How has the relative competitiveness of specialties changed over time?

[Cyberdyne 101]

It sure is/was. I just hope that most med schools know this fact and take it into account when evaluating a WUSTL student/alum's application.

I understand that anxiety usually accompanies the med school app process, but you should be more relaxed than most applicants. They will certainly take your program's rigor into account.

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[DubVille]

Well it's process of elimination for me, really:
1. I want to be a doctor because I want to help people.
2. I want to be a surgeon because I thrive under stress and want to help people in an impactful way
3. The nervous system is the only thing interesting enough for me worth sacrificing so much of my life to learn to operate on
Therefore, I want to be a neurosurgeon. Makes sense, yes?

You seem to have the makings of a neurosurgeon to me.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

This thread is not going well. High school guy, get the hell out of here mate. Go study for the SATs or AP classes, whatever I was doing in high school -- honestly I can't remember.

 

[Euxox]

So are you suggesting I shouldn't gun for neurosurgery?

To be a neurosurgeon, you have to 1.) get into a decent college 2.) get a good GPA 3.) do well on the MCAT 4.) get into med school 5.) ace the Step 1, and 6.) honor most of your clerkships. As of now, you've done none of these things. What is that thing they say about counting eggs? What are you going to do if you get a 220 Step 1 score after 8 years of working obsessively towards being a neurosurgeon?

From my youthful and uneducated observations, it seems like a good field if you know where to head after residency. Like the neurosurgeon in my town, Dr. Dorman, is only on-call one week out of the month, he works from 5 AM to 5 PM almost every day, and he actually sees his kids and has a good family life!!! He told me that it's only the ones in the huge regional centers that work like hell everyday. (I live in a town of 150,000, by the way) Your thoughts, mate? Is this an irregularity? Is it worth the sacrifice?

Your idea of a good lifestyle is waking up at 4 AM every day and working for twelve hours?

 

[deleted407021]

Lol, we've gone over this, broseph. Read ALL of the conversation first before making your mundane observations.

lol u mad?



One of the reasons we're dogging you is because you're a high schooler. You're not really supposed to be starting threads here, just like we don't start threads in the MD/DO student forums, and they don't start threads in the resident/attending forums. However, members who occupy a strata above other forums are free to move about them as they please. There's a sort of backward compatibility thing; a rank structure that most members adhere to, but when a kid such as yourself comes along and breaks that structure (and goes on about how you know you want to go into NS), jimmies get rustled.

Here, check this out: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/hsdn.420/
It's the high school forum. You should get a better reception there and plenty of premeds, medical students and physicians hang out there to help y'all out. That is were you truly belong.

Good luck, mate. Now beat it.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I reiterate that I'm not trying to be a dick. I just don't want you making the biggest mistake of your life because of false presumptions.

Lol... Neurosurgery? Biggest mistake in his/her life? The kid in not even in college yet...

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Forget it...

Running Down a Dream is one of my favorite Tom Petty songs.

 

[Mad Jack]

Lol... Neurosurgery? Biggest mistake in his/her life? The kid in not even in college yet...

Oh but they've already planned out 8 years of suffering post HS. I'm trying to slap some sense in before this little one gets even more delusional.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Oh but they've already planned out 8 years of suffering post HS. I'm trying to slap some sense in before this little one gets even more delusional.

I know... The kid does not even know what is waiting for him in college--let alone med school...

 

[Peskywabbit505]

You seem to have the makings of a neurosurgeon to me.

Thanks sir, I really appreciate the encouragement! That's kinda what I needed to hear!

 

[DubVille]

Thanks sir, I really appreciate the encouragement! That's kinda what I needed to hear!

It was sarcasm really, since you said it was the only thing worthy of your time and neurosurgeons tend to be arrogant. I think others are being a bit harsh, and I remember considering neurosurgery back before I started the process. It may be wise in the future to say things along the lines of neurosurgery seems cool, as opposed to saying it is the only thing in life you can see yourself doing. It is fine to dream, but focus on the next step as others have said. For all you know you may end up an artist, engineer, college dropout, kept man, or maybe a doctor of some kind (hell maybe even a neurosurgeon).

 

[Peskywabbit505]

It was sarcasm really, since you said it was the only thing worthy of your time and neurosurgeons tend to be arrogant. I think others are being a bit harsh, and I remember considering neurosurgery back before I started the process. It may be wise in the future to say things along the lines of neurosurgery seems cool, as opposed to saying it is the only thing in life you can see yourself doing. It is fine to dream, but focus on the next step as others have said. For all you know you may end up an artist, engineer, college dropout, kept man, or maybe a doctor of some kind (hell maybe even a neurosurgeon).

Yeah, I understand. I've heard the joke," How many neurosurgeons does it take to change a lightbulb? One. He holds it still whilst the world revolves around him!". And my reason for being so resolute in my decision is that I want to throw my spear of determination and ambition at something that I think will give me satisfaction and purpose in life. It may change, and I realize that. But like I said before, right now I'm focusing on the steps it takes to get to that golden summit. So I'm taking it one step at a time, don't worry; I'm just in the process of finding out the plan for my life further down the road. But thanks for the encouragement and advice, mate. I really appreciate it!!!

 

[Peskywabbit505]

To be a neurosurgeon, you have to 1.) get into a decent college 2.) get a good GPA 3.) do well on the MCAT 4.) get into med school 5.) ace the Step 1, and 6.) honor most of your clerkships. As of now, you've done none of these things. What is that thing they say about counting eggs? What are you going to do if you get a 220 Step 1 score after 8 years of working obsessively towards being a neurosurgeon?


Your idea of a good lifestyle is waking up at 4 AM every day and working for twelve hours?

I'd rather not think of that possibility.. you see, if I give my all in everything I do academically, I can be whatever I damn well please;...even a neurosurgeon. I like to use the saying used by the mother of Dr. Ben Carson (a neurosurgeon
, ironically enough): "You are in charge of your own ship. You can pilot it to fair waters or you can crash it on the rocks; but no matter what the outcome, you have only yourself to blame". So that's kinda the philosophy I have towards this monster before me.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I'd rather not think of that possibility.. you see, if I give my all in everything I do academically, I can be whatever I damn well please;...even a neurosurgeon. I like to use the saying used by the mother of Dr. Ben Carson (a neurosurgeon
, ironically enough): "You are in charge of your own ship. You can pilot it to fair waters or you can crash it on the rocks; but no matter what the outcome, you have only yourself to blame". So that's kinda the philosophy I have towards this monster before me.

You HAVE to think about that possibility. Don't be so damn stubborn that you think that worst case scenario won't ever happen to you. Because it CAN. Also, just because you put in a lot of hard work doesn't mean you're gonna get the results you want. As a college premed, you're gonna have to take classes with 300+ other premeds and the curve will be harsh. There will come a time when you "give your all academically" and still not get a good grade or FAIL. Why don't you get your head out of your ass and actually start taking the rest of us in this thread seriously, especially those who are at a higher level than me like @Mad Jack? Always have a backup plan. It's better to be prepared for the worst than to put all your eggs in one basket.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'd rather not think of that possibility.. you see, if I give my all in everything I do academically, I can be whatever I damn well please;...even a neurosurgeon. I like to use the saying used by the mother of Dr. Ben Carson (a neurosurgeon
, ironically enough): "You are in charge of your own ship. You can pilot it to fair waters or you can crash it on the rocks; but no matter what the outcome, you have only yourself to blame". So that's kinda the philosophy I have towards this monster before me.

We must have had different books as kids.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Post from pre meds and HS students are best made in the pre me and hSDN forums where others can come and address concerns specific to that user.

However I would ask that users not let their frustration get the best of them and avoid being cruel to our younger users.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

You HAVE to think about that possibility. Don't be so damn stubborn that you think that worst case scenario won't ever happen to you. Because it CAN. Also, just because you put in a lot of hard work doesn't mean you're gonna get the results you want. As a college premed, you're gonna have to take classes with 300+ other premeds and the curve will be harsh. There will come a time when you "give your all academically" and still not get a good grade or FAIL. Why don't you get your head out of your ass and actually start taking the rest of us in this thread seriously, especially those who are at a higher level than me like @Mad Jack? Always have a backup plan. It's better to be prepared for the worst than to put all your eggs in one basket.

I don't think I'm putting all my eggs in one basket; I'm planning on earning a degree in biomedical engineering before I apply to med school, so that's some Plan B insurance right? I just don't want it to feel like I'm giving myself an out.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

We must have had different books as kids.

Lol, that's pretty depressing! But I have a question: do you think that ANY of the existing neurosurgeons on this good green earth had that mindset throughout the process of getting to where they are? Surely not! They kept the mindset that they have no limits, that anything is possible, and that they WILL reach their goal. Like Dr. Dorman told me before I left his office, it is impossible to be a maverick or anywhere near the top of the medical ladder without believing that it is in fact possible that it can happen.

 

[Mad Jack]

Lol, that's pretty depressing! But I have a question: do you think that ANY of the existing neurosurgeons on this good green earth had that mindset throughout the process of getting to where they are? Surely not! They kept the mindset that they have no limits, that anything is possible, and that they WILL reach their goal. Like Dr. Dorman told me before I left his office, it is impossible to be a maverick or anywhere near the top of the medical ladder without believing that it is in fact possible that it can happen.

Cautious optimism is ideal in the process of becoming a physician. Blind optimism leads to poor choices and depression should things not pan out. We're not saying don't go for your dreams or that they are impossible, merely that you should be more realistic in your analysis of your situation, knowledge, and capabilities.

The premeds that I met Over the years that didn't make it were usually the blind optimist types. "I'm going to be a dermatologist." "I'm going to go to HMS." "I'm going to get a 40 on my MCAT." Kid 1 fails organic, retakes for a D, gives up. Kid 2 gives up in physics II, tiring of the constant churning out of labs while his friends are enjoying life. Kid 3 scores a 17 on their MCAT because they weren't able to function under the pressure of the exam, despite their As in every prereq and solid understanding of the material.

The ones I know that did the best were the ones who were always just a little bit unsure of themselves. The ones that put in an extra hour of studying at night because they never felt they knew things quite well enough. The ones that started off worrying if they'd even get into any med school, that worked their butts off and found they had top-tier stats at the end of the day and ended up with multiple acceptances in hand. When they'd stumble, they'd lower their expectations, and when they succeeded, they'd adjust accordingly. Idealism and optimism alone can't get you through this mess. You need a realistic eye, some serious perseverance, thick skin, and a good dose of skepticism to keep on the right track year after year.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

Why don't you get your head out of your ass and actually start taking the rest of us in this thread seriously, especially those who are at a higher level than me like @Mad Jack? Always have a backup plan. It's better to be prepared for the worst than to put all your eggs in one basket.

And I DO take all you lovely peoples advice seriously! You guys know far more than me about this particular subject and that's the whole damn reason why I came here in the first place! But when I stop listening is when you guys insist that it's not realistic and it's not possible.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

Cautious optimism is ideal in the process of becoming a physician. Blind optimism leads to poor choices and depression should things not pan out. We're not saying don't go for your dreams or that they are impossible, merely that you should be more realistic in your analysis of your situation, knowledge, and capabilities.

The premeds that I met Over the years that didn't make it were usually the blind optimist types. "I'm going to be a dermatologist." "I'm going to go to HMS." "I'm going to get a 40 on my MCAT." Kid 1 fails organic, retakes for a D, gives up. Kid 2 gives up in physics II, tiring of the constant churning out of labs while his friends are enjoying life. Kid 3 scores a 17 on their MCAT because they weren't able to function under the pressure of the exam, despite their As in every prereq and solid understanding of the material.

The ones I know that did the best were the ones who were always just a little bit unsure of themselves. The ones that put in an extra hour of studying at night because they never felt they knew things quite well enough. The ones that started off worrying if they'd even get into any med school, that worked their butts off and found they had top-tier stats at the end of the day and ended up with multiple acceptances in hand. When they'd stumble, they'd lower their expectations, and when they succeeded, they'd adjust accordingly. Idealism and optimism alone can't get you through this mess. You need a realistic eye, some serious perseverance, thick skin, and a good dose of skepticism to keep on the right track year after year.

There we go! That's some top notch advice! Sorry, I just interpreted that book as a "don't go for it" kinda thing.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

Cautious optimism is ideal in the process of becoming a physician. Blind optimism leads to poor choices and depression should things not pan out. We're not saying don't go for your dreams or that they are impossible, merely that you should be more realistic in your analysis of your situation, knowledge, and capabilities.

The premeds that I met Over the years that didn't make it were usually the blind optimist types. "I'm going to be a dermatologist." "I'm going to go to HMS." "I'm going to get a 40 on my MCAT." Kid 1 fails organic, retakes for a D, gives up. Kid 2 gives up in physics II, tiring of the constant churning out of labs while his friends are enjoying life. Kid 3 scores a 17 on their MCAT because they weren't able to function under the pressure of the exam, despite their As in every prereq and solid understanding of the material.

The ones I know that did the best were the ones who were always just a little bit unsure of themselves. The ones that put in an extra hour of studying at night because they never felt they knew things quite well enough. The ones that started off worrying if they'd even get into any med school, that worked their butts off and found they had top-tier stats at the end of the day and ended up with multiple acceptances in hand. When they'd stumble, they'd lower their expectations, and when they succeeded, they'd adjust accordingly. Idealism and optimism alone can't get you through this mess. You need a realistic eye, some serious perseverance, thick skin, and a good dose of skepticism to keep on the right track year after year.

And I am a little bit doubtful. You know the percentages! That's a small window of opportunity, mate... And on top of that I have to make it through engineering school! I am doubtful that it will all pan out the way I want, but I just know that it's possible...And that's all the confirmation I need to move forward.

 

[Mad Jack]

Ouch, engineering is a rough premed major. Good degree to have if things don't work out though. Good luck out there.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

Ouch, engineering is a rough premed major. Good degree to have if things don't work out though. Good luck out there.

I know it is, but from what I hear, med schools are really impressed if you go that route. And thanks for all your help, you too mate.

 

[Mad Jack]

I know it is, but from what I hear, med schools are really impressed if you go that route. And thanks for all your help, you too mate.

Less impressed than one might believe. You might want to ask LizzyM or goro about how adcoms feel about engineering majors. The general vibe I've gotten is you should do a major you enjoy because GPA and prereq grades matter more than anything. Like I said, it's not a bad major, and it gives you a great backup career. But it will likely hurt your competitiveness due to the downward pressure engineering tends to put on GPAs, so don't do it unless it's what you really want to.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

Less impressed than one might believe. You might want to ask LizzyM or goro about how adcoms feel about engineering majors. The general vibe I've gotten is you should do a major you enjoy because GPA and prereq grades matter more than anything. Like I said, it's not a bad major, and it gives you a great backup career. But it will likely hurt your competitiveness due to the downward pressure engineering tends to put on GPAs, so don't do it unless it's what you really want to.

Yeah, I gotcha. I mean, I'm interested in biomedical science and all but I was mainly doing it because I was under the impression that I would have a venomous edge over the competition. And I was talking to a buddy of mine, he went the engineering route and is starting his ortho residency this month, that engineering school is comparable to med school in terms of difficulty, so it'll prepare me for the beast, right?

 

[Euxox]

I was under the impression that I would have a venomous edge over the competition.

Absolutely not. Even in the best case scenario, which would be getting a 4.0 in a difficult engineering major, the advantage is pretty slight. On the other hand, if you end up with a 3.0 in engineering, you are SOL. Biomedical engineering is considered one of the least difficult engineering majors at most colleges, by the way, so I don't see a BME major being particularly impressive.

And I was talking to a buddy of mine, he went the engineering route and is starting his ortho residency this month, that engineering school is comparable to med school in terms of difficulty, so it'll prepare me for the beast, right?

Both engineering school and med school are difficult, but I've been told by several people who did the engineering to medicine route that they are two entirely different types of difficulty. Engineering is about understanding some pretty complicated mathematical concepts (vector calculus, differential equations, optimization, etc.) and knowing when and how to apply those tools to solve a specific problem. In med school, the concepts are not that difficult, but the volume of information is enormous.

 

[DermViser]

Absolutely not. Even in the best case scenario, which would be getting a 4.0 in a difficult engineering major, the advantage is pretty slight. On the other hand, if you end up with a 3.0 in engineering, you are SOL. Biomedical engineering is considered one of the least difficult engineering majors at most colleges, by the way, so I don't see a BME major being particularly impressive.

Both engineering school and med school are difficult, but I've been told by several people who did the engineering to medicine route that they are two entirely different types of difficulty. Engineering is about understanding some pretty complicated mathematical concepts (vector calculus, differential equations, optimization, etc.) and knowing when and how to apply those tools to solve a specific problem. In med school, the concepts are not that difficult, but the volume of information is enormous.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Absolutely not. Even in the best case scenario, which would be getting a 4.0 in a difficult engineering major, the advantage is pretty slight. On the other hand, if you end up with a 3.0 in engineering, you are SOL. Biomedical engineering is considered one of the least difficult engineering majors at most colleges, by the way, so I don't see a BME major being particularly impressive.


Both engineering school and med school are difficult, but I've been told by several people who did the engineering to medicine route that they are two entirely different types of difficulty. Engineering is about understanding some pretty complicated mathematical concepts (vector calculus, differential equations, optimization, etc.) and knowing when and how to apply those tools to solve a specific problem. In med school, the concepts are not that difficult, but the volume of information is enormous.

Totally agree with your second paragraph. As for your first, BME is the most difficult engineering major at WUSTL, if not the most difficult major we have, so there are exceptions.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Totally agree with your second paragraph. As for your first, BME is the most difficult engineering major at WUSTL, if not the most difficult major we have, so there are exceptions.

Do they make you read Tolstoy (in Russian) for intro English lit classes at Wash U?

 

[Lawpy]

Totally agree with your second paragraph. As for your first, BME is the most difficult engineering major at WUSTL, if not the most difficult major we have, so there are exceptions.

Really? I'd expect physics, electrical and mechanical to be a lot more harder than BME regardless of the institution.

 

[Euxox]

Really? I'd expect physics, electrical and mechanical to be a lot more harder than BME regardless of the institution.

I agree with @Ace Khalifa, things can vary a lot from school to school. WUSTL, JHU, Duke, UCSD, and a few others have BME programs that are known for emphasizing rigorous quantitative methods where other programs would say "eh, just approximate within an order of magnitude," and this makes their BME majors much more difficult than the average program. I'd place them on par with most electrical engineering programs.

On the whole though, BME does not have a reputation for rigor relative to other engineering majors.

 

[Lawpy]

I agree with @Ace Khalifa, things can vary a lot from school to school. WUSTL, JHU, Duke, and a few others have BME programs that are known for emphasizing rigorous quantitative methods where other programs would say "eh, just approximate within an order of magnitude," and this makes their much more difficult than the average program. I'd place them on par with most electrical engineering programs.

On the whole though, BME does not have a reputation for rigor relative to other engineering majors.

But from concepts, EE and MechE are generally more difficult due to their advanced topics they cover, out of scope for BME (Laplace/Fourier, fluids etc.) What the institution does is a different version of difficulty

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Do they make you read Tolstoy (in Russian) for intro English lit classes at Wash U?

I'm not sure? I only took Writing 1 (the class EVERYONE has to take regardless of major) and an upper level writing-intensive Writing course that was just a standard read crap, discuss in class, write essays.

 

[Euxox]

But from concepts, EE and MechE are generally more difficult due to their advanced topics they cover, out of scope for BME (Laplace/Fourier, fluids etc.) What the institution does is a different version of difficulty

BMEs use Laplace and Fourier at Wash U, MIT, and JHU.

Like I said, there are a select few BME programs that are willing to use rigorous mathematical methods where other programs would just hand wave the problem away with a crude estimate.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'm not sure? I only took Writing 1 (the class EVERYONE has to take regardless of major) and an upper level writing-intensive Writing course that was just a standard read crap, discuss in class, write essays.

Lol- poor attempt at a joke on my part. Obviously, they don't make you read Cyrillic text for (non-Russian) intro classes at Wash U. Or do they?!

 

[Lawpy]

BMEs use Laplace and Fourier at Wash U, MIT, and JHU.

Like I said, there are a select few BME programs that are willing to use rigorous mathematical methods where other programs would just hand wave the problem away with a crude estimate.

Wait for real? Next thing you'll say is BMEs at those universities will know signal analysis, complex analysis and some really advanced computational stuff...

Brb transferring to one of those universities as BME major

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Wait for real? Next thing you'll say is BMEs at those universities will know signal analysis, complex analysis and some really advanced computational stuff...

Brb transferring to one of those universities as BME major

I'm pretty sure all my BME friends had to learn stuff in all 3 of those categories. Problem sets were brutal, especially in the intro BME course (the one that always weeds out 50% of freshmen who start as BME) and Quantitative Physiology (QP - the orgo of BME).

 

[Lawpy]

http://pages.jh.edu/~bmesignals/

That looks like an EE course given by the BME department... but screw it, i'm transferring there. I found true love

 

[Arkangeloid]

@High School Dude:

You should be more concerned with getting Chelsea or Allison or whatever to go to Homecoming with you than with the specialty of your future. I'm serious. Hell, I'm an MS2 and I'm just now thinking about future specialties.


On the main topic:

Back in the "good old days," students used to be significantly less concerned with lifestyle. I think it's because physician pay, autonomy, and prestige were all better back then, so students were willing to work more hours to enjoy what was a "calling" back in the day. But medicine's gotten worse over the year, and med school costs are only rising. For better or worse, a lot of people see medicine as a job now, and lifestyle factors into that. At my medical school, Dermatology is bar none the most desired specialty, and some students I know look scornfully at people who place their lives secondary to their careers.

 

[DermViser]

Lol, that's pretty depressing! But I have a question: do you think that ANY of the existing neurosurgeons on this good green earth had that mindset throughout the process of getting to where they are? Surely not! They kept the mindset that they have no limits, that anything is possible, and that they WILL reach their goal. Like Dr. Dorman told me before I left his office, it is impossible to be a maverick or anywhere near the top of the medical ladder without believing that it is in fact possible that it can happen.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Cautious optimism is ideal in the process of becoming a physician. Blind optimism leads to poor choices and depression should things not pan out. We're not saying don't go for your dreams or that they are impossible, merely that you should be more realistic in your analysis of your situation, knowledge, and capabilities.

The premeds that I met Over the years that didn't make it were usually the blind optimist types. "I'm going to be a dermatologist." "I'm going to go to HMS." "I'm going to get a 40 on my MCAT." Kid 1 fails organic, retakes for a D, gives up. Kid 2 gives up in physics II, tiring of the constant churning out of labs while his friends are enjoying life. Kid 3 scores a 17 on their MCAT because they weren't able to function under the pressure of the exam, despite their As in every prereq and solid understanding of the material.

The ones I know that did the best were the ones who were always just a little bit unsure of themselves. The ones that put in an extra hour of studying at night because they never felt they knew things quite well enough. The ones that started off worrying if they'd even get into any med school, that worked their butts off and found they had top-tier stats at the end of the day and ended up with multiple acceptances in hand. When they'd stumble, they'd lower their expectations, and when they succeeded, they'd adjust accordingly. Idealism and optimism alone can't get you through this mess. You need a realistic eye, some serious perseverance, thick skin, and a good dose of skepticism to keep on the right track year after year.

Damn, I thought the worst of the process was over when I got done with waking up at the crack of dawn to go to those wretched 5-hour-long Organic Chemistry labs.

How very, very wrong I was.

 

[DermViser]

But when I stop listening is when you guys insist that it's not realistic and it's not possible.

So if I'm interpreting this correctly, when people who are more knowledgeable than you and more experienced than you are giving you realistic advice and bc they don't say "Peskywabbit505, shoot for the stars and reach for your dreams! You can do anything you set your mind to!" your first impulse is to stop listening?

 

[Arkangeloid]

It's realistic to say that you intend to go into medicine. But I would caution against choosing a particular specialty that early into the process.

I think it was Doran Martell who said "Men plan and the gods laugh." Keep that in mind.

 

[DermViser]

Damn, I thought the worst of the process was over when I got done with waking up at the crack of dawn to go to those wretched 5-hour-long Organic Chemistry labs.

How very, very wrong I was.

"Worst part" is highly dependent on interpretation. A lot of med school is still in your control.

 

[greenlion]

I don't think I'm putting all my eggs in one basket; I'm planning on earning a degree in biomedical engineering before I apply to med school, so that's some Plan B insurance right? I just don't want it to feel like I'm giving myself an out.

Do you notice how all the high schoolers who come on here choose "neurosurgery" to pine for by a disproportionate amount? Unlike the med students, no high-schooler talks about being an ENT surgeon or a Urologist for example. Want to know why? Because they're motivated by instrumental factors rather than internal factors - and neurosurgery is rich in layperson prestige. Fact is, you know bubkiss about medicine or surgery, much less neurosurgery without doing the rotations. Your motivation is to BE a neurosurgeon- rather than to study medicine->study neurosurgery. That's why people don't have much confidence in you: the path is long and tedious and you're exactly the kind of person that doesn't make it (because deep inside you don't really want to).

 

[carparker]

I don't think I'm putting all my eggs in one basket; I'm planning on earning a degree in biomedical engineering before I apply to med school, so that's some Plan B insurance right? I just don't want it to feel like I'm giving myself an out.

Engineering is a completely different career path. If you're that interested in being an engineer, then be an engineer. If you really believe that your calling is to be a neurosurgeon, then save yourself the loads of pain that await you getting an engineering degree.

I encourage you to shadow a biomedical engineer and a variety of physician specialties. I'm 30 and just now applying to med school after putting a lot of thought and consideration into the education process, debt, career and lifestyle. It terrifies me that in high school you think you have the next decade of your life figured out.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

Do you notice how all the high schoolers who come on here choose "neurosurgery" to pine for by a disproportionate amount? Unlike the med students, no high-schooler talks about being an ENT surgeon or a Urologist for example. Want to know why? Because they're motivated by instrumental factors rather than internal factors - and neurosurgery is rich in layperson prestige. Fact is, you know bubkiss about medicine or surgery, much less neurosurgery without doing the rotations. Your motivation is to BE a neurosurgeon- rather than to study medicine->study neurosurgery. That's why people don't have much confidence in you: the path is long and tedious and you're exactly the kind of person that doesn't make it (because deep inside you don't really want to).

I think I've already addressed this particular statement. My calling may change in the future, and I welcome it if it does! But for now that is the last hurdle on a journey I've barely begun, so there's that. And I am NOT considering this particular career for the title nor the money. Those things don't make you happy! I'm considering it because I genuinely want to help people, I'm fascinated by medicine, and I just outright want to find my purpose in life. The money and prestige aren't really a factor. So if you could enter this convo without accusing me of wanting the title, rather than the job, that'd be just peachy.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

Engineering is a completely different career path. If you're that interested in being an engineer, then be an engineer. If you really believe that your calling is to be a neurosurgeon, then save yourself the loads of pain that await you getting an engineering degree.

I encourage you to shadow a biomedical engineer and a variety of physician specialties. I'm 30 and just now applying to med school after putting a lot of thought and consideration into the education process, debt, career and lifestyle. It terrifies me that in high school you think you have the next decade of your life figured out.

That's the thing, I was under the impression the med schools were actually impressed by such a hard major, but apparently that's not the case. And I was also very eager for it because I wanted some experience with tough classes and study schedules to better prepare me for med school, if you see what I mean.

 

[Peskywabbit505]

So if I'm interpreting this correctly, when people who are more knowledgeable than you and more experienced than you are giving you realistic advice and bc they don't say "Peskywabbit505, shoot for the stars and reach for your dreams! You can do anything you set your mind to!" your first impulse is to stop listening?

Yes, that's correct. I will listen to your ancient wisdom when you tell me things like," It's too early to talk about that" or " Focus on getting into a good college first". That is EXCELLENT advice, Because it gives me a few pointers and tips I'll need to GET THERE. But when someone starts spouting," You can't" or " It'll never happen, too unrealistic", that's when I stop listening; because I don't need that ****ty naysayer mindset in any area of my life! Much less my dreams! I keep the mindset of a champion that says," Yes, you can!". I realize that the road is going to be hard and it's going to suck ass, but NO ONE is going to tell me I can't. Because that's not the mindset of a champion; that's the mindset of a loser.