How Many Schools...?

[HCHopeful]

So, I've been recently discussing with my advisor and other professors (along with close friends, some of which have been accepted to medical school already) about how many schools I should apply to. I have a 3.91 cGPA and 3.96 sGPA (mistakenly thought it was 3.94 up until now) along with multiple MCATs: 27 (9/9/9) and 31 (12/9/10) with the 31 being most recent.

My EC's include 500+ hours of research (with a publication next Spring with the USDA), 200+ hours of non-clinical volunteering, 40 hours of clinical volunteering at the moment (hoping to have 100 at time of submitting application), 140 hours shadowing, multiple leadership positions, SMDEP at UNMC, and a few hobbies that are a bit unique (self-employed d.j. and in a band that opened for Chiddy Bang).

Also, my home state is Nebraska, so there is a very heavy IS lean from them (104/123 students are IS).

With my stats, I am simply wondering if it's worth applying to 10+ schools? My best chance in being accepted is at UNMC, so is it really necessary to spend over $2,000 to potentially not need to? I believe my interviewing skills are at least above average, as I was given a full-tuition scholarship at my college after having interviewed (three out of 100 chosen to receive this scholarship). So, I don't foresee this being a problem.

I was originally going to apply to 13 schools and not think anything of it. Now everyone I know is telling me it's not a great idea and I can save some money. Yes, I realize $2,000 doesn't sound like much, but it's still $2,000.

Any similar situations or advice is appreciated.

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[giraffesuptop]

Better safe than sorry. Apply to >10 schools.

 

[Afford]

I wouldn't risk it because all it takes is one interviewer to hate you for whatever reason he/she chooses.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

You should definitely apply to more than 13 schools. You can't just bank on your state school, even if they have a heavy instate bias. If you don't end up getting into Nebraska, then all of a sudden you only have 12 more options and that is simply not enough especially when considering your first mcat score. In my opinion you should apply to at least 15 allopathic schools and 10 osteopathic schools in order to ensure an acceptance. You don't want to cut corners, just to have to go through it all again. If you go through your application cycle and end up not getting an acceptance, you are going to absolutely be kicking yourself when you're sitting there writing all those secondaries again and thinking you would totally spend $2000 not to be in that situation. Think of it this way, it's an investment in your future. Do it right, do it once.

 

[ridethecliche]

Based purely on numbers, you have a 60-75% chance of getting in depending on how schools combine your MCAT score or view only the higher one. Up to you what you think is worth it.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf

I'd apply to atleast 15-18 MD schools in your position. I personally wouldn't apply DO with your stats.

 

[HCHopeful]

Should have mentioned I will only be applying to schools that accept my most recent, or highest MCAT score, which is why I originally planned on 10-13 schools. That's how many I found that view the MCAT in my favor.

No way I'll be applying to more than 13, because after that, many schools start averaging my scores and the odds fall.

I am also planning to apply to two DO schools, but no more.

Thanks for the quick responses everybody.

 

[LoveIR]

The cost of adding a few more schools would be significantly less than the cost of reapplying.

I would apply to 15 at minimum. Your application is solid except for the MCAT, and you'll probably get into Nebraska, but the process is random. I applied to 20 and got 8 interviews...imagine if I had only applied to the 12 that didn't give me an interview!

Good luck!

 

[HCHopeful]

Gah. I know you all are right. Just needed to hear it from other sources.

Thanks, everyone. Much appreciated.

10-15 schools it is

 

[Stagg737]

Why would it be $2,000? Let's break down the costs if your options are 5 vs. 13.

Cost of primaries:

5) $160 + $33(4) = $292

13) $160 + $33(12) = $556

Difference = $264


Cost of secondaries (we'll say 75/school)

$75(13-5) = $600

$600 + $264 = $864

That's a decent chunk of change, but look at it this way. Would you rather save $850 and risk having to apply again, or spend it and know you're pretty certain to see an acceptance somewhere? Plus if you get accepted somewhere you like, you can drop any other interviews and save the rest of your money. Based on your profile, you're a strong applicant, but that doesn't mean you're guaranteed anything. Short story time:

A guy in my fraternity, one of the smartest people I knew, graduated a year early with a 3.95 and a 32 MCAT first try. In his year off he worked in a research lab full-time and got a ton of publications (I think like 8-9). He had okay ECs undergrad, but also worked as a paramedic (yes, paramedic, not just EMT-B) during undergrad and while working in the research lab. He applied during what would have been his senior year and applied to 24 schools, very few of which were reach schools and most of which were mid to low-tier schools. Now if SDN were to judge his odds, people would probably expect him to get plenty of interviews along with a fair number of acceptances. He didn't. He got 2 interviews, one straight rejection and one waitlisted at our state school. He ended up getting off the waitlist that May, but none of the people I knew ever expected him to struggle just to get interviews.

Moral of the story: No matter how good you are, you can't take anything for granted. If I were you I'd apply to at least 10 schools plus the DO ones. Many schools will still give you a look with a 29 average MCAT, and when they see you went up 4 points, it'll help even more. If I were in your shoes, I'd apply to 15-20 schools and let the cards fall where they will.

 

[HCHopeful]

Why would it be $2,000? Let's break down the costs if your options are 5 vs. 13.

Cost of primaries:

5) $160 + $33(4) = $292

13) $160 + $33(12) = $556

Difference = $264


Cost of secondaries (we'll say 75/school)

$75(13-5) = $600

$600 + $264 = $864

That's a decent chunk of change, but look at it this way. Would you rather save $850 and risk having to apply again, or spend it and know you're pretty certain to see an acceptance somewhere? Plus if you get accepted somewhere you like, you can drop any other interviews and save the rest of your money. Based on your profile, you're a strong applicant, but that doesn't mean you're guaranteed anything. Short story time:

A guy in my fraternity, one of the smartest people I knew, graduated a year early with a 3.95 and a 32 MCAT first try. In his year off he worked in a research lab full-time and got a ton of publications (I think like 8-9). He had okay ECs undergrad, but also worked as a paramedic (yes, paramedic, not just EMT-B) during undergrad and while working in the research lab. He applied during what would have been his senior year and applied to 24 schools, very few of which were reach schools and most of which were mid to low-tier schools. Now if SDN were to judge his odds, people would probably expect him to get plenty of interviews along with a fair number of acceptances. He didn't. He got 2 interviews, one straight rejection and one waitlisted at our state school. He ended up getting off the waitlist that May, but none of the people I knew ever expected him to struggle just to get interviews.

Moral of the story: No matter how good you are, you can't take anything for granted. If I were you I'd apply to at least 10 schools plus the DO ones. Many schools will still give you a look with a 29 average MCAT, and when they see you went up 4 points, it'll help even more. If I were in your shoes, I'd apply to 15-20 schools and let the cards fall where they will.

That is a very scary story. Talk about the worst case scenario. Yikes for him. Glad to hear he got accepted eventually, though.

As far as the prices, I took $160 + $36*13 = $628. Then secondaries, which I've found to be closer to $100 than $70, $95*13 = $1,235

So $1,235 + $628 = $1,836

I'm just trying to find a happy medium between applying broadly but also realizing UNMC will be my best chance compared to anywhere else.

As far as applying to schools that average my retake, I guess I fell into the "anything below a 30 is so horrible don't even apply there" mentality that is found frequently on SDN.

Again, you bring up some solid points that I will consider thoroughly. Much appreciated.

 

[Stagg737]

That is a very scary story. Talk about the worst case scenario. Yikes for him. Glad to hear he got accepted eventually, though.

As far as the prices, I took $160 + $36*13 = $628. Then secondaries, which I've found to be closer to $100 than $70, $95*13 = $1,235

So $1,235 + $628 = $1,836

I'm just trying to find a happy medium between applying broadly but also realizing UNMC will be my best chance compared to anywhere else.

As far as applying to schools that average my retake, I guess I fell into the "anything below a 30 is so horrible don't even apply there" mentality that is found frequently on SDN.

Again, you bring up some solid points that I will consider thoroughly. Much appreciated.

It was, I've honestly never seen a situation that bad other than him, but it's just a reminder to me that it happens. I also get the happy medium thing. I had to apply 3 times for my acceptance and spent way more money than I should have, so I know where you're coming from. But think about it this way also. If you don't get in first time, not only are you going to have to pay to apply again, you'll be losing a year of your salary as a physician. An extra 2k might not be a big deal, but an extra 150-300k is.

I also get the below thirty thing, but if it make you feel better my scores were 29,28,29 (had to retake because my first score expired), and I ended up with an MD interview anyway. There are plenty of MD schools with averages at or below 30, so I'm really not sure why SDN is so harsh about sub-30 scores. Plus a 4 point improvement shows you learned something and adapted, which is definitely not a negative imo.

 

[ridethecliche]

Yeah. I think 13-18 is the optimal range, but it depends on the schools.

 

[HCHopeful]

Yeah. I think 13-18 is the optimal range, but it depends on the schools.

These schools all accept the most recent, best score, or superscore. Whatcha think?

Albany
Rosy Franklin
Drexel
Quinnipiac
Georgetown
MCW
Temple
GWU
U of Illinois
Rush
Creighton
EVMS
Oakland
UNMC
VCU

 

[bluejay456]

I was told by a friend last year and having just gone through this cycle I totally agree with this advice. If you have the ability, apply to as many schools as possible. I mean as many as possible. I know it may seem like wasting a ton of money but in the end it will be worth it. Look at it like this, this is one of the only things at this point of your premed career that can increase your chances of getting into medical school. Almost everything else at this point is set in stone.

 

[ridethecliche]

Uhh how are some of those schools for out of state folks? Like mcw.

Also there are some schools on your list that just get a metric ton of apps like Drexel and even Georgetown.

 

[HCHopeful]

Uhh how are some of those schools for out of state folks? Like mcw.

Also there are some schools on your list that just get a metric ton of apps like Drexel and even Georgetown.

All of the schools on the list either have a >50% OOS acceptance or 60+ OOS students per class.

I realize they get a ton of applications, but what are my other options? Applying to schools with higher stats and hoping I get an interview there? I don't see how that would be any better, personally. I've already counted out many of the schools like Stritch, NYMC, Wake Forest, Tufts, and U of Miami, because they don't view my MCAT retake as favorably as the ones I've listed.

 

[Stagg737]

I'd ask winged scapula or some of the other higher-ups here to take a look at your list to see what other schools you should add. Agree that GWU, Drexel, and Georgetown are a reach for anyone simply because of the numbers. Add your 2-3 DO schools and I think you would probably be fine, but you never really know until you dive in.

 

[ridethecliche]

I interviewed at Miami with a retake.

I doubt nymc will care.

 

[Wolfe8]

All of the schools on the list either have a >50% OOS acceptance or 60+ OOS students per class.

I realize they get a ton of applications, but what are my other options? Applying to schools with higher stats and hoping I get an interview there? I don't see how that would be any better, personally. I've already counted out many of the schools like Stritch, NYMC, Wake Forest, Tufts, and U of Miami, because they don't view my MCAT retake as favorably as the ones I've listed.

Where/how did you find this info on which medical schools prioritize the most recect MCAT? I'm in a similar situation with a big disparity between my original MCAT score and the retake.

 

[Willy38]

You're about to take out 200-300k in loans. 2k more is a drop in the bucket and if you don't get in bc you didn't apply to enough schools you are giving up a year of physician salary (~250k) via opportunity cost. If you have the means to do so, apply broadly. I understand trying to be frugal but this is not the time IMO. Best of luck with your cycle though !

 

[HCHopeful]

Where/how did you find this info on which medical schools prioritize the most recect MCAT? I'm in a similar situation with a big disparity between my original MCAT score and the retake.

Websites/e-mailing the schools!

 

[caffeinemia]

You're about to take out 200-300k in loans. 2k more is a drop in the bucket and if you don't get in bc you didn't apply to enough schools you are giving up a year of physician salary (~250k) via opportunity cost. If you have the means to do so, apply broadly. I understand trying to be frugal but this is not the time IMO. Best of luck with your cycle though !

This man or woman or non-identifying individual has wisdom. I applied over 5 years ago, and did 22. I thought that was not enough and my scores and educational pedigree were pretty much a fo-sho for a lot of places. Places like Stanford, where I interviewed and met the most disagreeable, racist old surgi-bro ever. I walked out of that one knowing it was not going to happen. So you know, **** happens and it's hard to plan. Apply broadly.

 

[Goro]

Let's put it this: you interview at UNE and bomb it.
Then what will you do?


I strongly advise you to apply strategically, and smartly.

So, I've been recently discussing with my advisor and other professors (along with close friends, some of which have been accepted to medical school already) about how many schools I should apply to. I have a 3.91 cGPA and 3.96 sGPA (mistakenly thought it was 3.94 up until now) along with multiple MCATs: 27 (9/9/9) and 31 (12/9/10) with the 31 being most recent.

My EC's include 500+ hours of research (with a publication next Spring with the USDA), 200+ hours of non-clinical volunteering, 40 hours of clinical volunteering at the moment (hoping to have 100 at time of submitting application), 140 hours shadowing, multiple leadership positions, SMDEP at UNMC, and a few hobbies that are a bit unique (self-employed d.j. and in a band that opened for Chiddy Bang).

Also, my home state is Nebraska, so there is a very heavy IS lean from them (104/123 students are IS).

With my stats, I am simply wondering if it's worth applying to 10+ schools? My best chance in being accepted is at UNMC, so is it really necessary to spend over $2,000 to potentially not need to? I believe my interviewing skills are at least above average, as I was given a full-tuition scholarship at my college after having interviewed (three out of 100 chosen to receive this scholarship). So, I don't foresee this being a problem.

I was originally going to apply to 13 schools and not think anything of it. Now everyone I know is telling me it's not a great idea and I can save some money. Yes, I realize $2,000 doesn't sound like much, but it's still $2,000.

Any similar situations or advice is appreciated.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

All of the schools on the list either have a >50% OOS acceptance or 60+ OOS students per class.

I realize they get a ton of applications, but what are my other options? Applying to schools with higher stats and hoping I get an interview there? I don't see how that would be any better, personally. I've already counted out many of the schools like Stritch, NYMC, Wake Forest, Tufts, and U of Miami, because they don't view my MCAT retake as favorably as the ones I've listed.

I would apply to both The U and Wake over Drexel and Georgetown. Drexel has been awful this year with going through applications and getting back to students, which isn't their fault because they see 12,000+ applications a year. Wake and Miami also see a ton of apps but not near as much as Drexel and Georgetown. Also, one of my best friends got into Wake with 30 MCAT and 3.6gpa from OOS with no ties so your definitely not out of the game stats wise.

 

[HCHopeful]

Thank you for the advice, everybody.

I have decided that I will expand my range to 15 schools, now including schools those that may not only take my most recent MCAT, but average or something of the sort. Hopefully this will increase my odds a bit.

Also, as far as DO goes, I will be applying to Des Moines and ATSU-Kirksville, as they are around my area geographically. I also have a cousin who attended Des Moines and he loved it there, so I think it would be a good fit.

Appreciate you all taking the time! Now back to writing (and re-writing) my personal statement and volunteering!

 

[Mad Jack]

I'd go with 20+ myself. The thing is, if you happen to not get accepted, you will be a reapplicant from then on forward, and you'll lose a year of your life. It's worth dropping the extra thousand dollars than risk losing a year of practice and making the whole process potentially harder for yourself next time around. View that extra money you spend not as a waste, but as an insurance policy.

 

[HCHopeful]

I'd go with 20+ myself. The thing is, if you happen to not get accepted, you will be a reapplicant from then on forward, and you'll lose a year of your life. It's worth dropping the extra thousand dollars than risk losing a year of practice and making the whole process potentially harder for yourself next time around. View that extra money you spend not as a waste, but as an insurance policy.

I guess I just have a hard time justifying 20+ schools, because I'm either not in their range or the schools don't accept many OOS.

I'm also not one to apply to reach schools, because that feels like a complete waste of money. Especially when considering I do not care at all how prestigious my school is.

 

[Mad Jack]

I guess I just have a hard time justifying 20+ schools, because I'm either not in their range or the schools don't accept many OOS.

I'm also not one to apply to reach schools, because that feels like a complete waste of money. Especially when considering I do not care at all how prestigious my school is.

Just apply to some low-to-mid tier private schools that don't have strong in-state preferences. It's better to risk going to school far away or for a bit more money than you'd like than to risk losing a year of practice entirely. That can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars, not to mention the difficulty of being admitted as a reapplicant.