; please don’t make my staff jump through any hoops to get the patient seen!!!

...End rant...

Medicine and Dentistry are both rigorous and important. Different strokes is all.

What’s your field of medicine if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[SLC]

What’s your field of medicine if you don’t mind me asking?

Family Medicine.

 

[321931]

Holy moly this thread took off on something so trivial.

Here’s a thought:

I slightly think this is from immaturity because I remember those days in my 20s where money gpa and job defined who I was. I went to dental school and therefore I’m smarter than you and up the ladder it goes. I went to medical school and therefore I’m smarter than you.

However, as I have grown, I’ve noticed that absolutely no one gives a **** if you are a surgeon versus a dentist versus a successful business owner. When I get together with my friends we talk about game of thrones or football or stocks or politics or biking. And yes in my circle of friends there are highly successful business owners that didn’t have to invest in 10 year 300k graduate degree. In fact I think they are the smartest ones and I’m pretty sure they think we are the dumb ones.

I think a good point to note is if your profession is the ultimate source of pride that defines who you are.... then I suggest getting a hobby because sitting and chatting with a bunch of people about how medicine or dentistry gives them an identity is tends to be empty. There’s only so much conversation about coding, managing schedule and working in the hospital that the conversation eventually goes to “wow” “that’s crazy you work so many hours” “wow I can’t believe that”

So what’s my point? No one gives a **** in the long run, do what you enjoy, find people that are normal outgoing, ignore the haters and if you are in the period of your life where people are flexing about their career choices... well they will grow out of it and if they don’t, then find some normal people that have some hobbies and enjoy talking about how Toronto is going to win the finals and how game of thrones had a great ending.

 

[Kuratz]

Coming from an MD perspective: the topic of dentists/dentistry comes up almost never, but when it does I find most people come from a jealousy angle because working 80+ hours a week for $60k as a resident in your 30s ****ing blows and dentists have an amazing work-life balance. Most of my colleagues have professional respect for dentists as oral health experts and we certainly have very little knowledge of the mouth. The ones who **** on dentists are likely miserable people who feel the need to justify their decision to pursue their path by putting others down.

My cousin is a dentist about 5 years into practice. During dental school he and most of his friends seemed much happier at baseline than my med school classmates. In practice he hustled pretty hard as an associate for a couple of years but rarely worked nights/weekends while still making six figs and now kills it as a partner working 3.5 days/wk. I mean, literally saving someone's life by performing a procedure is amazing but at some point most will realize that there is so much more to life than being up at 2am in the hospital dealing with something yet again. I think given the choice most of my co-residents would switch into dentistry in a heartbeat but I'm not sure the converse is true.

Take pride in what you do. Dentists are valuable to the health of patients and experts in their niche. Don't worry about what some douchebag med student thinks... you can wave when you pass the hospital on your way to playing golf on Fridays.

 

[free99]

That may be, but in my (admittedly limited) experience it has been Dentists that are the most common offenders that I’ve run up against.

A story...

I received a letter from a dentist a few years ago demanding that I write my patient a prescription for augmentin (even included the sig he wanted in his letter) in order for this patient to have an extraction done. She had no indications for the ppx, but she did have some ortho hardware in her spine from about 15 years prior; and I think that’s what had him spooked. So I called the dental office and kindly told them she wouldn’t require ppx, and that the doc there could pull the tooth without the antibiotic.

Another letter arrived a few days later, again demanding I write a prescription so my “patient could receive needed dental care”. I mailed back a copy of the guidelines with the parts relevant to this woman highlighted and said “if doctor dentist wants this patient on antibiotics, he can prescribe, but the evidence doesn’t support it, so I won’t.

I got a 3rd letter, again threatening to cancel this woman’s procedure if I didn’t write the prescription; so I found her a new dentist and she got the work done the following week. No unnecessary antibiotics required.

That wasn’t the only time I’ve gone through this, but it was the most aggressive dentist I’ve come up against. People like that need to be shown the door.

Slightly related -- how do you feel about dentists asking you to write sedatives for our shared patients before coming in to a dental appointment? We work with a lot of special needs patients in residency, many of whom are sedated with meds written by their MD for all sorts of routine appointments, dental cleanings/restorations included.

 

[SLC]

Slightly related -- how do you feel about dentists asking you to write sedatives for our shared patients before coming in to a dental appointment? We work with a lot of special needs patients in residency, many of whom are sedated with meds written by their MD for all sorts of routine appointments, dental cleanings/restorations included.

If it’s something the dentist feels uncomfortable with dosing; I’d write for a one time dose. Something like Ativan or Valium?

But most dentists I’ve come across have written for that on their own; I sorta feel like a proceduralist should be comfortable with sedation. But you guys don’t always know the ins and outs of a person’s medical history etc.

 

[2TH MVR]

If it’s something the dentist feels uncomfortable with dosing; I’d write for a one time dose. Something like Ativan or Valium?

But most dentists I’ve come across have written for that on their own; I sorta feel like a proceduralist should be comfortable with sedation. But you guys don’t always know the ins and outs of a person’s medical history etc.

My opinion is that the treating dentist should be responsible for writing their own scripts. I can only imagine what it looks like when a dentist calls an MD's office to ask for a script for a mutual patient. If you are in an environment where you treat patients that require sedatives, etc ..... then maybe the dentist should brush up on sedatives pharmacology (drug interactions, etc.). Just because we're dentists doesn't exclude us from understanding the patient's medical history and possible drug interactions.

 

[Cold Front]

Might be too silly of a question but was genuinely wondering if I am the only one experiencing this or if it's a common thing lol.
A lot of people I meet and those who are in my life are in medicine. I am often faced with a lot of condescending comments and questions. I was asked last week if dental boards are "actually hard?". How do you guys deal with comments and questions that are condescending from those who are in medicine?

I use to hear that a lot and felt the same way you feel, until I realized that - to be offended is a choice we make. It’s not a condition inflicted or imposed upon us by someone or something. The best approach is to remember that you can’t let get people’s opinions or what they think of you under your skin. Those experiences eventually make you stronger. I have siblings and friends who are MD’s and we have mutual respect and admirations for one another. Only the immature have the wrong perceptions about other people and their trades, and confuse them with facts or truths.

 

[Blake1e]

Might be too silly of a question but was genuinely wondering if I am the only one experiencing this or if it's a common thing lol.
A lot of people I meet and those who are in my life are in medicine. I am often faced with a lot of condescending comments and questions. I was asked last week if dental boards are "actually hard?". How do you guys deal with comments and questions that are condescending from those who are in medicine?

I've only received condescending remarks from 2 med school students and they were the haughty type I usually dont like to hang out with. I just found their out-of-nowhere attitude weird and I just nod and talk about something else. I've yet to encounter this attitude from any of the many practicing MDs I know, some have even expressed a bit of envy in how much less stressful dentistry is.

When non-dental people ask if dental boards are hard, I just give them my honest thoughts, that I thought it was pretty straightforward. I honestly didn't think the boards were difficult, and when I say this people often dont believe me and just think I'm smart. However when I say this to MDs and med students it just confirms what they thought, which is fine. I've looked at their USMLE practice exams and it's definitely more challenging. Becoming an MD is much more challenging than becoming a DDS/DMD, so I have no problem acknowledging the hard work and success of others.

Of the 2 people I've ever received condescending remarks or attitude from, one is actually my cousin, who's in his residency program. It's usually something he brings up one way or another in the first 5 minutes of conversation whenever I'm back home. Like me, he's a bookworm with good grades. However, unlike me, he acts like a know-it-all and thinks his academics make him superior to others. This behavior strongly suggests to me he's looking for a figurative pat on the back for his hard work, but doing so just feeds his arrogance and makes him less pleasant to be around so I stopped doing that. Nowadays, I let him say what he wants then change the topic to something else he likes to talk about. He isn't the type to be convinced by anything unless an authority figure tells him.

 

[Biffster]

One word: ignorance. It amazes me how little physicians know about dentistry. And that's OK. Nationally it's slightly easier to get into dental school compared to MD med. It's definitely easier to get into DO school than dental (do DO schools still allow for grade replacement?).

People who can get into dental school would generally be good candidates for MD medical school and stellar candidates for DO school. So if they wanted to go to medical school they would have. End of story. At my alma mater the MD school GPA is one tenth of a point higher than the dental school. That's a meaningless difference.

Med and dent are both difficult for those first four years. Of course big difference is DDS can go get a good job at that point if they choose.

Pay for general dentists compares favorably to family med and peds (and I believe it's easier for a DDS to earn 500k+ as a general dentist than it is for a fam practice or pediatrician to do the same). Dental specialty pay compares very favorably to medical specialties.

Do what fits you best. It's always good advice to keep your mouth shut about things you don't understand. Legitimate questions should aways be answered with the same sincerity with which they were posed.

I love being a dentist. I love being my own boss. I make a lot of money, but more importantly I enjoy what I do and my patients genuinely appreciate what I do for them.

 

[SLC]

One word: ignorance. It amazes me how little physicians know about dentistry. And that's OK. Nationally it's slightly easier to get into dental school compared to MD med. It's definitely easier to get into DO school than dental (do DO schools still allow for grade replacement?).

People who can get into dental school would generally be good candidates for MD medical school and stellar candidates for DO school. So if they wanted to go to medical school they would have. End of story. At my alma mater the MD school GPA is one tenth of a point higher than the dental school. That's a meaningless difference.

Med and dent are both difficult for those first four years. Of course big difference is DDS can go get a good job at that point if they choose.

Pay for general dentists compares favorably to family med and peds (and I believe it's easier for a DDS to earn 500k+ as a general dentist than it is for a fam practice or pediatrician to do the same). Dental specialty pay compares very favorably to medical specialties.

Do what fits you best. It's always good advice to keep your mouth shut about things you don't understand. Legitimate questions should aways be answered with the same sincerity with which they were posed.

I love being a dentist. I love being my own boss. I make a lot of money, but more importantly I enjoy what I do and my patients genuinely appreciate what I do for them.

I think most of the condescending comments generally surround dental school difficulty vs medical school difficulty. Comparing licensing exams, knowledge base required to practice etc. I certainly hope nobody Dick-measures pre-Med/pre-dent GPA’s; that’d be quite lame.

Not that comparing after training is anything other than lame too.

 

[Biffster]

I think most of the condescending comments generally surround dental school difficulty vs medical school difficulty. Comparing licensing exams, knowledge base required to practice etc. I certainly hope nobody Dick-measures pre-Med/pre-dent GPA’s; that’d be quite lame.

Not that comparing after training is anything other than lame too.

That hasn't been my observation. In general I've mostly noticed inadvertent slights based on the idea that it's easier to get into dental school. But maybe part of it is also that there is a perception that dental school is "easier." There is a greater overall knowledge base that is taught to med students but dental students have to actually learn how to be a dentist so they are ready to practice when they graduate. That makes for a much more involved 3rd and 4th year than medical school rotations. Also, first two years of med/dent are similar in total workload because, again, the dental students are learning to do dentistry in addition to doing basic sciences.

While there has been talk in the past about adding a 5th year to dental school, there has also been talk recently about whether medical school should be 3 years instead of 4, and there is an expanding number of medical schools offering a 3 year option. Based on experiences of friends and family members who went the MD route it seems like 3rd year and especially 4th year is primarily about choosing a specialty. Meanwhile, many dentists already opt to do essentially a fifth year via a GPR or AEGD program and some states require that extra year for licensure as a dentist (DE, NY) while several others will grant a license upon completion of a PGY1 program. Clearly there is a trend in that direction so a fifth year of dental school, either integrated officially with the DDS program or as a PGY1 program is likley the direction we are headed.

Again, it appears some people forget that when someone graduates from dental school they need to be ready to actually practice on patients, whereas medical school is about building a broad base of knowledge in preparation for the more specialized education and training they will receive in residency. It's apples and oranges.

 

[2TH MVR]

Clearly there is a trend in that direction so a fifth year of dental school, either integrated officially with the DDS program or as a PGY1 program is likley the direction we are headed.

Why? What's the point of a 5th year? Who is this going to benefit? Is there a suggestion that 4 year dental students are not prepared enough to start practice? Maybe there's an alternate, self-serving reason NY, DEL require the 5th year.

 

[Biffster]

Why? What's the point of a 5th year? Who is this going to benefit? Is there a suggestion that 4 year dental students are not prepared enough to start practice? Maybe there's an alternate, self-serving reason NY, DEL require the 5th year.

I'm sure there are many views on the subject. The point is that it's definitely something that's being discussed. I would guess the most popular reasons given for it include a greater depth of training in the basic areas and also an opportunity to learn more about advanced areas of dentistry (implants, cosmetic dentistry etc).

My point was that clearly many people believe there is too much to be packed into four years of dental school while there are also many who believe medical school could and should be shortened to three years. The fact that these debates exist provides an argument against the idea that medical school is "harder" than dental school.

A debate about whether dental school should have a mandatory fifth (or PGY1) year is a whole other topic probably for a different thread.

 

[Biffster]

The last thing I'll add is I have a personal friend who started in dental school, struggled and dropped out after two years. He was accepted into medical school after taking a year off. He was subsequently accepted into what apparently is the most competitive specialty in medicine (derm) at a prestigious program and is now doing well in private practice. He struggled in dental school because he had a hard time learning the hand skills to do lab and clinical dentistry. He had to spend so much time working on preclinical lab stuff that he didn't have enough time to devote to studying basic science classes. He wanted to be a particular dental specialist and when he saw his grades weren't going to be good enough he bailed.

Are the basic sciences classes in medical school more in depth? Probably. But med students spend pretty much all of their time and energy just preparing for exams. They don't have to spend time in the preclinical lab developing the hand skills necessary to do start working on patients as a second year student. It's a different animal. As an aside, I always thought it would be in the public's best interest if there were some way to distinguish which medical students have good hand skills and which don't (some kind of aptitude test for dexterity and spacial recognition) and to allow only those with good hand skills to become surgeons. Choosing surgical residents based on things like research and board scores seems to be missing an important element. Yes, hand skills can be developed, but as a dental student is was painfully obvious some have it and some just don't. I guess that's another reason to choose a surgeon who is mid-career. At least they will have had time to develop reasonable skills by then.

 

[321931]

5 years of dental school? That would bring tuition up to 600k+ LOL. 1 million in dollar debt graduates would be flooding the field from student loans undergrad and grad.

Regardless, I think dentistry can be condensed to 3 years. We have mid-level providers graduating with basic degrees and working on people.

 

[2TH MVR]

5 years of dental school? That would bring tuition up to 600k+ LOL. 1 million in dollar debt graduates would be flooding the field from student loans undergrad and grad.

Regardless, I think dentistry can be condensed to 3 years. We have mid-level providers graduating with basic degrees and working on people.

I believe he was implying a paid 5th year residency.

 

[ab117]

5 years of dental school? That would bring tuition up to 600k+ LOL. 1 million in dollar debt graduates would be flooding the field from student loans undergrad and grad.

Regardless, I think dentistry can be condensed to 3 years. We have mid-level providers graduating with basic degrees and working on people.

UoP has been doing it successfully for how long? Seems crazy to me that anyone would argue for a fifth year, wouldn't it make more sense for all schools to cut down on broad whole-body basic-science education that most dental students just complain about having to do and then forget, focus more on pre-clinical and dental courses D1, and then treat patients D2, D3, and D4? Or all cut to 3 years like UoP.

 

[ab117]

I believe he was implying a paid 5th year residency.

I think if it was mandatory it would just be a de facto D5 though, even if you were paid, wouldn't it likely be less than what could be made as an associate, since you wouldn't have a choice? They'd make every excuse possible to pay the bare minimum they could get away with, plus interest would be accruing without payments being made for another year.

 

[Biffster]

I don't have a strong opinion on this. I'm closer to retirement than I am to my dental school years. But what is being discussed is basically a PGY1 year. I assume they would pay you at most what a PGY1 in AEGD or GPR gets paid now but I doubt they would charge tuition.

Spend a minute doing an internet search on this topic and you will quickly figure out what the debate looks like and who is advocating for what.

Dental school in three years? I agree UOP seems to do a decent job with this. Again, I don't have a strong opinion. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is a growing contingent pushing for med school to go to 3 years (there are a lot of these programs out there already) while almost nobody is seriously suggesting all dental schools go to a 3 year curriculum.

 

[gyngyn]

(do DO schools still allow for grade replacement?).

For the record, no.

 

[2TH MVR]

I seem to recall there was a push for ALL Ortho residencies to be 3 year programs. 2 years was more than enough for me lol.

 

[321931]

I think if it was mandatory it would just be a de facto D5 though, even if you were paid, wouldn't it likely be less than what could be made as an associate, since you wouldn't have a choice? They'd make every excuse possible to pay the bare minimum they could get away with, plus interest would be accruing without payments being made for another year.

Considering how medical residents are treated as cheap labor 80 hour weeks with salary (they make less then minimum wage), I am not for residency. It will probably be exploited.

Plus for the price tag of 500k tuition- you would think that dental students are paying ENOUGH money to get competant. Apparently those suggesting another year of residency... why not train everything in 4 years with that price tag. Just makes no sense.

Anyways, probably won't happen- so I'll get off my high stool.

 

[SLC]

Are the basic sciences classes in medical school more in depth? Probably. But med students spend pretty much all of their time and energy just preparing for exams. They don't have to spend time in the preclinical lab developing the hand skills necessary to do start working on patients as a second year student. It's a different animal.

Med students absolutely do spend time in lab learning hands-on skills; where do you think we learn all the complicated elements of a comprehensive physical exam? At my school we had the class for a half day, every week, for both of the first two years. I also learned OMM, which is an entire treatment modality that’s 100% based on manual dexterity. And was also a half day per week of lecture and skills lab, for the first two years.

You seem very caught up in comparing dental and Med and trying to prove something about the relative “difficulty” of each. What are you trying to prove? Because from where I sit, you just come off as a little insecure.

 

[2TH MVR]

After my last digital prostate exam.... I'm starting to wonder about those hand skills.

 

[setdoc7]

I work in a large urban med center (GPR Director). Surrounded by MD's all day. Never heard the a condescending remark. We are all in it together, and we do what we have to do. Besides, the truth is, nurses run the hospital. And no one wants to be on the bad side of the Nursing Department.....or the Dental Department if they develop a toothache at work.

 

[Biffster]

Med students absolutely do spend time in lab learning hands-on skills; where do you think we learn all the complicated elements of a comprehensive physical exam? At my school we had the class for a half day, every week, for both of the first two years. I also learned OMM, which is an entire treatment modality that’s 100% based on manual dexterity. And was also a half day per week of lecture and skills lab, for the first two years.

You seem very caught up in comparing dental and Med and trying to prove something about the relative “difficulty” of each. What are you trying to prove? Because from where I sit, you just come off as a little insecure.

I'm only caught up in this to the extent that I'm posting a few random thoughts on this message board. When I talk about hand skills I don't mean just doing things with your hands. In dentistry you have to learn to work in tiny spaces within tolerances of tenths of millimeters doing irreversible procedures. You learn to create and recreate things with your hands in exacting detail. That's very different from palpating an abdomen or doing a patellar reflex test. That's all I'm saying. I plead ignorance on the topic of OMM, but I would suggest it is very different from the type of hand skills a dentist has to master. In a physical exam you are learning what to do and what to look for etc. Dentists have to learn very fine motor skills. It's different. It's much more similar to what a surgeon does when working on delicate tissues.

I'm responding to what has been written here in this message board. Don't get riled up about it. It's just a conversation from differing points of view. But the fact that you are attempting to equate learning to do a physical exam with the fine motor skills dental students have to learn makes my argument for me. Whether I come off as insecure to you or not makes no difference to me or to the points I'm making. Making personal jabs is generally a sign you are losing the argument on the merits.

 

[Biffster]

I only check these boards for fun every several months or so. I don't want to stir up any hornets nests. There are times when I think someone has to stand up for dentists, just as every profession needs advocates from time to time.

I have nothing but respect for the medical profession and what they do to take care of very sick and dying people. I want them to be great at what they do and to provide the best care possible to every patient (especially my family!). I do believe physicians have little understanding of exactly what goes into training a dentist and what dentists and dental specialists do. I'm not a young person. I've been around for a while. This is based on interactions with physicians in a variety of circumstances, not the least of which are the interactions I have with some of my closest friends who are physicians. There have been many occasions when I've had to help them understand some pretty basic concepts about dentistry. It's been humorous at times. My only beef is with those who pass judgement on the profession of dentistry without having any real basis for those judgements.

 

[JimBrown]

There's no shame in accepting that Dentistry is below General Medicine in the pecking order, it caters to a different type of personality; sure some people who didn't get into Med school would go into dentistry, but a large number also get into it for personal reasons, passion, family relative etc. or a big one, because they didn't want to go into Med school.

That being said you can always point out the technical skills needed to be a great dentist, in terms of hand skills, depth perception, accuracy etc; which few MDs would have (besides plastic/micro surgery probably).

Yes! you are right I totally agree and satisfied with your answer.

 

[aggie-master]

Might be too silly of a question but was genuinely wondering if I am the only one experiencing this or if it's a common thing lol.
A lot of people I meet and those who are in my life are in medicine. I am often faced with a lot of condescending comments and questions. I was asked last week if dental boards are "actually hard?". How do you guys deal with comments and questions that are condescending from those who are in medicine?

Give Zero Fs about it.

Also, I think med school and residency is probably a lot harder to get through than dental school and I would bet money that their board tests are more difficult. I could have gone to med school but wanted to be a dentist because of the hours and money you could make in those hours and only four years of training. We also have less stress to deal with because we are much less likely to kill someone if a procedure doesn’t go well or we make a mistake.

I work about 32 hours per week and make almost $200 an hour. I don’t care for prestige or anything like that. I just want to be able to have lots of free time with my family and live the lifestyle we want to live which takes $$$. I would be a janitor or a ditch digger or a lawnmower if I could do that and make the kind of money I make in dentistry.

 

[Life of Pablo]

Can we all just agree orthodontists have the best life style? Work 3 days a week, golf for 2.

 

[2TH MVR]

Can we all just agree orthodontists have the best life style? Work 3 days a week, golf for 2.

That golf swing is hideous. Too much lateral sway.

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

^ Interesting viewpoints, mixed in with random OMFS bashing for whatever reason.

I do agree it's worth noting that DO schools are easier to gain acceptance to, compared to dental schools.

I would hope that it's clear to most that my OMFS critiques contained a strong tongue-in-cheek element (i.e. there may have been the slightest hint of sarcasm when I said that they can't match up to a Botswanan community college grad). I'm making fun of the strict tiering of the medical world as a whole; if you allow the mindset of academia to consume you, a lot of very silly things become "common sense", most of which have to do with ego. There are tons of talented and hard-working people in the medical world, and the omfsers are right there with the best of them.

On the other hand, if by OMFS bashing, you were referring to the comment regarding the couple of troglodytes who patrol SDN, pop up in every other thread to bash the abilities of GPs/Perio, and only ever say positive things about other dentists in a patronizing way... things like "GPs are great and helpful members of the dental team - at least as long as they stay in their lane, never attempt to learn any procedure we do, even with a strong GPR, and remember who is the top dog in the dental world doing actual important/difficult work"...

That stands exactly as written. Those guys are like five year olds. There are only 4-5 of them at most, but they are like the heroin dealers of SDN dental in that they bring the value of the whole neighborhood down.

 

[2TH MVR]

I would hope that it's clear to most that my OMFS critiques contained a strong tongue-in-cheek element (i.e. there may have been the slightest hint of sarcasm when I said that they can't match up to a Botswanan community college grad). I'm making fun of the strict tiering of the medical world as a whole; if you allow the mindset of academia to consume you, a lot of very silly things become "common sense", most of which have to do with ego. There are tons of talented and hard-working people in the medical world, and the omfsers are right there with the best of them.

On the other hand, if by OMFS bashing, you were referring to the comment regarding the couple of troglodytes who patrol SDN, pop up in every other thread to bash the abilities of GPs/Perio, and only ever say positive things about other dentists in a patronizing way... things like "GPs are great and helpful members of the dental team - at least as long as they stay in their lane, never attempt to learn any procedure we do, even with a strong GPR, and remember who is the top dog in the dental world doing actual important/difficult work"...

That stands exactly as written. Those guys are like five year olds. There are only 4-5 of them at most, but they are like the heroin dealers of SDN dental in that they bring the value of the whole neighborhood down.

It all evens out in the real world. The OMFS guys need to rely on referrals from EVERYONE. Even us lowly orthodontists lol. I actually liked the OMFS because they were the only dentists that sent me xmas goodies, lunch meetings and took care of me for my referrals ( Wizzies, button/chains on impacted cuspids, TADS, etc.). One of my best friends was my go to OMFS. He got all of my referrals except for orthognathic cases ( he did not want them ..... and I don't blame him). Took care of my kid's wizzies and was ALWAYS available for radiographic consults (help with reading cone beams .... I suck at it).

The academic world tends to bring out the brashness of what is considered the top dog of specialties, but the playing field evens out in the real world with most specialists sucking up to the GPs.

 

[TanMan]

I would hope that it's clear to most that my OMFS critiques contained a strong tongue-in-cheek element (i.e. there may have been the slightest hint of sarcasm when I said that they can't match up to a Botswanan community college grad). I'm making fun of the strict tiering of the medical world as a whole; if you allow the mindset of academia to consume you, a lot of very silly things become "common sense", most of which have to do with ego. There are tons of talented and hard-working people in the medical world, and the omfsers are right there with the best of them.

On the other hand, if by OMFS bashing, you were referring to the comment regarding the couple of troglodytes who patrol SDN, pop up in every other thread to bash the abilities of GPs/Perio, and only ever say positive things about other dentists in a patronizing way... things like "GPs are great and helpful members of the dental team - at least as long as they stay in their lane, never attempt to learn any procedure we do, even with a strong GPR, and remember who is the top dog in the dental world doing actual important/difficult work"...

That stands exactly as written. Those guys are like five year olds. There are only 4-5 of them at most, but they are like the heroin dealers of SDN dental in that they bring the value of the whole neighborhood down.

Sadly, you meet some of those specialists IRL too. Thankfully, I don't work with any of them.

It all evens out in the real world. The OMFS guys need to rely on referrals from EVERYONE. Even us lowly orthodontists lol. I actually liked the OMFS because they were the only dentists that sent me xmas goodies, lunch meetings and took care of me for my referrals ( Wizzies, button/chains on impacted cuspids, TADS, etc.). One of my best friends was my go to OMFS. He got all of my referrals except for orthognathic cases ( he did not want them ..... and I don't blame him). Took care of my kid's wizzies and was ALWAYS available for radiographic consults (help with reading cone beams .... I suck at it).

The academic world tends to bring out the brashness of what is considered the top dog of specialties, but the playing field evens out in the real world with most specialists sucking up to the GPs.

Haha, yes. Specialists tend to be really nice when they want referrals. As long as they extend that niceness to the patients, do things well, and don't throw me under the bus for any reason, specialists will always get my referrals. Unfortunately, it's hard to find that combination in a specialist consistently. You hear all sorts of things from patients when you get them back, and in business, those specialists are an extension of your practice. If you want to get your patient back, you send them to the ones that meet the 3 criterias above.

I remember one OS that I stopped sending patients to because he was extremely profane when the patient was supposedly "sedated" and had multiple reports of this profanity. Another OS threw me under the bus a long time ago when I still did dentures, blaming me because he had to go in a second time for preprosthetic surgery after my referral requested for full mouth ext and preprosthetic surgery (with bone reduction guide provided) and telling the patient to see another GP practice that he happened to work at PT and tried to bill me for it. Never would I send my patients to that guy, and although it would be easy to badmouth him to other patients, I'll only send patients to him that have had a preexisting relationship and liked him.

Some cases call for a multidisciplinary approach and I usually end up sending them to a prosth/ortho to quarterback the whole case.

To specialists: All you gotta do is 3 things (with an optional 4th)...
1. Be nice to me, my staff, AND patients
2. Do things at a clinically acceptable level. If I have to cover for you due to inconsistently bad work, it generates more work for me and increases potential failure for both of us... and it goes both ways.
3. Don't ever throw me under the bus for any reason.
4. Free food and gifts are greatly appreciated. My staff appreciates lots of free food and always send lots of extra food. DA's can eat a lot. I remember one time a specialist sent over 10 boxes of pizza + a bunch of wings. I never even got to see the food. It was all gone and the only reason I knew is because my OM told me and empty boxes/smell of pizza/wings in the office. A good rule of thumb is one box of pizza per staff member.

 

[321931]

As a specialist- you will never survive if you are the "smartest" but have a terrible relationship with your referrals.

In past 3 years, I have dropped a Perio/Endo from my referral list. Contrary to popular belief that the specialist are unique and rare....there are 5 other options within Endo, 4 other options for Perio, OMFS- 3 other options, Ortho- 5 options, Pedo...man theres like 10 options. All this within 5-10 mile radius.

So what I'm saying is that having a good specialist/gp relationship is super important- because there are other options out there to refer to.

 

[Life of Pablo]

4. Free food and gifts are greatly appreciated. My staff appreciates lots of free food and always send lots of extra food. DA's can eat a lot. I remember one time a specialist sent over 10 boxes of pizza + a bunch of wings. I never even got to see the food. It was all gone and the only reason I knew is because my OM told me and empty boxes/smell of pizza/wings in the office. A good rule of thumb is one box of pizza per staff member.

LOL

 

[TanMan]

LOL

Yea, it's like feeding a family. They can go through 1-2 cases of monsters and 48 pack of snickers bars in a week... Snack budget is through the roof just so they can keep working fast and efficiently. They consistently want monsters and some variation of candy/snacks for the week. Like kids, they want me to switch up the candies every week.

 

[Educated ConsumeRX]

Maybe, you are not around the right kind of people.

Good people will not make fun of your career and make you feel less.

Not all those who smile to you are really your friends, if they make you feel bad about dentistry, it is time to stop being acquainted with them unless you really really have to!

But anyway, I find it here as well, some people make fun of Pharmacy schools sometimes, we should stop making ourselves feel superior by making fun of others.

This. Exactly this. Such people who would even bring up such things in a conversation; simply are uncouth.... you deal with them, merely how you’d deal with any other individual with zero class, tact and a general lack of moral integrity...

 

[Middle Age DDS]

This is a question maybe I would have in dental school. The reality is there is so much mutual respect. I have tons of friends and patients that are physicians. It just never comes up. The pros and cons of both professions has been brought up ad nauseum. I suppose if I went looking to create a antagonistic discussion with a physician I could find one. But they deserve a ton of credit for the sacrifices they made. IF you carry yourself as a professional and treat others kindly, there just isn't an issue.


I think the last 15 years or so have been wonderful for dentistry. I am not bullish on the future with for profit school cranking out graduates, dentists gladly accepting ppo's, and tuition going through the roof. So I am not telling my kids to go into dentistry, although one seems like she wants it anyway. Sure there will always be room for a caring, skilled clinician with excellent communication skills.

 

[bigstix808]

Might be too silly of a question but was genuinely wondering if I am the only one experiencing this or if it's a common thing lol.
A lot of people I meet and those who are in my life are in medicine. I am often faced with a lot of condescending comments and questions. I was asked last week if dental boards are "actually hard?". How do you guys deal with comments and questions that are condescending from those who are in medicine?

just don't associate with those folks. no one in the real world cares. if they do, its ego and not worth my time. i treat plenty of MD's from all aspects of medicine. im friends with a few of them and when we all hang out, we literally might spend one minute talking dental/medicine, unless someone else non medical brings it up.

funny story though, when i was in dental school on OS rotation, our white coats were longer than the med students when in the hospital. classmate of mine were going up to round on the elevator and a few med students walked in. a small chuckle, and snide remark by one of them, "teeth!?! in the hospital??" my only comeback was, "yea, imagine that". those are the ignorant pricks that think MD's are superior and will likely get their ass handed to them if lucky enough to get to residency.