Yep. All things to consider when it comes to partner income, cost of living by location, kids, etc. debt and opportunity cost are major factors but not usually what students think about when they are signing up for a program.
True, but these are *very* competitive positions. Many/most students incorrectly assume they will be the outlier, but most aren't.
88k is pretty low when you consider the years of schooling and training that takes to get to that point. Also factor in the difficulty of our job and the cognitive abilities required coupled with the responsibility that we have to our patients and I would say that it is a very low number. There has been ten to fifteen years of stagnant wages for psychologist and as I am trying to pay off my loans, save for retirement, and provide for my family, I take this issue very seriously.
Compared to these other professions, many in psychology seem to act as though we shouldn't ask for more money. There was a thread awhile back where many were intimating that anything more than 80k was being greedy. I was frankly quite astounded by this thinking. Meanwhile when I am reading on the psychiatrists thread, they talk about how to maximize their earnings all day long with no reservations whatsoever. I know that mindfulness is popular in our field these days and we have good evidence to support it's efficacy, but that doesn't mean we have to become monks.
Fear makes us make many mistakes, including stuff like this imo. You see a really good opportunity, so you tell yourself that if you demand anything you'd lose the opportunity, so you just take what you get.
Problem is mentors often have academic affiliations as their primary source of income, and may not have the best sense of salaries and pay structures in applied settings. I was fortunate to have a practicum supervisor who initiated conversations on the topic of salary.
Agreed.
I would never say that you would starve on 80k so I am sure that wasn't me. I think of 80k as the place to start as a psychologist and it is what I accepted for my first job as a licensed psychologist.
My thoughts exactly. Tony is s great guy who has dedicated decades of effort to helping our profession.
Internship doesn't count!! I would've- literally- had to have been 7 years old for my formula to apply.Geez, did you start internship at age nine??
most postdocs probably wouldn't work out either...
Completely agree. A good psychologist should always be looking at and talking about outcome measures. We should be bringing that concept to the organizations where we work and spearheading the implementation of the measures. I also think that a combination of quantitative and qualitative measures are helpful. The fact is we did this more when I was working in sales than we do in most mental health settings that I have worked. Granted, a lot of this was because psychologists tended to be in peripheral roles at many places. I have been surprised at how little our talents seem to be used outside of the VA system and in academia to be quite honest.
I hit my number about 1 year after graduation. I didn't do a formal post-doc, but rather took a position that didn't require licensure but still gave me supervision for licensure. I realized quickly that I was underpaid (due in large part to my cluelessness in giving my salary needs when I was initially hired). I renegotiated after about 10 months. It was my first real salary negotiation, and it felt strange leading up to it. I was worried about seeming ungrateful. When I asked for an objectively fair and competitive salary, my boss said "of course- that's fair and what your worth, and we want to keep you." I had done research, interviewed elsewhere, and had a place to go if it didn't work out. I was careful to not present it as an ultimatum ("pay me more or I'm gone!"), but was ready to leave she couldn't come close.
I agree with most of what you say but I think that it does point to a problem in our thinking of the field as being either one or the other. I see no problem with both models and I don't see how an outcome measure is antithetical to the concept of client centered therapy. If I remember correctly, Rogers did conduct studies of his treatments using some types of outcome measures. Some of his constructs are difficult to measure but a lot of work on relational factors continues. I actually think the problem has more to do with certain clinicians from the "I hate research" crowd whose clients aren't getting better hiding behind the "I'm using a client centered approach so it doesn't matter if my client is not improving their functioning in any measurable way". I hear this about using the client centered approach from most of the online masters level folk who don't know what they are doing either. To be honest, I don't see it as much in psychologists but when I do, it does make my blood boil.
