How important are auditions for matching specific residency programs?

[deleted1139416]

I’m trying to get neuro auditions but I have only gotten one so far. Although it’s a great program, it’s not in an area I want to match in. So pretty much all the programs I’ll be applying to will be ones where I haven’t done an audition. How much will this impact my chances?

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[CnsCrit]

Won't impact your chances at all. I personally don't recommend audition rotations because if they don't love you it could end up hurting, even if you didn't do a bad job. The vast majority of applicants aren't doing auditions so theres little reason you should imo. They can also be costly and just generally more draining for little to no benefit in the end. You could consider if theres a specialty you really want to see thats not available at your home program, or if your home program doesn't really have neurology. It can be helpful if you really blow it out of the water and impress everyone, but too risky.

 

[deleted1139416]

Won't impact your chances at all. I personally don't recommend audition rotations because if they don't love you it could end up hurting, even if you didn't do a bad job. The vast majority of applicants aren't doing auditions so theres little reason you should imo. They can also be costly and just generally more draining for little to no benefit in the end. You could consider if theres a specialty you really want to see thats not available at your home program, or if your home program doesn't really have neurology. It can be helpful if you really blow it out of the water and impress everyone, but too risky.

Thank you for the response. I really appreciate it. I was just really worried because a lot of people are telling me that they ended up matching in places where they did an audition.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Most MD students don’t end up doing auditions for Neuro because it is not very competitive and they have 95+% chance of matching anyway and most likely at big university programs. As a DO however, you still have a good chance of matching (88-90%), but you’ll probably have to be happy with anywhere including smaller/less attractive (likely community) programs. If you take a look at this year Neuro match spreadsheet, you can see how brutal it was this year with most DO matching below their top 5. On top of that, as a DO, your school most likely don’t even require you to rotate in Neuro, so you were probably the one setting up your own Neuro rotation during MS3 at places other than a residency program. Eventually this leaves you with weaker Neuro LORs. This is why I would encourage any DO student thinking about applying Neuro to do at least 2-3 early auditions and getting at least 1 LOR from those. Even a LOR from a smaller program would help you land better interviews. In fact, my 2 auditions were at smaller and not so popular programs, and they were the lowest on my rank list because I had better opportunities from places I thought wouldn’t have looked at my app based on my stats. And guess what, my LOR from one of my auditions was mentioned in every single one of my interviews.

At the same time, an audition can also help you match at that particular program. Now that I’m on the other side, I can tell you my program ranks everyone who auditioned above anyone else, and I’m currently the only one at my program who didn’t audition. This year we matched within our top 10 auditioners (2/3 of them ranked top 3). So with that said, try your best to get at least one more audition rotation set up even if it’s not a place you would like to go (you can always rank them last if you don’t wanna go there) and you go get yourself at least one strong LOR.

 

[neuroiscool42]

Most MD students don’t end up doing auditions for Neuro because it is not very competitive and they have 95+% chance of matching anyway and most likely at big university programs. As a DO however, you still have a good chance of matching (88-90%), but you’ll probably have to be happy with anywhere including smaller/less attractive (likely community) programs. If you take a look at this year Neuro match spreadsheet, you can see how brutal it was this year with most DO matching below their top 5. On top of that, as a DO, your school most likely don’t even require you to rotate in Neuro, so you were probably the one setting up your own Neuro rotation during MS3 at places other than a residency program. Eventually this leaves you with weaker Neuro LORs. This is why I would encourage any DO student thinking about applying Neuro to do at least 2-3 early auditions and getting at least 1 LOR from those. Even a LOR from a smaller program would help you land better interviews. In fact, my 2 auditions were at smaller and not so popular programs, and they were the lowest on my rank list because I had better opportunities from places I thought wouldn’t have looked at app based on my stats. And guess what, my LOR from one of my auditions was mentioned in every single one of my interviews.

At the same time, an audition can also help you match at that particular program. Now that I’m on the other side, I can tell you my program ranks everyone who auditioned above anyone else, and I’m currently the only one at my program who didn’t audition. This year we matched within our top 10 auditioners (2/3 of them ranked top 3). So with that said, try your best to get at least one more audition rotation set up even if it’s not a place you would like to go (you can always rank them last if you don’t wanna go there) and you go get yourself at least one strong LOR.

Kinda going off of that. What can we do as an auditioner to make a strong impression? I get showing up early, work hard, take ownership of your patients. Anything less obvious now that you're a resident?

 

[CnsCrit]

Other than what you mentioned, the main thing is being likeable and able to get along with everyone. For some students it's hard to strike a balance between working hard and taking initiative vs going with the flow and being a normal human. It's easy to be anxious, overthink everything, etc. More than anything people want to know if you're reliable and good to work with. You have to be honest with yourself and ask whether you're someone who could thrive in a situation like that, where you're expected to do well in a completely new environment with new people, new EMR, and have a short amount of time to make an impression. If you're that person, go for it. Otherwise, hold off and you may be better off in the end.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Kinda going off of that. What can we do as an auditioner to make a strong impression? I get showing up early, work hard, take ownership of your patients. Anything less obvious now that you're a resident?

In my experience as a student and as a resident now, no one is expecting you to be a Neurologist. We simply aren’t expecting you to know much; You’re still a medical student and Neurology as a subject can’t get mastered in your short experience on clinicals. Instead, if you know at least the basics, get along with everyone, are able to communicate clearly and advocate for your pts, are likable and not arrogant, are eager to learn, can participate in simple clinical decision making conversations, and can be efficient and make thing easier for everyone, I think you should be Ok on any audition rotation.

 

[Catsfordays]

If you are a DO, I HIGHLY suggest doing aways. I suspect that is the reason why I matched at my number one tbh. Attendings have told me straight up that they prefer auditioners when doing ranking since they know you are not "odd." As for doing aways, really just trying your best and being a decent person will get you so far. Good luck! Neuro is the best.

 

[BlueBleck]

Most MD students don’t end up doing auditions for Neuro because it is not very competitive and they have 95+% chance of matching anyway and most likely at big university programs. As a DO however, you still have a good chance of matching (88-90%), but you’ll probably have to be happy with anywhere including smaller/less attractive (likely community) programs. If you take a look at this year Neuro match spreadsheet, you can see how brutal it was this year with most DO matching below their top 5. On top of that, as a DO, your school most likely don’t even require you to rotate in Neuro, so you were probably the one setting up your own Neuro rotation during MS3 at places other than a residency program. Eventually this leaves you with weaker Neuro LORs. This is why I would encourage any DO student thinking about applying Neuro to do at least 2-3 early auditions and getting at least 1 LOR from those. Even a LOR from a smaller program would help you land better interviews. In fact, my 2 auditions were at smaller and not so popular programs, and they were the lowest on my rank list because I had better opportunities from places I thought wouldn’t have looked at my app based on my stats. And guess what, my LOR from one of my auditions was mentioned in every single one of my interviews.

At the same time, an audition can also help you match at that particular program. Now that I’m on the other side, I can tell you my program ranks everyone who auditioned above anyone else, and I’m currently the only one at my program who didn’t audition. This year we matched within our top 10 auditioners (2/3 of them ranked top 3). So with that said, try your best to get at least one more audition rotation set up even if it’s not a place you would like to go (you can always rank them last if you don’t wanna go there) and you go get yourself at least one strong LOR.

Very solid advice. +1 to everything including better LORs and my program loving its rotators. Our rotators are guaranteed interviews. We regularly match them.

 

[deleted1139416]

Most MD students don’t end up doing auditions for Neuro because it is not very competitive and they have 95+% chance of matching anyway and most likely at big university programs. As a DO however, you still have a good chance of matching (88-90%), but you’ll probably have to be happy with anywhere including smaller/less attractive (likely community) programs. If you take a look at this year Neuro match spreadsheet, you can see how brutal it was this year with most DO matching below their top 5. On top of that, as a DO, your school most likely don’t even require you to rotate in Neuro, so you were probably the one setting up your own Neuro rotation during MS3 at places other than a residency program. Eventually this leaves you with weaker Neuro LORs. This is why I would encourage any DO student thinking about applying Neuro to do at least 2-3 early auditions and getting at least 1 LOR from those. Even a LOR from a smaller program would help you land better interviews. In fact, my 2 auditions were at smaller and not so popular programs, and they were the lowest on my rank list because I had better opportunities from places I thought wouldn’t have looked at my app based on my stats. And guess what, my LOR from one of my auditions was mentioned in every single one of my interviews.

At the same time, an audition can also help you match at that particular program. Now that I’m on the other side, I can tell you my program ranks everyone who auditioned above anyone else, and I’m currently the only one at my program who didn’t audition. This year we matched within our top 10 auditioners (2/3 of them ranked top 3). So with that said, try your best to get at least one more audition rotation set up even if it’s not a place you would like to go (you can always rank them last if you don’t wanna go there) and you go get yourself at least one strong LOR.

If you are a DO, I HIGHLY suggest doing aways. I suspect that is the reason why I matched at my number one tbh. Attendings have told me straight up that they prefer auditioners when doing ranking since they know you are not "odd." As for doing aways, really just trying your best and being a decent person will get you so far. Good luck! Neuro is the best.

Very solid advice. +1 to everything including better LORs and my program loving its rotators. Our rotators are guaranteed interviews. We regularly match them.

Does it really matter if your audition rotation is a SUBI vs. an elective? Some places offer both.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Does it really matter if your audition rotation is a SUBI vs. an elective? Some places offer both.

Not really. For the most part, as long you get to work directly with the residents and attendings, I don’t see why that would matter if it’s considered a SubI or an elective.

 

[Hank_Hill_MD]

Kinda going off of that. What can we do as an auditioner to make a strong impression? I get showing up early, work hard, take ownership of your patients. Anything less obvious now that you're a resident?

+1 for rotators generally being ranked highly at my program as well.

You'd think it would go without saying, but strong displays of teamwork and being teachable will get you far. We had one instance a couple years ago of a resident getting sick right before a scheduled morning report. The rotator volunteered (unprompted) and delivered a pretty good presentation with a little coaching up beforehand. We remembered this (among other things) when the rank meeting came around, and they ended up highly ranked/matched with us easily. This is something that doesn't really show on a paper application and definitely boosted their rank.

On the other hand, aggressive "me first" type of stuff (cutting off other rotators during presentations, calling out residents in front of attendings/patients, arguing with the attendings in front of patients - I saw all of these things from rotators this year) will likely get you at the bottom of the rank list or unranked. A surprising number of people struggle with this.