How hard is it to find PSLF eligible jobs out of residency?

[AlvinKamara]

I’ll be graduating with a high debt burden. Considering whether I should start paying off my monthly loan interest, or if I shouldn’t bother at all and just work at a VA or something after residency and get loans forgiven. I know EM is generally unfriendly in terms of getting nonprofit gigs but just wanted to get a lay of the landscape. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted709753]

Interested as well. I didn't know EM qualified for PSLF. Isn't PSLF 10 years though? In a good paying specialty like EM, why not pay it off aggressively in 3-5 years?

 

[deleted245139]

The real question is - will it even matter....

 

[enalli]

I never actually ran through real numbers, but depending on your debt, the pay decrease that you would likely get for working at a non-profit (VAs, academic hospitals, non-profit hospitals) may not make PSLF worth it. This isn't even accounting for the fact that PSLF may not deliver for people like us. I thought the whole thing was too risky, so I decided to just refinance my loans and pay them off.

 

[AlvinKamara]

Interested as well. I didn't know EM qualified for PSLF. Isn't PSLF 10 years though? In a good paying specialty like EM, why not pay it off aggressively in 3-5 years?

If residency counts for 3-4 of the years and I end up pursuing a fellowship, it’d only be a 5 year investment.

Plus the experts I’ve spoken to have all said SPLF is a safe bet for those who took their loans while splf was still active.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Tenk]

My opinion: whenever you are finally eligible for PSLF it will either not exist or pay off a neglible amount of your loans as this program was not designed for doctors. In just a few months I will have paid off about $400,000 in debt and I am a PGY-7. Just refinance, pay it off, and enjoy the rest of your career without gambling on the government.

 

[SXMMD]

If residency counts for 3-4 of the years and I end up pursuing a fellowship, it’d only be a 5 year investment.

Plus the experts I’ve spoken to have all said SPLF is a safe bet for those who took their loans while splf was still active.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Look into it some more. It was supposed to dtart paying out in 2017. What percent of eligible professionals got loan forgiveness? Not many...

Unsettled debate over impact of Public Service Loan Forgiveness

 

[zurned]

Not worth it. I think it's a huge pay cut vs. what you can make in most areas of the country. Also, you are basically forced to go through with it for 10 years with no flexibility as far as living where you want, working the job that you want, etc...

With a job that pays 400k, you can probably pay off whatever debt you have in 2 years. 150k a year of loan payback is easy as long as you hold off on making any huge purchases.

 

[EMdoc10]

What's the recommended calculator to run #s & assess if PSLF is the right choice?

 

[deleted480308]

What's the recommended calculator to run #s & assess if PSLF is the right choice?

It costs like $250-500 but doctors without quarters is a company that basically does just that for you

 

[miacomet]

I’ll be graduating with a high debt burden. Considering whether I should start paying off my monthly loan interest, or if I shouldn’t bother at all and just work at a VA or something after residency and get loans forgiven. I know EM is generally unfriendly in terms of getting nonprofit gigs but just wanted to get a lay of the landscape. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Kaiser and any academic or employed job is PSLF eligible. There are plenty of options, but have at a CMG of that's your thing.

 

[miacomet]

Interested as well. I didn't know EM qualified for PSLF. Isn't PSLF 10 years though? In a good paying specialty like EM, why not pay it off aggressively in 3-5 years?

Why or how would EM impact eligibility?

 

[deleted709753]

Why or how would EM impact eligibility?

I thought only primary care specialties were eligible for PSLF. Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else.

 

[deleted480308]

I thought only primary care specialties were eligible for PSLF. Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else.

That’s nhsc

 

[EctopicFetus]

There is a slew of compliance stuff you have to do for PSLF and few have done it. I read a few articles on this. In the end good luck cause there will be a handful of people who get it but the majority will be at terrible low paying jobs for 5+ years and end up screwed. The government is never the answer to your problems.

 

[KGflyboy]

Kaiser and any academic or employed job is PSLF eligible. There are plenty of options, but have at a CMG of that's your thing.

There are several employed jobs that do NOT qualify. CMGs who employ docs won't qualify. For profit hospitals that employ docs won't qualify.

 

[RoyBasch]

I never actually ran through real numbers, but depending on your debt, the pay decrease that you would likely get for working at a non-profit (VAs, academic hospitals, non-profit hospitals) may not make PSLF worth it. This isn't even accounting for the fact that PSLF may not deliver for people like us. I thought the whole thing was too risky, so I decided to just refinance my loans and pay them off.

I did run the real numbers and I agree entirely with your sentiment. The loans saving is not offset by the superior income of corporate/small group private practice compared to academic/VA/PSLF jobs in EM currently.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Yeah just aggressively pay off your loans. Live off $100k/year in expenses for 3 years. Pay off your loans quickly. Aggressively save for retirement. The worst thing you can do financially is live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much you make. Pay down debt quickly. Invest a ton of money. Retire early.

 

[RoyBasch]

Yeah just aggressively pay off your loans. Live off $100k/year in expenses for 3 years. Pay off your loans quickly. Aggressively save for retirement. The worst thing you can do financially is live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much you make. Pay down debt quickly. Invest a ton of money. Retire early.

I agree but easier said than done!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I agree but easier said than done!

Not necessarily. I went the military route, so I had no loans. But my first 4 years out of residency, I made just over 100K. I lived just fine. Many of my recent grads have taken this approach and have aggressively paid their loans off in a short amount of time. It can be done.

 

[EMdoc10]

Yeah just aggressively pay off your loans. Live off $100k/year in expenses for 3 years. Pay off your loans quickly. Aggressively save for retirement. The worst thing you can do financially is live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much you make. Pay down debt quickly. Invest a ton of money. Retire early.

True. However if PSLF works, it's a better deal than aggressively paying off (close to 300k) loans. Are those who qualify based on post-residency job (granted you didn't choose it solely for PSLF) still trusting the process?

My understanding is most of PSLF failure last year was due to applicants not knowing which loans qualify, didn't keep up with employer certifications, etc. Those few that documented well and qualified has success. Hopefully there will be less hiccups in coming years.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

True. However if PSLF works, it's a better deal than aggressively paying off (close to 300k) loans.

Sure, it may have you pay less for the life of the loan. If it works. But it also may lead to you paying way more over the life of your loan as well, because if something does fall through, or congress caps the amount paid out, or you take a job that doesn't qualify, then you made a huge financial mistake. I don't see why people would consider it when paying off the loans in 4 years isn't that difficult at our salaries. Even if the job you take out of residency qualifies, it doesn't mean the job you may want 3 years later will. Or the job 2 years after that. The average ED doc doesn't stay at one hospital for 10 years at a time. PSLF limits your job options both when you get out, and if you switch jobs. Paying off the loans in four years is very doable and the PSLF is to me a risk that may not be there, could potentially limit options of where you want to work, and could potentially cause you to pay way more money over the life of the loan. I just don't think its worth it the hassle or the risk.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

EM is a high paying specialty. You shouldn't be choosing a job based on it's PSLF eligibility. If you truly love academics then you should do academics, and likely PSLF will be a byproduct of that. If not, you should choose a high paying job and refinance and pay off your loans.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

PSLF still means you get hit by a tax bomb even after doing all the requirements.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

I hate this program because forgiving student loans for doctors is ridiculous (except for maybe ultra low salary positions like MSF or active military or IHS), but there’s no tax bomb with PSLF.

PSLF still means you get hit by a tax bomb even after doing all the requirements.

 

[sylvanthus]

PSLF still means you get hit by a tax bomb even after doing all the requirements.

Negative, no tax if doing PSLF.

"Are loan amounts forgiven under PSLF considered taxable by the IRS?
No. According to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), student loan amounts forgiven under PSLF are not considered income for tax purposes. For more information, check with the IRS or a tax advisor."

 

[miacomet]

It's not hard in areas with lots of employed jobs (Cali, NYC, Boston, Chicago) with large not-for-profit health systems. It's considerably harder in areas with CMG encroachment. The hardest thing is making sure you actually get PSLF.

 

[sylvanthus]

It's not hard in areas with lots of employed jobs (Cali, NYC, Boston, Chicago) with large not-for-profit health systems. It's considerably harder in areas with CMG encroachment. The hardest thing is making sure you actually get PSLF.

I wouldn't be all that surprised if the program fell through or was capped. Having said that though, Ive done 6 years already in residency/fellowship, so may as well bank on it, while simultaneously saving enough cash/liquid assets on the side. If the program works, awesome, I just saved myself 400k, if it falls through, I blew a few years of interest but can pay it off the moment I realize the program is gone. I think that is a reasonable plan. For those doing a 3 year residency, it seems it would make more sense to just pay it off ASAP.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if the program fell through or was capped. Having said that though, Ive done 6 years already in residency/fellowship, so may as well bank on it, while simultaneously saving enough cash/liquid assets on the side. If the program works, awesome, I just saved myself 400k, if it falls through, I blew a few years of interest but can pay it off the moment I realize the program is gone. I think that is a reasonable plan. For those doing a 3 year residency, it seems it would make more sense to just pay it off ASAP.

This is, without a doubt, the best plan if you are going to take advantage of PSLF.